Andy Kim Asks Trump Nom Point Blank If Elon Musk 'Should Be Held To The Standards Of The Hatch Act'

4/3/2025

During a Senate Homeland Security Committee hearing on Thursday, Sen. Andy Kim (D-NJ) spoke about Elon Musk and Hatch Act, which limits partisan political activity of civilian employees in the Executive Branch.

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Transcript

00:00bring those both up and very briefly, Mr. Chairman. Yes, absolutely. We're

00:03committed to both of those. Obviously, the president has spoken very directly

00:06on these things. And at O. M. B. We are well underway. And if I've just be

00:11confirmed, dive deep on implementing those, those thrusts, those steers.

00:19Senator Kim. Thank you, Chairman and Mr. Chair. I just wanted also just flag

00:25that. I also agree with my colleagues that the importance of this committee

00:30taking action to be able to shine a light on what happened in terms of this

00:34administration's use of unsecure, unclassified commercial channels,

00:38including signal and Gmail. I think that this is something that's important,

00:42something that we should be investigating, something that we should

00:44have a hearing on in this committee. So I urge the chairman to work with us to

00:49be able to bring that to light. Um, Mr Cooper, I wanted to just start with you.

00:54Enjoyed our conversation. Appreciated the chance to talk with you. And one

00:57thing that we talked about is the importance of the federal workforce

01:02being clear that it serves the American people right that we need to make sure

01:05that there is no question that the workforce is serving the American

01:10people. Is that correct? Yes, Senator. While so I told you I was a civil

01:15servant, so I worked in the federal civil service. One thing that was made

01:21very clear to us is that those serving our country working in this, having

01:25access to the information of our country that we were barred from

01:29political activity, campaigning, other things like that through the Hatch Act.

01:32Do you recognize the importance of that separation? Yes, Senator. I guess I

01:36wanted to just ask you then, should Elon must be held to the same standard

01:41as the rest of those that serve our country? Um, I don't know specifically

01:46with respect to the issues you're talking about with Elon. But in

01:49general, yes, I think anybody who serves the federal government should

01:52comply with all the rules and all the regulations that are appropriate to

01:54that employee of the government. Do you think someone with the level of access

01:57that Elon Musk has had, including participating cabinet meetings, that he

02:03should be subject or at least held to the standards of the Hatch Act? Again,

02:08I don't know what the Hatch Act. I don't know where the limitations of the

02:11Hatch Act are or not, but I would say my understanding is he's employed as a

02:14special government employee, and I'm sure there's a set of rules and

02:17regulations that apply that, you know, I would expect that he would comply

02:19with. Well, I would hope, you know, the O. P. M. Was the one that sent me the

02:22guidance about the Hatch Act when I was in government. And so, you know, I

02:26certainly asked that you engage on that. But just from a standpoint here, I

02:30mean, like, look like I went home and I did some town halls throughout New

02:33Jersey, and people were just asking me, Look, he's got government contracts.

02:38You know, he's getting money. He's got business before our government now

02:43having access to so much of the information within the government and

02:47also, you know, campaigning actively around the country.

02:52That unsettles me.

02:55It, to me, seems very clearly crossing the line of what a government employee

03:01or someone who is serving this country, whatever capacity, whatever title he

03:04has, the fact that he has this much access to our government has so much

03:09influence within our government. I wanted to ask you, does it bother you?

03:14Look again, I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I don't know what

03:17the restrictions are with respect to his work via the Hatch Act. What I can

03:21tell you is a general matter is anybody who is a federal employee. I strongly

03:25believe in O. P. M. Will support this, that they should follow all the rules

03:28and all the regulations, including the Hatch Act. And if there are violations

03:31of that, then those should be dealt with appropriately. Well, look, I'd like

03:33to follow up with you on that if you're confirmed. But what I what I was trying

03:38to convey here is just a sense of just get a sense of from you how this feels

03:44to you. You know, if you share the discomfort, I mean, my constituents in

03:49New Jersey, you know, they don't know the ins and outs either of the hatchet,

03:52but they could tell that this isn't right. And that's just something that I

03:56wanted to flag for you, Mr. Elon. I want to just ask you what your thoughts were

04:02in terms of the dismantling of USAID and whether or not you thought that was

04:06lawful. You worked at the State Department. You've been engaged in

04:08foreign assistance. What do you think was how do you think the

04:13administration handled that? And do you think it was lawful? I do think it's

04:17lawful, and the court has affirmed the decisions of the secretary in that

04:21regard. USAID has been effectively shuttered and certain key roles and

04:27responsibilities removed to the Department of State with the

04:30secretary's insistence that appropriate health and life saving programs will

04:34continue under the direction of the Department of State. Do you think that the

04:38administration has the same authorities to be able to, for

04:42instance, close and abolish the Department of Education? Senator, I would

04:48expect that the courts ultimately will have a voice on this, but there are a

04:52variety of statutes, not just creating the Department of Education, but also

04:56reduction in force that clearly are going to be invoked as part of the

05:00process of reducing the footprint of the Department of Education and finding

05:05ways to return authority and responsibility of education programs to

05:09states. Chairman, I'll yield back. We're gonna go to Senator Moreno next, and I

05:17may have to leave for a few minutes.

Andy Kim Asks Trump Nom Point Blank If Elon Musk 'Should Be Held To The Standards Of The Hatch Act'

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