• l’année dernière
Dominique Garcia est directeur de l’INRAP, l’Institut National de Recherches Archéologiques Préventives, il est l’auteur de près de 150 publications et d’une vingtaine d’ouvrages notamment "Les Gaulois à l’œil nu", reprenant avec des illustrations les connaissances actuelles que nous avons sur les Gaulois. Les Gaulois justement, qui étaient-ils ? En quoi sont-ils différents des Celtes ? Où habitaient-ils, quelle était leur organisation sociale et partageaient-ils une langue et une culture commune ? Quelles étaient leurs relations avec les Grecs et les Romains ? Enfin, comment l’image des Gaulois a- t-elle évoluée à travers les siècles ? À travers le champ d’expertise de Dominique, on va débroussailler ensemble les clichés autour des Gaulois !

Sommaire :

00:00:00 : Introduction
00:02:24 : C'est quoi, un Gaulois ?
00:10:11 : Les Gaulois s'étendent sur quel espace géographique ?
00:14:08 : Qu'avaient en commun les différentes tribus gauloises ?
00:19:30 : Quelles étaient les relations entre les Gaulois et les autres civilisations ?
00:38:25 : Les mercenaires gaulois
00:44:19 : La remise en cause du terme "gallo-romain"
00:48:16 : Pourquoi les Gaulois font partie de notre identité ?
00:58:56 : L'héritage populaire vs l'héritage aristocratique
01:07:12 : Astérix et Obélix… Pas si cliché ?
01:08:23 : L'appropriation des Gaulois dans le discours politique actuel
01:11:54 : L'apport de l'archéologie dans la connaissance des gaulois
01:18:27 : Les chantiers archéologiques actuels
01:26:11 : Les journées européennes de l'archéologie
01:30:32 : Comment participer aux journées de fouille ?
01:32:12 : L'intérêt des reconstitutions
01:37:26 : Team Éduens ou Team Arvernes ?
01:38:03 : L'héritage sociétaux des Gaulois ?
01:40:52 : La place de la femme chez les gaulois
01:46:40 : À quoi ressemblaient les chaussures gauloises ?
01:48:51 : 3 millions de morts pendant les guerres gallo-romaines ?
01:51:09 : Ressources bibliographiques
01:54:31 : Conclusion

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Transcription
00:00:00 My dear comrades, good morning, I hope you had a good week.
00:00:07 Tonight we have the chance to receive a great guest, Dominique Garcec,
00:00:13 he is a doctor in archaeology, professor of archaeology at the National Institute of Antiquity
00:00:19 and European Proto-History of the University of Ex-Marseille, I will manage to say,
00:00:23 president of the INRAP, National Institute of Preventive Archaeological Research,
00:00:27 specialist of European Proto-History and the pre-Roman Gallic period,
00:00:32 which allowed him to conduct researches all around the Mediterranean, from Greece to Syria,
00:00:37 Italy and on a lot of research sites in France.
00:00:41 More than 150 articles published, about 20 books,
00:00:45 especially recently "The Gauls with the naked eye", which I have just dedicated,
00:00:50 don't be jealous, taking up with a lot of illustrations
00:00:54 the latest knowledge we have on the Gauls, my dear Dominique, good evening.
00:01:00 Good evening, Douta Bené, thank you very much for this invitation.
00:01:04 How are you?
00:01:05 It's good, we are starting the European days of archaeology,
00:01:09 so we are a little bit on the verge at INRAP,
00:01:13 and then all on the archaeological sites to present the discoveries,
00:01:18 those of INRAP, those of our partners.
00:01:21 In the end, for three days, it's the meeting of the French with their archaeological heritage,
00:01:26 so we archaeologists take the opportunity to share,
00:01:29 and then all the amateurs to visit the sites, see the backstage of archaeology,
00:01:34 and then maybe listen to us a little tonight.
00:01:37 Yes, yes, yes, because for those who have not seen it,
00:01:40 we made an episode in partnership with INRAP on magic, black magic, white magic in antiquity,
00:01:47 which is available on YouTube, you can go and see it, we are very happy with this episode.
00:01:55 So Dominique, if we meet tonight, it's to talk about the Gauls,
00:01:59 and try to demystify a little bit all that, who are the Gauls, where do they come from,
00:02:04 how do we perceive them today, are the Gauls really our ancestors?
00:02:08 And then what can archaeology bring, finally, as knowledge on these Gauls?
00:02:15 Did it allow us to change, perhaps, the look we had on the Gauls?
00:02:20 So many questions that we will try to answer tonight.
00:02:24 Dominique, it's time for the truth, tell us everything, what is a Gaul?
00:02:30 So the Gaul, first, may be specified, because we sometimes forget it,
00:02:35 that Gaul is a Gaulish word, that's it, it's stupid to say, but you have to remember it.
00:02:41 In Gaul, in particular, Jacques Lacroix, the linguist, remembered that in Gaul there was a root "gal",
00:02:49 which means valiant, strong, valiant.
00:02:53 And so are men, when they are given the choice, they tend to find a name that values them.
00:03:00 And so there is a Celtic people who said to themselves, we will call ourselves the valiant, the strong, the valiant.
00:03:08 So that's a reality that we can point to thanks to linguistics.
00:03:13 And then how did we get from this people who called themselves the valiant to us today,
00:03:20 the France we say that the ancestors are the Gauls?
00:03:24 This is perhaps what we can try to discuss tonight.
00:03:28 The start, perhaps, with this term of Gaul, how did it spread and how did it get to us?
00:03:36 So how did it spread?
00:03:38 First of all, if we still have the memory of this term today,
00:03:43 it is because it was brought up not by the Gauls, who did not have the writing,
00:03:49 we will talk about it later, but by the Romans who, in Latin, used this term,
00:03:57 of course, to qualify at the beginning the small population which called themselves the Gauls.
00:04:03 But as they arrived in a new space, which is what we call today Gaul,
00:04:09 they tended to use the term Gaul for the whole of the populations,
00:04:15 that is to say what was initially a tribe, a people, became in the end the name for the whole space.
00:04:21 As the Romans knew this space, as they knew these populations,
00:04:28 they transported this term of Gaul, a little bit like Christopher Columbus,
00:04:33 when he arrived in America, saw populations that he called the Indians because he believed to be in India,
00:04:38 and then the term Indian spread throughout the space and overlapped with all the names,
00:04:45 that is to say that there were tribes that bore other names, which in the end,
00:04:49 later on, all were englobed by the term of Gaul,
00:04:53 so those who were really Gauls and then the others.
00:04:56 So that's perhaps the first element to keep in mind,
00:05:01 a name that was brought down to us by the Romans, which is of Gaulish origin,
00:05:05 but which will be imposed on other tribes.
00:05:08 So earlier you said Gaul and Celtic,
00:05:12 it's something in which, in our minds, there is still a confusion.
00:05:18 The term Gaul is the term brought down by the Romans,
00:05:22 which therefore touches a small population and then a space that is little or nothing,
00:05:28 that of France, we will talk about it later.
00:05:31 And then there is the term Celtic, which is a little earlier, chronologically,
00:05:36 it is a term that is used by the Greeks to qualify the populations that later became the Gauls,
00:05:44 plus other populations on a slightly larger space.
00:05:48 So here it is the same thing, it is the Greek view of Central and Western Europe.
00:05:55 For them it is a new country, and this new country they call Celtic,
00:06:01 and the populations that populate them, the Celts.
00:06:04 And the Romans arrive a little later, through another entrance,
00:06:07 meet these famous Gauls and rename the space the Gaul.
00:06:12 So we can say, in the end, that all Gauls are Celts,
00:06:17 but on the other hand, some Celts are not Gauls,
00:06:20 that Celtic is the same space a little older,
00:06:24 and that the Gaul is a space a little more recent.
00:06:27 And maybe to finish this little story, these terms of Celts and Gauls,
00:06:34 are the terms of explorers, Greeks and Romans,
00:06:40 are the terms used by merchants, are the terms used by conquerors
00:06:48 who will apply to these spaces.
00:06:51 And perhaps the newest element, the most sympathetic,
00:06:56 is the one that allows to define the space of the Gaul.
00:07:00 When we say and we repeat without stopping, "the France that was called before the Gaul",
00:07:05 we must see in the end that it is a relatively recent invention.
00:07:11 Christian Goudinot, who died two years ago and who was a professor at the Collège de France,
00:07:17 demonstrated, by analyzing the texts, that the first to define what is now called France,
00:07:26 whose space is now called France as being the Gaul, was Caesar.
00:07:30 And that very probably Caesar had described this space as being the Gaul
00:07:38 to define his battlefield.
00:07:41 So Caesar says, in the end, down there is the Mediterranean,
00:07:45 to the west we have the Atlantic and the North Sea,
00:07:50 and then he is forced to find limits to the eastern part of his battlefield.
00:07:56 He cannot invade everything, he cannot conquer everything, there are the Alps,
00:08:00 it is pretty clear, and then there is a place at the top right where he has little problems,
00:08:04 and at that point he will choose the Rhine as a frontier for this space.
00:08:09 And so in the reports he sends to the Senate in Italy, Caesar says,
00:08:14 "Here is the Gaul, it is the space that you charge me to conquer,
00:08:20 the sea, the Alps, and at the bottom a river called the Rhine, beyond that are the Germany."
00:08:26 And so here we have something that is extraordinary,
00:08:28 it is both the Roman general who defines his battlefield,
00:08:33 who will say, "This is the Gaul, and then it is no longer the Gaul, it is the first to say it."
00:08:38 And so that didn't mean anything as such,
00:08:41 but on the other hand, from the moment he conquers this space,
00:08:44 from the moment this space is Romanized,
00:08:47 from the moment it is included in an economic and cultural space that will be Latin,
00:08:52 of course it will detach itself from the other spaces.
00:08:55 That is to say that the Gaul did not exist before, or it did not have these limits before Caesar,
00:09:01 from Caesar it will have this limit, and so it will acquire a certain independence.
00:09:05 When we see that for a long time, the wars that there were between the Gaul and Germany,
00:09:14 between France and Germany, for precisely this limit of the Rhine,
00:09:18 we realize that it does not hold much,
00:09:20 because at some point a soldier has defined his battlefield.
00:09:24 And of course, this problem of the Rhine, which was not invented as a frontier by Caesar,
00:09:31 it was not said before, it was not said during the war of 1070,
00:09:36 Camus-Julien, who was the chair of national antiquities at the College of France,
00:09:42 before Goudinot could not say it.
00:09:44 Imagine a historian who in 1914 says "but no, there is not at all,
00:09:49 it is the same thing on the one hand and on the other hand of the frontier,
00:09:51 and this frontier does not exist, it would not have had a brilliant career. "
00:09:55 And so it was ultimately necessary to recompose Europe,
00:09:59 and then a peaceful rereading of the texts of archaeology,
00:10:03 so that Goudinot shows that this Gaul was ultimately an space invented by the Romans
00:10:10 to define a battlefield.
00:10:11 And this geographical space of Gaul and Gauls,
00:10:15 is it limited to that or does it exceed a little?
00:10:18 Because we are used to saying that among our Belgian comrades there are also Gauls,
00:10:23 and then we also have people like the Galates for example,
00:10:26 who are not especially Gauls.
00:10:29 So there are two aspects.
00:10:31 We can go back to our ancestors, the Gauls.
00:10:34 So already, to say between us, because we are all serious people,
00:10:39 you, me and the people who listen to us,
00:10:42 that our ancestors may be Gauls, but we have many other ancestors.
00:10:47 There was of course the arrival, humanity comes from Africa,
00:10:51 the first occupations outside Africa come from populations who migrated.
00:10:59 In the Neolithic, we have populations from the Middle East
00:11:03 and populations from the Mediterranean.
00:11:05 And so ultimately our roots are multiple
00:11:09 and the Gauls are only part of our roots.
00:11:12 That's the first point.
00:11:13 And then, the Gauls are not only our ancestors,
00:11:19 and we can also say that the Gauls are not the ancestors of the French.
00:11:25 Indeed, there was a space in northern France and in Belgium
00:11:30 called the Belgian Gaul, which was actually Gaulish.
00:11:35 We even have the Elvettes in Switzerland, which are a Celtic tribe
00:11:39 and who are also Gauls.
00:11:40 So we realize that in other countries we can find them.
00:11:43 That's for this term of Gauls, which doesn't strictly occupy the borders.
00:11:48 And then conversely, in Corsica there was never a Gaul,
00:11:53 and we are well on the national territory,
00:11:56 and in the overseas spaces, we are well on the national territory,
00:12:00 there was never a Gaul.
00:12:02 We all have in mind the colonial discourse
00:12:05 where in the conquered countries of Africa,
00:12:08 the little children learned from their ancestors the Gauls.
00:12:11 So the Gauls, we have to narrow them down to a smaller space
00:12:16 and then win back the borders a little bit
00:12:18 to go to Switzerland and to Belgium.
00:12:23 For the case of the Galates, which are much further away,
00:12:27 the file is a little more complicated.
00:12:32 As I said earlier, Gaul means "valiant, strong".
00:12:36 Mr. Nota Bene can say "I am valiant, I am strong".
00:12:40 And then his neighbor, who is a little smarter or a little stronger,
00:12:45 can very well also say "I am the strong one".
00:12:47 So in the end, populations who speak a Celtic language
00:12:52 in very remote regions, call themselves "the strong ones",
00:12:58 do not make a union between these populations.
00:13:03 So in particular, we have in mind the case of the Galates
00:13:08 in the western part of Turkey,
00:13:12 where indeed in the ancient texts we find this term of Galate,
00:13:17 of Gaul for parts of Turkey.
00:13:20 It is even sometimes mentioned today, we will talk about it very quickly,
00:13:23 to bring Turkey into the European Union.
00:13:27 We say "well, there were Galates, so we are all the same".
00:13:31 Why not? We are all the same, but in any case,
00:13:33 these Galates are totally separate Galates.
00:13:36 And so today, when football fans applaud in front of the Galatasaray,
00:13:41 which is a club in Istanbul, which is therefore the club of a Galate College,
00:13:48 which takes its name from the Gaulish tribe, there is no problem.
00:13:51 But on the other hand, these Galates are not the Galates of everyone.
00:13:55 I had never done the comparison.
00:13:58 When I was a kid, I had seen the Galatasaray played at the Parc des Princes
00:14:01 and you just lit my lantern tonight, almost 30 years later.
00:14:05 Thank you.
00:14:07 And precisely the Gauls who were there before Caesar,
00:14:11 so the tribes, what they had,
00:14:15 are they really different tribes?
00:14:18 Are there things that bind them?
00:14:20 Is there a unity of the Gauls before Caesar's Gaul, the Romanized Gaul?
00:14:26 Is there a specific identity to each tribe?
00:14:29 Or do they share something?
00:14:31 A social organization, an artistic culture, languages, maybe?
00:14:36 This space that can be defined in a broad way,
00:14:40 from the Danube to the Atlantic, from the French Mediterranean coast
00:14:46 to the British Isles, is really a Celtic space
00:14:50 in which we have languages that are extremely close.
00:14:54 We find Celtic roots in the British Isles,
00:14:58 in France, in certain parts of Spain, and then also up to Hungary.
00:15:04 So they had a common language, common dialects,
00:15:11 and most likely they could communicate with each other.
00:15:14 So anyway, they didn't do it because from Hungary to Finisterre
00:15:19 they didn't see each other every day, they didn't call each other every day,
00:15:23 but in any case, the roots that we find today in the toponyms,
00:15:27 in the names of people, in the inscriptions,
00:15:30 we'll talk about that later, show that we have to deal with the same language.
00:15:34 And then we have a rather amusing testimony,
00:15:37 when Caesar leaves the Middle of France to go and conquer
00:15:42 what is called the Gaul War, he goes to fight,
00:15:46 but to fight, we know very well that at the beginning,
00:15:49 and sometimes at the end, you have to negotiate.
00:15:51 So already to negotiate, we often send ambassadors,
00:15:56 the term "ambassador" in French is a term of Gaulish origin.
00:16:00 It was a tribe, the Zambactes, which was a little bit specialized
00:16:05 in this type of man-to-man and woman-to-woman negotiations,
00:16:08 and therefore gave, in our language, the term "ambassador".
00:16:11 So you see, there are still modern words in French that have ancient origins.
00:16:16 And funny thing, Caesar will recruit someone who is the grandfather of Troc-Pompey
00:16:22 in the region of Orange, in his troops,
00:16:27 and then when he goes much higher, 500-600 km higher,
00:16:32 to see tribes, he sends him in front to negotiate with these populations.
00:16:36 So with a Gaul who had the accent of the Middle and a Gaul who had the accent of the North,
00:16:42 obviously we could talk, we could negotiate,
00:16:45 even if then it went to the chestnut.
00:16:47 But in any case, they had the same language.
00:16:49 So a linguistic unit, from close to close, real,
00:16:54 whose traces are found today, in toponyms, in names of people
00:16:59 and through archaeological documents.
00:17:01 Interesting cultural units too, in particular in the sense of abstraction.
00:17:07 There are very few human figurations, very few animal figurations,
00:17:11 and we have this Ars Celtic, which we can find traces today,
00:17:17 traces, testimonies, all over the space.
00:17:21 We also have life styles that are similar.
00:17:24 And so, in the end, there is no political unit,
00:17:27 there is no Celtic state, there is no Gaul state.
00:17:31 Before the Gaul War, we have tribes that are distributed throughout the territory,
00:17:39 but in any case, a certain cultural unit.
00:17:43 So the Celts are a real civilization, the Gauls in the recent period are,
00:17:49 and they lack this element of political unity.
00:17:53 That said, last point, this element of political unity
00:17:57 that we will talk about later, about Vercingetorix and the uses of the Gauls
00:18:03 in the politics of the 19th or 20th, even the 21st century,
00:18:08 we must be careful.
00:18:09 When we speak, for ancient times, of Greece, of Rome,
00:18:15 there was no war, there was war on unity.
00:18:17 That is, in the Greek world, in the Etruscan world,
00:18:21 there was not one Etruscan state or one Greek state,
00:18:24 there were cities-states, with people who spoke the same language,
00:18:28 with people who had the same culture, with people who did business,
00:18:31 so they worked in networks, but there was no Greek state.
00:18:35 So in the end, our Gaul tribes, who spoke the same language,
00:18:38 who probably had the same religion, who worked in networks,
00:18:42 who from time to time rubbed and quarreled,
00:18:44 were not so far from what was happening elsewhere in the Mediterranean.
00:18:48 A little bit in the back, a little bit in the back, to be honest,
00:18:52 but not that far.
00:18:54 And so this element of political unity, which will be almost a specificity
00:18:59 of the Roman world, by grouping the cities, by organizing them,
00:19:03 the Republic and then the Empire,
00:19:05 is perhaps the strongest shift compared to the Gauls,
00:19:09 but it was not so far behind compared to other ancient populations.
00:19:13 So you tell us that these tribes, these different tribes,
00:19:18 share something.
00:19:20 We will find them within this entity called the Gaul after Caesar,
00:19:25 we define them like that.
00:19:27 What were the contacts of these different Gaulish tribes
00:19:33 with the others, in particular with the Roman world and the Greek world
00:19:38 before Caesar and the beginning of Romanization?
00:19:41 So that's where it all goes wrong, if I dare say so.
00:19:46 Because the difference between our Gauls, our Celts,
00:19:50 and then our tribes, our Greeks and our Latins,
00:19:55 is that our Greeks and our Latins had a specific way of life,
00:20:00 which is the city, which is the city.
00:20:02 They had adopted the city that was born a few millennia ago
00:20:06 in the Middle East.
00:20:07 And so they were sedentary people,
00:20:09 and they were people who had invented a concept,
00:20:12 which is relatively recent, in the end, in the history of humanity,
00:20:16 which is that of the regrouping, of the agglomeration,
00:20:19 in the strict sense of the term.
00:20:20 People are regrouping, there is a relationship between the city
00:20:23 and the countryside.
00:20:25 Inside the city, we have people who have specialized activities,
00:20:29 soldiers, craftsmen, merchants, politicians, religious people,
00:20:35 and then we have the countryside that feeds the city.
00:20:38 And that's what we have in the Greek world, the cities,
00:20:41 that's what we have in the Etruscan world,
00:20:43 that's what we have in the Roman world.
00:20:45 And it was this element that our Gaulish populations lacked.
00:20:48 Our Gaulish populations, for a very long time,
00:20:51 at the age of bronze, at the age of iron,
00:20:53 almost, for some, until the Roman conquest,
00:20:57 until the first century BC, were probably semi-sedentary populations.
00:21:02 They lived in micro-regions, countries, kivites,
00:21:07 but in the end, they practiced what is called
00:21:11 "lessemage" from a demographic point of view.
00:21:13 When the population became a little big,
00:21:16 well, my faith, part of the population left,
00:21:19 moved elsewhere, etc.
00:21:21 Hence, construction techniques that are not often
00:21:25 hard constructions, stone, linked to the earth,
00:21:28 but often wood, use, in the end,
00:21:31 it was not a technological delay,
00:21:33 it was the adaptation to lifestyles.
00:21:36 Conglomerations that are much smaller,
00:21:39 hamlets, villages, and people who live,
00:21:42 in the end, mainly, agriculture and breeding.
00:21:46 So there is no city-country relationship,
00:21:48 there is a slightly more diffuse management of space,
00:21:51 until a slightly recent period.
00:21:54 And so, this lifestyle that was specific,
00:21:58 that differentiated our Gauls from the Mediterranean populations,
00:22:03 made them perceive these Greeks and these Romans
00:22:07 who put the city first, the city first,
00:22:11 as dangerous people.
00:22:13 These are things that we can hear or see even today,
00:22:16 that is, when you are set up in the city,
00:22:18 when you have a beautiful house, when you have your office in the basement,
00:22:21 if you hear people walking behind the window in the street,
00:22:24 you can be frightened by saying, "What are these people coming for?"
00:22:28 These people who come, they can come to harass you,
00:22:31 or they can pass, because in the end,
00:22:33 it is in their way of life.
00:22:35 And so our Celtic populations, our Gaulish populations,
00:22:38 not to mention the Bujotas, not to mention permanent migration,
00:22:42 were populations that could move.
00:22:45 And that, the Greeks and the Romans saw it.
00:22:48 They who were sedentary, they who were in the city,
00:22:51 on the limits of their territory,
00:22:53 very often, they had to face or be frightened by these populations.
00:22:59 So, for them, they were already barbarians because they spoke another language.
00:23:03 And then, they were people who pretended to be migrants,
00:23:07 or potentially invaders,
00:23:10 since they were not fixed in one place,
00:23:12 and then, they did not have rules related to this place.
00:23:15 So, almost the term "civilized", people who live in the city,
00:23:18 there were the civilized on one side, and then the barbarians on the other,
00:23:22 those who are implanted, who live in agglomeration,
00:23:25 and those who can move.
00:23:27 And so, in these Greek societies, I will leave them aside,
00:23:30 and Roman societies that rise in power,
00:23:33 these populations are populations that can be embarrassing,
00:23:37 which, from time to time, are rubbed against,
00:23:39 because in addition, these Celtic and Gaulish populations,
00:23:42 of course, they practice agriculture, of course, they practice pastoralism,
00:23:46 but from time to time, they rub against their neighbors,
00:23:49 if some were called "the valiant and the strong",
00:23:53 it is because from time to time, even among Gauls,
00:23:56 they had to go for those who were a little less valiant and a little less strong,
00:24:00 who had to quickly change their name.
00:24:02 So, this type of attitude had to exist.
00:24:05 I do it in the terms of the Galejad, but it's a bit like that.
00:24:09 And so, the perception, when we look at Greek texts,
00:24:13 when we look at Roman texts,
00:24:15 as soon as they tell us about these Celts and Gauls,
00:24:17 they are dangerous people because they move,
00:24:19 they are dangerous people because they cross borders
00:24:22 that are those of the Greeks and Romans,
00:24:25 and they are dangerous people because they do not live in cities as such.
00:24:29 And so, they are described as "strugglers",
00:24:32 they are described as "moving people",
00:24:34 they are described as "sometimes a little rich people",
00:24:38 because when they attack, they attack the sanctuaries, etc.
00:24:42 We also have the pretentious side.
00:24:44 And then, of course, we can, on the part of the Greeks and Romans,
00:24:48 be shocked because their way of life is different,
00:24:53 but also because the contexts of meeting are different.
00:24:57 When the Romans, the Greeks, the Gauls, sorry,
00:25:01 get closer to Rome, of course, there is a conflict,
00:25:04 it is in 390 BC the intervention of Brennus,
00:25:09 the famous little phrase "unfortunately defeated",
00:25:12 it is because, indeed, Brennus asks for his share of the booty,
00:25:17 he says that he wants the weight of the opponent's leader as a share of the booty,
00:25:24 for some it would have cost very dearly,
00:25:26 and at the moment when the balance is in balance,
00:25:29 he throws his sword on the leader's side to add weight
00:25:33 and to say "I have even more weight",
00:25:35 the leader says "but it's unfair" and Brennus says "unfortunately defeated",
00:25:38 it's me who gives the rule, you have yours.
00:25:41 So this kind of thing, of course, seen from a civilized
00:25:45 and especially from a loser,
00:25:49 it's something that stays in the memories,
00:25:51 saying "these people are not reliable,
00:25:53 even when we lose, they don't know how to set the right rules,
00:25:57 and then at some point they were dangerous for us".
00:26:00 So that, the Romans have it in their memory,
00:26:04 the Greeks also have it in their memory,
00:26:06 because around 270 they approach Delphi,
00:26:10 they enter the sanctuary,
00:26:12 and there is a rather interesting episode from an anthropological and historical point of view,
00:26:16 it is that the Gauls at some point hesitate to invade the sanctuary,
00:26:21 because still the gods are always a little dangerous,
00:26:25 even if they are not the gods themselves,
00:26:26 we never know, maybe the gods are arguing among themselves,
00:26:29 and then at that moment the Gaul chief enters the sanctuary
00:26:34 and sees idols, he sees gods with human figures,
00:26:38 and then he starts laughing and he clearly says
00:26:41 "what are these people whose gods look like men,
00:26:44 if they look like men, their gods are not very strong",
00:26:47 because indeed for them the gods were the forces of nature,
00:26:50 and so it's Greeks, and so the Greeks have it in their memory,
00:26:53 and so these people don't respect anything,
00:26:58 since they don't respect the sanctuaries, they don't respect their gods.
00:27:00 So all this memory, the classical civilizations had it,
00:27:04 so it forged this image of the bellicose Gaul,
00:27:08 of the unreliable Gaul, of the Gaul who was able to overthrow the idols,
00:27:14 it strengthened it strongly and it strengthened it for us,
00:27:18 because the Gauls did not write their own history,
00:27:21 I said earlier that they did not have writing,
00:27:23 so everything we know by the writings of the Gauls,
00:27:26 we know it by the Greek and Roman texts,
00:27:28 so it's like if we used only the American military reports
00:27:34 to know the mentality of the Kuwaitis,
00:27:38 it can still be a little disturbing in this type of thing.
00:27:43 We only have the version of the civilized compared to the local population,
00:27:49 hence what we will mention later, the contribution of archaeology,
00:27:52 which allows today to give the floor to these Gauls, if I dare say so,
00:27:57 since in the end we can write the history of the Gaul today
00:28:01 thanks to material documentation, these other archives,
00:28:05 and we can stop writing the Gaul of the Gauls
00:28:08 only with the archives transmitted by the Greeks and the Romans,
00:28:13 because they are both partial and partial archives,
00:28:18 they are not all Gauls, but they are Gauls seen by the Romans and the Greeks.
00:28:22 But these Gauls, before they were Romanized,
00:28:27 they were not only the enemy, since there were also more complex relations,
00:28:33 which may be linked with the Romans, especially I think to trade,
00:28:38 they did not close the borders and spend their time fighting,
00:28:42 there were exchanges anyway.
00:28:44 So that's the overall impression, it's the population,
00:28:48 it's the profile, the caricature given by the ancient authors.
00:28:54 Then there is the reality of the terrain,
00:28:56 there are two periods, the ancient Greek period and the Roman period.
00:29:03 An element that will link these Gauls with the Mediterranean populations
00:29:11 is the foundation of Marseille.
00:29:14 In 600 BC, there are Greeks who leave Turkey,
00:29:18 from a city called Phocée,
00:29:20 here too we come back to football, but this time with a real team.
00:29:24 So Greeks leave Phocée in something that can look like the Semaj
00:29:32 I was talking about for the Gauls.
00:29:34 There are too many populations in Phocée,
00:29:36 we separate from a part of the population,
00:29:38 the youngest ones leave and go to a place where they can settle
00:29:43 and do business.
00:29:44 So they create Marseille in 600 BC,
00:29:47 they don't create it anywhere, they create it in the mouth of the Rhône
00:29:51 because it is an axis of communication towards this Celtic world,
00:29:55 towards this Gaulish world.
00:29:56 They create Marseille as such,
00:29:58 without the will, because they are not very numerous,
00:30:01 to invade space, only to serve as an outpost
00:30:05 between the coast and the back country.
00:30:07 And so there we are going to have an interesting phenomenon
00:30:10 called the Celtic Principalities,
00:30:15 which is that the installation of a city,
00:30:19 of the first Angolan city, in this case Marseille,
00:30:21 will provoke by tickling the creation of cities in the Gaulish world.
00:30:27 In Vix, we have everything in Burgundy,
00:30:32 on Mount Lassois, a city that was created.
00:30:35 We have Bourges, we probably have Lyon,
00:30:38 that is to say in the center of the Gaul a series of cities
00:30:43 that will serve as an interface between the Mediterranean and Europe.
00:30:48 In the center of the Gaul, we will have cities
00:30:51 that will serve as an interface in the different river spaces.
00:30:57 We go up the Rhône, we go up the Seine,
00:31:00 we arrive in this sector there.
00:31:02 From Vix flows the Seine and we return to the Manche.
00:31:06 So there we will create cities, groups.
00:31:10 These are places where there will be wealth.
00:31:13 These are probably places that will be politically and militarily reinforced
00:31:21 by the Greeks because we want to do business.
00:31:25 So these local populations that are sedentary,
00:31:28 they are offered technologies.
00:31:31 I will not make any comparison,
00:31:34 but a little bit like today, we can offer rockets
00:31:37 or good military equipment to certain populations
00:31:40 to guarantee peace or trade in certain parts of the world.
00:31:44 The same thing happens.
00:31:45 We offer beautiful fortifications in Vix.
00:31:48 In Hönnoburg, a surprising thing, at the Danube mouth,
00:31:52 sorry, at the source of the Danube, we have a Celtic fortress
00:31:55 in which we have a fortification of Typetrusc.
00:31:58 So there is a technological contribution that is put in place by the Greeks
00:32:02 for these people who serve their commercial activity.
00:32:05 We offer prestigious gifts, prestigious goods,
00:32:10 embassy gifts, the crater of Vix and the wine that goes inside,
00:32:14 the great chaudron of Lavaux searched by INRAP, etc.
00:32:20 So in the end, some Gaulish populations will enrich themselves,
00:32:24 sedentary and enjoy this trade between the Mediterranean and the Celtic world.
00:32:31 People will meet, there will inevitably be unions in these populations,
00:32:37 there will be the establishment of this network that exists,
00:32:41 which will develop more and more.
00:32:44 We are in the 6th century, it will be extremely strong in the 5th century,
00:32:48 there is a small drop in the 4th century BC,
00:32:51 and then the Romans will do the same thing on the Mediterranean coast.
00:32:57 Here too, the establishment of port areas, the establishment of cities,
00:33:01 commercial activity, and so we will have a Mediterranean sea
00:33:06 whose life level in the Greek world and then in the Roman world
00:33:13 will depend on the wealth of the Celtic world.
00:33:17 We are also in a classic pattern, advanced countries and then production areas
00:33:23 and latency areas.
00:33:25 I have given only one example that can illustrate this phenomenon.
00:33:29 We often talk about the nerve of war, and the nerve of war is metal.
00:33:34 Yet the great technological, military, but also economic and artisanal contribution
00:33:42 in this period is bronze. It is not the rafales or military equipment that I mentioned earlier,
00:33:48 it is the acquisition of bronze. Bronze is an alloy of copper
00:33:52 that is found in Greece, in Italy, in Spain,
00:33:57 so in the Mediterranean there is no problem if you want copper.
00:34:00 On the other hand, to make bronze you need copper and tin.
00:34:03 And there tin is absent in Greece, it is absent in Italy, it is absent in Spain.
00:34:08 If you want tin, you have to go to Morvan, you have to go to Brittany,
00:34:13 you have to go to the British Isles.
00:34:15 And so a Euro-Mediterranean trade will be put in place,
00:34:19 a globalization before the hour, so that a specific resource
00:34:23 of these peripheral regions can go back to the reasons of the Mediterranean regions.
00:34:30 So that's it, when today we visit an Athenian museum or an Italian museum
00:34:35 and we see a weapon, we see a statue, we see a bronze vase,
00:34:39 but there is a little bit of Gaul in it, it is the tin that is inside.
00:34:42 And so this trade was put in place at that time.
00:34:45 And so there will be this tin, there will be cereals,
00:34:49 because I said earlier that this period is the outbreak of the great cities in the Mediterranean,
00:34:55 which says city, says demographic outbreak, mouths to feed,
00:35:00 and at that time we need cereals, especially since we are at war,
00:35:03 we have merchants, we have artisans, and these cereals,
00:35:07 we will recover them in these peripheral areas.
00:35:09 And there we can talk about it again, but Gaul is really one of the corners of the Roman world.
00:35:15 Another element, this may be the penultimate example,
00:35:20 the Mediterranean world has a particular attraction for a specific material, which is amber.
00:35:29 So amber, we still see it, it is a product that we see in jewellery or even in charms.
00:35:38 So it is fossil resin that we find on the coast of the Baltic Sea, on the beach.
00:35:45 In the end, it is resin, like today a bread or a tree produces resin,
00:35:51 except that this resin is fossil and that in the Mediterranean world,
00:35:56 this rare, transparent product with specific colours, with a specific touch,
00:36:01 was a product that was considered to have medicinal virtues, that it was a lucky charm.
00:36:08 And in all the Truscan tombs, in all the Greek tombs, we find this amber.
00:36:13 And this amber comes from the Baltic Sea.
00:36:15 And so there was this trade.
00:36:17 And the last element too, because it is a first necessity product
00:36:21 that interested the Mediterranean populations, are the slaves.
00:36:24 We said earlier that these Gauls from time to time rubbed each other,
00:36:29 they took hostages, they were sold as slaves,
00:36:33 and these slaves interested the Mediterranean societies.
00:36:37 So we find ourselves in a world, in a globalised space,
00:36:42 a Mediterranean space with advanced societies
00:36:46 who go to this peripheral space to which the Gaul belongs,
00:36:52 to come and get raw material, cereals, slaves, ethane, amber in particular,
00:36:59 and in exchange they will receive services, the ramparts that I mentioned earlier,
00:37:05 wine, and that is an extremely important element for this story and for the future,
00:37:11 since wine existed in Gaul from a natural point of view,
00:37:16 but on the other hand we did not know how to produce wine.
00:37:19 So to put it simply, do not repeat it, but wine is not a natural product.
00:37:23 When we have a grape juice, naturally it becomes vinegar.
00:37:27 Wine is a manufactured product, and therefore the recipe for making wine
00:37:32 was not known to the Gauls.
00:37:34 But when they wanted to get drunk, they got drunk with hydromel,
00:37:37 they got drunk with beer, and so they drank things at 2-3 degrees,
00:37:42 and so the effect was reduced.
00:37:44 And there, the Mediterranean will bring this wine,
00:37:47 a drink that can be distributed quickly, that can be shared infinitely,
00:37:53 that has an important added value, that has important cultural exotic values,
00:38:01 and that will be an extremely strong exchange element.
00:38:04 So, the services, the wine, a few little jewels, a few little ceramics,
00:38:10 but that's not why the Gauls got drunk, they also produced ceramics.
00:38:13 On the other hand, they did not know how to make wine,
00:38:15 and they did not know how to make certain forms of services either.
00:38:20 So, all of this will put them in contact, and all of this will be commercial activities.
00:38:25 We see it, there is the enemy Gaul, there is the Gaul with whom we trade,
00:38:30 but there is the Gaul with whom we forge links too, and with whom we use to go to war.
00:38:35 There is a question that is quite complex too, which is that of the Gaulish mercenaries,
00:38:41 who could have been used, can you tell us a little more about this?
00:38:46 So, there too, it is something that is often mentioned, which is not specific to the Gauls.
00:38:54 That is to say that in these ancient periods, the fact of lending,
00:39:00 of having a mercenary activity, was something extremely classic.
00:39:05 And so, some people from tribe to tribe lent, gave their services,
00:39:11 and so indeed, in the Greek armies, in the famous Battle of Ymer,
00:39:17 we cite the presence of Gauls from the region of Narbonne, Iberia, etc., of the Isis.
00:39:23 So, we have Gauls who are brought in each time.
00:39:26 So, the case of mercenaries is interesting because they are people who had traveled,
00:39:33 so something classic, it was not specific to the Gauls,
00:39:37 because mercenaries came from all over the place.
00:39:39 We wanted to work, we were able to fight,
00:39:44 we sold our services to an army on a regular basis.
00:39:48 But that means that in the end, we knew the space, we knew the mentalities,
00:39:54 we also knew the ways of fighting, we were paid for it, by gold, by money,
00:40:00 we saw cultural practices, and in particular some researchers,
00:40:05 I am not a specialist in this phenomenon,
00:40:08 but think that the introduction of the money in Gaul is linked to this activity of mercenaries.
00:40:14 So, Gauls who would have fought with the Greeks and then with the Romans,
00:40:19 who would have been paid in gold, and then when we see the first Gaulish coins,
00:40:24 they copy it, in particular, from the statuettes of Philip II of Macedonia,
00:40:29 and we imagine that if these Gauls from the center of Gaul, in particular,
00:40:33 copied these coins, it is because they had them in their pockets,
00:40:36 and if they had them in their pockets, they could only come from these activities of mercenaries,
00:40:40 why not? And in any case, there is a knowledge in the weapons that also takes place.
00:40:44 So that's it, it's something that can bother us,
00:40:48 but this relatively large space from the British Isles to the Danube,
00:40:53 and from the North Sea to the south of the Mediterranean,
00:40:58 was a connected space.
00:41:00 It didn't concern everyone, like today, where you take a low-cost plane quickly,
00:41:07 whoever it is, so it didn't concern everyone,
00:41:10 but everyone had to know someone who had traveled and who knew.
00:41:14 And so all of this means that this world was not only a world of confrontation,
00:41:19 it was also a world of connection, of contact.
00:41:22 So I can give two examples, I was talking earlier about the Phoceans who had created Massalia,
00:41:28 the texts, the documentation, show us that it was men who created the city.
00:41:32 However, the city of Marseille still exists today,
00:41:34 which shows that they had to take women locally
00:41:38 to be able to populate and repopulate the city.
00:41:41 So you see, the collections are made, the Greek here and there remains Greek,
00:41:44 but on the other hand, they associate themselves in particular with local women.
00:41:47 So that's an element that exists.
00:41:50 Another element that I said twice is that our Gauls did not have writing,
00:41:56 but archaeology shows us that Gauls sometimes borrowed the writing of others
00:42:02 to write their own language.
00:42:05 They spoke Gaulish, they had no alphabet,
00:42:08 but at one point they caught Greek letters to write their sound,
00:42:14 and they caught Latin letters to write their sound.
00:42:18 Near Montpellier, in Latte, and we can see it at the Atara Museum,
00:42:22 we found on ceramic fragments of the Abecedaires.
00:42:26 So these are extremely touching documents.
00:42:29 We have a black ceramic that was engraved on the hard tip,
00:42:32 in which we have the Greek alphabet, alpha, beta, gamma, etc.,
00:42:36 with a fairly assured writing.
00:42:39 And we have another black ceramic fragment in which we have the same alphabet,
00:42:45 but badly written, and we can see very well that we have the child or the apprentice
00:42:49 who learns the Greek alphabet.
00:42:51 With something that is even amusing,
00:42:53 that is to say that there is a word that is written in Greek,
00:42:57 which is the word knax, and the word knax in Greek means "little milk".
00:43:02 It's not a word we use every day,
00:43:04 but it's a word that poses some writing difficulties.
00:43:07 So it's an element of exercise that we know in Greece,
00:43:10 that we know in Egypt, when we want to learn the Greek alphabet.
00:43:13 So you see, there was not only conflict,
00:43:16 there was not only a little hard elements,
00:43:19 there was really a cultural element that was mixed,
00:43:23 extremely precise, the learning of letters,
00:43:27 the legend of inter-ethnic marriages,
00:43:29 a supported commercial activity.
00:43:32 When we go to Bybracte, when we go to Alesia,
00:43:34 we see hundreds, even thousands of children,
00:43:37 which shows that this trade was still an extremely important trade.
00:43:42 And precisely, the contribution of archaeology in recent years
00:43:47 has been to show that these cultural activities,
00:43:51 these commercial activities, were prior to the period of conflict,
00:43:56 and that it is not a space that was conquered to then do business,
00:44:02 it is a space that was first conquered commercially,
00:44:06 and then to which we wanted to put a guarantee,
00:44:09 in relation to the population, in relation to the risk of losing this area of influence,
00:44:14 and at that moment we conquered in a military way.
00:44:16 This is what we call the Gaul War.
00:44:18 And precisely, after this Gaul War,
00:44:22 after this Roman invasion, this Romanization,
00:44:25 we will start to speak of the Gauls as Roman Gallo.
00:44:29 However, I don't have the feeling that we talk a lot about Roman Iberians
00:44:34 or Roman Brittons.
00:44:36 Is that because there was a difference in the implementation
00:44:40 of the Romans in Gaul compared to other geographical areas,
00:44:45 or is it a vision, perhaps, that we later identified
00:44:52 these people as Roman Gallo, more precisely?
00:44:55 I think it's the second hypothesis.
00:44:58 The term "Roman Gallo", for the specialists of antiquity,
00:45:03 is a term that is a little bit rejected today.
00:45:06 It doesn't mean much.
00:45:08 There were Romans who came,
00:45:12 former soldiers, auxiliaries, merchants,
00:45:15 negotiators, who came to Gaul to settle.
00:45:18 There were Gauls married to Romans,
00:45:24 all that didn't exist.
00:45:26 But the term "Roman Gallo" is a fact of civilization,
00:45:30 that is to say, we have the impression that we are becoming civilized
00:45:35 and that we are becoming Roman as such.
00:45:38 And that is perhaps an element specifically in our vocabulary
00:45:42 of French historians, since we have a little bit of this culture
00:45:47 of forgiveness.
00:45:49 Our Gauls, they have to stay a little bit anyway,
00:45:52 and so they become civilized.
00:45:54 The term "Roman" is an element of civilization
00:45:58 and the term "Gaul" is an element that is a bit of its root.
00:46:02 But it is something that is extremely discussed today
00:46:05 and even for specialists, less and less used.
00:46:10 Just a little parenthesis, I was talking about this vision of the Greeks
00:46:14 and the Romans who spoke of migration, of invaders
00:46:18 from the Gauls.
00:46:19 That too is an almost current vocabulary,
00:46:22 that of migrants, that of invaders.
00:46:25 When we talk about the Romans who set up a conquest
00:46:29 in a large part of Europe, we never talk about the migration
00:46:33 of the Romans, we never talk about the invading of the Romans,
00:46:36 we talk about Romanization.
00:46:38 These are the benefits of colonization.
00:46:41 We don't say that they are migrants, they are moving.
00:46:43 I was talking earlier about the Greeks of Fossey who make Marseille,
00:46:48 who make Emporia in Spain.
00:46:50 We don't say, "Hey, they're migrants, hey, they're invaders."
00:46:53 We say, "It's Hellenization, they bring the Greeks."
00:46:57 Like the Phoenicians had Orientalized, they brought the flavors of the East.
00:47:02 While our Gauls, when they move, they are invaders.
00:47:05 And yet they are at home.
00:47:07 It's still a paradox in that term.
00:47:11 So, we should be able to almost talk about Roman invaders
00:47:17 and to talk about the galization of this space.
00:47:21 But our history is also written, we will come to the 18th,
00:47:28 to the 19th century, a time when we had the same attitude,
00:47:32 especially in Africa, and where we brought civilization
00:47:38 and its benefits.
00:47:40 And so, of course, we were a people with a higher level of civilization
00:47:46 and we were among indigenous populations.
00:47:49 And so, in the end, we projected this activity there with a vocabulary
00:47:54 as it existed in our space.
00:47:57 Hence the term "colony", hence the term "colonization".
00:48:03 It's ultimately a transfer of a vocabulary from the 19th and early 20th centuries
00:48:09 into the vocabulary of the historian.
00:48:11 Today, specialists are trying to clean up that vocabulary.
00:48:15 And so, this very modern footprint of the Gauls in our history
00:48:23 and of these colonies, of this development, of this image,
00:48:27 how does it manifest itself today?
00:48:29 How did the Gauls become, especially in the 19th century,
00:48:36 the ancestors of the French or the Francs?
00:48:40 How did they become part of this tradition?
00:48:44 So, it's a complex case that forges our identity,
00:48:51 perhaps even more than the Gauls in the strict sense of the term.
00:48:55 So, our Gauls, of course, are Romanized following this conquest.
00:49:03 Just a little parenthesis, the Gaulish War of Caesar
00:49:06 only concerns two-thirds of the territory.
00:49:09 The southern part, it was the Provencia, had already been Roman for a long time.
00:49:13 So, today, when we say the Gaulish War,
00:49:16 it's a phenomenon that is almost regional
00:49:19 compared to a space that was already Mediterraneanized.
00:49:22 That's the first point.
00:49:24 Then, our Gauls will be Romanized,
00:49:28 and then we will have the arrival of the Francs.
00:49:31 So, I know that you often work with Bruno Dumézil,
00:49:34 he will speak of it in a much more knowledgeable way than me,
00:49:37 so I'm not going to talk about the barbaric invasions of the Cossidet,
00:49:41 but at some point we have these Francs arriving in this space.
00:49:46 And then, indeed, our country, which is being built, which is evolving,
00:49:53 and whose origins are linked to our kings,
00:49:58 is going back to Clovis, so a Franc as such.
00:50:04 And so, in the end, in a strange way,
00:50:07 once again, this space will take the name of the invaders, in quotation marks.
00:50:13 We had, indeed, this Gallo-Roman space,
00:50:17 and then France could have been called Gallia,
00:50:20 with the arrival of the Francs, why not?
00:50:23 No, not at all, it became France,
00:50:25 that is to say that we adopted the name of the invaders,
00:50:28 and the others stayed there.
00:50:30 And then, the history, of course, of France,
00:50:33 was based on the lineage of the kings, which was a lineage that was divine,
00:50:39 and on the other hand, the third state, the people,
00:50:42 was considered to have another origin.
00:50:46 Either it was not mentioned, or sometimes it was indeed mentioned
00:50:51 as being Gallic, because the term was known,
00:50:55 because in particular the most literate people
00:50:58 read the Gaul War as such.
00:51:00 But there will be a rupture in this population
00:51:04 between the lineage of the kings, of the divine Francs,
00:51:08 and then these Gaulish populations from the beginning.
00:51:11 To make it quick, this system will last until the Revolution,
00:51:18 or from the 18th century BC,
00:51:27 there will be a revaluation of the term "Gaul".
00:51:33 With the help of historian's trials,
00:51:36 that is to say, we will try to build genealogies,
00:51:39 at some point we will say, "Hey, these Francs
00:51:42 may have Gallic origins."
00:51:44 So why not?
00:51:47 It was mentioned at some point.
00:51:49 There was this story about the Trojans?
00:51:51 Exactly, the Trojans, where we will bring back
00:51:54 these populations through the intermediary of Troy.
00:51:57 So we invent, it's a bit like the men when they write a story,
00:52:02 it's about reinventing genealogies to justify their presence
00:52:07 where they are.
00:52:08 The person who is legitimate is either the person who is strong,
00:52:12 or the person who has the right to the soil.
00:52:14 And so each time we try to reinvent the right to the soil
00:52:17 by sticking it to a historical element.
00:52:21 And so, from the revolution,
00:52:24 the history of France was the history of the kings,
00:52:30 it will become the history of the French.
00:52:32 And at that moment, the history of the French,
00:52:36 we will attribute to the French as origin,
00:52:40 the name of the people most anciently named.
00:52:43 We did not know the name of the peoples before the Gauls,
00:52:47 since the Gauls are the first to be named in the texts,
00:52:51 since the first texts known are the Greek texts and then Roman.
00:52:55 And so we will say, well, here is the first name we have
00:52:58 for these populations, they are Gauls,
00:53:01 of which our ancestors, the Gauls, as such.
00:53:04 We make the strata and it becomes the origins of the Third State.
00:53:08 It is no longer a history of France, it is a history of the French,
00:53:13 and it will be these roots that will be put in place.
00:53:16 With things that are still marked in our imagination,
00:53:20 which are of two types.
00:53:22 One, like when we invent and enrich this history of France
00:53:28 with these Gauls, which are our substratum, which are our basis,
00:53:33 we tend to stick everything that is ancient to it.
00:53:36 At that time, we did not know how to date the Dolmens,
00:53:39 we did not know how to date the Menhirs,
00:53:41 so everything that is prehistoric is stuck to this strata.
00:53:45 Everything that is Roman and Gaulic.
00:53:48 And so our obelisk, which is the supplier of the Menhir,
00:53:54 is quite simply in the school manual of Uderzo and Goscinny,
00:53:59 we saw the Gauls in the middle of the Menhir and in the middle of the Dolmens,
00:54:04 because we still imagined at that time,
00:54:07 so about 70-80 years ago,
00:54:11 that these Gauls were the ones who had carved these Menhirs.
00:54:15 So these are things that can confuse us,
00:54:17 but we must see that the modern dating systems are relatively recent.
00:54:23 1950 is the invention or the adaptation of carbon 14 to archaeology.
00:54:28 Before 1950, we had trouble or significant difficulties in dating prehistory.
00:54:34 So suddenly, everything that was old, everything that was prehistoric, was Gaulish,
00:54:38 and so it gave a basis, a structure,
00:54:41 and it gave the beginning of the roots of our population as such.
00:54:45 So that's the first element.
00:54:47 The base is Gaulish and it is throughout space.
00:54:51 We don't look for it, we build it, we gather it as such.
00:54:55 The second element, we attribute a figure that we still have in mind today,
00:55:03 which is that of the Magnificent Loser.
00:55:06 This is the case of Vercingetorix,
00:55:09 who tries to bring together the Gaulish populations during the Gaul War,
00:55:15 which has some small successes, but above all many defeats.
00:55:21 And then in 1952, in Alesia, where he is indeed obliged to surrender his weapons,
00:55:26 to surrender, and then he is taken prisoner, brought to Italy,
00:55:30 and he dies in prison in Rome.
00:55:32 And this Vercingetorix, who is nothing more than a loser,
00:55:37 and in the little book you mentioned earlier, I put a hypothesis,
00:55:42 so I don't have to mention it, the book is there,
00:55:47 but I mention the hypothesis between us, above all, don't repeat it.
00:55:51 I wonder if Vercingetorix was not a Gaulish leader,
00:56:00 put forward by Caesar almost to serve his cause.
00:56:04 That is to say that, in the end, invading a country without difficulty is not very chic,
00:56:10 especially when we see reports in the Roman Senate that we will have troops,
00:56:15 that we will have money, to say that in front of us we have a Ben Laden or a Gaddafi,
00:56:21 and that it is strong, we have a public enemy number one,
00:56:25 that he is vicious, that he is clever, that he is able to gather,
00:56:29 that we need troops and money.
00:56:31 It is almost a human vision that we can have today and that we could have in the past.
00:56:36 And when we see the archaeological file of Vercingetorix, which actually existed,
00:56:45 but the file is relatively narrow and relatively thin,
00:56:50 when we see the historical file, if it is Caesar, almost no one talks about it,
00:56:55 I don't know if this ferocious character of Vercingetorix was not put forward,
00:57:01 including in his qualities.
00:57:03 He is intriguing, he is able to gather, he moves, etc.
00:57:09 I think these are almost qualities that were attributed to him by Caesar.
00:57:13 And paradoxically, of course, Caesar will beat him because he chose a leader of his size,
00:57:20 and so it allows him to say "it's the end of the war",
00:57:23 while we know that afterwards there will still be rebellions, revolts and some other fights.
00:57:29 But officially, from the moment the public enemy number one is caught,
00:57:35 we can get out victorious, we bring him to Italy, we present him, etc.
00:57:40 We make him parade, so we come out with a lot of glory.
00:57:45 And when we stopped writing our national novel,
00:57:50 we took up this image of this resistant, of this young, strong,
00:57:58 ferocious person, facing the profile of Caesar, a little old, a little strategist,
00:58:03 but who did not have the vivacity, the will of this Vercingetorix.
00:58:08 And this is something that we still have in our minds.
00:58:11 In a few days the Tour de France will begin, and for those who will follow it,
00:58:16 they will tend to focus their attention on the people who are ranked second, third, fourth in the general ranking.
00:58:26 It is this one that we will encourage, that we will support.
00:58:29 It is the one that made the success of Pulidore, Naguerre, he lost, but he was valuable,
00:58:34 while the Anquetil and the Mercs won, but they were arrogant, cheaters, bad guys, etc.
00:58:41 So in our minds we have it, we have the second merit,
00:58:47 and the winner who sometimes, if he won, it is never in an extremely correct way.
00:58:53 If there is a spirit, maybe Gaul, it is perhaps the one we still have.
00:58:56 And when you say that in the 18th century we begin to assimilate the people to the Gauls,
00:59:02 to those who were there before, to the ancients,
00:59:04 does it create an opposition to those who lead the elites, who are the heirs of the Francs?
00:59:15 So for the difference, the aristocrats, the royalty has a specific line,
00:59:23 for the Gauls we will make it something popular.
00:59:27 And so there too, this line is not a character, it is that of the tribes,
00:59:32 and it is that of the tribes that are dispersed on the territory.
00:59:35 These tribes that are almost ready to fight, ready to face,
00:59:40 so there is courage, there is ardor, but on the other hand they do not get together.
00:59:44 And so this is often what we blame the French people for.
00:59:47 He is able to go, he has the will, he is a worker,
00:59:51 but for the results he does not take off completely, and we cannot go all the way.
00:59:55 So it is both something that we claim, we are free, we are numerous,
01:00:01 we are different, we are all together, but one against the other.
01:00:08 And on the other hand, we cannot cross this gap,
01:00:11 which, on the part of the elites, can be blamed.
01:00:14 And so we need to find a leader, and the leader actually refers to
01:00:19 Vercingetorix and to the temptation to group together as such.
01:00:24 And so that is going to be reinforced each time.
01:00:29 We even see the character that will undoubtedly bring the most,
01:00:36 which will perhaps even, in my opinion,
01:00:38 modernize the vision that we have of the Gauls, it is Napoleon III.
01:00:43 Napoleon III will want to build his own history,
01:00:47 build a history of the French people.
01:00:50 He will, of course, with the military,
01:00:54 go to the national territory with the Gauls' war,
01:00:57 he will search for Alésia, he will search for Bibracte,
01:01:01 send troops, send with quite rigorous methods.
01:01:05 Again, INRAP this year still searched on the slopes of Bibracte,
01:01:10 sorry, on the slopes of Gergovy,
01:01:13 and we see there trenches made by the farmers, perpendicular,
01:01:17 a bit like today we are making diagnostics in pre-Venetian archaeology,
01:01:21 to try to find the traces of the camps of the Gauls' war.
01:01:25 So, by method, by rigor, we read the texts,
01:01:29 we make surveys of the buildings, the opidums in this case,
01:01:34 of Alésia, of Gergovy and others,
01:01:36 we try to find the traces of the battles,
01:01:39 we gather the documents from all over France in one place,
01:01:44 the National Archaeological Museum, formerly the National Antiquities Museum in Saint-Germain-en-Laye,
01:01:50 where, in the end, by gathering everything that is on the historical land,
01:01:54 we build a single story.
01:01:57 It is that of the French people.
01:01:59 When we visit the Museum of Humane, we have the impression of continuity,
01:02:03 while there are documents that come from all over the world,
01:02:06 with cultural differences, but we find them there,
01:02:09 and we have a historical continuity.
01:02:11 So, he gathers all that, he even writes a story about the Caesars,
01:02:15 and he presents himself there.
01:02:17 And with a somewhat pernicious vision,
01:02:20 at the same time he writes a story about the French people,
01:02:23 but he says that if the French people managed to rise up,
01:02:28 it is because they accepted civilization in Romanization.
01:02:33 So, there is both this French people that has its roots,
01:02:37 but that must also accept reform.
01:02:40 And those who try to sell Napoleon III.
01:02:43 So, he has an extremely strong element,
01:02:47 extremely founding,
01:02:49 which will create and all this movement will set in place.
01:02:55 We have revalued Gauls,
01:02:58 secular ancestors of all the French,
01:03:03 whose history will be written by people like Abbé Desthiery,
01:03:08 like Michelet,
01:03:10 and so we will have in the 19th century an extremely important production,
01:03:14 from historians, but also from geographers.
01:03:19 We have someone who is extremely important in this process,
01:03:23 who is Paul Vidal de la Blache.
01:03:25 We all have in mind the famous maps of Armand Collin
01:03:28 in the schools like Pagnol,
01:03:31 but for the oldest of us, I am one.
01:03:34 We have also seen this in our schools or in our high schools,
01:03:36 and it is Vidal de la Blache who invents these maps,
01:03:39 in which we see the limits of France,
01:03:43 the limits of the colonial empire,
01:03:46 and a history of France that has been producing these sources
01:03:51 in an extremely ancient way since this Gaulish period.
01:03:55 Vidal de la Blache is the inventor of the geographic term "country".
01:04:02 "Country" in the sense of Montbéliard, or country of Aix, or country of Auge,
01:04:08 which is increasingly in use today.
01:04:11 This term "country" comes from the Gaul "pagus",
01:04:15 which is the space at the end of the tribe.
01:04:18 And Vidal de la Blache will re-emphasize it.
01:04:21 It was used strongly in his geographical presentation of France.
01:04:26 And then there is a contemporary character who is extremely important,
01:04:30 who is Lavis, who will publish a manual known as "Petit Lavis",
01:04:36 which is distributed to all schoolchildren from the ancient period,
01:04:42 from 1884 to the 1950s.
01:04:46 It's not prehistoric for everyone.
01:04:48 This "Petit Lavis" will be widely distributed,
01:04:51 and will start with our ancestors the Gauls.
01:04:54 And the "Petit Lavis" is a collection of several million copies.
01:04:58 Better than that, there is the book on the Vikings to appear.
01:05:02 This is really the strongest historical book, it is the "Petit Lavis".
01:05:07 And so all the children, the Bretons, the Occitans, the children of the East,
01:05:13 will all have this manual, in which our ancestors the Gauls will be presented,
01:05:19 towards Saint-Géthory, the image of the chief who tries to gather them,
01:05:24 with even questions.
01:05:26 It's quite amusing if one day you are sent to a brothel,
01:05:29 or in an empty attic, or in a library,
01:05:32 to consult the "Petit Lavis".
01:05:34 The manual questions the reader, the little schoolchild,
01:05:37 saying, "But who do you prefer?
01:05:40 The old, vicious, evil Caesar, or the arrogant Caesar,
01:05:46 or the one who is valiant, who tries to build, etc.,
01:05:51 who is towards Saint-Géthory?"
01:05:53 And then, saying, "You see, he's trying to do things,
01:05:57 would you too be able to defend your homeland?"
01:06:00 These questions are asked.
01:06:02 I do it by memory, but it's like that.
01:06:04 And so a little child who, after the defeat of 1870,
01:06:09 reads in his school manual, in which he learns to read,
01:06:12 in which he learns the history of his country.
01:06:14 The little Breton, the little Occitan, the little Auvergnat,
01:06:17 the little one from the North, the little Schtick learns his history.
01:06:20 Who are we asking these questions to?
01:06:22 You too, would you be a true Gaul?
01:06:25 When we look at the Eastern borders,
01:06:29 and the Lorraine space, and the Alsatian space that must be reconquered,
01:06:34 we have something that forges a revanchist spirit,
01:06:37 which we find clearly illustrated, but in this way.
01:06:42 And so I say, until 1950, our ancestors, the Gauls,
01:06:46 the first image, I believe, also in memory, is that of Nolmen.
01:06:50 So we see, and we find the druid, and we find these elements there.
01:06:55 So we have almost the elements that will be in the scene of Asterix the Gaul,
01:07:03 of Derso and Goscinny, whose class book it was.
01:07:08 So you see, there is a transmission.
01:07:11 Today we consider that Asterix and Obelix is a caricature of the Gauls,
01:07:18 but in truth they were rather close to what was said at the time.
01:07:22 Yes, exactly.
01:07:24 There is both the spirit, the big strong, the little stubborn, etc., the brawler side.
01:07:31 Of course, the data of archaeological land did not exist,
01:07:36 but the descriptions were there, including the banquet at the end of each album,
01:07:41 it is something that is described in the texts,
01:07:44 so that Derso and Goscinny redesigned it,
01:07:46 and which is a Gaulish reality,
01:07:49 and a reality that today we find in archaeological documentation.
01:07:55 So yes, in Asterix, we also have, when we see the drafts of Asterix and Obelix,
01:08:03 there is still an album that will appear in the fall,
01:08:06 we are really in something that reinforces, that shares.
01:08:11 It ends with a fight, we are clever, we are smart,
01:08:15 the others are powerful, they are organized, they are aligned,
01:08:19 but we have invention, we have malice.
01:08:22 Before moving on to the archaeological part,
01:08:24 this image of the Gauls today, 70 years after 1950,
01:08:31 this image of the Gauls has evolved a lot,
01:08:34 especially thanks to archaeology,
01:08:36 and yet we still have political discourses that take up these elements of language,
01:08:42 of the refractory Gaul, of our ancestors the Gauls, etc.
01:08:46 How do you explain that this type of spring can still work,
01:08:51 when science has evolved on these issues?
01:08:54 I think that the terms are generic terms,
01:08:58 in which we find ourselves.
01:09:00 Of course, today, when it is used in politics,
01:09:05 we are tired of it and we try to dismantle it,
01:09:10 because we say, historically, it doesn't hold.
01:09:12 But at the limit, we also find it through the Serboise,
01:09:16 we find it through the package of Gauls, etc.
01:09:21 I think it's part of an imaginary,
01:09:23 in a relatively broad vocabulary, that we find ourselves in.
01:09:28 So I don't think it's specifically Gaul.
01:09:32 And then, indeed, from the elite,
01:09:35 it's a bit of a trivial way of addressing the whole population.
01:09:44 I don't think it's something that's clever,
01:09:49 it's something that's broad, to bring adhesion.
01:09:52 It's almost a popular speech, but not populist.
01:09:56 I don't believe it as such.
01:09:59 Of course, today, as soon as it overflows a little bit,
01:10:02 and we see it, you and me, on social networks,
01:10:05 it's immediately dismantled, because we're looking for the little me to dismantle.
01:10:09 When we present it in the context,
01:10:12 we realize that it's still something a little broader.
01:10:15 There is either an ambition of some to unify the populations
01:10:20 coming from different territories, by giving them a shared history.
01:10:24 It's also a way of saying different things about others.
01:10:27 And I think that's it.
01:10:29 So I wouldn't throw the stone too hard,
01:10:33 in the sense that I have the impression that we do it almost all.
01:10:37 The term "Gaulishness" is also used.
01:10:42 I think it's something broad.
01:10:45 It's perhaps a call for a general culture,
01:10:50 because, conversely, there has always been the desire to go further.
01:10:57 We may have forgotten it a little today,
01:11:00 but François Mitterrand, in his great presidential projects in 1981,
01:11:05 brought by Christian Goudinot to Jack Lang,
01:11:10 proposed to set up an archaeological centre
01:11:15 dedicated to Gaulish culture at the top of Mount Morvan, in Bibracte,
01:11:21 a place where Caesar spent a winter and wrote a few pages of the history of the Gaulish war,
01:11:29 and therefore created the archaeological centre of Bibracte in 95.
01:11:33 It's an important element,
01:11:35 because it's a place where students and researchers from different parts of Europe
01:11:41 come together to work and research on the site of Bibracte.
01:11:44 So there is indeed a historical element,
01:11:48 but there is also the fact of valuing a heritage,
01:11:52 and not just a national heritage.
01:11:54 Let's go back to archaeology.
01:11:56 You said a few things about it earlier.
01:11:59 Archaeology, the scientific techniques we have developed,
01:12:02 and especially dating,
01:12:05 are the disciplines that have been fundamental in the evolution of the perception of the Gauls.
01:12:11 We have a historiography that has evolved a lot in recent decades,
01:12:16 especially on these issues.
01:12:18 Can you explain to us the contributions of archaeology to this issue of the Gauls?
01:12:26 Archaeology began to shift the image of the Gauls a little bit
01:12:32 from Napoleon III, I said earlier.
01:12:35 Except that Napoleon III essentially searched for military sites.
01:12:42 So in the end, he goes, it's something that still exists,
01:12:45 some historians or some politicians,
01:12:48 we're going to look for evidence of what's written,
01:12:50 as if archaeology was there to illustrate history.
01:12:53 And so, of course, in Alésia, we find Alésia,
01:12:56 in Gergovy, we find Gergovy,
01:12:58 in Bibracte, we find Bibracte, etc.
01:13:00 Alésia, do we only find Alésia or do we find it elsewhere?
01:13:03 [Laughter]
01:13:05 Listen, I wouldn't go into this debate.
01:13:08 No, no, of course, Alésia was in Lys-Sainte-Renne,
01:13:12 and not elsewhere, indeed.
01:13:19 No, no, it's surprising.
01:13:20 Again, going elsewhere,
01:13:23 it's a bit like looking for the center of the world.
01:13:26 It also existed on Gergovy at one point,
01:13:29 that is, in the end, it's mentioned in history,
01:13:31 so it has to be close to me.
01:13:34 And so we're going to look for historical sites
01:13:41 to document a battle.
01:13:46 But then we're going to have an archaeology
01:13:50 that's going to develop from the 1970s,
01:13:54 and especially from 1980 to 1990,
01:13:56 which is the so-called salvage archaeology,
01:13:59 then preventive archaeology,
01:14:01 so today practiced by INDRAP,
01:14:05 essentially, and territorial collectivities
01:14:08 and other structures,
01:14:11 it's an interesting concept
01:14:16 that allows for the conciliation of two strong actions of the State,
01:14:20 the development of the territory
01:14:22 and the preservation of heritage,
01:14:24 that is, on the highway,
01:14:28 on the TGV, on the houses, on the schools,
01:14:30 on the roundabouts, on State prescriptions,
01:14:33 archaeologists try to collect information.
01:14:36 So we're not going to dig where history tells us to dig,
01:14:40 we're going to dig where the history of tomorrow is built.
01:14:43 And that totally changed the history of the Gaul,
01:14:48 more than other periods, more than Roman antiquity.
01:14:51 Because in the end,
01:14:53 we imagined a Gaul with cities like Alésia,
01:14:58 like Gergovy, like Gibraltar,
01:15:00 and around the forests,
01:15:02 since we were interested in battle sites.
01:15:05 While this preventive archaeology,
01:15:07 which searched along the transects,
01:15:10 allowed us to find roads, fields, quarries, mines,
01:15:15 necropolises, sanctuaries in the north of the Gaul,
01:15:18 and ultimately, each operation
01:15:22 made up the pieces of a puzzle.
01:15:25 And so, I was telling you earlier that the texts were partial,
01:15:30 because we're missing a lot of things,
01:15:32 and were partial because they were written by the conquerors.
01:15:35 Today, we're digging for sites
01:15:38 as if we were visiting new libraries,
01:15:40 which provide archives,
01:15:42 which this time are the archives of the soil,
01:15:44 which allow us to rewrite a new history of the Gauls.
01:15:48 So their economy, their culture, their funeral practices,
01:15:53 and also to write about it,
01:15:55 that's what I'm trying to do in my book,
01:15:57 about the long term.
01:15:58 Not just the time of battle,
01:16:00 but the time of friction,
01:16:02 because at that time, the Gauls,
01:16:04 the Magyars, were inevitably defeated by Caesar.
01:16:07 But if we look at the long term,
01:16:09 at a thousand years,
01:16:11 we see how the Gaulish culture was implemented,
01:16:15 the regional variations of this Gaulish culture,
01:16:18 the way it was implemented on the territory,
01:16:21 the way it was influenced,
01:16:23 what it added, what it took,
01:16:26 and today, archaeology has made it possible to do that.
01:16:29 We were talking earlier about Celtic principalities,
01:16:33 of Vix, of Lavaux, of Bourges, of Levreux,
01:16:38 which were searched by INRA, by the CNRS,
01:16:41 by the university, by the collectivities, by others.
01:16:44 We could mention the discovery in Tintignac
01:16:47 of a votive deposit or a trophy
01:16:50 in which were found extraordinary Gaulic helmets,
01:16:54 we are in Corrèze,
01:16:56 and especially the famous Carnix,
01:16:58 which was cited by the ancient authors,
01:17:00 which are visible on the cauldron of Ock-Gordinstrum,
01:17:03 but of which there are not many examples.
01:17:05 So we find, we document more broadly,
01:17:08 we also have, thanks to the studies of the environmental palace,
01:17:11 we know the Gaulish cultures,
01:17:14 we know the ways of storing cereals.
01:17:16 So you see, it's almost what justifies the Roman interventions.
01:17:22 When we manage to find the spaces of the attic,
01:17:25 the silos, we manage to see that the Gauls
01:17:28 produced more than they consumed,
01:17:31 we see what they were able to export,
01:17:34 and we see what could have arisen in the periods of conflict.
01:17:38 When we see in Coran, when we see in Bibracte
01:17:42 the thousands of Roman amphorae,
01:17:44 we see what interested the Gauls at one point,
01:17:48 we see the documents to which they were addicted,
01:17:51 and we then see what will arouse tensions
01:17:55 in each other.
01:17:56 And it is in this sense that archaeology has deeply renewed
01:18:01 the history of the Gaulish period.
01:18:03 For the older periods, there was no text,
01:18:05 so there was no false debate.
01:18:07 For the Neolithic, there is no Neolithic text,
01:18:09 so everything is based on archaeology,
01:18:12 in a cumulative way, and little by little,
01:18:14 the image is a little clearer.
01:18:16 But for the Gauls, it was not only about
01:18:19 making the image clearer,
01:18:21 but also about reconstructing this image.
01:18:24 To find the pixels and to put them together.
01:18:27 And so today, in the genre of inrap,
01:18:31 and perhaps even more broadly,
01:18:33 we still have a lot of large archaeological sites
01:18:36 around the Gauls that are being worked on,
01:18:40 we are still learning new things every year.
01:18:43 I was, three weeks ago, in the Charentes,
01:18:46 in Iviers, a small village,
01:18:49 where, for the looting of houses,
01:18:53 we came across the inrap currently being searched,
01:18:56 a colleague, Mr. Maguer,
01:19:00 is searching the graves of a hospital.
01:19:03 And that's still extraordinary,
01:19:06 to think that in 2021,
01:19:09 we will discover a city of our national heritage.
01:19:12 This hospital there, in the Charentes, was not known.
01:19:15 And there, we start to attack it by the edge,
01:19:18 by the faubourgs, by the economic areas.
01:19:21 We have the wells, we have the metal production areas.
01:19:25 What I find fascinating is that we discover cities.
01:19:29 The Roman city is under the current city,
01:19:31 the medieval city is under the modern city.
01:19:33 On the other hand, the Gaulish city is still to be searched in our landscape.
01:19:37 A few years ago, we had found a mold,
01:19:40 a hospital that was also new.
01:19:43 We have this element there.
01:19:45 The Gaulish art is still to be defined,
01:19:48 to be seen a little better.
01:19:50 I was talking earlier about this abstract art.
01:19:53 We don't yet know what is called the "Latin art" of which it was born.
01:19:57 In the search of the Avault, which we talked a lot about,
01:20:00 which is located near Troyes,
01:20:03 in the tomb of the Avault, we have Greek objects,
01:20:06 we have Gaulish objects,
01:20:08 and we have Gaulish objects that seem to be schematized by Greek decor.
01:20:14 As if there were Gaulish craftsmen there,
01:20:17 who, in contact with objects that take up elements of Mediterranean artistic grammar,
01:20:24 try to work it in their own way.
01:20:27 So we may have, with the Avault,
01:20:29 I will leave it to the diggers and first of all to Bastien Dubuis,
01:20:33 the care to develop this thesis or to reject it,
01:20:37 we almost have the impression that we have the place
01:20:40 where this Mediterranean art has been transformed into purely Celtic art,
01:20:45 at a relatively high period.
01:20:47 And three days ago, INRAP made a press trip to Artenay,
01:20:52 in the central region,
01:20:54 where we discovered an important Gaulish habitat with statuaries.
01:21:02 And there too, we are still getting a little better.
01:21:04 We knew a few Gaulish statues a few years ago,
01:21:08 but they were statues that had been found out of context,
01:21:11 a bit like today, in the art market,
01:21:14 we see some pieces, but we didn't know the frames.
01:21:17 Today we can find elements of this type.
01:21:22 This week, the monograph of Paul's dig in the Cotes d'Armor,
01:21:29 which is a Gallic aristocratic habitat,
01:21:33 in which we understand, thanks to this exemplary dig
01:21:38 and this publication that impressed me,
01:21:40 Paul's publication of Yves Ménès,
01:21:43 how these Gaulish statues of Paul functioned,
01:21:49 which we all have in mind, these statues with a lyre, etc.
01:21:52 And so they find the place, we see the place of the ancestors,
01:21:56 how it was constituted, and we see the framework in which it developed.
01:22:00 So today, this archaeology gives contexts, ensembles.
01:22:05 It gives a landscape to these objects that were sometimes isolated.
01:22:09 They were said to be beautiful, exotic, barbaric,
01:22:13 but now we have them.
01:22:14 We have words, we have paragraphs, we have chapters in books.
01:22:18 I was talking earlier about the environment,
01:22:21 it's an important element.
01:22:22 For a long time, we talked about the great Gaulish forests,
01:22:25 as if there were only small lighthouses.
01:22:28 It's really the image of Asterix.
01:22:30 Today, thanks to preventive research in particular,
01:22:34 we have been able to make carvings,
01:22:37 to find an evolution, a polynic spectrum,
01:22:41 which allows us to see how vegetation evolved
01:22:45 and therefore the impact of man on its environment.
01:22:48 And so we see at one point how, indeed,
01:22:51 in the Neolithic, at the Bronze Age, but much at the Iron Age,
01:22:54 because there is a demographic outflow,
01:22:56 how the countries are transformed, how they are produced.
01:22:59 And so, it allows us to make an economic story, a social story.
01:23:03 If perhaps the Romans intervene,
01:23:06 it is precisely because there are important economic productions,
01:23:09 these cereals, but it is also perhaps because there is an important demographic outflow
01:23:13 and that these Gaulish populations that have mastered
01:23:16 and who are beginning to know the city,
01:23:18 are beginning to develop, are beginning to be more numerous,
01:23:22 can be disturbing for these Mediterranean merchants.
01:23:26 So we are starting today to see elements,
01:23:29 what we call "problematics",
01:23:32 new questions that allow us to review and rethink things.
01:23:37 To see, indeed, that when Provencia was created in 121 BC,
01:23:47 the Romans have been present for a century.
01:23:50 They are, they are exploiting, there are negotiators who exploit mines.
01:23:53 So we realize that war only makes merchants follow
01:23:57 to guarantee them a pacified space.
01:24:00 And it's the same thing for the Gaulish war,
01:24:02 these weapons only make, in the end, "pacified" in quotation marks,
01:24:07 a space that had become an economic space, an annex for the Romans.
01:24:12 And in all this, I speak with enthusiasm,
01:24:15 because we have the impression every time,
01:24:18 each site is something new, important,
01:24:23 which is a new library for us.
01:24:26 The search for the Vaux is for me the discovery of the century,
01:24:30 but the Moulet Opitum is also important,
01:24:33 the necropolises of the region of Roissy are also extremely important,
01:24:40 the search for the Latte, which I was talking about earlier.
01:24:42 The "Couille de Coran" of my colleague Mathieu Pou
01:24:47 was also extremely rich in teaching on religious and political practices.
01:24:52 The exemplary work done in Gergovie today, Bibract.
01:24:55 So we start today, my almost conclusion will be to say
01:25:02 that if the Gauls are not our ancestors, are not our roots,
01:25:08 in any case today we have enough documents to serve as a benchmark.
01:25:13 We have them everywhere, we know their history,
01:25:15 we know where they went a little too far,
01:25:17 we know how they functioned in terms of nature,
01:25:20 we know how they organized the territory,
01:25:23 and where we come from, it allows us to better inhabit the space in which we are.
01:25:28 And to finish, as today we know that these Gauls
01:25:32 are part of this wider Celtic space,
01:25:37 it is also a way for our "Gaulish ancestors"
01:25:41 to feel more European, because today when we go to Bibract,
01:25:45 we work with people who work on Celtic issues,
01:25:49 but who work in Hungary, who work in Poland, who work in Germany.
01:25:53 And so, in the end, these Gauls who were supposed to be our roots
01:25:59 and give us a momentum to take revenge,
01:26:02 are perhaps also these Gauls who today give us a cultural, scientific vocabulary
01:26:09 to collaborate with neighboring countries.
01:26:11 Among the people who follow us, I imagine there are many who would like,
01:26:16 either who are interested in archaeology or who would like to be interested in archaeology.
01:26:20 Today we are on June 18.
01:26:22 This weekend, June 18 and 19, is also a weekend of European Archaeological Days.
01:26:29 And it is an event that is repeated every year.
01:26:35 Can you tell us a little bit about these European Archaeological Days?
01:26:41 So, the European Archaeological Days is a manifestation of the Ministry of Culture
01:26:47 which entrusts the organization to INRAP to, in the end,
01:26:51 federate and put a spotlight on all archaeological activity at the national level.
01:26:58 So, these three days are the meeting of all citizens with their archaeology.
01:27:05 And what is wonderful about archaeology is that we do not necessarily move towards archaeology.
01:27:13 You just have to go and see next to your home, because there have been preventive searches,
01:27:17 because there have been scheduled searches, because there is a museum.
01:27:21 So, these three days give us the opportunity to go and see places that are open all year round,
01:27:29 the classic museum, but why not, we have to go there,
01:27:33 but also to see the excavation site, which is open in a specific way.
01:27:38 It is almost an ephemeral spectacle, since this preventive site,
01:27:42 in 15 days, in a month, will no longer exist.
01:27:45 So, you just have to go to the European Archaeological Days website,
01:27:51 where we have a map of France, we have this program,
01:27:54 which has enriched nearly 600 events during these three days.
01:27:59 This is the moment when we actually go to these sites.
01:28:04 There are also what are called "backstages",
01:28:07 that is to say that this year we have tried to create or to arouse specific events.
01:28:12 We can go and see the workshop in which the Coscaire cave is being reproduced today,
01:28:17 which will be presented in a few years.
01:28:19 We can go and visit the spaces of the CEDERMF virtually.
01:28:24 We can go to Lesia, etc.
01:28:27 We can see the exhibition on Vintage Historics in Gergovy.
01:28:32 We can go to the community services, we can go to the archaeological sites,
01:28:38 we can host conferences.
01:28:39 So, it's really the multiplication of actions presented on the DGEA website
01:28:45 and close to home.
01:28:47 And it's a direct contact between...
01:28:51 There is no mediation.
01:28:53 There are archaeologists, archaeology actors, researchers in universities,
01:28:59 at the CNRS, what are called "archaeology villages",
01:29:02 places where we have barnum and we introduce ourselves.
01:29:05 We know that this year has been difficult and has followed a year that was extremely difficult.
01:29:11 And almost the DGEA is the moment when we will be able to regain,
01:29:16 to go around Gaul or go as close as possible.
01:29:20 It's also a way, I was talking about it earlier, to have landmarks.
01:29:23 The DGEA is three days, but the archaeological sites are places where we receive,
01:29:28 where we see, where the open doors exist.
01:29:31 L'Inrap co-produces about thirty exhibitions a year,
01:29:35 we hold conferences and our colleagues at the CNRS,
01:29:38 at the university, the collectivities and others share.
01:29:41 Archaeology has two meanings.
01:29:43 It's a science of dreams and it's a science of sharing.
01:29:46 It has two meanings only if we exchange.
01:29:48 So, the DGEA is a way to put a spotlight on,
01:29:51 but then we can find contacts and landmarks like that and enjoy it all year round.
01:29:56 So, long live the DGEA and long live archaeology.
01:29:59 So, for two years, an opening to Europe.
01:30:02 We realized that there too, when we asked our European colleagues
01:30:06 if they wanted to join, there was an extremely strong momentum.
01:30:10 And today we have several dozen countries joining us,
01:30:14 also to open with prestigious sites, the Colosseum in Rome, etc.
01:30:19 With the same momentum.
01:30:20 So, a great European holiday, it exists at least,
01:30:24 it's culture, it's heritage that differentiates us in history
01:30:29 and that brings us together in the way we share it.
01:30:32 And if we want to participate in excavation sites in a more invested way,
01:30:38 can we sign up for sites to spend the summer?
01:30:42 So, in the sites, you go to the Ministry of Culture website,
01:30:46 which regularly updates the sites that are open to volunteers.
01:30:52 And so, we have this list, it's accessible on the internet,
01:30:56 so on culture.fr, and we have all the sites open to volunteers,
01:31:03 and generally it's during the summer, so the students in history, in archaeology,
01:31:07 but also amateurs who want to, in a professional setting,
01:31:12 give their time and take advantage of this space a little bit.
01:31:18 This is also an archaeological site, it's no longer a dig,
01:31:23 that a chief and workers, as in the 19th century,
01:31:26 it's an open-air laboratory in which we need all the skills,
01:31:31 all the energy, so it still exists.
01:31:35 So, there are professional welcomes, there are still sites that doubted
01:31:41 to be able to open this summer, and so, which were authorized late
01:31:46 and which are organized late, so I know that many of my colleagues
01:31:50 from the CNRS, the University of the Ministry of Culture,
01:31:52 are looking for volunteers to come and work today,
01:31:56 so there's no problem.
01:31:58 It's real work, it's a physical, intellectual, cultural,
01:32:06 nice activity, but it requires an investment from everyone.
01:32:12 What do you think of the living history and some initiatives
01:32:19 of archaeological reconstitution? I think of sites like, for example,
01:32:25 Samara, in the Somme department, where we have villages that are
01:32:31 reconstituted, especially Gaulish villages that are reconstituted,
01:32:35 where we try, by gesture, to find what could be artisanal
01:32:40 or other. Can that also bring a new look at the Gauls?
01:32:47 I'm convinced of that. There's both the fact of reifying,
01:32:53 of making objects. When we talk about, earlier I was talking about
01:32:57 Bibracte, Bibracte for a long time was a city under the woods.
01:33:01 That's also fascinating, to imagine that a capital of a large people
01:33:05 like the Edouins could totally disappear, and that today
01:33:09 an urban space can be under the woods. That can make us modest,
01:33:13 when today we talk about the civilization of the city, there are cities
01:33:17 that can disappear under the woods, and that doesn't happen in America,
01:33:22 in Guyana, it happens in the Morvan. And so archaeologists today
01:33:29 make the city come out under the woods. And I'm talking about Bibracte,
01:33:33 because one of the first actions of Bibracte was to try to rebuild
01:33:36 the Murus Gallicus, the Gaulish-style rampart, and so when we arrive
01:33:40 in Bibracte, we see this rampart. And I think it's important,
01:33:43 because the traces left in the ground, which are often hollow,
01:33:48 not very visible, often lack pedagogical virtues.
01:33:53 So the restitution, the 3D imagery, the watercolours, but also
01:33:58 the reconstitutions, I think that makes sense. And then, when we
01:34:02 reconstruct, we have to have the elements, it allows us to find the gestures,
01:34:09 so there is a history of techniques, there is an anthropology of gestures
01:34:12 that is useful, we see that we can be wrong. The Bibracte rampart,
01:34:16 I think, had some problems, and so it was probably more easily
01:34:21 attacked by Caesar when it was reconstructed in the 20th century
01:34:25 than when it was built in the 2nd or 1st century BC.
01:34:28 So we sometimes see that we think in a too simple way,
01:34:33 and that these gestures are more complicated. And so in the case of Samara,
01:34:38 I saw, in particular, the work on siderurgy, we often talk about iron,
01:34:45 there is iron everywhere, the terrestrial iron is the most abundant
01:34:49 iron and mineral on the surface of our soil, so we have the impression
01:34:54 that the iron ore is everywhere, but iron is the metal that we have "tested"
01:35:01 most recently in the history of humanity. There was gold, there was silver,
01:35:05 there was copper, iron comes at the end, because siderurgy, and in particular
01:35:11 the construction of the bas-fourneaux, and the extraction of metal from
01:35:15 the ore, is extremely important and extremely difficult. And so the
01:35:20 restitutions that I saw in Samara are interesting because it allows us to see
01:35:25 the volumes of mitering necessary, which is important, like charcoal.
01:35:30 So this work of experimentation, of history of techniques is important.
01:35:35 There have been cases in the proto-historic navigation, the reconstruction of boats,
01:35:41 Gaul or Greek, the case of the boat, in particular, found in Marseille
01:35:47 during a preventive search, has been reconstructed, and today it is a replica
01:35:51 that sails, so it's interesting. We have the boat, we restore it with a watercolour,
01:35:56 easy when we know how to draw a little, but then when we do it on a scale of 1-1,
01:36:01 that we put it on the sea, that we go in calm places, that we go to complicated places,
01:36:06 it allows us to go a little further and think a little bit.
01:36:10 So all these actions made sense, it also makes it possible to raise awareness
01:36:15 of the public, to question it, and even when there is falsehood, even when there is
01:36:20 an easy restitution, there is inevitably the desire to go and see below.
01:36:25 So I think it's these virtues. We see the restitution of the rampart,
01:36:30 and once we know that it is modern, that it is contemporary, we say to ourselves,
01:36:34 I want to see what it looked like, and so the questioning is easier.
01:36:38 So I don't reject it, we're not talking about the park Asterix,
01:36:43 which I would say is not bad, but it's something else.
01:36:46 In any case, on archaeological sites, restitutions allow us to look at things,
01:36:52 to question ourselves, and to come back to the ground, to this element.
01:37:00 Seeing a ceramic broken on the ground, it makes sense, but on the other hand,
01:37:07 knowing the amount of wood that was necessary to make a series of pottery cook,
01:37:14 that's important, because we also see the ceramics, the technique to hold a oven,
01:37:21 but also the impact of a cooking on the landscape, and that's important.
01:37:26 I have a first question for you from Manius Curius, which is a pretty important question
01:37:32 to start with. Are you rather Team Edu1 or Team Arverne?
01:37:36 That's a tough question. Edu1, historiographically, is the collaborator in the story,
01:37:45 because they were very close to César, so it's not very flattering to say Team Edu1.
01:37:51 So we're going to say Team Arverne, we're still in this thing, we're going to put ourselves
01:37:55 on the side of the Resistance, it's not good. I'm Team Arverne and Team Poulidor,
01:38:00 but it shows that I'm not very young.
01:38:03 Totov is asking us if today we have societal heritages set up by the Gauls.
01:38:08 What is Gaulish to us? So, in the vocabulary, for a long time we said the Gaulish language
01:38:16 has totally disappeared, and today we know, through more in-depth studies,
01:38:25 I was quoting earlier Jacques Lacroix, he just published a little book on the Gaulish vocabulary,
01:38:31 there is a dictionary by someone named Xavier Delamarre, which also gives a list of Gaulish words,
01:38:37 it's not uninteresting. Today, when we talk about a path, when we talk about a cart,
01:38:42 when we talk about a yoke, we speak Gaulish. When we say oak, when we say tree,
01:38:47 we speak Gaulish. When we fish a trout, we speak Gaulish. When we say ambassador,
01:38:52 we speak Gaulish. And when we are surprised not to see halouets anymore, we speak Gaulish too.
01:38:57 So, in a way, we have a Gaulish vocabulary that has been able to touch us as such.
01:39:05 Is it proportionally to other influences, is linguistic heritage important,
01:39:12 or is there just something else?
01:39:14 So, we speak more Latin today when we speak French than Gaulish,
01:39:21 but at one point we tended to deny it, not to see it.
01:39:29 Today, it is a vocabulary of several thousand words that we can feel, that we can feel.
01:39:36 So, there is still an element that is not uninteresting. But no, we speak Roman, if we can.
01:39:43 We really lost Benjamin, we did not win. We speak Roman, we do not speak Gaulish.
01:39:50 Except for a few irreducible Bretons who speak it accidentally by a return from Ireland.
01:39:57 So, sociologically, what would make us Gaulish?
01:40:01 No, I think that's what we were saying earlier, maybe this popular imagery, this imaginary.
01:40:08 No, I don't see these elements that would mark us.
01:40:15 I think it's more in the manufacturing of landscapes, maybe, or things of this element.
01:40:22 This situation of confines, the fact that Gaul is a space, the Finisterre,
01:40:30 for a long time, when we arrived in Gaul, we were at the end of a continent.
01:40:35 And so, maybe it forged landscapes, natures that are a little different,
01:40:41 in geologies, pedologies, environmental relations that are a little different.
01:40:48 So, maybe that's a Gaulish nature.
01:40:51 We have Cliff77 who asks us for some clarification, if you have the answer,
01:40:58 on the place of the woman among the Gauls.
01:41:02 Were they the owners of their houses, a bit like Bonne Mine with its pastry roll?
01:41:07 So, in the place of women in the Gaulish world, there is an effect that should not be taken,
01:41:23 it would be to imagine that these Gauls would have qualities that unfortunately we don't have yet today.
01:41:31 So, we are still in societies, undoubtedly patriarchal, peasant, etc.,
01:41:40 which did not give all the space necessary for women, but that is a wish for today and for tomorrow,
01:41:47 it is not for the Gaulish period.
01:41:48 From a documentation point of view, we have elements that are interesting,
01:41:54 but that are still debrief, because here we are touching sociology, anthropology,
01:41:59 we must be careful.
01:42:01 I was saying earlier that our Fosseens, when they arrive in Marseille, are only boys.
01:42:06 And we have a text that tells us how the city of Marseille was created,
01:42:12 we even have two ancient texts that tell us the legend of the creation of Marseille.
01:42:17 And the two texts tell us that these sailors arrive in this territory, which is occupied by a tribe
01:42:25 called the Sego-Briges, it is a Gaulish term, "sego" means "shining" like "segolene"
01:42:31 and "briga" is the fortress.
01:42:33 So, they don't come across the strong, they don't come across the Gauls,
01:42:36 they come across the Sego-Briges, those who live in the victorious fortress.
01:42:41 So, they go knock on their door, the Gauls, the Greeks, sorry, the Gauls are nice,
01:42:48 they invite them by saying "come in, you have just arrived, settle down,
01:42:52 by the way, tonight we are having a party, we are marrying our daughter".
01:42:56 So, the Gauls are there, they stay for the party, of course, and there we are told
01:43:01 how the daughter is married in the Gauls in this region.
01:43:06 There is a big banquet that is organized, the daughter comes home at the end of the banquet,
01:43:12 takes a glass of wine, goes to a man, gives him the glass, and the man to whom she gives the glass
01:43:20 is the man who becomes her husband.
01:43:23 So, in the legend of the foundation of Marseille, it is the woman who chooses her husband.
01:43:29 And then, of course, we will have understood that the woman is the daughter of the chief of the Gaul village,
01:43:38 that she is very beautiful, and of course we will have understood that the husband she will choose
01:43:42 that day is the chief of the Fossean sailors.
01:43:46 And so, at that moment, the father of the young bride gives a part of his territory
01:43:53 so that she creates a new city, and that's where Marseille will be created.
01:43:58 So, earlier, when I was talking about the Seymages, you see, from an anthropological point of view,
01:44:03 how it goes, there are the youngest who leave the village to create an agglomeration,
01:44:09 and the youngest, it is the woman who chooses the chief with whom she will leave,
01:44:15 and it is her father who gives her a part of his territory.
01:44:18 So, in that sense, we have the impression that the woman is still the one who,
01:44:22 one, chooses the man, two, gives the land. And that is an important element.
01:44:30 Then, archaeology has also shown it, in the case of Vix, the lady who is buried in the tomb,
01:44:38 who probably owns this crater, which can contain a thousand liters of wine,
01:44:44 who owns a torcador, who owns jewels, who owns vases,
01:44:49 the character who is buried there is a woman.
01:44:52 And so we have all the elements to think that she was the head of this principality.
01:44:59 So, there too, it's not nothing.
01:45:01 We have a space of power, a very important space from a geopolitical point of view,
01:45:07 and it is again a woman who is there.
01:45:09 We have the texts that tell us that in inter-ethnic conflicts,
01:45:14 so between Gauls or conflicts between Gauls and Romans,
01:45:19 when it is necessary to say "stop", we stop fighting,
01:45:24 and even today we see it, we see rise in power of conflict,
01:45:28 and in the end we try to find a solution.
01:45:31 The people who find the solution are the women who intervene.
01:45:35 Men fight, there are a few dead, we fight,
01:45:39 and at one point there are women who go there, who start the debate again,
01:45:44 who start the discussion again to calm the game.
01:45:47 So the woman in the Gaulish society sometimes occupies a specific place,
01:45:56 which is original in any case compared to the Mediterranean world,
01:46:00 to such an extent that texts relate to us,
01:46:03 in particular the case of the Legende of Marseille,
01:46:06 or in particular the case of these women who serve as intermediaries.
01:46:10 So, to summarize, Mr. 77's question was simple,
01:46:15 my answer, sorry, is a bit complicated,
01:46:19 but compared to these old societies,
01:46:23 the Gaulish woman should not occupy less space than in other societies,
01:46:30 since others had noticed that the famous Gaulish woman
01:46:35 occupied privileged places that were not what was in the Greco-Roman world.
01:46:40 To please Icarus of the History Applied channel, who loves the Gauls a lot,
01:46:44 I would like to ask this question,
01:46:45 do we know what the Gaulish shoes of the first century BC looked like?
01:46:49 Oh la la, yes, Icarus is passionate about shoes, I saw that.
01:46:54 There must have been a wide variety of shoes,
01:47:01 a red sole for the chic ones and a rope sole for the others.
01:47:06 No, sorry, I think we have, in a strange way, the statuette that we have,
01:47:16 I was talking earlier about the statues of Paul, the statues of Tremuzan,
01:47:20 statues presented last week in Artenay,
01:47:25 statues that give us elements on the clothes,
01:47:30 so the port des brais, his pants,
01:47:32 we even have elements of leather in the middle of France,
01:47:37 we have statues with protections,
01:47:40 cardiophylaxes, low leathers, etc.
01:47:44 But the statues I was talking about earlier
01:47:46 are all statues that were on the ground
01:47:50 and by economy for which the feet were not represented.
01:47:54 So, one, from an archaeological point of view,
01:47:57 but I don't know Gaulish shoes,
01:48:03 bigre, and on representations,
01:48:07 I don't think it's the detail that is most represented
01:48:10 in our comrade Icarus, a very interesting research program,
01:48:15 and on the other hand, for the anecdote in Latres, near Montpellier,
01:48:19 I was able to search the streets,
01:48:21 and especially in a corner of a slightly muddy street,
01:48:24 in which a cart had hit a bump,
01:48:27 and so, as it had hit a bump, once the cart had left,
01:48:30 they had added sand and gravel,
01:48:32 which, as a result, had kept the footprints,
01:48:35 so we were able to find the traces of the shoes,
01:48:37 the tracks of the wheel,
01:48:39 and we were able to find the tracks of the feet,
01:48:41 but so, carefully, the Gaul who left these tracks,
01:48:44 to annoy me, and then by pragmatism,
01:48:47 had removed his shoes, so, here it is.
01:48:49 The absence of an answer is not an answer.
01:48:51 Emulator of layers, nice calambour,
01:48:54 who asks us, according to Yann Le Boeck,
01:48:57 researcher and specialist of the Roman army,
01:48:59 there would have been between one and three million deaths
01:49:02 for the Gallo-Roman wars, is it likely?
01:49:06 So, if Mr. Le Boeck, who is indeed an extremely savvy colleague,
01:49:11 gives these figures, it means that they must be good,
01:49:15 especially since the fork from one to three
01:49:18 still leaves some margin.
01:49:20 But, indeed, it was a bloody war.
01:49:24 It was a bloody war.
01:49:27 So, we have, indeed, important battles.
01:49:31 We have...
01:49:33 So, without going back to the fork
01:49:36 that Mr. Le Boeck gives,
01:49:39 and which is the right fork,
01:49:42 the guy is really careful,
01:49:44 however, you should know that this fork
01:49:48 is probably given from the reading of the texts.
01:49:52 And, there too, César is someone who does not lie,
01:49:57 but probably someone who exaggerates.
01:49:59 Because, indeed, when you put a fight,
01:50:02 if you take a week to evict three people
01:50:07 and you send this report to Rome,
01:50:10 you are told that it cost us dearly,
01:50:12 and then, in addition, we take into account these deaths.
01:50:16 We still see it today, when I say that,
01:50:18 sorry to bring up the present elements,
01:50:21 but today, when we have a war,
01:50:23 the moment it ends,
01:50:24 it's the moment when we feel like we've lost too many men.
01:50:27 Even today, when there is a conflict,
01:50:29 we unfortunately learn from time to time,
01:50:32 there were three deaths, five deaths, ten deaths,
01:50:34 it weighs on the minds.
01:50:36 So, César, he necessarily realized
01:50:40 the deaths in his troops,
01:50:43 and probably that it could arouse emotion.
01:50:47 So, he was interested in saying that,
01:50:49 in fact, they were many,
01:50:51 and that when he lost ten,
01:50:53 in fact, they lost a hundred.
01:50:55 So, the fork of Jan Le Boeck is undoubtedly the right one,
01:50:58 but on the other hand,
01:50:59 that César didn't inflate the numbers a little bit,
01:51:02 because to defeat Saint-Pérignan, etc., etc.,
01:51:06 against Vincent Bloir, it's not impossible.
01:51:09 To close this very interesting live,
01:51:13 and I thank you again for agreeing to come tonight on Twitch
01:51:17 to talk to the more than 400 people who are connected at the moment,
01:51:23 would you have some books to advise to the people who are listening to us tonight,
01:51:30 or who will listen to us in podcast very soon,
01:51:34 a little bit everywhere, or on YouTube,
01:51:36 books about the Gauls,
01:51:38 except your book "The Gauls with the naked eye",
01:51:41 which I show to the camera, which is right there,
01:51:44 look, and it's beautiful,
01:51:46 and it's Dominique behind, so, there you go.
01:51:48 Would you have other references to advise us?
01:51:52 So, in the references,
01:51:55 a few years ago, there was a beautiful exhibition in the city of Villette,
01:52:02 for which my two colleagues, Mathieu Pou and François Malrin,
01:52:10 published a well-illustrated catalogue that brings together specialists on the Gauls,
01:52:16 so this book seems essential to me, a bit like an opening.
01:52:20 Two years ago, with Jean Guillen, we published a book called "La Proto-Histoire de la France",
01:52:28 which also gives interesting elements, of course,
01:52:34 which allows a little bit of this framework.
01:52:36 Bibract regularly publishes publications that give strong elements.
01:52:43 I would tend to say that we should not reject, far beyond, "The War of the Gauls" by César,
01:52:50 and that being a good proto-historian is also reading "The War of the Gauls".
01:52:56 There is a new, not a translation, but a new writing that was published two years ago,
01:53:03 at the door of elements that are not negligible, it is in the beautiful letters.
01:53:09 The works of Christian Goudinot, which are written in a simple, effective way,
01:53:17 and always with an extremely vivid intelligence, are, in my opinion, to be consulted,
01:53:25 in particular the dossier "Versingétorix", "Regards sur la Gaulle",
01:53:31 which is an extremely important collection, which can be seen as such,
01:53:36 and then Jean-Louis Bruneau, for a few years,
01:53:40 has been the specialist in publications on the Gaulles, on Versingétorix,
01:53:45 they remain important documents, and recently Laurent Olivier published a book
01:53:54 on the country of the Celts, and another on César versus Versingétorix,
01:54:01 which are, for me, models in the genre.
01:54:04 So, there you have it, publications exist, which each time cross historical,
01:54:10 anthropological and archaeological data.
01:54:12 And sorry, because it's a friend, and because these works are disseminated efficiently,
01:54:17 the works of Stéphane Fichtel on the Gaulish peoples, on the Gaulish city,
01:54:22 it is to use them too much, to the extent, I hope, that I had forgotten to quote them,
01:54:29 he says, to catch up.
01:54:31 Anyway, if you are interested in archaeology, you see, we saw it through these two hours of live,
01:54:39 it's exciting, and it allows to discover a lot of things,
01:54:42 do not hesitate, this weekend, June 19-20, it's the European Archaeology Days,
01:54:49 a weekend that takes place every year, it can be a first approach for you,
01:54:55 for your kids too, if you have the opportunity to take them,
01:54:58 it can be cool to have this first approach of the world of archaeology with them,
01:55:02 thanks to these European Archaeology Days,
01:55:04 and we will put the links in the chat, in the description, wherever we can.
01:55:09 Thank you, Dominique, again, for accompanying us tonight,
01:55:15 it was really cool from you, and thank you to INRAP too.
01:55:19 Thank you all for being present,
01:55:22 thank you Benjamin for the framework you offer for these exchanges,
01:55:28 and therefore, meet on the sites, during these European days,
01:55:35 but also throughout the year, and in 2022 INRAP will celebrate its 20th anniversary,
01:55:40 so I hope there too, that we can all exchange on the ground,
01:55:44 in conference rooms, in exhibition places,
01:55:48 but also through works on archaeology,
01:55:52 see also the bibract.fr,
01:55:56 gives a lot of information on the Gauls, the internet site of the Archaeological Center,
01:56:00 INRAP.fr also gives elements,
01:56:03 and then there is an association of Celtic archaeology amateurs,
01:56:09 called the AFF, and so I think it's aff.org,
01:56:13 which brings together a lot of elements on archaeology.
01:56:17 The documentation exists, but it's important to take the right channel,
01:56:21 because there are also sometimes a little strange things,
01:56:25 new age and others, not to mention the false sites of Alésia.
01:56:29 Good evening to all again, thank you Dominique, and see you soon.
01:56:35 Thank you very much.
01:56:37 [Applause]
01:56:41 [Silence]

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