The Shibari Artist (s03e09: 'LAODAI')

Mosaic of China

Sometimes big themes can be tackled through the guise of performance art. In previous episodes of the podcast, we have explored how drag performers can teach us to embrace our own weirdness, and how clowns can teach us to embrace our own fallibility. These stories may be specific to China, but they apply to us all.  In today’s very special episode, we explore how the world of Shibari (縛り) has made its way from the world of BDSM to the world of Rope Art, and also made its way from Japan to China. And we discover how this art form can make us think about the themes of communication, connection and consent.  The episode also includes a catch-up interview with:  Yang Yi from Season 01 Episode 21  https://mosaicofchina.com/season-01-episode-21-yang-yi  Chapters 00:00 - Trailer & Intro  01:50 - Part 1  27:37 - Part 2  35:42 - Outro   39:26 - Catch-Up Interview    Subscribe to the PREMIUM version, see the visuals, and/or follow the full transcript for this episode at: https://mosaicofchina.com/season-03-episode-09-laodai   Join the community:  Instagram https://instagram.com/oscology LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/mosaicofchina Facebook https://facebook.com/mosaicofchina WeChat https://mosaicofchina.com/wechat

Transcript

00:02[Trailer]

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined3

Welcome to Mosaic of China:undefined

undefined:undefinedChina.

00:15I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.

00:18We as people are all connected.

00:21Emotionally, societally, globally, whichever

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined9

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedtied, why not have an episode about being

00:40emotionally tied?

00:42The themes of today’s show are community,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined14

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedthat we skirt around, such as B, and then

01:05there’s D, and later you might find an S,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined19

undefined:undefined20

undefined:undefined21

undefined:undefined22

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedyou right from the start to head to the Mosaic

01:30of China website for all the details on how

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined26

undefined:undefined27

undefined:undefined28

undefined:undefined29

undefined:undefined30

Thank you so much for coming:undefined

Thank you for inviting me. :undefined

My pleasure. :undefined

undefined:undefinedgoing to call you by the name which you're

02:00known for, which is Laodai.

02:02L: Exactly.

02:04OF: And can you explain what 老戴 [Lǎodài]

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined40

undefined:undefined41

undefined:undefined

Ah:undefined

Right. :undefined

undefined:undefined

Yeah. :undefined

It’s easy. :undefined

It's common to be known as ‘老 [Lǎo]’-something-something:undefinedright?

02:32L: Exactly.

02:33OF: So it shows that you are in some way venerated.

02:36I'm glad that somebody gave you that name,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined54

undefined:undefined

Probably. :undefined

Well:undefinedas to what you do.

02:56But maybe the next question I ask will be

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined60

undefined:undefined61

undefined:undefined62

undefined:undefined63

undefined:undefined

OK. :undefined

undefined:undefinedthe material?

03:22L: Because basically - I think I’ll go straight

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined71

undefined:undefined72

undefined:undefined73

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefined- and you were doing a show there, which you

03:58could call a ‘bondage show,’ a ‘rope

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined77

undefined:undefined78

undefined:undefined

縛り [Shibari]. :undefined

It’s very hard to explain if you haven’t:undefinedseen it.

04:16It’s a mix between art and emotional connection

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined84

undefined:undefined85

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedis it?

04:49L: Actually, because it's uncomfortable on

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined94

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedabout the enjoyment to be restricted - to

05:15be submitted, we can say - and the enjoyment

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined99

undefined:undefined100

undefined:undefined101

undefined:undefined102

undefined:undefined103

undefined:undefined104

undefined:undefined105

undefined:undefined106

undefined:undefined107

undefined:undefined

Yeah. :undefined

I can tell you what is my view of 縛り:undefined[Shibari].

05:49So it's basically an erotic art form born

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined113

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedOF: Yeah.

06:13L: I focus more on the emotional side of the

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined117

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedI'm an artist also.

06:33And I thought at the very beginning that it

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined122

undefined:undefined

OK:undefinedside, we're talking about the beauty of knots?

06:54Is that what you mean?

06:55L: That's a component.

06:57No, it’s the beauty of the whole final result.

07:03The knots, the pattern, the posture, the model’s

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined129

undefined:undefined

Right. :undefined

undefined:undefinedartwork which is set on a stage and for others

07:28to see?

07:29Or is it something which was designed to be

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined138

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinednot only about beauty, it's also about excitement

07:55and tension.

07:57So some people look for those elements, more

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined145

undefined:undefined146

undefined:undefined

Yes:undefinedart exhibition of 荒木 [Araki].

08:16OF: 荒木 [Araki], that's an artist?

08:18L: Yes, he’s a photographer of very erotic

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined156

undefined:undefined157

undefined:undefined

Oh you tied your own leg? :undefined

Yes. :undefined

undefined:undefined

Aha. :undefined

Because it’s practice:undefinedthe muscle memory.

08:58Then I remember, I found in the street this

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined167

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedjust the chest.

09:16OF: Oh wow, you are a serial killer.

09:18L: No, no, it was a plastic mannequin.

09:21It’s useless basically to use a mannequin,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined173

undefined:undefined174

undefined:undefined175

undefined:undefined176

undefined:undefined85

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedthe whole process.

09:52And I was very very lucky, it was like winning

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined181

undefined:undefined182

undefined:undefined183

undefined:undefined

A ‘rigger’:undefined

Yeah. :undefined

undefined:undefineddoesn't really care about the techniques.

10:15OF: Yes.

10:16L: But she taught me a lot in terms of dynamics,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined191

undefined:undefined

Got it. :undefined

undefined:undefinedgood”, “No, this is too tight”…

10:41L: Yeah.

10:42More than physical sensations, she was telling

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined198

undefined:undefined199

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedto focus on her.”

11:07It's about how you tie, and how you touch,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined205

undefined:undefined206

undefined:undefined207

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedan art form.

11:31But there is a sensuality, and there is this

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined216

undefined:undefined217

undefined:undefined218

undefined:undefined219

undefined:undefined218

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedthis learning process.

12:02Were there any specific mistakes that you

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined224

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefined- and you try more difficult and dangerous

12:24things like suspension - then mistakes usually

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined229

undefined:undefined230

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedof the arms.

12:54So if you press a nerve a lot, you damage

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined238

undefined:undefined239

undefined:undefined

I think the fault was between both of us. :undefined

undefined:undefinedto notice something was wrong.

13:21And on the model’s side, she didn't let

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined245

undefined:undefined101

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedand improve in that role of a model.

13:42So…

13:43OF: Yes.

13:44They’re learning, just like you're learning.

13:45L: Yes, yes.

13:46I mean, there is no real school of modelling,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined256

undefined:undefined257

undefined:undefined258

undefined:undefined259

undefined:undefined260

undefined:undefined261

undefined:undefined218

undefined:undefined263

undefined:undefined101

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedbeginning?

14:12How does that work?

14:13L: Consent is the main thing.

14:16Because it's not only putting rope against

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined270

undefined:undefined

Aha. :undefined

So when you tie somebody:undefinedbeforehand.

14:37Actually when you do every S/M practice, you

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined276

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedyou would like to do, and get a yes or no.

14:59OF: Can I tie this arm?

15:01Can I… what?

15:02L: Can I whisper in your ear?

15:03Can I give you a soft kiss on the neck?

15:05Can I grab?

15:06Can I squeeze?

15:07I go through all these things.

15:09I mean I'm not that crazy, so I have the 10-15

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined289

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedgo to the next step.

15:36OF: Yes.

15:37I mean, this is the thing about consent.

15:40People who…

15:41Let’s say “men” here, right?

15:42Men who think of this idea as "Oh, it's not

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined301

undefined:undefined302

undefined:undefined303

undefined:undefined304

undefined:undefined305

undefined:undefined306

undefined:undefined307

undefined:undefined

Yes I get it. :undefined

undefined:undefined

It’s like camouflaging the consent. :undefined

undefined:undefinedalso, let's say professionally - it happens

16:23a lot that a complete stranger will ask me

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined315

undefined:undefined

When I do sessions… :undefined

undefined:undefined

Yeah. :undefined

Those are called ‘sessions.’ :undefined

undefined:undefinedall those discussions.

16:48And I'm very safe.

16:49I don't do too much, even if I maybe want

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined325

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedagainst their chest, towards me.

17:10If they abandon themselves completely, I can

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined329

undefined:undefined330

undefined:undefined331

undefined:undefined

Yes. :undefined

And also I squeeze the rope very hard. :undefined

undefined:undefinedpain they can take, and then I understand

17:33what I can do and what I cannot do.

17:35OF: Yes, this is what comes from experience,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined339

undefined:undefined

It depends what you want to achieve. :undefined

undefined:undefinedconnection, me tying her doesn't really make

17:57sense.

17:58It’s better that he learns.

17:59OF: Right.

18:00Is that what you also do?

18:01You help couples to do this together?

18:02L: Yes, but we need to also keep it legal.

18:05OF: What do you mean by that?

18:07L: Because there is this law in China, more

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined357

undefined:undefined358

undefined:undefined359

undefined:undefined360

undefined:undefined

Every night in Japan:undefinedor there is a saloon.

18:44There's a lot of legal activities, without

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined365

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedmore restrictive.

18:59But it’s about ‘setting the line’.

19:02And then when you set the line, you can do

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined371

undefined:undefined372

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedmade the first public rope event in China.

19:33Me and this guy, 2017, at Roxie.

19:37And everybody was telling me “Why are you

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined384

undefined:undefined385

undefined:undefined386

undefined:undefined218

undefined:undefined388

stay legal. :undefined

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedline.

20:09So no nudity, no real pain, no scars.

20:12OF: Yeah.

20:13L: And we built, basically, the public community

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined395

undefined:undefined396

undefined:undefined397

undefined:undefined

Yes. :undefined

undefined:undefined

Yes. :undefined

undefined:undefinedbecame my business partner at this stage.

20:42OF: Right.

20:43L: Japanese trust Japanese.

20:44So we were able to invite very big names,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined407

undefined:undefined408

undefined:undefined409

undefined:undefined

Yes. :undefined

Otherwise you have to go to Japan and pay:undefinedmuch more.

21:11So they came to my workshop.

21:14And they started to spread the knowledge in

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined416

undefined:undefined417

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedEurope, to teach their workshops.

21:38And it was quite surprising, and they get

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined422

undefined:undefined

Really? :undefined

There are different kinds:undefinedonly one.

21:58Different teachers who are teaching their

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined427

undefined:undefined428

undefined:undefined429

undefined:undefined430

undefined:undefined

OK. :undefined

I mean:undefinedyoga…

22:19OF: Oh.

22:20L: Technically it’s not that different.

22:22OF: It's interesting.

22:23Yeah.

22:24L: Technically.

22:25OF: How, then, is your status in China now?

22:27Like, are you well known here?

22:28L: Yeah, it’s also surprising.

22:31There are people - who don't even know my

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined443

undefined:undefined

Really? :undefined

Yes:undefined[Chángshā], and 成都 [Chéngdū].

22:51OF: To do these workshops, right?

22:53L: Workshops, yes.

22:54And performances.

22:55OF: Let me end this part of the conversation

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined452

undefined:undefined453

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedis different to romantic love with a partner.

23:21How I explain this usually is, you have to

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined459

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedis another kind of love.

23:41So there is also the rope love.

23:43OF: How do you talk about that with your potential

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined464

undefined:undefined218

undefined:undefined

Yes. :undefined

undefined:undefinedif you…

24:04L: I do.

24:05I do.

24:06OF: Yeah.

24:07L: But it easier.

24:08Because if they found out after, it will be

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined478

undefined:undefined479

undefined:undefined

Yes. :undefined

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedwould be.

24:33Because you immediately talk about your fetish

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined486

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedtoo soon?

24:48You know, because it could be a situation

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined490

undefined:undefined491

undefined:undefined492

undefined:undefined

It happened that I shock people and they:undefinedjudge very very hard.

25:04Honestly, I don't say it, I'm just answering

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined496

undefined:undefined497

undefined:undefined498

undefined:undefined

Kind of:undefined

This is it. :undefined

undefined:undefined

Yes. :undefined

undefined:undefined

I'm actually in a stage where I'm not doing:undefinedit for sexual reasons.

25:30So I can see a potential partner that doesn't

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined509

undefined:undefined510

undefined:undefined511

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedI submit.

25:56So technically I take control, but to give

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined517

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedrubber - like, they always have this scary

26:17image.

26:18You know, it's intimidating.

26:19I mean, you look at the ropes, and it is intimidating.

26:22But then talking to you, you do get the sensuality,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined524

undefined:undefined525

undefined:undefined526

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedand they don't have this social limit.

26:47So it's easier to find good people in the

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined530

undefined:undefined531

undefined:undefined

Well said. :undefined

undefined:undefinedtoo.

27:11I think everyone needs to be open-eyed about

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined538

undefined:undefined

I've seen it. :undefined

Yeah. :undefined

If I can post that somehow:undefinedpart of this episode.

27:29Thanks so much, Laodai.

27:30L: Thank you, thank you.

27:32OF: We're going to move on to Part 2.

27:34L: OK.

27:35[Part 2]

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined551

undefined:undefined

Oh right. :undefined

That’s cool. :undefined

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedand enjoy.

28:06And then you go home.

28:07It’s a very nice activity.

28:10For years I believed there was some sort of

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined563

undefined:undefined564

undefined:undefined565

undefined:undefined566

undefined:undefined567

undefined:undefined

It’s one of the first things I learned. :undefined

undefined:undefined

Oh:undefined

It’s ‘you're welcome’. :undefined

undefined:undefinedwhen you do, like, the kiss shape of the mouth.

28:48So 不客气 [bùkèqì] sticks in my mind.

28:51OF: So it sounds like that.

28:52L: Yes, ‘boccuccia’

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined580

undefined:undefined581

undefined:undefined582

undefined:undefined583

undefined:undefined584

undefined:undefined585

undefined:undefined

Well:undefined

Avatar. :undefined

Yeah. :undefined

They shot Avatar there for a reason. :undefined

undefined:undefinedbuild a planet.

29:24OF: OK, next question.

29:26If you left China, what would you miss the

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined595

undefined:undefined596

undefined:undefined218

undefined:undefined598

undefined:undefined599

undefined:undefined600

undefined:undefined

Yes:undefined

undefined:undefinedcountries in this regard.

29:51OF: There’s a lot of red tape in Italy.

29:53L: Yes.

29:54And the worst thing…

29:55OF: The thing that you would miss the least,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined608

undefined:undefined218

undefined:undefined610

undefined:undefined

I find it very hard. :undefined

undefined:undefined

Yes:undefined

undefined:undefined

I think it's just impatient white men. :undefined

Maybe. :undefined

Next question:undefinedstill surprises you about life in China?

30:29L: No, I would say no.

30:32Oh actually it did.

30:34Actually I remember this right now.

30:36People have started walking with robot dogs.

30:38I’ve seen already four people doing it.

30:40OF: Oh.

30:41L: It’s a robot dog.

30:42And they’re walking the robot dog.

30:44So there's no sense in anything.

30:46OF: Next question, which comes from SmartShanghai:

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined637

undefined:undefined638

undefined:undefined639

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedname.

31:14And if you finish that bottle, they ask you

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined644

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedof badges, and you can see that people get

31:32drunk a lot.

31:33OF: Yes.

31:34L: I like this.

31:35And it's very quiet.

31:36OF: Yes, you have these places in Japan a

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined658

undefined:undefined659

undefined:undefined62

undefined:undefined661

undefined:undefined

Me too. :undefined

Yeah. :undefined

undefined:undefinedyou made in China?

32:03L: The best purchase is this jar that purifies

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined670

undefined:undefined

You're saying it's a jar:undefined

It’s a jar with a filter. :undefined

undefined:undefinedit.

32:24The filter is inside.

32:25OF: Yes.

32:26Got it.

32:27What is your favourite WeChat sticker?

32:28L: I’m sending it to you.

32:31OF: OK what's going on here?

32:33Can you describe this?

32:34L: I don't know if there is a meaning, but

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined683

undefined:undefined684

undefined:undefined685

undefined:undefined

I love this. :undefined

undefined:undefined

Maybe. :undefined

undefined:undefined

Thank you. :undefined

undefined:undefinedsing at KTV?

33:06L: I'm quite upset with KTV in China because

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined700

undefined:undefined701

undefined:undefined702

undefined:undefined703

undefined:undefined704

undefined:undefined705

undefined:undefined430

undefined:undefined707

undefined:undefined708

undefined:undefined709

undefined:undefined710

undefined:undefined711

undefined:undefined712

undefined:undefined713

undefined:undefined714

undefined:undefined715

undefined:undefined716

undefined:undefined717

undefined:undefined718

Yeah:undefined

Yeah but you know:undefined

undefined:undefined

Oh. :undefined

In Italian:undefined

Well this is a problem with 'Common People’:undefinedbecause there are a lot of words.

34:07L: Yeah.

34:08But that I know.

34:09I memorised that.

34:10OF: And finally, what or who is your biggest

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined730

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedthe path that I did.

34:33OF: Even though it's more difficult.

34:34L: Yes, yes.

34:36I quit my job, I’m struggling, but I'm more

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined738

undefined:undefined739

undefined:undefined740

undefined:undefined741

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedin China, who would you recommend that I interview

35:00in the next season of Mosaic of China?

35:02L: So there's my friend Shreni.

35:05She's American, from India.

35:10And she's very spiritual, and she started

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined751

undefined:undefined752

undefined:undefined

Yes. :undefined

undefined:undefined

Well thank you so much Laodai. :undefined

Thank you. :undefined

undefined:undefined

谢谢 [Xièxiè]. :undefined

undefined:undefinedOF: Well, I did it, I managed to finish off

35:45the massive editing job that was this episode.

35:48There’s an extra 20 minutes of Laodai’s

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined765

undefined:undefined

Then I said “Oh this thing could have:undefinedlots of potential.”

36:06And then we broke up, for completely different

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined769

undefined:undefined770

If you stick with one master:undefined

undefined:undefined

Yes. :undefined

undefined:undefinedL: Going to that festival helped me to quit

36:23the job.

36:24OF: Aha.

36:25[Clip 5]

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined779

undefined:undefined101

I found myself being like ‘under the :undefined

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedthings that can break a relationship.

36:42[Clip 7]

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined788

undefined:undefined789

A complete failure. :undefined

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedL: So like when you tie your shoes, you never

37:02think “Oh, I need to put this under this,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined795

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedL: It can be very fluid.

37:15Actually it’s more women tying men in China.

37:17[End of Audio Clips]

37:20Thanks once again to Laodai for sharing his

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined801

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedvery much on the performance art side of his

37:42life.

37:43But when it comes to the lifestyle and the

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined807

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedafter all, which is why I try to include artists

38:03of all description in the Mosaic of China.

38:06If you want to hear similar episodes that

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined813

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefined02 Episode 07.

38:29Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artwork

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined817

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedup, we spoke a lot about his experience appearing

38:53as a guest on This American Life earlier in

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined823

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedyet another reason that you really should

39:11be subscribed by now.

39:13And we’ll be back with another full episode

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined828

undefined:undefined829

undefined:undefined830

undefined:undefined

Yes. :undefined

…I think I have seen you probably the:undefinedmost.

39:40YY: Oh, really?

39:42OF: And there is an obvious reason for that,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined839

undefined:undefined840

undefined:undefined

You’re welcome. :undefined

Thank you man:undefinedmuch.

40:07You, you have had many more changes since

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined849

undefined:undefined

Yes. :undefined

You had 11 podcasts. :undefined

undefined:undefinedtoday?

40:25YY: For original podcasts we now have twenty.

40:28OF: Twenty.

40:29YY: Yes.

40:31And with another twenty branded podcasts.

40:33We help companies to produce their own shows.

40:36OF: Right.

40:37YY: Yeah.

40:38OF: So do you offer the editing support, the

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined864

undefined:undefined865

undefined:undefined866

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedradio station.

41:10Or an audio blog.”

41:12They don't have the sense of what it is.

41:14I need to tell them that a podcast is a show.

41:18And the show is not personal, it’s a show,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined877

undefined:undefined

Yeah. :undefined

So you need to find your target audience… :undefined

Yes. :undefined

…And match them very efficiently. :undefined

Well:undefinedMosaic of China, because I can't focus in

41:55on one particular thing, that’s my problem.

41:57YY: Ah.

41:58OF: But it is a diverse place.

42:00And that makes me ask you then, so where do

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined891

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedshows, and show the things you're really good

42:18at.

42:19Podcast listeners, they will think “Oh,

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined897

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedtoo, no?

42:35YY: Yes, but for original shows, maybe we

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined905

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedat some point?

42:59YY: Oh, yes.

43:01Maybe I will invite you to contribute some

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined912

undefined:undefined

undefined:undefinedwhich was a conference where I met you and

43:24many other podcasting people in Shanghai.

43:26YY: Yeah.

43:27OF: And you've really been with me in my journey

undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630

undefined:undefined920

undefined:undefined921

undefined:undefined

Transcript

Recommended