Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00so we have with us acharya prashant uh the most watched spiritual guru on social media platforms
00:26we're talking about 70 million people he's an IIT alumni we're here at IIT today of course you are
00:33also an alumni of IIM when you talk about Gita there's 17 forms of Gita that you teach in your
00:42teachings which are online as well as offline you're a poet you've done theater is there anything
00:50that you can't do you're a spiritual guide a spiritual leader how do you help people navigate
00:56through their problems and their issues and make them forget the problems at hand
01:00I primarily encourage them to see that the problems that they are fighting are not their real problems
01:11there are just so many problems they see for themselves and most of those problems deserve
01:20to be ignored provided one can encounter the real problem so I try to bring them to their
01:29one real problem and that one real problem is the solution to a host of petty problems if
01:39one must have a problem let it be a real one and a big one a worthy one problem worth fighting
01:48right yeah a problem worth fighting for now is the north-south divide when it comes to
01:52delimitation and that is something which is you know been a very hot topic it is uh concerning
01:58the population of our country uh the southern states they feel that they're being penalized for
02:03you know controlling the population uh the northern states say that they have a large population which
02:08is why they should have a higher number of representation when it comes to the parliament
02:11uh what in your view is uh you know how do you perceive delimitation as far as india is concerned
02:19and do you feel it's necessary you see the northern states were given a lot of time to catch up
02:26and i'm speaking and i must speak as an indian not as a northerner or a southerner
02:321971 was the last actual delimitation 76 uh we had the constitution amendment act and we said we are postponing it
02:44for some 30 years and then we postponed it for another 30 years close to 30 years right and all this
02:54was so that the northern states could catch up but that has not happened in fact the south has
03:02surged ahead in all the performance parameters so when you look at it and when you see that the
03:12that the emergence of south as a better region is not something that it inherited if you look at 1947
03:22north south east west were all struggling more or less at the same level the same plane
03:29it has been because of resolute action and and the right determination of priorities that the south
03:40has done well it is not just about population control yes we know that the fertility rate in south is
03:46almost one child less per woman you have tamil nadu and kirl at around 1.6 whereas up and bihar are 2.6
03:562.7 i suppose even 3.0 bihar that's where it stands it's not just about population obviously
04:02population uh growth is a big factor in the north it's about every aspect of human development
04:09the very human development indicator for south it is touching almost 0.80 right uh and for most states
04:19in the north and by north i mean the hindi belt right for most states in the north it is not even
04:240.60 and that's a massive gap it's a massive gap i agree but when you talk about population is
04:31population the only way of you know having is it linked to political power is that the only link that
04:38you see it going forward in terms of uh you know when we talk about the southern states they are saying
04:43that they have no problem in the numbers that they have they have a problem with the exponential rise
04:48when they'll see towards the northern states yes and that rise that we will see and do do you feel
04:53that this increase in number of representation is fair indira gandhi didn't do it when she
04:58exercised delimitation atal bihari vajpayee didn't do it when he exercised delimitation in the united
05:03states the house of representatives is capped at 435 since 1913 their population has increased four
05:09times over see if i will take the first part of your question first is it only about the population no
05:15not at all we said hdi and hdi covers every aspect of human development so you have infant mortality rate
05:25you have malnutrition rates you have poverty rates the north is not just a little ahead of the south
05:32it's it's miles ahead of the south you look at the status of women the gender empowerment measure
05:40the empowerment of women is something that you know they have been praised about yes and you have
05:45it's not just subjective you have very objective numerical figures indicating as well as the literacy
05:52rate as well as the health care system whether it's the education system whether it's the health
05:55care system wouldn't you say tamil nadu is being rated as the health capital of the country yes of
06:01course and the average person in the south lives almost 10 years more than the average person in the north
06:08similarly the poverty rates in the south when it comes to measuring multi-dimensional poverty as of
06:172021 are like one percent four percent in keral tamil nadu other states in the north they are almost 10
06:27times if we take up and bihar if you take the number of years the average person spends in school and
06:36college in education the average person from the south spends almost four five years more than the
06:42average person in the north right if you look at the portfolio of loans for what purpose is the
06:49north picking loans versus the south the contribution to the physical development of the country if you
06:55see the southern state no we are not talking about physical yet we are talking about the inner part we are
07:00talking about education we are talking about equality we are also talking about casteism and in all these
07:07things the south has chosen to be way ahead of the north absolutely the key word is choice the key word
07:13is choice because exemplary because when it was 1947 as we said we were almost at the same level
07:21so what has happened thereafter is a result of conscious choice and it has been a choice in the direction of
07:28nation building okay and therefore the nation has to reward that kind of choice and behavior as opposed
07:35to penalizing as opposed to penalize it well said so even if we say for example that the seeds of the
07:40south won't be reduced it is a it's a pretty uh you know misleading thing to say because their
07:47representation as a proportion would greatly decline uh the not only is the actually the south going to
07:56suffer even the northeast and also some states in the west they are going to suffer because of this
08:03it's mostly the hindi heartland that's going to be over represented if delimitation happens as per
08:09population today which includes states such as uh utah pradesh bihar madhya pradesh rajistan those are
08:15the main states those are the states that would benefit and that's a travesty because you see we have
08:20to look at the situation as an indian as an indian i would want that the policy making is concentrated
08:28in more educated more conscious and wiser hands and as the situation stands today one has to
08:37objectively admit that those who have made better decisions and are in a better position to make
08:44better decisions for the entire country they come more from the south
08:47would you say instead of increasing the number of mps would you say freeze the number of mps but
08:54instead increase the number of mlas instead no that's a totally different thing constitution talks
08:59of both the things it talks of delimitation of parliamentary constituencies as well as the
09:04constituencies for legislative assemblies so that's a totally different thing obviously that's a matter
09:09more or less internal to the state for the state within the state you can obviously again demarcate the
09:15constituencies and increase the number of seats in the assemblies and that would mean that per seat
09:21a lesser number a more optimal number of voters people would be represented and that way that is
09:28entirely fair that is perfectly fine and that's also not at the root of the controversy here
09:33and the controversy pertains to parliamentary delimitation that's where the controversy is
09:39and i think such a delimitation is not going to be fair in fact in fact
09:45to append the whole debate i would go on to say that why should we not rather incentivize and reward the south
09:53absolutely but you know the southern leaders are saying this is a political assault when it comes to the southern states
09:59it will become that way because typically the north and the south have followed different patterns of representation
10:06in the parliament that is lok sabha rajya sabha so if you give an overwhelming weightage to the north
10:14you will not just find the north being over represented you will also find particular parties and particular ideologies
10:23being over represented right in the parliament absolutely their fears are justified absolutely
10:30so would you say that as some would you know usually say that delimitation is basically a political strategy in disguise
10:39would you agree that's not what it was meant to be it was meant to be a tool of equity
10:45it was meant to be a tool of equal representation not just between the north and south
10:52but also to ensure that the weight of the vote of the average voter does not fall beyond a point you see
11:02if 10 lakh people elect a representative then the weight of one vote is you know one by one upon 10 lakh
11:11whereas if that same constituency has 30 lakh voters right then the weight has fallen by three times
11:16if we have to address this situation a method would be to simply increase the number of seats
11:25lok sabha seats from each state keeping the proportion of seats exactly the same
11:32so for example if today you have 80 seats from one state and 40 from another
11:38let it be 120 from the one and 60 from the other
11:44so you have increased seats by 50 percent for both of them
11:48right of course the argument is that the population should represent the number of seats
11:53which is like we just discussed is very unfair to the southern states that have actually controlled the population
11:58they've been praised in the past by the government for controlling the population
12:01will this not deepen the regional divide when it comes to the north and the south
12:06as well as the rural and the urban
12:08see it is not population per se that deepens the divide
12:12we have to remember that population itself is driven by something deeper
12:18which is education mindset and ideology
12:21that's where the divide will come
12:24people are not divided merely by numbers
12:27people are divided by their minds and their ideologies
12:29see if the people of the north they continue to believe in caste
12:35whereas south has left caste behind
12:38if people of the north continue to believe in their old traditions and the rural ways of thinking and living
12:47whereas Tamil Nadu is almost 50 percent urbanized
12:49that's where the problem will start arising because now the thoughts won't align
12:55and that would be a problem rather a threat
12:59to the nation itself to the integrity of the nation itself
13:03so population is not something that you can just control on its own
13:08population gets controlled when women are empowered
13:10when there is education
13:11when there is an anti-caste environment
13:16when you are focusing on doing the right things in life
13:21rather than just amassing power
13:23when there is a thought towards entrepreneurship
13:27when you think about obtaining better studies
13:31and getting better jobs by going abroad
13:34going to other countries
13:35and that's a totally different kind of mindset
13:37when there is better sanitation
13:39better roads
13:39better law and order
13:41better policing
13:41if you look at the attitude
13:43let's just compare the contribution of the southern states
13:46in comparison to the northern states
13:47in various aspects
13:49whether it's healthcare
13:50education
13:51fiscal contribution
13:52in each and every regard
13:54whether it comes to women empowerment
13:56something that you are very passionate about
13:57you see when
13:58the first thing that you must compare
14:00is the tax revenue itself
14:02the average person
14:03in the south
14:05contributes a tax revenue
14:07not 10-20% more than the average northerner
14:11but actually 100% more than the average northerner
14:14that's his contribution
14:15not just to the state
14:16but to the central finances
14:18and he does not really get
14:20an equal or justified return
14:23from the center
14:25when it comes to the devolution of taxes
14:27it is not
14:27not really in the favor of the south
14:30so you could even argue and say
14:32that when it comes to development
14:34the south is in some way sponsoring
14:36or at least financing
14:38the north
14:39when it comes to
14:41the number of women
14:43that go outside and work
14:45which is your
14:46female labor participation rate
14:48FLPR
14:49that too
14:50is higher in the south
14:51by a big margin
14:54compared to the north
14:55in north
14:56I am not including
14:57Punjab
14:57I am not including
14:58the
15:00western states
15:02so it's not just north
15:04I am including
15:04the
15:05Hindi heartland
15:06what you would call as
15:08the
15:09the largest states
15:10yes
15:10south is the place
15:12where north should also have been
15:14right
15:15and so
15:16and the southern is very proud of that
15:18and
15:18justifiably proud of that
15:20they should be proud of that
15:20and as northerners
15:22we should not take offense
15:24we should in fact take inspiration
15:26absolutely
15:26what the south has achieved
15:28the north too can
15:29and
15:29we should learn from the south
15:31our brothers from the south
15:32and
15:33and see what
15:34we can do for ourselves
15:35right
15:36absolutely
15:36so
15:37how does one maintain
15:39national
15:39integrity
15:40when
15:41the political tools
15:42seem to divide
15:43by ensuring justice
15:45first of all
15:46if a people start feeling
15:48that
15:49they have been
15:50shortchanged
15:51there is no way
15:53they are going to
15:55remain content
15:56and silent
15:56there would be
15:59lingering
16:00frustration
16:02anger
16:03and
16:05that
16:06would be
16:07vented out in due course
16:08and that's not going to be good
16:09for the nation
16:10so
16:11if the south
16:13has performed well
16:14let alone
16:16penalize them
16:17I'm saying
16:18actively
16:19let's reward the south
16:20please
16:20for our own sake
16:22and let's
16:23please see that
16:24the south
16:25is our own country
16:26why should I
16:28identify myself
16:29with a particular
16:30region or state
16:31right
16:31Keral is my country
16:33Keral is my country
16:34Keral is India
16:35so
16:36so if
16:36Keral is rewarded
16:37India is being rewarded
16:39if Keral is rewarded
16:40I'm being rewarded
16:41absolutely
16:42and
16:43instead if we take a
16:44partisan approach
16:45and do not
16:47deal a fair hand
16:48that's neither ethical
16:51nor good for
16:52national integrity
16:53right
16:55when power is chased
16:56by numbers
16:56how do you see it
16:58through
16:58a spiritual aspect
16:59or a philosophical
17:00viewpoint
17:01wonderful
17:02lovely question
17:03you see
17:04numbers belong
17:05to the material world
17:06the world of quantity
17:08the world of diversity
17:10this this this this
17:11that's where numbers lie
17:13right
17:13things that can be
17:14enumerated
17:14counted
17:15so that's a material world
17:16whereas
17:18spirituality
17:19is about quality
17:21not quantity
17:22it's not about
17:24counting how much
17:25you have
17:25it's about
17:26seeing
17:27what you have
17:28or who you are
17:29how much it
17:30lends or adds
17:31to your
17:32quality
17:33the quality of life
17:34right
17:34so
17:35in the discussion
17:36that we currently
17:37are in
17:38south has the quality
17:41north has the quantity
17:42that's right
17:43absolutely
17:43south has the quality
17:44well described
17:45yes
17:45north has the quantity
17:46and the spiritual approach
17:48would always say
17:49favor quality
17:50over quantity
17:51any day
17:53right
17:55of course
17:55so
17:56what about
17:57governance
17:57should there be
17:59more merit
17:59when it comes
18:00to education
18:01when it comes
18:02to merit
18:03when it comes
18:05to values
18:05and wisdom
18:06as opposed
18:07to
18:07arithmetic
18:08as opposed
18:08to numbers
18:09you see
18:10if you look
18:11at
18:11how the south
18:13votes
18:13or the manifestos
18:15there are
18:16versus
18:17how the north
18:18votes
18:18there is a
18:21great dissonance
18:22I'm not saying
18:23that petty issues
18:25have evaporated
18:26from the south
18:27or that it is
18:27corruption free
18:28it's a
18:30paradise
18:30a thing
18:31of ideal utopia
18:32no not
18:33not that
18:34but it's
18:35definitely
18:35much better
18:36when it comes
18:37to
18:37the whole
18:38electoral process
18:39than the north
18:41so
18:42people are
18:45voting
18:45more
18:46on the
18:46right issues
18:47people are
18:47demanding
18:48better
18:49amenities
18:49people
18:50are getting
18:51better
18:51amenities
18:52I was
18:53talking about
18:53policing
18:54at some
18:56point
18:56it got
18:57interrupted
18:57you see
18:58the state
18:59of policing
19:00I was reading
19:01a report
19:02comparison
19:03of various
19:04states
19:04so I just
19:06bundled
19:07together
19:07the southern
19:08states
19:08and the
19:09policing
19:10there
19:10is in a
19:12different
19:12dimension
19:13compared to
19:14how we
19:15experience
19:16policing
19:16on our
19:17streets
19:18Delhi
19:20UP
19:20Haryana
19:21the way
19:22we approach
19:22police
19:23and the way
19:24the whole
19:24system
19:24the policing
19:25system
19:25is imagined
19:26and visaged
19:27that's very
19:28different from
19:28how it is
19:29in the south
19:29the police
19:31is more of
19:31a service
19:32provider
19:32an efficient
19:33service
19:33provider
19:34so the
19:35entire
19:35atmosphere
19:36is very
19:37different
19:38the aspirations
19:39of the youth
19:39are different
19:40in north
19:41the biggest
19:42thing
19:42is a
19:43government
19:43job
19:44and even
19:46among
19:46government
19:47jobs
19:47if you
19:47can get
19:48a job
19:48in the
19:48police
19:49wow
19:50fascinating
19:51that's not
19:52the aspiration
19:52in the south
19:53you have
19:54many many
19:54more
19:55engineering
19:56colleges
19:56per capita
19:57in the south
19:58than in the
19:59north
19:59right
20:00right
20:00we would
20:00totally
20:01agree
20:01on that
20:02and of
20:02course
20:02my last
20:03question
20:04regarding
20:04this would
20:05be
20:05is population
20:06alone
20:07capable
20:08of deciding
20:08what the
20:10political
20:10power
20:10should be
20:11no
20:11no
20:11no
20:12no
20:12no
20:13no
20:13democracy
20:15that
20:15just
20:16pounds
20:16votes
20:17is bound
20:18to be
20:18flawed
20:19democracy
20:19therefore
20:20democratic
20:22conditions
20:23have to be
20:24first created
20:25before you
20:26can have
20:27successful
20:28democratic
20:28processes
20:29and foremost
20:31among
20:31democratic
20:31conditions
20:32is
20:32education
20:33education
20:34equality
20:35justice
20:36empowerment
20:36when these
20:38things are
20:38there
20:38then you
20:39can count
20:40votes
20:40and be
20:41assured
20:41that every
20:42vote
20:42has been
20:43rightly
20:44cast
20:44and has
20:44equal
20:45value
20:45otherwise
20:46votes
20:47can be
20:48very easily
20:49manipulated
20:49not at
20:50the level
20:50of EVMs
20:51necessarily
20:51but at
20:52the level
20:52of the
20:52voter
20:53himself
20:53you see
20:54if the
20:54voter
20:54is
20:55ignorant
20:56illiterate
20:57and gullible
20:59why would
21:01the leader
21:01the political
21:02party
21:03not manipulate
21:04him
21:04he is
21:05vulnerable
21:06very vulnerable
21:06and that
21:07would result
21:08in a very
21:08flawed
21:08democracy
21:09in fact
21:10the leader
21:11would have
21:11a stake
21:12in pulling
21:13down the
21:13voter
21:13just to
21:14get his
21:15vote
21:16and that
21:17kind of
21:17democratic
21:18system
21:18is in
21:19fact
21:19going to
21:20cost the
21:21electorate
21:21a lot
21:22the leader
21:23comes to
21:23the voter
21:24and corrupts
21:25his mind
21:26even more
21:26in the
21:27time of
21:28the
21:28elections
21:28so
21:29you cannot
21:30have
21:30democracy
21:31without
21:32the
21:32right
21:32kind
21:33of
21:33education
21:33and
21:34empowerment
21:34right
21:35thank you
21:36so much
21:36sir
21:36for
21:37you know
21:38giving us
21:38your inputs
21:39in regard
21:40to delimitation
21:41and how
21:41you know
21:42the southern
21:42states need
21:43to be
21:43rewarded
21:44for
21:44controlling
21:45the population
21:46to be
21:59another
22:00like
22:01the
22:02one
22:03two
22:04three
22:04months
22:06three
22:06the
22:06you
22:07whatever