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00:00 Joining us now to discuss, CNN political commentator,
00:02 Democratic strategist, Paul Begala,
00:03 and former Republican Congressman, Joe Walsh.
00:05 He's also the host of the podcast, White Flag.
00:08 Joe, let's start with you.
00:09 You just heard Trump, I mean, threatening payback.
00:11 He's been doing this since, I mean,
00:13 24 hours after the arraignment,
00:14 when he said, "If you come after me, I'm coming after you."
00:17 And then he goes after Smith,
00:18 he's going after Bill Barr,
00:19 who could be a potential witness.
00:21 Is this, in essence, witness intimidation,
00:24 trying to intimidate the people
00:25 who are involved in the case,
00:26 the special counsel, the judge, and so on?
00:28 - I don't know, I'm not a lawyer.
00:30 Legally, Jim, I don't know.
00:31 All I know is this is manna for his base.
00:35 This entire indictment has fueled his,
00:38 I think he's a lock for the nomination,
00:41 but his base politically loves it when he does this.
00:44 - But why aren't more Republicans speaking out?
00:46 The rivals, they seem to be tiptoeing
00:48 around going after Trump.
00:50 And you know this, 'cause you ran for Congress.
00:52 If you ran against somebody for your party's nomination,
00:55 and that person was indicted, you would pounce.
00:57 And it just isn't happening.
00:58 - When you asked Asa Hutchinson that question,
01:00 he didn't answer you.
01:01 The truth is, because if you go after Trump, you can't win.
01:05 Asa Hutchinson's a good man, Will Hurd's a good man,
01:08 Chris Christie, those three who are attacking Trump
01:11 have zero shot at the nomination.
01:14 The only lane in this party is to try to hug Trump
01:18 and hope that he can't run.
01:19 - Yeah, and Paul, I mean, Trump also has a few choice words
01:23 for his former vice president.
01:24 He posted on his Truth Social account
01:26 about Mike Pence saying he was about to be ousted
01:29 as governor of Indiana until Trump picked him
01:31 to be his running mate.
01:32 He called Pence delusional and a bunch of other stuff.
01:36 You can see it on your screen there.
01:37 I won't read it all.
01:38 But I mean, Pence potentially could be
01:41 one of the star witnesses in this trial.
01:43 Again, isn't this witness intimidation?
01:45 Doesn't the judge have to warn Trump and say, "Knock it off"?
01:49 - The lawyer wants to protect the First Amendment.
01:51 Okay, it's the most important thing.
01:52 And I hope this judge has a very, very wide strike zone
01:56 to, Donald Trump is running for president.
01:58 Mike Pence is running against him.
02:00 He should have a perfect right to criticize Pence.
02:03 This, to me, doesn't cross the line
02:05 the way the veiled threat does.
02:07 I'm coming after you.
02:08 That's different from just saying,
02:10 "Oh, Pence was a failed politician and I gave him an,"
02:12 you know, like, I'm okay with that.
02:14 But there's an old saying, Zell Miller,
02:16 one of my mentors in this business,
02:17 the late former Georgia governor,
02:18 used to say, "A hit dog will holler."
02:21 And so when Trump is yelling at somebody,
02:23 it's 'cause he's afraid of him.
02:24 He's never criticized Pence before,
02:26 'cause Pence is like 2%.
02:27 So why is he all of a sudden afraid of Mike Pence?
02:29 I think because, as now we know Trump said,
02:32 he's just too honest.
02:34 Pence is gonna get in that trial,
02:35 he's gonna put his hand on a Bible.
02:36 For Mike Pence, it won't be the first time.
02:39 I think the only two times Trump ever touched the Bible
02:40 is when he was sworn in.
02:42 But Pence is gonna tell the truth.
02:44 And I think that's what has Trump so scared,
02:45 and that's why he's attacking him on his social media.
02:48 - And Jim, that's a really important point.
02:49 That tweet of his, "If you come after me,
02:51 "I'm coming after you,"
02:52 that's a direct call to violence.
02:56 And that's Trump saying the next 15 months,
02:59 signaling to his supporters to get violent, and they will.
03:03 - Keep in mind, after the search of Mar-a-Lago,
03:06 a deranged man on the fringes of the far right,
03:09 perhaps inspired by Mr. Trump or other figures,
03:12 attacked the FBI office in Cincinnati.
03:16 And wound up losing his life,
03:17 'cause he was trying to murder FBI agents.
03:19 He was so upset about the raid on Mar-a-Lago.
03:21 So it's only, but I did the math.
03:23 If only .001% of Trump's supporters,
03:27 one one-thousandth of a percent,
03:29 that's still 74,000 people.
03:31 That's a sellout in an NFL game.
03:32 So he needs to be really careful about inspiring violence.
03:37 And I fear that he's desirous of it,
03:40 not careful about it, right?
03:41 - Completely, as he was, again, on January 6th.
03:44 We've talked.
03:45 He wanted that violence.
03:47 - There will be one, you're right.
03:48 - Careful, he's desirous.
03:49 Paul's right, he wants this.
03:51 - Yeah, and speaking of Pence,
03:52 here's how he responded on CNN's State of the Union
03:55 earlier today when he was asked about
03:57 if he would testify in the trial.
03:58 Let's listen.
03:59 - I have no plans to testify,
04:03 but look, we'll always comply with the law.
04:07 But look, I wanna tell you,
04:10 I don't know what the path of this indictment will be.
04:14 The president's entitled to a presumption of innocence.
04:17 He's entitled to make his defense in court.
04:19 There actually are profound issues around this
04:23 pertaining to the First Amendment,
04:24 freedom of speech, and the rest.
04:26 I'm confident he and his lawyers
04:28 will litigate all of those things.
04:29 - Yeah, Paul, I mean, I just don't see,
04:33 there's such a hesitancy there.
04:35 And Mike Pence has slowly started to be more critical
04:38 of the former president, his former boss.
04:39 But there's such a hesitancy.
04:41 And I guess, as I was saying to Joe earlier,
04:42 I don't understand why these Republican rivals
04:46 aren't going after Trump.
04:47 He's got three indictments.
04:49 I mean, shouldn't that be--
04:50 - I think Joe's right that,
04:52 it's your part, you know,
04:53 and you talk to them on the radio every day of the podcast.
04:55 - You've been involved in campaigns.
04:57 - I think a lot of the Trump base
04:58 thinks that these are unjust prosecutions.
05:00 Thereby attacking him for those
05:01 sounds like you're siding with the other side, right?
05:03 But there's another way.
05:05 And here's free political consulting.
05:07 These cost people a lot of money.
05:09 Get off of Trump and get onto the voters.
05:11 I would say, look, Trump is who he is.
05:15 But I can tell you one thing he's focused on,
05:16 staying out of jail.
05:18 You know what I'm focused on?
05:19 Keeping you on the job.
05:20 I'm focused on your life.
05:22 He's focused on his.
05:23 So rather than litigate the charges against him,
05:26 which is gonna make a lot of Republicans
05:27 feel like you're unfair,
05:30 why not fight for the voters and say,
05:33 look, the problem with this,
05:34 the problem with Trump is he's like the Pavarotti
05:37 warming up before the opera.
05:38 It's just me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.
05:40 And I'm gonna be about you, you, you, you.
05:42 Your job, your healthcare, your kids,
05:44 your future.
05:45 I think there's a message there.
05:46 Christie got close to it at the CNN town hall meeting.
05:49 I thought he was the closest I've seen to that.
05:50 But I think there is a real opportunity
05:53 for somebody to talk about the voters
05:56 instead of Mr. Trump.
05:57 - Jim, there's no anti-Trump lane in this party.
06:01 If you're gonna do it,
06:02 you have to do what Paul just suggested.
06:05 But I think it's too late.
06:06 I think this guy's hold over the voters of this party
06:10 is already set.
06:12 - Yeah, and I was talking to a Des Moines bureau chief
06:15 for an Iowa paper in Sierra Rapids,
06:17 and he was essentially describing it as a situation
06:19 where Trump is almost like the incumbent
06:21 running in this field right now,
06:23 even though he's obviously not.
06:25 Let me ask both of you about this.
06:26 Trump's attorney is saying he can't get a free trial.
06:28 Trump can't get a free trial in Washington, DC.
06:31 Let's listen to this.
06:32 - We would like a diverse venue, a diverse jury.
06:37 - Do you have any expectation that will be granted?
06:41 - I think that's a good question.
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