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00:00 So just what do Ukrainians make of what's happening on the Russian border? Let's get
00:04 the view now from Kyiv. Peter Zalmayev is the director of the Eurasia Democracy Initiative
00:10 in the Ukrainian capital. He joins me live on the programme now. Thanks for finding the
00:14 time, sir, to talk to us today. I appreciate it.
00:18 The pleasure is mine.
00:20 As we saw in that report, two groups have claimed responsibility for the attacks inside
00:25 Russia. They are the Russian Volunteer Corps and the Freedom of Russia Legion. What do
00:31 you know of them?
00:33 Well, we've heard of them throughout the war, probably two, three, three or four months
00:40 into the war. We began in earnest to hear about these formations. It's not clear as
00:45 to what their strength is, how well represented they are throughout the territory of Russia.
00:52 But there's at least some credence to some sort of, some form of internal resistance
00:59 if you look at the events of the last, essentially, year since last summer, where a series of
01:06 unexplained arsons, derailings, and other events have happened with no clear explanation.
01:17 It would just be unreasonable to explain all of them as the work of Ukrainian saboteurs
01:25 or diversionary troops. Russia is a huge country. I cannot imagine Ukrainians being able to
01:30 penetrate that far into Russia. And most of the time they have denied that. So I think
01:34 there's, it's reasonable to assume that there's at least a modicum of internal resistance,
01:40 including in what's happening in Belgrade. And Ukrainian officials have, you know, trolled
01:46 Russians in a very kind of supremely ironic way. They said, well, just like in 2014, the
01:53 Russians claimed that the coal miners of the Donbass rose up and dug weapons out of their
01:59 coal mine shafts. And so the Ukrainians are now saying that you can just walk into a store,
02:04 let's say in Belgrade, and buy a tank. And they're in fact calling this the beginning
02:09 of a Belgrade People's Republic, you know, as sort of reference to the so-called Luhansk
02:14 and Donetsk People's Republics.
02:17 And you're rejecting that the sort of accusation by Moscow that these are Ukrainian saboteurs.
02:23 Nonetheless, apparently, at least one of those organisations does have a base inside Russian
02:29 territory. And I wonder what you make of them sort of fighting apparently, on your behalf
02:36 as a Ukrainian national, at least one of them has a far right origin, doesn't it? The Russian
02:42 Volunteer Corps. Are you pleased to see them fighting in some way on your behalf amid this
02:47 conflict?
02:48 Well, they're fighting not so much on Ukraine's behalf, they're fighting on their own behalf.
02:53 I mean, they have stated that, you know, Putin is the enemy of Russia. They're fighting to
02:59 reclaim the future, a democratic future of their country. And it just so happens that
03:05 our goals coincide. Obviously, there will be no long lasting peace and security in Ukraine
03:10 unless Russia is demilitarised and democratised. And this is what they are, in fact, you know,
03:19 demonstrating.
03:20 No, the thing is, what this situation in Belgrade is really showing is that this hybrid aggression
03:25 that Russia is waging against Ukraine can cut both ways. And now they're seeing that
03:31 this can go against them as well. Right now, Russians are now having to fortify their borders.
03:38 So obviously, this will help Ukraine because it will probably pull off some troops that
03:43 Vladimir Putin has been hoping will try to staunch Ukraine's coming counter offensive.
03:51 But also in closing, I will say that what's happening in Belgrade really neutralises any
03:57 sort of victory slogans and any festivities around the capture, the final reported capture
04:04 of Bakhmut. All of a sudden, the Russian propaganda, Putin's propaganda has another major crisis
04:11 on their hand that they're trying to, and very unsuccessfully trying to explain to the
04:16 population. They remember, they set out claiming that they will capture Kiev in three days.
04:22 And look, they're having to defend their own territory from some weird incursions. This
04:25 is a very ironic situation.
04:28 Peter Zalmayev, there are many more questions I'd like to ask you about this, but unfortunately,
04:31 we're out of time. I want to thank you for talking to us today. Thanks very much indeed.
04:35 Peter Zalmayev for us there in Kiev.