• 2 years ago
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Fun
Transcript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 What film or series lit your fuse
00:13 and made you have to tell stories on screen?
00:16 - So I have two answers.
00:20 I have one's a film, one's a series.
00:22 The film is "The Wiz" and it is literally the first memory
00:26 that I have of watching any movie.
00:29 There's a lot of debate about, is "The Wiz" a great movie?
00:32 Is it just beloved?
00:33 What is it?
00:34 But you have to understand the impact of seeing
00:36 an all black fantasy world that sounded like
00:41 Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson music
00:43 on a very small child was really intense.
00:45 And the older I get, the more I realize
00:48 how formative that experience was.
00:51 Like when I finally saw "The Wizard of Oz",
00:52 like I had seen "The Wiz" first.
00:54 So I didn't understand that this was a black,
00:57 a black centric cinematic universe
00:59 was something that was a given for me
01:00 as a very small child.
01:02 And I just remembered being amazed by it
01:05 and watching it over and over again as a kid.
01:08 And then as I grew up, I didn't really have language
01:11 for what I was so excited by,
01:12 but I knew that when I came home from a movie theater,
01:15 nothing made me feel that way.
01:18 And I wasn't very good at drawing,
01:20 but I was always trying to like visually tell stories
01:23 to try to like tap into that energy
01:25 that I felt in the movie theater.
01:27 And one day I'm watching the X-Men cartoon series,
01:31 which was incredibly formative for me as a child.
01:34 And it's the first time I really watched the credits.
01:36 And I remember seeing those first credits,
01:38 executive producer, director.
01:40 And I was like, it's one of those.
01:42 I think it's one of those that I wanna be.
01:44 I grew up in a family with no connection to the arts.
01:47 We had no like people in Hollywood.
01:50 I literally didn't even know there was a job title
01:52 for what I wanted to do.
01:55 But once I saw that there was a word for it, director,
01:58 nothing, like there was nothing else
02:01 I was interested in doing than that, than becoming one.
02:05 - As I recall, you crowdfunded Dear White People
02:11 and won a breakthrough grand jury prize,
02:14 breakthrough artist in 2014.
02:17 When you were making your way up as a filmmaker,
02:22 what movie or series did you watch that was so good
02:26 it made you think, wow, can I play in this sandbox?
02:30 Can I rise to this level?
02:32 - It's 2001.
02:34 It's a movie I hated growing up 'cause I didn't get it.
02:38 I didn't get the hoopla for it.
02:39 And in college, I've watched it six or seven times
02:43 'cause it's the movie that you're supposed to love.
02:45 And then in college, I took this philosophy class.
02:48 We talked about all of these different,
02:51 basically the evolution of philosophical thought
02:54 and meaning and existentialism and all that stuff.
02:56 And really without preparing us for it,
02:58 the teacher, the professor put on 2001, A Space Odyssey.
03:01 And I finally understood so many things
03:03 that Kubrick was trying to discover, explore in that film,
03:08 but he was doing so really without dialogue
03:11 or with as little dialogue as possible.
03:14 And I realized this is pure cinema.
03:17 And I had a religious experience watching that film.
03:20 I mean, I really did.
03:21 I felt like, I can't really put it into words,
03:25 but it just clicked.
03:26 I connected in a moment with that movie.
03:29 And I watch it all the time
03:31 just to remember what's possible.
03:32 I don't know how a movie like that gets made today,
03:34 by the way, but it's my gold standard for sure.
03:37 It operates in ways that absolutely you're not allowed
03:41 to do in Hollywood or at that budget level.
03:44 I think the most specific the dialogue gets
03:49 is people talking about like sandwiches or something,
03:51 but it tells you really what cinema can do
03:55 and how cinema can create an unconscious,
03:58 subconscious spiritual experience in the audience.
04:00 And it always reminds me of the power of movies.
04:03 So I don't know if I'll ever get to make my 2001 or not,
04:06 but that's the one I watched to remember what's possible.
04:09 - Was there a specific moment or sequence in 2001
04:13 that just hit you hardest
04:15 and just left the most indelible impression on you
04:20 as to what cinema could do?
04:23 - It's the Stargate sequence, of course.
04:24 It's when he has defeated Hal,
04:27 both with compassion and with force of will.
04:33 Nobody else in the movie has figured out how to do it.
04:37 It's like, you're either like a violent monster in the movie
04:39 or you're so calm and relaxed that like,
04:42 you're not a, you're almost like a robot yourself.
04:44 And Dave Poole figures out how to do both at the same time.
04:47 And then he's sort of adrift in space
04:49 and you see all the celestial bodies lining up
04:52 and then you go into the Stargate.
04:54 And you can't understand that moment in the film
04:58 really intellectually.
04:59 And it was kind of the first time it dawned on me
05:01 that the most powerful experiences in cinema
05:03 aren't ones that you can actually put into words.
05:06 And it takes the whole movie for that
05:09 to mean anything to you, that sequence.
05:11 So it's cumulative.
05:13 It's a lot of things that build up to that moment,
05:15 but him sort of, yeah, going into the Stargate
05:18 and ending up in that weird, is it a museum?
05:21 Is it a, where he sort of ages to death.
05:23 That is, well, that's like in my bones
05:27 how great that moment is.
05:29 - So now, whether it was the success of your own work
05:36 or approval from someone whose opinion really mattered
05:39 to you, what first gave you the confidence
05:42 that you did belong?
05:44 - My first movie, "Dear White People,"
05:49 there's a lot of cinematic quotes in that movie.
05:51 I'm visually quoting a lot of different filmmakers.
05:54 And of course, one of the ones that was frankly still alive
05:59 and let me know that I could be an artist
06:02 and tell black stories, of course, is Spike Lee.
06:05 And there was a moment when he invited me
06:09 to talk with one of his class at NYC.
06:14 And he played my movie for the class.
06:16 And it was really, he sat next to me and laughed at the movie
06:20 and was like, "Oh, is that you quoting 'Do the Right Thing'?"
06:22 I'm like, "Yeah, it is."
06:23 He's like, "Oh my God."
06:24 It was like a really like, "Ah, this is my hero."
06:28 And he's not only just accepting me,
06:29 but he's putting my work in front of his students.
06:32 That was a pretty big, big edifying moment for me.
06:38 I mean, Spike is sort of like one of the few heroes
06:41 that not only did it, but did it at such a big level
06:46 that's still here.
06:47 That was a big one.
06:48 - What would you say was the biggest obstacle
06:52 that you had to overcome to allow you to turn these projects
06:56 that influenced you into your own language as a filmmaker?
07:00 - I think that people call it imposter syndrome.
07:05 I don't know if it's just that,
07:06 but I'm a person of difference.
07:08 I'm gay and I'm black,
07:09 and I'm in a very white, hetero-normative industry
07:13 that has a veneer of liberalism.
07:16 And so remembering that you belong in the room
07:20 and that you are a voice of authority
07:22 and that your opinion is what got you here,
07:24 and that's what they're paying you to give,
07:27 and not sort of just doing what you're maybe,
07:31 my nervous system tells me to do,
07:33 to just survive the moment,
07:35 but to find a way to be myself in the moment.
07:38 I mean, that's probably like a lifelong journey,
07:39 but that's the big one for me.
07:41 Taking up space maybe is the better way to put it.
07:43 Like, how do I take up space in these places
07:46 that nobody looks like me?
07:48 And everyone kind of maybe has an idea of what I am
07:53 before I walk in the room, before I can speak for myself.
07:56 Overcoming that and shyness around that, I think,
07:58 is, that's been a big one.
08:00 I think it's what makes any artist kind of come alive.
08:04 And the thing about me, though, is it's sort of like,
08:06 it's all, I walk in the room, you're like,
08:07 "Okay, this guy's got something different."
08:09 (laughs)
08:11 It sort of precedes me a little bit.
08:13 But I don't know that I would have it any other way.
08:18 - Well, you know, I have three kids
08:19 and we've been on the Haunted Mansion ride in Orlando.
08:24 I can't even tell you how many times.
08:26 We loved it. - Yeah.
08:27 - We loved that attraction.
08:29 How did that attraction grab you
08:31 and what burned in you to turn this into a narrative film?
08:36 - It was the script that Katie Dippel wrote,
08:39 without a doubt, because I love the ride, too.
08:42 My mom took me to Disney World when I was a kid.
08:44 I toured Disney World as a kid,
08:46 part of something called a show choir,
08:48 the Longfellow Elementary Show Choir.
08:50 I worked at Disneyland during film school.
08:54 So I was already obsessed beyond belief with that ride.
08:57 And also just the cinema of Disneyland and Disney World.
09:01 It's cinema.
09:02 You're walking through cinema.
09:03 You're walking through production
09:04 and costume design and lighting, period.
09:06 That's why it's so effective in acting and performances.
09:09 And so I was already obsessed.
09:12 But I didn't, you know,
09:13 it's tricky to turn something like that into a movie
09:17 that also, you know, checks all the boxes,
09:20 all the quadrants, everyone's having fun,
09:21 there's set pieces, da-da-da.
09:22 But it's also a great movie.
09:24 That's a hard thing to do.
09:25 And when I got the script, I was like,
09:27 "Oh, Katie Dippold already did that."
09:28 (laughs)
09:30 And I know how to tell that story
09:31 because what she did is she created an ensemble comedy
09:35 with like these genre flourishes.
09:38 But at the end of the day, it's a real story.
09:40 It's a real movie about a character moving through grief
09:43 and particularly a character that's very sarcastic
09:46 and what I would call shady,
09:49 which is kind of how I move through the world.
09:50 I have a very like kind of dry look on things
09:54 and way of talking about things.
09:55 I just really related to the guy at the center of her movie
09:58 and I felt very protective of it, to be honest with you.
10:02 She really did so much of the heavy lifting
10:04 of figuring out a way to get inside the mansion
10:06 that everyone can sort of get on a journey,
10:10 that deep hardcore fans could get in,
10:12 but also people who maybe saw the Eddie Murphy version
10:15 of the movie or never saw any version of this movie
10:17 like would also like enjoy.
10:19 I just felt like she did that
10:20 and I wanted to protect that as best I could,
10:23 in the crucible of a studio experience.
10:26 - On the one hand, it's always good to have a brand
10:30 to lean on because people are gonna be curious
10:33 to see what the movie is like,
10:35 but at the same time, it can also be high bar,
10:39 because people may have their own expectations.
10:42 Is there something that you carried away
10:45 from the attraction that you wanted to make sure
10:48 was in this movie?
10:49 - There was a lot of things.
10:52 I think philosophically was the place I always start.
10:56 And the thing about that ride,
10:58 why it's continues to be so effective,
11:00 even as I've become an adult,
11:02 is that it's a practical effects sort of display.
11:07 It is literally smoke and mirrors,
11:11 like Pepper's ghost effect smoke and mirrors,
11:14 like 1800 style, what some might call chintzy effects.
11:19 That is its charm.
11:21 And not knowing how they pulled the trick off,
11:25 but knowing that they pulled the trick off,
11:26 but you can't just say, oh, it was just a screen,
11:28 or it was just digital.
11:30 That was a philosophy that I carried into the film
11:33 that was really important to me.
11:34 And the way that shook out is we had to build the mansion.
11:37 We had to build our interiors.
11:39 There had to be a giant connected mansion set
11:43 for everybody to walk around,
11:44 because I didn't want people walking around
11:46 a bunch of CGI sets.
11:48 I wanted practical elements
11:50 for all of the special effects.
11:51 I wanted my ghost to be there in makeup,
11:54 interacting with the cast.
11:55 I wanted to hang people from wires
11:57 and do all those tricks, those in-camera tricks
11:59 that of course we're gonna sweeten
12:01 and we're gonna bring into the modern era.
12:04 But there's gotta be a sense that it's there,
12:06 but it's not for you to kind of sink into the reality
12:09 of something so kooky as the Haunted Mansion.
12:12 I'm very proud of that,
12:16 'cause that was a big part of it for me.
12:18 And then the other thing was,
12:19 that wasn't really in the,
12:22 you know it's in New Orleans.
12:24 It literally is situated in New Orleans Square.
12:26 But other than that, you couldn't,
12:29 my family is from Louisiana.
12:31 New Orleans is a very black city.
12:34 And I'm obsessed with it as an artist
12:36 because jazz came from New Orleans
12:38 and everything comes from jazz.
12:40 And I have a cousin that collects art
12:44 from the sort of black Creole upper class
12:48 that had to leave New Orleans,
12:49 you know, when segregation took hold.
12:52 And I was like, I wanna bring the blackness
12:56 of all of that to it, because if you do that right,
13:00 you get this wonderful blend of spooky and funny
13:03 and grief and joy and all the things
13:06 that kind of the ride is giving already,
13:08 but could really connect authentically
13:11 to the culture there.
13:12 Those were the big pillars of my pitch,
13:14 honestly, to Disney is I want this to feel
13:16 like it really exists in a place in time
13:18 so that we can take, you know,
13:20 an audience on a really wild journey
13:22 and have it be rooted in something.
13:23 (upbeat music)

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