The Obstetrician who was part of the incredible team which helped delivered the UK's first baby via womb transplant has told GB News of the "joyous and special day", saying she feels "honoured" to have helped make history.Grace Davidson, 36, received a womb transplant donated by her older sister Amy Purdie in 2023, and gave birth to baby Amy Isabel with the help of volunteer surgeons - organised by charity Womb Transplant UK.FULL STORY HERE.
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00:00Joined by the consultant obstetrician, Bryony Jones.
00:03And Bryony, of course, is the woman behind.
00:05I'm not going to shy away from this, Bryony.
00:07You have played such a significant part in this story,
00:11which is on the front page of the papers today.
00:13You're working this morning, working as normal, gone back to work.
00:17But tell us, this couple came to you or had the transplant
00:21and you were brought in to be the obstetrician to lead their care.
00:26Why was this case so special?
00:28Good morning, Bev.
00:30Good morning.
00:30No, this was a really honour and a privilege to be part of this amazing team
00:34that have made this amazing pregnancy
00:37and had this lovely baby Amy into the world.
00:43It's a difficult journey and actually I met,
00:45been part of the team which precedes the pregnancy.
00:47So it's really important that there's a whole team behind
00:50making sure that the transplant is safe,
00:53that the patient remains safe whilst they're trying to get pregnant.
00:56And obviously once they're pregnant, looking after the pregnancy
01:00and monitoring both the mum and the baby.
01:04And so you delivered this baby by caesarean section.
01:08Just explain to us why she would have to be born by caesarean.
01:11So because of the uterine transplant,
01:16it's really important that the woman doesn't experience any contractions
01:20because that could jeopardise the transplant,
01:23the blood supply to the womb.
01:25And so the only way of delivering the baby safely is by caesarean section.
01:29Because Amy, the mother, sorry, Grace, was born with ovaries but no womb.
01:33So this baby is biologically hers, using her own eggs and her husband's sperm.
01:39That's right.
01:41How is it different as a carer of this couple
01:44to manage that pregnancy journey with them
01:47compared to a normal couple, if you like?
01:49There are lots of women who have complicated pregnancies.
01:53So clearly as doctors, many obstetricians have experience
01:56in looking after complexity and our job is to make keep mums and babies safe.
02:00Clearly this is the first time we've looked after a woman
02:03who's had a transplant.
02:05But a lot of the same principles apply
02:07and there's a whole team behind me
02:09ensuring that both the mum and the baby were safe
02:14and monitored throughout the pregnancy.
02:16But yes, it was joyous.
02:17It's an incredible opportunity.
02:19It was deeply rewarding
02:21and an absolute joy to be part of the team.
02:24How nervous were you that it was all going to work out OK?
02:28Because this is a major step.
02:29That's why it's international news.
02:31It's on every front page.
02:32We're all talking about it.
02:33Because first of all, you've got to remove the wound from her sister.
02:37Big, big surgery.
02:38Then you've got to be implanted in the mum.
02:41And then you've got the cesarean.
02:43I mean, big, big surgical steps.
02:45I guess so.
02:46Perhaps naively, you look after her as you would do anyone else.
02:51I mean, I think you've just got to look at the medical issues.
02:54You're caring for the patient.
02:56You're doing the things that are needed.
02:58The day was special.
02:59It felt special because it was the accumulation of years of work
03:03from the Womb Transplant UK team.
03:05And I was incredibly honoured to be part of that team.
03:08The surgery was complex, but actually it had a really good outcome.
03:13And it was just, it was a great experience.
03:15I have to say, I'm going to admit,
03:17a little bit of a watery eye looking at the baby being held by the mummy afterwards.
03:20There were 16 of you in that surgery.
03:23Was there quite a lot of people crying?
03:25I think we all held it together.
03:27I think we just, there was a lot of joy.
03:29There was a lot of joy.
03:30And remembering that this was a special day for us,
03:34but it was a super special day for Grace and her baby.
03:38And it was the birth of their beautiful baby.
03:40And so we were trying to keep that as normal as a special for them.
03:43Now, critics or cynics or sceptics might say,
03:47well, this couple could have adopted a baby or they could have used a surrogate.
03:52Why would she put her own health at risk?
03:54And of course, at some point,
03:56she will have to have the uterus removed as well for the remainder of her life.
03:59So she's not on immunosuppressants.
04:01Can you explain, having got to know the couple,
04:03why that was so important to them?
04:06I think you probably have to speak to an individual woman.
04:09But I can reassure you that she went into this with a full knowledge of the issues that might arise.
04:16But also, we are used to looking after women who have other organ transplants.
04:20And to me, probably having a uterus transplant or a womb transplant
04:23is no real difference than someone having other organs that are transplanted.
04:28And I think medical research does push boundaries, but I think in a positive way.
04:34And I think it's given her the opportunity.
04:36And for many women who, like Grace, were born without a womb,
04:40to give the opportunity to have a baby.
04:43So one in 5,000 women are born through no fault of their own without a womb.
04:47But it gives them hope to be able to, if they choose this pathway,
04:51not every woman will choose the same pathway,
04:54but at least it gives them hope and another choice.
04:56West Street and the Health Secretary, who was doing the rounds this morning,
04:58suggested that this could end up being on the NHS.
05:02I mean, certainly that is something we would like to explore.
05:05At the moment, this has been charity-funded for the transplants.
05:09But I certainly know that that's what a transplant in the UK
05:13would want to consider for the future.
05:16But clearly, that has to be political decisions.
05:18Yeah, because there's some people contacting the show this morning
05:21and saying, well, you know, I've been waiting two years for a knee operation.
05:24I've been waiting for a transplant that would save my life.
05:27Why should, that phrase, why should a couple like this
05:30be given this kind of treatment on the NHS?
05:31It does raise ethical questions, doesn't it?
05:35I can see that point of view.
05:36But just, again, to reassure you and your viewers,
05:40that the transplant itself was charity-funded.
05:45Doctors like myself gave up our time and our free time to care.
05:49And so it wasn't taking away any care from somebody else.
05:53So they didn't, it wasn't, someone else was delayed because of this.
05:57The other ethical dilemma, Brian, is this idea that maybe men transitioning
06:04to be a trans woman might want a womb.
06:07There's been some research of this in other countries.
06:09Can you picture a time, and the charity that's funded this
06:12has said categorically on their website,
06:14that is not something we endorse in the foreseeable future, they say.
06:16But can you see a time when men might be able to receive a womb
06:21and then give birth, biological male?
06:23I can't see that in any near future, both in the UK or worldwide.
06:30Yeah.
06:30The hormonal implications, you have to.
06:33You fancy it, Andrew.
06:35Look on his face.
06:36How, for the baby, just the same as any other baby,
06:43I mean, is she, is she, is she,
06:45what's it going to make a difference to her life, do you think,
06:47knowing that she's the first ever in this country to be born in this way?
06:52I mean, there have been other firsts, for example, the first IVF baby.
06:55And so I wouldn't imagine that she will,
06:58she will have a lovely, fulfilling life with great parents.
07:01And I wish only the very best for her.
07:03And maybe another baby?
07:04We have to wait and see.
07:06A little sister, a little brother?
07:07We have to wait and see.
07:08You're up for doing it again, if they're up for it?
07:10Absolutely.
07:11Absolutely.
07:12It was, did you know it was on the front page of the paper this morning?
07:16Like, when did you see this and realise what a big story it was?
07:18I have to say, as a doctor, probably not very, a bit naive,
07:21did not anticipate this was going to be such an enormous story,
07:24but obviously clearly delighted and very respectful
07:28that they've chosen to go public with their story.
07:31Because originally they wanted to remain anonymous, didn't they?
07:33Anyway, what do you think changed that decision on their part?
07:38Do you have any idea why they then said, we don't mind?
07:40Because it was a success story, presumably.
07:42I genuinely don't know.
07:44I genuinely don't know, but clearly supportive.
07:46Because I'm interested in the figure you gave,
07:48one in 5,000 women without a womb.
07:49This would be a great encouragement to those women who read this story
07:52and think that could potentially be me.
07:55That's a very good reason to go public with this story, I think.
07:58I think so, and I think that clearly there are some women
08:01who are born without a womb, but other women might have lost their womb
08:04due to cancer or other conditions.
08:06And this also gives them a hope of potentially carrying a pregnancy.
08:09Yeah.
08:10Just take me back to the moment then, when the caesarean was performed
08:13at Queen Charlotte's Hospital around the corner.
08:15And you have that quiet, don't you, in a delivery suite like that,
08:19in the ward, in the surgical room, when you're delivering the baby.
08:24What was that like when she emerged?
08:27It was really important that it was a quiet moment.
08:31And you can imagine in a big room where there were lots of people,
08:34actually noise control was really important, but it was really special.
08:38It was that special, magical moment, and it was really delightful.
08:42And did they know it was a girl or a boy, or did they not know?
08:45I can't remember, actually.
08:47Ah, I'd be fascinated to know.
08:48Yeah, I imagine they probably didn't mind either way.
08:51No.
08:51I don't think that was important.
08:52All they had been through, they would just be happy and grateful.
08:56Well, it is a miracle of modern medicine, Bryony.
08:59And you're part of it.
09:01I'm a very small part of a very large team.