• 2 years ago
Transcript
00:00 So despite the beard and the aura of smugness, I don't actually have any messianic pretensions.
00:07 I've never forgiven anyone for anything in my life.
00:09 But I'm on my way to Heathrow to fly to America to make a one-hour special about why we believe things.
00:15 I'm not known in America, so I can use five different fictional names to approach five different influential people
00:22 who promote various paranormal belief systems.
00:25 And using my skills of magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship,
00:31 I want to see if I can convince them that I have special abilities in their particular fields.
00:36 And the idea is to see how easy or hard it will be to get them to endorse me.
00:41 [Music]
01:10 [Music]
01:19 Whether we believe in psychic ability, crystal energy, alien abduction, talking to the dead or Christianity,
01:25 we are rightly or wrongly buying into a very powerful belief system.
01:29 Now I'm not interested in attacking anyone's beliefs, but I think as intelligent human beings
01:33 we should be prepared to question our beliefs and the people who encourage us to make life decisions
01:38 based on the information they give us. And that's what this show's about.
01:42 [Music]
01:45 In this show, you'll see me pose as Daniel Owen, the psychic who can see what you're drawing when you're in a different room.
01:51 James Lawrence, who can convert you to Christianity with a touch.
01:56 Robert Frawley, the new age entrepreneur with a machine which records your dreams.
02:01 Richard Collins, the alien abductee who is left with an ability to sense your medical history.
02:06 And Fraser Sherwell, who talks to the dead.
02:10 I'll meet a high profile expert in each of those five areas and I'll try and get each to endorse me as the real thing.
02:18 If at any point they ask me if it's a trick, I'll say yes and I'll own up.
02:22 But the question is, will they ask?
02:25 [Music]
02:30 You're sharp enough to question what I do because you know I deal in illusion.
02:34 It's all about questioning. But there are beliefs we're not encouraged to question
02:38 and these are often the beliefs upon which we're asked to make important life decisions.
02:42 These are the areas where we should test and look for misinformation.
02:46 And where the big names in those fields should apply the same rigor.
02:49 Because often we're making those life decisions based on the information we get from those people.
02:54 [Music]
03:03 The psychics are the first people I have to try and convince.
03:06 It is making me a bit nervous because I know I can't give a performance as I normally would.
03:12 It feels like someone who's learned some sleight of hand magic going into cheat at a game of poker with top poker players.
03:23 And again, if the psychics ask me if it's real, I will tell them no and I'll come clean.
03:29 Sedona is a whole town based on circular belief systems.
03:33 A quarter of the people here think they're psychic.
03:36 And four million people a year come to visit this self-proclaimed spiritual Mecca
03:40 and sample its energies and its vortices and its other quite possibly imaginary constructs.
03:45 The town is a mixture of undeniable beauty, tackiness and big business.
03:50 [Music]
03:53 This is the Sedona Creative Life Center.
03:56 This is where you come to be taught psychic ability.
03:59 It has a massive profile. People come from all over the world to attend its famous workshops and seminars.
04:05 We're going to talk to a woman called Abby Hayden.
04:07 She's a very well respected and published teacher here.
04:10 And she'll be accompanied by some other people from this very successful center who also teach such abilities.
04:16 These are the people who encourage you to be psychic and transform your life.
04:22 These respected psychics have been told that I, Daniel Owen, developed psychic abilities after being struck by lightning ten years ago.
04:30 The remote viewing test is a classic psychic demonstration and this is what I'm going to replicate,
04:35 except I don't have any psychic abilities.
04:38 There's a lot of teaching. A lot of people come from all over the world.
04:41 But how do you begin to go about teaching something like developing a psychic ability?
04:46 How do you do that?
04:48 It's basically reminding people they already have these gifts and to kind of wake it up within them to help them see their own inner gifts.
04:56 I imagine if you're giving advice to people that they may make life decisions based on the information that you're giving them,
05:03 for me that's quite a frightening responsibility. I don't know. How would you know that that's authentic?
05:08 My motto is if someone comes and asks me to do something, that means I can do it, whether I've ever done it or not.
05:15 So having that attitude, just being open and knowing that this person was guided to me
05:22 and I must be able to give them the right information has really helped me to develop a lot of things.
05:29 For my demonstration of remote viewing, Abby will draw pictures in another room without anyone seeing her
05:34 and I'll try and pick up what she's drawing.
05:37 When psychics do this as a test, the results are pretty poor. It's roughly what you get for guessing.
05:43 Now, what is it you want me to draw?
05:45 I'm going to get you to draw a picture. All I say is keep it relatively simple.
05:49 Please don't make it too detailed because then it gets messed up.
05:52 You shout "ready" when you're done, focus on the picture, step into it a little bit and imagine that it's vivid and real.
05:59 That really helps me and I will try again. I'll get these guys to write down whatever impressions I get.
06:04 Abby's isolated in the other room and no one can see whatever she decides to draw.
06:08 She hasn't been prepared for this and she can draw whatever she likes.
06:11 Yet I will try and tell what she draws from the next room.
06:15 There's no screens or anything up that could be giving me any information.
06:18 I'm not wearing any earpieces or anything like that. Forgive me, forgive me.
06:21 It's important that people know that.
06:23 Three-dimensional objects that we can see with our physical eyes.
06:26 Absolutely. OK, Abby, can you hear me?
06:29 Yeah.
06:30 Excellent. All right. Whenever you're ready, I'd like you to draw a picture.
06:34 Please make it nice and large and clear on one whole sheet of paper.
06:38 OK.
06:41 [music]
06:51 I'm starting to concentrate on it now.
06:54 [music]
07:00 OK, I would say...
07:06 It's just really simple. This is essentially quite a simple shape.
07:10 It feels quite abstract. It doesn't feel like a person or a thing or anything recognised, but I think it's quite abstract.
07:15 Just give me a minute.
07:17 OK.
07:18 I would say it's a...
07:23 You know what it feels like? It feels like a religious thing, like a cross.
07:29 It feels like a tree or a shrub, something like that.
07:34 So, yeah, something more organic in there, too.
07:37 So, I'll get the cross, I think, and the tree, I think.
07:43 Tree or shrub.
07:45 OK, so that's the first one.
07:47 OK, all right, do a second one.
07:49 OK.
07:50 This is...
07:54 It feels like something...
07:56 Like a banana.
08:02 Like a banana. All right.
08:05 OK, so, again, you just let different images just sail through your mind.
08:10 Don't go overboard on detail. Please keep it simple.
08:13 All right.
08:15 It's on water.
08:17 It's that rocking, a rocking motion on water.
08:21 Another one.
08:23 A warm... If you put, like, a warm face, so it may be the sun.
08:29 Yeah, OK, I think we're done.
08:33 All right, excellent.
08:35 Sit down where you were before.
08:36 This is what we got for number one.
08:38 Simple, abstract, I've got a cross, and then I put a tree or a shrub.
08:41 Right. OK.
08:42 Is the next one a banana?
08:45 Yes.
08:48 A big banana.
08:51 A big banana.
08:53 Because I was thinking banana, and then, as you'll see, what comes out after I draw it is another thing, but...
08:59 OK, so the next one we put... I put... What did you... Water.
09:03 Something moving on water.
09:04 Water moving on water.
09:05 And there we go.
09:07 That I could draw.
09:09 OK, well, next one.
09:11 Yeah, face, personal, sun, warm.
09:15 Oh, God.
09:17 Incredible.
09:18 It's amazing.
09:19 I'm just going to take my job.
09:22 Well, the first thing I did was I looked in his eyes when I met him, as a professional, and what I saw was sincerity.
09:28 I think he is qualified. He does have ability.
09:32 I would recommend him to some place because, you know, we've kind of witnessed that he does have ability.
09:38 As a person who trains psychics, I would have them watch that film and say, "This is how you do it."
09:45 Well, my first endorsement from some leading professionals. They seemed really happy to accept me as qualified.
09:50 Now it was time to head east.
09:53 People's beliefs are not the issue. It's the way we relate to those beliefs, you know.
09:58 And certainly the people out there who have the beliefs, the people who are getting that information and forming those beliefs and living those lives,
10:04 they're not the people to have a go at. They're not the people to laugh at.
10:07 You know, it is the people who are putting the beliefs out there. It's the industries behind them that are worth just taking a look at.
10:15 Coming up, I'll be James Lawrence, who can bring about Christian conversion through a touch,
10:20 and Robert Frawley, who's built a miraculous dream catcher which runs on crystal energy.
10:25 It's been a successful start, but will I convince a sharp businesswoman and an evangelical pastor that I'm real, and will they endorse me?
10:34 The Journey in America continues as I present fictional identities to respected and influential figures behind powerful belief systems
10:42 and see how easily they'll endorse me as the real thing.
10:46 I used to be a full-on happy, clappy Christian until my mid-twenties,
10:50 and then I started to realise that my belief was just as prone to circular logic and self-fulfilment as all the New Age nonsense which bugged me.
10:57 And then recently I realised that I was a bit of a fan of the Christian faith,
11:01 and all the religious nonsense which bugged me.
11:04 And then reading the New Testament as a historical document finally rid me of any religious belief.
11:08 But if I can convert people through non-spiritual methods, how many other people are out there doing the same thing in their own way?
11:15 And this isn't about criticising anyone's belief, but I'm amazed at how quickly and easily we can be made to adopt a belief
11:22 that we're told is universally true and part of our identity.
11:28 I've come to encourage either high-energy crowd activity or candlelit monotony to invoke a suggestible state amongst the congregation.
11:36 Many revivalist preachers seem to have a magical touch that brings the power of the Lord into a person.
11:41 People are reported to suddenly fall back as if they've been swept off their feet by the Holy Spirit.
11:46 I've come to Rhode Island as James Lawrence, who, after a dramatic religious awakening,
11:50 has been left with the ability to convert people with a touch.
11:54 I'm feeling a little bit anxious about this one, but it makes it more exciting.
11:57 But it's great. You know, will they say to me, even with all of that, will they say, "Is this just a trick?"
12:02 If they say, "Is it a trick?" I will say, "Yes," and I will thank them so much for actually asking that question.
12:09 So I'm here to meet a guy called Kurt Nordheim, who's a very successful, very affable professional minister and author here in New England.
12:19 And his speciality is in evangelising to immigrant communities.
12:23 Let me read you here a quote from the ministry.
12:25 "The huge influx of foreign people groups into this nation can be viewed in two ways.
12:30 They can be seen as a threat to our way of life, both spiritually and culturally,
12:33 or they can be viewed as an opportunity for evangelism."
12:36 My understanding of evangelism is that it's done in relationships.
12:45 So, in other words, I'm not going to leave the building here tonight,
12:48 and when I go to the hotel, start talking immediately to the person behind the desk and saying,
12:55 "Do you know Jesus Christ?" or something like that. I'm not going to do that.
12:59 I try to form relationships through whatever means that I can,
13:04 joining a racquetball club, playing tennis, inviting them home for dinner, that type of thing.
13:12 Will Kurt believe in my gift, and will he endorse me?
13:15 My name is James Lawrence. None of you will know me.
13:19 You wouldn't know me if you were British either.
13:22 The people you see here responded to an advertisement to come to a discussion on spirituality.
13:28 They're almost all atheists and non-believers. I shall convert them with just a touch.
13:33 You don't believe in anything? I mean, are you kind of like...
13:38 I'm believing in God, I'm believing in angels, I'm believing in guardian angels,
13:43 or godmother, you know, ghosts, you know, relatives coming back from the dead.
13:48 Do you receive special messages to make you feel better?
13:51 I really don't believe in those things either.
13:54 Everyone in my family was a different sort of religion.
13:57 My grandmother was a devout Catholic. My grandfather was Protestant.
14:01 My mother was Mormon. All those things tried to get forced on me,
14:06 and I just never... I don't know.
14:08 Then just be honest, okay?
14:10 Mm-hmm.
14:12 As skeptical? Be honest.
14:33 I...
14:36 I guess I kind of understand the feeling that they were talking about.
14:45 Yeah? In what way?
14:48 That...
14:51 My grandma always used to tell me that when she was praying before she went to bed,
14:56 when she got up in the morning, she always felt like she got...
15:00 She felt her inner hug, and...
15:05 She said it just kind of felt like two arms wrapping itself around your heart,
15:10 around your lungs, just... an inner hug.
15:14 And...
15:19 I guess I kind of understand a little...
15:23 a little more what she was talking about.
15:29 Some people have left because they were uncomfortable with the instant conversion.
15:34 And I'm just going to go back in in a minute and see if anyone's left,
15:37 because I want to carry on. I want to see if I can do this.
15:40 But for the moment, it's a bit of drama.
15:42 We had a bit of an interruption there,
15:44 because I think some people got a little bit uncomfortable with that and have left.
15:48 So if it's all right, we'll just carry on with you guys. Thank you for staying.
15:51 Fair enough. So just want to carry on talking about what we were talking about.
15:54 Are you feeling all right? You still...
15:56 It's... Like I said, it's just kind of a weird feeling.
16:00 Do you believe in God? Do you think this would be a good thing to do?
16:04 Or do you think it's just self-deception?
16:06 I think if it works for them, you know,
16:08 I'm not going to discourage people from their beliefs,
16:11 but how could you believe or worship in a higher being,
16:17 you know, that they choose to call God,
16:19 that's supposed to be loving and supposed to be merciful and kind,
16:24 you know, and then they talk about free will and this and that.
16:27 Well, it wasn't a three-year-old's free will to die of, you know, leukemia
16:31 and things of that nature.
16:33 That's what makes me just don't buy it.
16:35 Okay. All right.
16:38 Are you happy for me to try this with you two?
16:40 Yeah, I'm all right, yeah.
16:41 Yeah? Okay. Can you just come around here for me?
16:44 I mean, if you'd just stand there for me, but face...
16:49 Let me just put you there like that.
16:52 Okay. Just put your feet together for me.
16:55 And I want you to know you're not going to hurt yourself or anything like that, all right?
17:05 I will catch you when this happens.
17:08 I just want you to face that way and, you know, just let whatever happens, happens.
17:15 I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to do.
17:17 Okay?
17:19 Okay. Stay there for a minute.
17:42 Sit up for a second.
17:44 Talking very skeptically a moment ago about any kind of belief in God,
17:51 you said as though, you know, you couldn't believe in that at all.
17:54 How do you feel now about that? Be honest.
17:56 Be honest.
18:02 I think...
18:06 I think I'm going to die.
18:09 I think that I would be...
18:15 I don't want to call myself ignorant, but I would be...
18:20 I wouldn't be doing the right thing due to what just happened and occurred to me
18:25 if I didn't, you know, think that there was a possibility that maybe my belief
18:30 and maybe my opinions aren't correct.
18:36 Okay. So, you're saying you are now ready to accept the idea that there's a God
18:43 that you wouldn't be prepared to accept beforehand?
18:45 I'm not putting words in your mouth. I just want you to clarify for me.
18:48 Due to especially what just occurred with me, yeah, there is reason to explore.
18:56 Excellent. Okay, thank you. Just sit back down for me, Sean. Thank you very much.
19:05 In fact, I'll tell you what, could you all just stand up for me?
19:09 Alright. Hands up if you believe in God at this moment.
19:18 Apart from the people I've just spoken to. Put your hands up if you believe in God. Be honest.
19:22 Okay. That's one of you. Great, thank you.
19:26 Apart from the people I've just spoken to, so, yeah, alright. Thank you.
19:31 Now put your feet together. Just all of you, just close your eyes for me.
19:35 So there is something here in this room. There is something here.
19:38 And as I talk to you now, I want you, whatever you imagine there,
19:41 whatever that spirit is, just to feel it in this room.
19:44 And feel it like a pressure moving into you.
19:48 Moving into you around your heart, your chest and your shoulders,
19:53 against your face and your eyes.
19:56 And as I talk to you, I want you to feel that moving into you.
19:58 And not to fight it, but to welcome it.
20:01 And to embrace it. And to allow it to move you in whatever way.
20:05 And as I talk to you, just let that get stronger. Let that feeling get stronger.
20:09 And stronger.
20:12 And really feel it now, just moving into you.
20:15 Moving into you.
20:17 One at a time, just feeling it right. Just embrace it. Just let it fall in. Good.
20:23 Do you believe in God now?
20:25 Yes? Nice and clear. Do you believe in God? Be honest.
20:28 Yes, I do.
20:29 Do you believe in God?
20:30 Yes, I do.
20:31 Do you believe in God?
20:32 Yes.
20:33 Yes? Be honest with me, alright? Be honest with me. Do you believe in God?
20:37 Yes, I do.
20:38 Do you believe in God?
20:40 Yes, very much so.
20:42 Do you believe in God?
20:43 There is something.
20:45 There is something. Do you believe in God?
20:47 Definitely.
20:48 And you?
20:49 Yes.
20:50 Yes.
20:52 Thank you.
20:54 The End
20:58 Kurt left with half the group after the first conversion, but is still impressed.
21:03 I wondered if there's not something just in his body, an energy, an electrical impulse that doesn't zap people.
21:16 I cannot explain the warm hug that the one young woman experienced, except that maybe that is God speaking to her, that He loves her.
21:30 So I do know people who've come to Christ with a radical conversion that is very different from most conversions, but nothing quite like James.
21:47 He was impressed, but to his credit, wanted to meet again before he'd offer a full public endorsement.
21:54 Yeah, the endorsement's important because the ability to show that even as a charlatan, you can quite easily ingratiate yourself into that world and be part of that fiction, if it is fiction.
22:11 My next stop is Las Vegas, a city based on false hopes.
22:16 I'm here as Robert Frawley, a man who has the power to tell people's dreams.
22:22 There are no clocks in the casinos, no sense inside of whether it's day or night, and all the hotel rooms are really bare, so there's nothing to do but to keep on gambling.
22:32 It's a hypnotic scam, but Vegas is the place to come and try and catch your dreams.
22:36 And in a way, a lot of these new age industries are similar.
22:39 A lot of pretty colours and saccharine that hide really nothing but false hope.
22:46 In a way, it's a bit like this. Looks like it does something, but it doesn't. All it does is it just turns a green light on and off.
22:53 That's all it does. This is my new electronic dream catcher.
22:57 Despite the fact it's just a battery in a pretty box, can I convince this next lady that it records her dreams and then replays them to me?
23:10 So we're going to go and visit a lady called Lorraine de Felice, who is very successful in the new age industries.
23:17 She's a magazine proprietor, an author, and she owns some of the top new age websites.
23:23 She's very sweet, but she is massively influential.
23:27 I'm going to present her with a miracle. How sceptical will she be?
23:31 And if she asks me if it's real, I will tell her no.
23:34 Lorraine has been using the dream catcher now for five days.
23:38 She believes I'm developing it as a product, and I'm after feedback and publicity for it.
23:43 Will she believe it's real and endorse me to her public?
23:46 Tell us a bit about your background, about the esoteric world news that you looked after.
23:50 Give us a little history of who you are.
23:52 In 1979, I decided to start the esoteric world.
23:56 It was a newspaper, and eventually it became a magazine.
24:00 And I printed thousands a month.
24:04 I had thousands of members. Each member got a copy of what the other sent in.
24:09 Now we have the Internet, which we didn't have ten years ago.
24:13 And it's doing very well, isn't it?
24:15 We've got thousands of pages on the Internet.
24:17 Every metaphysical subject, I think, probably the best, biggest metaphysical site on the net.
24:23 Do you feel influential in that position?
24:25 It has changed the lives of a lot of people.
24:28 I'd like to talk about the dream machine that you have.
24:32 And just so that people at home understand what's happened previously,
24:35 we delivered to you one of these machines, and you were given instructions to use it for--
24:40 you've had it for five nights, I think.
24:42 Correct.
24:43 Okay. That's the machine itself.
24:46 And this is the pillowcase, which plugs into the dream catcher, and you've been sleeping on this.
24:52 I asked you just to remember whatever dreams that you had during the night,
24:56 because, you know, we do tend to forget them so I asked you to.
24:58 And obviously for the record, there's nothing that you've been asked to talk about.
25:02 You haven't told any of us or anything like that, because that's quite important.
25:06 Great. I'll try and do this now.
25:08 I'm thinking, actually, if possible, perhaps we could swap chairs.
25:11 Would it be all right if I use your chair just so I can have a slightly more comfortable--
25:15 I tell Lorraine that the box contains special new age crystalline technology.
25:19 But as you know, the box contains just an ordinary battery
25:22 and does nothing other than turn the light on and off with a switch.
25:25 What I'm about to do works through words and imagination,
25:28 not crystals or the ridiculous pads I'm about to put on.
25:31 It's perfectly safe to use. I mean, there wouldn't have been any--
25:34 There are a couple of-- not side effects, but unusual things that I've noticed when people use this.
25:42 One is that because of the way the dreams are stored,
25:46 you may have been aware of actually dreaming less than you normally would.
25:51 When I was in a deep sleep, that's what happened.
25:54 In the light sleep, I started dreaming--
25:57 You may have had all sorts of flashes and images.
25:59 --the minute I laid down.
26:00 That's right. That's very common, and that's great.
26:02 The other side of it is that you may find it tends to take the color out of the dreams.
26:09 I always heard of people who dreamed in black and white, and I never did that.
26:13 I had two nights where they were black and white.
26:16 It's promising. Let's try this.
26:22 These are four pads which I'm going to attach to my temples and forehead.
26:37 Do feel free to talk or respond, but just maybe don't ask me any questions.
26:42 If that's all right, I'll--
26:45 [music]
27:00 Okay, so there's movement.
27:03 Something--things moving across a field of vision.
27:08 Wheels of some sort.
27:10 Like large wheels, like cart wheels or something like that.
27:20 Quite eccentrically dressed black man.
27:30 Also going to put white woman.
27:36 I'm going to say black man, although weirdly I feel it can be a white woman as well, which is odd.
27:40 But black man, and he's--there's wildlife around him.
27:45 Quite eccentrically dressed. There's life around him.
27:47 Animals, even. Quite large animals.
27:52 Like big dogs or something like that, or some animals around him.
28:03 Binoculars?
28:04 Yes.
28:10 A bird of some sort?
28:12 Yeah.
28:13 Quite a large bird.
28:16 Quite piercing eyes, or at least one eye very piercing, very clear.
28:21 Yes.
28:23 Is that--
28:24 That was another dream.
28:25 Some white buildings, black sky, white buildings.
28:27 Yes, exactly.
28:28 Very strong.
28:30 That was one of the black and white dreams, yes.
28:32 Yeah.
28:33 I've never seen black and white dreams.
28:36 And that was--maybe that's why that's come last.
28:39 Okay, I don't think there's anything else. I think that's it.
28:43 That was amazing what he did.
28:45 I'm just--I'm amazed.
28:47 You know, that was my private secret dreams, and he saw them.
28:52 Okay, I really would like Robert to come on the radio program.
28:55 I'd like to interview him.
28:57 I think the people around the world should know about this.
28:59 Anything you want to say about the dream machine, you can--or Robert can write it,
29:04 and we publish it all, you know, in print, and it'll still be on the Web, too.
29:08 Lorraine is convinced.
29:10 The next day I got a call from the radio station asking me to come on and talk about the machine.
29:15 I declined.
29:18 After the break, I shall be Richard Collins, an alien abductee who can sense your medical history,
29:24 and Fraser Sherwell, who talks to the dead.
29:27 Will our final two professionals believe in my fictitious abilities, and will they endorse me?
29:36 The journey continues as I visit influential figures behind modern belief systems and seek their endorsement.
29:46 We're on our way to see Anne Druffel, who is a very prolific writer and speaker in the whole UFO/alien abduction area.
29:53 Her last book she wrote was called "How to Defend Yourself Against Alien Abduction," which I've been reading quite avidly.
29:58 She is very old, but we have to put that to one side.
30:02 Remember that she spent the last 50 years writing and speaking on these subjects.
30:08 She's been told that Richard Collins--that's me--was abducted by aliens 10 years ago
30:13 and was given an ability to sense people's medical history.
30:16 Many people do claim to have been left with similar abilities after abductions,
30:20 but none have been able to conclusively demonstrate them.
30:23 Please remember, I don't really have this ability.
30:26 The question is, will this demonstration be enough to have this prominent investigator endorse me to her public?
30:32 Now, I know who you are because I've read your books.
30:36 Perhaps for people at home who don't know you, perhaps you can tell us your credentials.
30:42 Well, Vince and I are part of a group of UFO researchers.
30:46 It's been together for about 35 years.
30:49 I started in 1957 with the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, which was called NICAP.
30:56 And then in 1965, when the first abductee claim came in,
31:03 I investigated that together with other members of NICAP.
31:07 So you both have quite a high profile in this area, and you've written--how many books have you written now?
31:13 I've written five books.
31:15 And this is the one that I--when I first came across you--was "How to Defend Yourself Against Alien Abduction."
31:22 A lot of the stories involve these bedroom visitors, these entities that come in at night.
31:27 Most of them do, yes.
31:29 Most of them involve, like, altered states, like the dream state.
31:34 The abduction scenario starts in the dream state.
31:39 If somebody said that the altered state is an altered state because people are dreaming
31:46 or because they think they're awake and they're not, and they're just sort of having a very lucid or vivid dream,
31:52 do you disregard that? Is that just not hold up with the evidence, or is that possible?
31:56 You decide for yourself, I guess.
31:59 There's not very much black and white.
32:01 You know, most of it is in the gray area.
32:04 Okay, well, that's good.
32:06 I suppose I should talk about my own experience.
32:09 After my abduction, essentially what it is, I seem to be able to tell people their medical background
32:16 and their medical history, sometimes their current medical state.
32:20 I tell you the impressions that I get.
32:23 If I get nothing at all, I'll be honest and say so.
32:25 And if I do say things, I'll try and be very accurate, because part of this journey for me as well
32:30 is seeing whether it is real or whether it's nothing to it.
32:33 I'll stand up and face over there.
32:36 If one of you comes and touches me on the back, it might be interesting also if you don't even let me know
32:42 which one of you is touching me.
32:44 Okay, just might make it more interesting.
32:47 And just place your hands on the small of my back, and just be patient,
32:53 because sometimes it takes a little while, and it's different with different people.
32:57 I'll also have my eyes closed as I'm doing it, so I won't be able to see.
33:06 So please don't say anything out loud, so I don't know who's coming up.
33:17 Okay, I've got my eyes closed, so...
33:20 [Silence]
33:26 [Music]
33:33 Okay, you're having real difficulty sleeping at the moment.
33:36 And I don't know if this is Vince or Ann, but you're having real difficulty sleeping.
33:45 Is there something in your throat, or that has been in your throat?
33:56 A tumor or something that was in your throat?
33:59 My actual anatomical knowledge is not great, but a gland or something in the throat there that was...
34:06 And this would have been ages ago, but something up there.
34:11 I'm going to turn around and look at you, if that's all right.
34:16 I think you don't take, or you really try not to take, chemical, prescriptive drugs.
34:27 I think maybe you use more sort of herbal or non-drug-based remedies,
34:33 because there's a real, almost if I'm shaking, but a real sense of purity almost.
34:39 And I think that you had some minor heart problems, but again, nothing.
34:43 I think you're in very good health, actually.
34:45 But that was very clear here in the throat, and that you've been having real difficulty sleeping for some time.
34:52 But the thing in the throat was years ago, I mean, literally decades ago.
34:55 It's not recent. Is that remotely?
34:58 Remotely, it's exactly.
35:02 Really? Did you have something in your throat?
35:04 I had a thyroidectomy in the 1960s for a benign tumor.
35:11 I had a low thyroid.
35:13 Right.
35:14 It was about the only surgery I've ever had up there.
35:18 I do have trouble sleeping.
35:22 And the other thing you said, that I do not take pharmacuticals.
35:28 Yeah. Is that true?
35:30 Yes. I'm almost exclusively alternative medicine.
35:34 Okay.
35:35 I don't trust Western medicine or pharmacuticals.
35:40 Well, you seem to be in good health, so that's...
35:42 I am. I'm in excellent health.
35:45 Wow.
35:48 I found it amazing.
35:51 I mean, the accuracy was astounding.
35:55 He was accurate to 100%.
35:59 And for the journal of scientific exploration,
36:03 I think possibly this would be the best place for Richard,
36:09 because that's a refereed scientific journal.
36:13 I mean, this should go to the very highest,
36:17 most respectable publications you can find.
36:20 At the next board meeting of MUFON L.A.,
36:23 I'll bring up the idea that Richard would make a most remarkable speaker.
36:29 Anne has offered me an impressive endorsement there.
36:32 I turned down an offer she made for me to speak at a meeting that evening,
36:35 and I left her keen to write about me.
36:38 Now I'm getting ready to talk to the dead.
36:42 If spiritualists really have been talking to the dead all these years,
36:45 then that is a wonderful and important thing.
36:48 If, on the other hand, it's not true,
36:50 then it could be seen as a very ugly and manipulative lie.
36:53 Now, that's not to say anything about Janet, who we're going to meet later.
36:56 She could, of course, be genuine.
36:58 But it's really worth having information that can help you make better decisions.
37:01 Now, one piece of information worth knowing is that there is a skill called cold reading,
37:05 which dates back to the first psychics and mediums,
37:08 which is a way of talking to people as if you know everything about them.
37:11 And people make your statements fit their situation.
37:14 Since the mid-1800s, spiritualists have been talking to the dead,
37:18 apparently delivering messages from beyond the grave
37:21 which seem so specific that they must be real.
37:24 (BELL RINGING)
37:26 I'm going to use every trick in the book.
37:32 And there are books, if you care to look for them,
37:34 written by openly fraudulent mediums teaching their techniques.
37:38 But of all the tasks facing me for this special,
37:40 this one makes me feel the most uncomfortable.
37:43 I personally believe, given my knowledge of the psychic industry,
37:46 that I'm using techniques here used by pretty much any successful medium.
37:49 But you're going to watch this knowing that I'm fake.
37:52 And if that makes you feel uncomfortable, then that is kind of my point.
37:56 I'm here as Fraser Sherwell,
38:02 and I've come to meet the respected medium Janet Nowavec
38:05 to convince her of my abilities.
38:07 I have a spiritualist church here in America and also a school for mediumship.
38:12 We believe in mediumship that's very evidential,
38:15 so we take this quite seriously.
38:17 So we train people who can give very good detail.
38:20 And you are bringing people, I suppose,
38:22 also into a belief system more religious as well.
38:24 Do you find that normally happens?
38:26 They're also entering into the church, perhaps?
38:28 It affects them spiritually. It affects their spiritual path.
38:31 It affects what they look at the world like.
38:33 It affects, for many people, what they believe about religion.
38:36 It touches them on a very... many levels.
38:39 The people attending this event are fairly sceptical New Yorkers
38:42 who have responded to an advertisement to come along and have a reading.
38:46 OK, so I'm going to go in now and give a demonstration to Janet
38:49 and a group of people who I've genuinely not met before,
38:52 but using medium skills and my own skills,
38:54 I'll give a more accurate reading than mediums tend to ever give.
38:58 And I'm interested to see how Janet takes it. We'll see.
39:01 OK, there's somebody who passed on a day that was either a birthday
39:11 or an anniversary or something like that.
39:13 You're laughing, is that it? Yeah?
39:33 This is a young chap. This isn't an old man. This is a young chap.
39:39 I think you got very close. I think this is a real...
39:43 I think you parted before he passed on, though, is that right?
39:47 Yes.
39:49 Yeah. It's not very forthcoming. Held a lot of things back. Yeah?
39:55 For all that, though, quite good natured, and he's got quite a dimply face when he smiles.
40:00 Is that right? Yeah?
40:02 Big hands. Yeah?
40:09 This is... All right, hang on.
40:13 I'm getting a name, which I don't think is his, but he's giving me a couple of names.
40:19 And there's Charles or Charlie. This isn't him.
40:23 And Tom or Thomas. Two different names he's given me.
40:29 Charles or Charlie and Tom or Thomas.
40:33 Can I tell you what that is?
40:35 Is it something? Yes.
40:38 Is it another relationship that you had? Sorry?
40:40 That's my ex-husband's name, but he's not passed on.
40:43 No, no, no, no, no, no. I said this isn't him.
40:45 Okay. This isn't him. This is a name that he's given me about something. Okay?
40:54 He's got some issue with this guy, and I don't know what it is. All right?
40:57 It's my ex-husband's name. Yeah, I think.
41:03 But this is him looking at you. This is just him looking out for you. All right?
41:07 He says you've been feeling lonely, and you've got a silly pet.
41:16 Which he finds funny.
41:20 You've got a silly pet? Yes. Okay.
41:25 I think that's what that's about.
41:27 That it's just him looking out for you and just kind of being there and, you know, just making that connection.
41:33 Fraser mentioned things that only I knew about the one that passed away.
41:39 And he just mentioned specific things like him passing away on our anniversary.
41:45 The fact that we were very close because we were engaged to be married.
41:49 And it was very revealing. And he said I had silly pets, which is true.
41:54 I have two aquariums, so it was a great read.
41:58 Coming up after the break, find out if a very respected medium will be able to tell if I'm really speaking to the dead and what her reaction will be.
42:10 This is the final part of the journey.
42:12 I want to see if a highly respected medium and teacher of mediums will be able to tell if I'm really talking to the dead.
42:19 I have to give convincing messages to a group of people I haven't met and know nothing about.
42:24 Now, in a way, I hope you're finding this as unpleasant to watch as I found it to perform.
42:31 Okay, alright. Old lady, but with black hair.
42:42 Tie back. Yep. Okay, alright.
42:48 Lily or Lucy or something like that. Yeah? No?
42:52 Say it again. Lily or Lucy or Lisa or... Lucy.
42:55 Lucy.
42:57 She's saying something about a hat that you used to like or something with a hat. Yeah?
43:03 This isn't your hat that you like. This is one of her hats.
43:05 It's something she had. She had a lot of hats and it was something that you liked.
43:08 In fact, she's got loads of hats.
43:14 Who's the hat lady? Yeah.
43:18 Okay.
43:20 She's asking about... I want to say Charlie, Charles. Yeah?
43:27 That's someone she left behind.
43:31 Or... It was her ex-husband.
43:33 It was her ex-husband again. Alright.
43:37 She's given me an image which she's given you.
43:41 I think this is something that she's tried to give you, a picture. Alright?
43:46 So I'm going to describe what this is and just be honest. Alright?
43:51 Okay, she's been trying to let you see that she's still connected to you.
43:58 And the way she's shown that is through a lift, an elevator.
44:03 Yeah? Uh-huh. Okay.
44:09 And it's her passing. It's her passing away.
44:15 She didn't die in an elevator, I'm sure, but this is the image that she's tried to give you.
44:20 Okay? Uh-huh.
44:24 What is that, by the way? You can tell me. I'm not...
44:27 It's a dream I had where she died in an elevator.
44:32 About a year or so ago, I had a dream of her passing.
44:37 And I wasn't with her when she died.
44:41 And I put her in an elevator. I was trying to take her up, you know.
44:47 And I was worried about that dream for a long time, not knowing what it meant.
44:52 And so I guess she wanted me to know that it was all good, it was okay.
45:00 Okay, this is a lady who is trying to connect with somebody at the front here.
45:05 And I'm just taking a moment to decide.
45:09 This is a lady, I think, the name I'm getting, which isn't a lady's name, is Paul.
45:15 Paula, Paulette.
45:19 Yeah? Your mother? Okay.
45:24 This is somebody maybe you didn't connect with very well, maybe you didn't connect too well with her when you were younger and growing up.
45:29 And this is about finding that connection. Now, does that sort of kind of make sense?
45:34 No older than 60, I would say sort of 50, something like that, when she passed. Is that about right? Not an old lady.
45:40 And the connection here with you is, I think, a sense of here is her being quite an artistic and creative woman.
45:50 Very stunt, very well kept, very well presented.
45:53 She looks very elegant.
45:56 And there's guilt on her part.
46:02 And it's good, it's happy, but it's like there's a feeling of guilt.
46:07 I think your father passed when you were very young as well, is that right?
46:10 And there's a feeling that she left early.
46:14 And that she didn't connect in the way that she should have connected.
46:18 And that's what is quite a strong feeling here.
46:24 Of things undone and things unsaid.
46:28 And the connection that got broken too early.
46:33 Because your dad had passed when you were very young, a teenager, I think, very young.
46:39 In a happy way, it's an apology.
46:41 In a happy way, I think this is a wanting to reach out and connect and just make that connection.
46:57 No other spiritualist has ever really given me what he's given me today.
47:02 Having never met him before, it was absolutely just astounding.
47:07 I've never experienced that before.
47:15 People do really want to hear from people who passed over.
47:18 So he brought through some lovely evidence and there's no doubt there's a gift there.
47:23 But I think to move it to another level would be incredible.
47:27 I think it would be a whole new level, particularly since Fraser readily admits he's not quite sure about this himself.
47:34 That felt horrible, but Janet thought I was real.
47:37 As did each of the influential figures I met.
47:40 No one questioned if it was real or not.
47:42 My time in America had come to an end.
47:44 And what had started out as a series of exciting challenges had grown into the slightly depressing feeling that when you step back,
47:50 all of these beliefs work in similar ways.
47:53 Whether it's religion or my own scepticism, we all notice what supports our beliefs and we disregard the rest.
47:59 He's going to take my job.
48:01 As a person who trains psychics, I would have them watch that film and say, "This is how you do it."
48:06 I do know people who've come to Christ with a radical conversion, but nothing quite like James.
48:13 Binoculars?
48:14 Yes.
48:15 Yeah?
48:16 My private secret dreams and he saw them.
48:19 Is that remotely?
48:20 It's exactly.
48:22 This should go to the most respectable publications you can find.
48:26 He brought through some lovely evidence. There's no doubt there's a gift there.
48:30 I left thinking that any of these beliefs might absolutely be true, but it's passion, not knowledge, that teaches us to be certain of them.
48:38 And that the ability to question these things is part of what makes us truly human.
48:47 I think God is a hoax and a scam, but it works. It's actually a good one.
48:51 I mean, how much money is given to something you can't see, can't smell, can't taste, but it's got to be there.
48:59 And you've got like 180 religions all going, "Oh, but we're the chosen ones. We are special, we are different, you're all else fucked, but we're going to get through because we've got a tripe door."
49:09 The Mormons and the Jews and the Muslims and I'm like going, "Good business. I want to get in on this."
49:15 - I'm a nurse.
49:15 (chimes)