The Shibari Artist (s03e09: 'LAODAI')
Sometimes big themes can be tackled through the guise of performance art. In previous episodes of the podcast, we have explored how drag performers can teach us to embrace our own weirdness, and how clowns can teach us to embrace our own fallibility. These stories may be specific to China, but they apply to us all.
In today’s very special episode, we explore how the world of Shibari (縛り) has made its way from the world of BDSM to the world of Rope Art, and also made its way from Japan to China. And we discover how this art form can make us think about the themes of communication, connection and consent.
The episode also includes a catch-up interview with:
Yang Yi from Season 01 Episode 21
https://mosaicofchina.com/season-01-episode-21-yang-yi
Chapters
00:00 - Trailer & Intro
01:50 - Part 1
27:37 - Part 2
35:42 - Outro
39:26 - Catch-Up Interview
Subscribe to the PREMIUM version, see the visuals, and/or follow the full transcript for this episode at:
https://mosaicofchina.com/season-03-episode-09-laodai
Join the community:
Instagram
https://instagram.com/oscology
LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/company/mosaicofchina
Facebook
https://facebook.com/mosaicofchina
WeChat
https://mosaicofchina.com/wechat
In today’s very special episode, we explore how the world of Shibari (縛り) has made its way from the world of BDSM to the world of Rope Art, and also made its way from Japan to China. And we discover how this art form can make us think about the themes of communication, connection and consent.
The episode also includes a catch-up interview with:
Yang Yi from Season 01 Episode 21
https://mosaicofchina.com/season-01-episode-21-yang-yi
Chapters
00:00 - Trailer & Intro
01:50 - Part 1
27:37 - Part 2
35:42 - Outro
39:26 - Catch-Up Interview
Subscribe to the PREMIUM version, see the visuals, and/or follow the full transcript for this episode at:
https://mosaicofchina.com/season-03-episode-09-laodai
Join the community:
https://instagram.com/oscology
https://www.linkedin.com/company/mosaicofchina
https://facebook.com/mosaicofchina
https://mosaicofchina.com/wechat
Transcript
00:02[Trailer]
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined3
Welcome to Mosaic of China:undefined
undefined:undefinedChina.
00:15I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
00:18We as people are all connected.
00:21Emotionally, societally, globally, whichever
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined9
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedtied, why not have an episode about being
00:40emotionally tied?
00:42The themes of today’s show are community,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined14
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedthat we skirt around, such as B, and then
01:05there’s D, and later you might find an S,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined19
undefined:undefined20
undefined:undefined21
undefined:undefined22
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedyou right from the start to head to the Mosaic
01:30of China website for all the details on how
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined26
undefined:undefined27
undefined:undefined28
undefined:undefined29
undefined:undefined30
Thank you so much for coming:undefined
Thank you for inviting me.
:undefined
My pleasure.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedgoing to call you by the name which you're
02:00known for, which is Laodai.
02:02L: Exactly.
02:04OF: And can you explain what 老戴 [Lǎodài]
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined40
undefined:undefined41
undefined:undefined
Ah:undefined
Right.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Yeah.
:undefined
It’s easy.
:undefined
It's common to be known as ‘老 [Lǎo]’-something-something:undefinedright?
02:32L: Exactly.
02:33OF: So it shows that you are in some way venerated.
02:36I'm glad that somebody gave you that name,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined54
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Probably.
:undefined
Well:undefinedas to what you do.
02:56But maybe the next question I ask will be
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined60
undefined:undefined61
undefined:undefined62
undefined:undefined63
undefined:undefined
OK.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedthe material?
03:22L: Because basically - I think I’ll go straight
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined71
undefined:undefined72
undefined:undefined73
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined- and you were doing a show there, which you
03:58could call a ‘bondage show,’ a ‘rope
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined77
undefined:undefined78
undefined:undefined
縛り [Shibari].
:undefined
It’s very hard to explain if you haven’t:undefinedseen it.
04:16It’s a mix between art and emotional connection
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined84
undefined:undefined85
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedis it?
04:49L: Actually, because it's uncomfortable on
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined94
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedabout the enjoyment to be restricted - to
05:15be submitted, we can say - and the enjoyment
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined99
undefined:undefined100
undefined:undefined101
undefined:undefined102
undefined:undefined103
undefined:undefined104
undefined:undefined105
undefined:undefined106
undefined:undefined107
undefined:undefined
Yeah.
:undefined
I can tell you what is my view of 縛り:undefined[Shibari].
05:49So it's basically an erotic art form born
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined113
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedOF: Yeah.
06:13L: I focus more on the emotional side of the
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined117
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedI'm an artist also.
06:33And I thought at the very beginning that it
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined122
undefined:undefined
OK:undefinedside, we're talking about the beauty of knots?
06:54Is that what you mean?
06:55L: That's a component.
06:57No, it’s the beauty of the whole final result.
07:03The knots, the pattern, the posture, the model’s
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined129
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Right.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedartwork which is set on a stage and for others
07:28to see?
07:29Or is it something which was designed to be
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined138
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinednot only about beauty, it's also about excitement
07:55and tension.
07:57So some people look for those elements, more
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined145
undefined:undefined146
undefined:undefined
Yes:undefinedart exhibition of 荒木 [Araki].
08:16OF: 荒木 [Araki], that's an artist?
08:18L: Yes, he’s a photographer of very erotic
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined156
undefined:undefined157
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Oh you tied your own leg?
:undefined
Yes.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
Aha.
:undefined
Because it’s practice:undefinedthe muscle memory.
08:58Then I remember, I found in the street this
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined167
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedjust the chest.
09:16OF: Oh wow, you are a serial killer.
09:18L: No, no, it was a plastic mannequin.
09:21It’s useless basically to use a mannequin,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined173
undefined:undefined174
undefined:undefined175
undefined:undefined176
undefined:undefined85
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedthe whole process.
09:52And I was very very lucky, it was like winning
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined181
undefined:undefined182
undefined:undefined183
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
A ‘rigger’:undefined
Yeah.
:undefined
undefined:undefineddoesn't really care about the techniques.
10:15OF: Yes.
10:16L: But she taught me a lot in terms of dynamics,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined191
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Got it.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedgood”, “No, this is too tight”…
10:41L: Yeah.
10:42More than physical sensations, she was telling
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined198
undefined:undefined199
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedto focus on her.”
11:07It's about how you tie, and how you touch,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined205
undefined:undefined206
undefined:undefined207
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedan art form.
11:31But there is a sensuality, and there is this
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined216
undefined:undefined217
undefined:undefined218
undefined:undefined219
undefined:undefined218
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedthis learning process.
12:02Were there any specific mistakes that you
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined224
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined- and you try more difficult and dangerous
12:24things like suspension - then mistakes usually
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined229
undefined:undefined230
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedof the arms.
12:54So if you press a nerve a lot, you damage
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined238
undefined:undefined239
undefined:undefined
I think the fault was between both of us.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedto notice something was wrong.
13:21And on the model’s side, she didn't let
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined245
undefined:undefined101
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedand improve in that role of a model.
13:42So…
13:43OF: Yes.
13:44They’re learning, just like you're learning.
13:45L: Yes, yes.
13:46I mean, there is no real school of modelling,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined256
undefined:undefined257
undefined:undefined258
undefined:undefined259
undefined:undefined260
undefined:undefined261
undefined:undefined218
undefined:undefined263
undefined:undefined101
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedbeginning?
14:12How does that work?
14:13L: Consent is the main thing.
14:16Because it's not only putting rope against
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined270
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Aha.
:undefined
So when you tie somebody:undefinedbeforehand.
14:37Actually when you do every S/M practice, you
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined276
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedyou would like to do, and get a yes or no.
14:59OF: Can I tie this arm?
15:01Can I… what?
15:02L: Can I whisper in your ear?
15:03Can I give you a soft kiss on the neck?
15:05Can I grab?
15:06Can I squeeze?
15:07I go through all these things.
15:09I mean I'm not that crazy, so I have the 10-15
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined289
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedgo to the next step.
15:36OF: Yes.
15:37I mean, this is the thing about consent.
15:40People who…
15:41Let’s say “men” here, right?
15:42Men who think of this idea as "Oh, it's not
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined301
undefined:undefined302
undefined:undefined303
undefined:undefined304
undefined:undefined305
undefined:undefined306
undefined:undefined307
undefined:undefined
Yes I get it.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
It’s like camouflaging the consent.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedalso, let's say professionally - it happens
16:23a lot that a complete stranger will ask me
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined315
undefined:undefined
When I do sessions…
:undefined
undefined:undefined
Yeah.
:undefined
Those are called ‘sessions.’
:undefined
undefined:undefinedall those discussions.
16:48And I'm very safe.
16:49I don't do too much, even if I maybe want
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined325
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedagainst their chest, towards me.
17:10If they abandon themselves completely, I can
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined329
undefined:undefined330
undefined:undefined331
undefined:undefined
Yes.
:undefined
And also I squeeze the rope very hard.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedpain they can take, and then I understand
17:33what I can do and what I cannot do.
17:35OF: Yes, this is what comes from experience,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined339
undefined:undefined
It depends what you want to achieve.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedconnection, me tying her doesn't really make
17:57sense.
17:58It’s better that he learns.
17:59OF: Right.
18:00Is that what you also do?
18:01You help couples to do this together?
18:02L: Yes, but we need to also keep it legal.
18:05OF: What do you mean by that?
18:07L: Because there is this law in China, more
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined357
undefined:undefined358
undefined:undefined359
undefined:undefined360
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Every night in Japan:undefinedor there is a saloon.
18:44There's a lot of legal activities, without
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined365
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedmore restrictive.
18:59But it’s about ‘setting the line’.
19:02And then when you set the line, you can do
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined371
undefined:undefined372
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedmade the first public rope event in China.
19:33Me and this guy, 2017, at Roxie.
19:37And everybody was telling me “Why are you
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined384
undefined:undefined385
undefined:undefined386
undefined:undefined218
undefined:undefined388
stay legal.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedline.
20:09So no nudity, no real pain, no scars.
20:12OF: Yeah.
20:13L: And we built, basically, the public community
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined395
undefined:undefined396
undefined:undefined397
undefined:undefined
Yes.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
Yes.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedbecame my business partner at this stage.
20:42OF: Right.
20:43L: Japanese trust Japanese.
20:44So we were able to invite very big names,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined407
undefined:undefined408
undefined:undefined409
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Yes.
:undefined
Otherwise you have to go to Japan and pay:undefinedmuch more.
21:11So they came to my workshop.
21:14And they started to spread the knowledge in
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined416
undefined:undefined417
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedEurope, to teach their workshops.
21:38And it was quite surprising, and they get
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined422
undefined:undefined
Really?
:undefined
There are different kinds:undefinedonly one.
21:58Different teachers who are teaching their
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined427
undefined:undefined428
undefined:undefined429
undefined:undefined430
undefined:undefined
OK.
:undefined
I mean:undefinedyoga…
22:19OF: Oh.
22:20L: Technically it’s not that different.
22:22OF: It's interesting.
22:23Yeah.
22:24L: Technically.
22:25OF: How, then, is your status in China now?
22:27Like, are you well known here?
22:28L: Yeah, it’s also surprising.
22:31There are people - who don't even know my
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined443
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Really?
:undefined
Yes:undefined[Chángshā], and 成都 [Chéngdū].
22:51OF: To do these workshops, right?
22:53L: Workshops, yes.
22:54And performances.
22:55OF: Let me end this part of the conversation
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined452
undefined:undefined453
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedis different to romantic love with a partner.
23:21How I explain this usually is, you have to
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined459
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedis another kind of love.
23:41So there is also the rope love.
23:43OF: How do you talk about that with your potential
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined464
undefined:undefined218
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Yes.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedif you…
24:04L: I do.
24:05I do.
24:06OF: Yeah.
24:07L: But it easier.
24:08Because if they found out after, it will be
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined478
undefined:undefined479
undefined:undefined
Yes.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedwould be.
24:33Because you immediately talk about your fetish
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined486
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedtoo soon?
24:48You know, because it could be a situation
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined490
undefined:undefined491
undefined:undefined492
undefined:undefined
It happened that I shock people and they:undefinedjudge very very hard.
25:04Honestly, I don't say it, I'm just answering
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined496
undefined:undefined497
undefined:undefined498
undefined:undefined
Kind of:undefined
This is it.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
Yes.
:undefined
Yes.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
I'm actually in a stage where I'm not doing:undefinedit for sexual reasons.
25:30So I can see a potential partner that doesn't
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined509
undefined:undefined510
undefined:undefined511
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedI submit.
25:56So technically I take control, but to give
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined517
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedrubber - like, they always have this scary
26:17image.
26:18You know, it's intimidating.
26:19I mean, you look at the ropes, and it is intimidating.
26:22But then talking to you, you do get the sensuality,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined524
undefined:undefined525
undefined:undefined526
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedand they don't have this social limit.
26:47So it's easier to find good people in the
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined530
undefined:undefined531
undefined:undefined
Well said.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedtoo.
27:11I think everyone needs to be open-eyed about
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined538
undefined:undefined
I've seen it.
:undefined
Yeah.
:undefined
If I can post that somehow:undefinedpart of this episode.
27:29Thanks so much, Laodai.
27:30L: Thank you, thank you.
27:32OF: We're going to move on to Part 2.
27:34L: OK.
27:35[Part 2]
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined551
undefined:undefined
Oh right.
:undefined
That’s cool.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedand enjoy.
28:06And then you go home.
28:07It’s a very nice activity.
28:10For years I believed there was some sort of
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined563
undefined:undefined564
undefined:undefined565
undefined:undefined566
undefined:undefined567
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
It’s one of the first things I learned.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
Oh:undefined
It’s ‘you're welcome’.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedwhen you do, like, the kiss shape of the mouth.
28:48So 不客气 [bùkèqì] sticks in my mind.
28:51OF: So it sounds like that.
28:52L: Yes, ‘boccuccia’
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined580
undefined:undefined581
undefined:undefined582
undefined:undefined583
undefined:undefined584
undefined:undefined585
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Well:undefined
Avatar.
:undefined
Yeah.
:undefined
They shot Avatar there for a reason.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedbuild a planet.
29:24OF: OK, next question.
29:26If you left China, what would you miss the
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined595
undefined:undefined596
undefined:undefined218
undefined:undefined598
undefined:undefined599
undefined:undefined600
undefined:undefined
Yes:undefined
undefined:undefinedcountries in this regard.
29:51OF: There’s a lot of red tape in Italy.
29:53L: Yes.
29:54And the worst thing…
29:55OF: The thing that you would miss the least,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined608
undefined:undefined218
undefined:undefined610
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
I find it very hard.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
Yes:undefined
undefined:undefined
I think it's just impatient white men.
:undefined
Maybe.
:undefined
Next question:undefinedstill surprises you about life in China?
30:29L: No, I would say no.
30:32Oh actually it did.
30:34Actually I remember this right now.
30:36People have started walking with robot dogs.
30:38I’ve seen already four people doing it.
30:40OF: Oh.
30:41L: It’s a robot dog.
30:42And they’re walking the robot dog.
30:44So there's no sense in anything.
30:46OF: Next question, which comes from SmartShanghai:
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined637
undefined:undefined638
undefined:undefined639
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedname.
31:14And if you finish that bottle, they ask you
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined644
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedof badges, and you can see that people get
31:32drunk a lot.
31:33OF: Yes.
31:34L: I like this.
31:35And it's very quiet.
31:36OF: Yes, you have these places in Japan a
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined658
undefined:undefined659
undefined:undefined62
undefined:undefined661
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Me too.
:undefined
Yeah.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedyou made in China?
32:03L: The best purchase is this jar that purifies
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined670
undefined:undefined
You're saying it's a jar:undefined
It’s a jar with a filter.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedit.
32:24The filter is inside.
32:25OF: Yes.
32:26Got it.
32:27What is your favourite WeChat sticker?
32:28L: I’m sending it to you.
32:31OF: OK what's going on here?
32:33Can you describe this?
32:34L: I don't know if there is a meaning, but
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined683
undefined:undefined684
undefined:undefined685
undefined:undefined
I love this.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Maybe.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
Thank you.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedsing at KTV?
33:06L: I'm quite upset with KTV in China because
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined700
undefined:undefined701
undefined:undefined702
undefined:undefined703
undefined:undefined704
undefined:undefined705
undefined:undefined430
undefined:undefined707
undefined:undefined708
undefined:undefined709
undefined:undefined710
undefined:undefined711
undefined:undefined712
undefined:undefined713
undefined:undefined714
undefined:undefined715
undefined:undefined716
undefined:undefined717
undefined:undefined718
Yeah:undefined
Yeah but you know:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Oh.
:undefined
In Italian:undefined
Well this is a problem with 'Common People’:undefinedbecause there are a lot of words.
34:07L: Yeah.
34:08But that I know.
34:09I memorised that.
34:10OF: And finally, what or who is your biggest
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined730
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedthe path that I did.
34:33OF: Even though it's more difficult.
34:34L: Yes, yes.
34:36I quit my job, I’m struggling, but I'm more
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined738
undefined:undefined739
undefined:undefined740
undefined:undefined741
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedin China, who would you recommend that I interview
35:00in the next season of Mosaic of China?
35:02L: So there's my friend Shreni.
35:05She's American, from India.
35:10And she's very spiritual, and she started
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined751
undefined:undefined752
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Yes.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
Well thank you so much Laodai.
:undefined
Thank you.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
谢谢 [Xièxiè].
:undefined
undefined:undefinedOF: Well, I did it, I managed to finish off
35:45the massive editing job that was this episode.
35:48There’s an extra 20 minutes of Laodai’s
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined765
undefined:undefined
Then I said “Oh this thing could have:undefinedlots of potential.”
36:06And then we broke up, for completely different
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined769
undefined:undefined770
If you stick with one master:undefined
undefined:undefined
Yes.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedL: Going to that festival helped me to quit
36:23the job.
36:24OF: Aha.
36:25[Clip 5]
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined779
undefined:undefined101
I found myself being like ‘under the
:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedthings that can break a relationship.
36:42[Clip 7]
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined788
undefined:undefined789
A complete failure.
:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedL: So like when you tie your shoes, you never
37:02think “Oh, I need to put this under this,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined795
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedL: It can be very fluid.
37:15Actually it’s more women tying men in China.
37:17[End of Audio Clips]
37:20Thanks once again to Laodai for sharing his
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined801
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedvery much on the performance art side of his
37:42life.
37:43But when it comes to the lifestyle and the
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined807
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedafter all, which is why I try to include artists
38:03of all description in the Mosaic of China.
38:06If you want to hear similar episodes that
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined813
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined02 Episode 07.
38:29Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artwork
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined817
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedup, we spoke a lot about his experience appearing
38:53as a guest on This American Life earlier in
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined823
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedyet another reason that you really should
39:11be subscribed by now.
39:13And we’ll be back with another full episode
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined828
undefined:undefined829
undefined:undefined830
undefined:undefined
Yes.
:undefined
…I think I have seen you probably the:undefinedmost.
39:40YY: Oh, really?
39:42OF: And there is an obvious reason for that,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined839
undefined:undefined840
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
You’re welcome.
:undefined
Thank you man:undefinedmuch.
40:07You, you have had many more changes since
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined849
undefined:undefined
Yes.
:undefined
You had 11 podcasts.
:undefined
undefined:undefinedtoday?
40:25YY: For original podcasts we now have twenty.
40:28OF: Twenty.
40:29YY: Yes.
40:31And with another twenty branded podcasts.
40:33We help companies to produce their own shows.
40:36OF: Right.
40:37YY: Yeah.
40:38OF: So do you offer the editing support, the
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined864
undefined:undefined865
undefined:undefined866
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedradio station.
41:10Or an audio blog.”
41:12They don't have the sense of what it is.
41:14I need to tell them that a podcast is a show.
41:18And the show is not personal, it’s a show,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined877
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
Yeah.
:undefined
So you need to find your target audience…
:undefined
Yes.
:undefined
…And match them very efficiently.
:undefined
Well:undefinedMosaic of China, because I can't focus in
41:55on one particular thing, that’s my problem.
41:57YY: Ah.
41:58OF: But it is a diverse place.
42:00And that makes me ask you then, so where do
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined891
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedshows, and show the things you're really good
42:18at.
42:19Podcast listeners, they will think “Oh,
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined897
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedtoo, no?
42:35YY: Yes, but for original shows, maybe we
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined905
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedat some point?
42:59YY: Oh, yes.
43:01Maybe I will invite you to contribute some
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined912
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefined
undefined:undefinedwhich was a conference where I met you and
43:24many other podcasting people in Shanghai.
43:26YY: Yeah.
43:27OF: And you've really been with me in my journey
undefined:undefined00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:08,630
undefined:undefined920
undefined:undefined921
undefined:undefined