The European Commissioner Vice-President for Technology denies that EU digital rules run counter to freedom of speech. In an interview with Euronews, she said these laws are just setting obligations for online platforms to assess systematic risks. "We are not regulating the content at all," she said
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00:00My guest on the Europe Conversation this week is Henne Verkoenen, Executive Vice President
00:12of the European Commission for Tech Sovereignty, Security and Democracy.
00:16She says the EU fully intends to apply its regulations against social media companies
00:22despite criticisms from the United States that they impinge on freedom of expression.
00:29So Henne Verkoenen, EU Commissioner and Executive Vice President on Tech Sovereignty, Security
00:34and Democracy.
00:35Thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.
00:38It's a pleasure to be here.
00:39And can I ask you, first of all, obviously you have such an important mandate right now
00:44at this particular moment in time when there's such fears about disinformation, interference
00:49in democracy, mal-information, a mal-business practice where the EU has specific toolboxes,
00:56the Digital Services Act and the Digital Markets Act.
00:59Can you guarantee that the EU will ensure that these are rigorously applied to all industries,
01:05particularly social media industries, particularly those based in the United States?
01:09Yes, of course.
01:10We are now fully implementing and enforcing our rules when it comes to Digital Services
01:15Act, for example.
01:16And it's a very important tool, I see, because nowadays digital platforms, they play a very
01:22important role when we look at our society or our economy.
01:25And in the European Union, we want to make sure that also our digital environment is
01:29safe and fair and democratic.
01:32And that's why we have put certain legislations into place and now we are enforcing them.
01:37Because they come under so much attack from the likes of Elon Musk, who has a specifically
01:41important role in the US administration.
01:44Are you concerned that if the EU is to go what they see is too harshly against the likes
01:49of X, that there may be retaliation?
01:51We heard, for example, Vice President J.D.
01:53Vance saying that the US could pull support for Ukraine if the EU goes after X, as they
01:59see it.
02:00Of course, all the actions what we are taking, they have to be based to our legislation.
02:05And our rules are very fair because they are same rules for everybody who is operating
02:10and doing business in the European Union.
02:12So we have same rules for the European companies, for American companies, for the Chinese
02:16companies, because we want to make sure that we have also a fair and democratic, safe
02:20environment when it comes to our digital field.
02:23And for example, everything what is illegal in our societies in the European Union, it's
02:27also illegal in our online world.
02:30So what would you, what are your concerns around the likes of X and so on when it comes
02:34to algorithms, for example?
02:37Of course, this is something also what we have been now investigating from the
02:40commission side, especially the recommender system, for example, on different online
02:45platforms, because they have very much power, what kind of content they are showing for
02:50the citizens. And one of our main principles in our rules is that we are, we have set
02:55obligation for online platforms that they have to assess and mitigate the systematic
03:00risks, for example, what they are posing to our democratic systems, to our civic discourse,
03:04for our well-being, and also that they have to be transparent.
03:07For example, when it comes to recommender system, that the user knows why certain
03:11content is shown for her or him, and the user has to have also possibility to choose.
03:17And how much reaction have you had from the social media companies?
03:21Because we saw Meta, for example, say that they're going to get rid of fact checkers, for
03:25example. And then we saw concerns that Elon Musk may be changing the algorithm to allow
03:30for more far-right, disruptive information, malinformation on his social media
03:36platform. But they haven't really responded positively to the EU concerns.
03:41When it comes to Meta, they have confirmed that they will continue with the fact checkers
03:45in the European Union.
03:47And when it comes to X, in January, I made the decision that we were asking more
03:51information from X on their recommender system and what kind of changes there has been.
03:56So we have currently 10 investigations going on against very large online platforms
04:02where we are checking that if they are complying with our rules.
04:06And in the same time, we are also working all the time with online platforms with
04:09different guidelines and workshops and code of conduct and so on.
04:13So we have all the time different parts going on, how we are enforcing the rules with
04:18them. But I guess the question is, what kind of response might you get given that J.D.
04:23Vance has said if the EU comes after X, then there could be consequences for the U.S.
04:30support for Ukraine? Everything is intertwined at the moment, isn't this?
04:33I think it's important to underline that we are not going after anyone.
04:37We want to make sure that everybody is complying with our rules in the European Union,
04:42that they are respecting our rules and that we are now investigating.
04:45And that's why we are having a dialogue all the time going on with the online platforms.
04:51And have they responded positively with the investigation into X, for example, which
04:54started in December 23 and then was expanded just January this year.
04:59How is that investigation going?
05:00Are you getting the proper responses and engagement from X?
05:04Normally, it's always the case with the industries that everybody is protecting their
05:09business idea very much, of course, and their business interest.
05:12But yes, the online platforms, they are, of course, they are cooperating with the European
05:16Commission because European Union is the biggest or second biggest market for most of
05:23them. So European Union is super important market for the digital platforms.
05:27And many of them, they have more users in the European Union than they have, for example,
05:32in USA. So, of course, it's very important for them to comply with our rules.
05:36And would you be concerned at all that there might be a retaliation from the US
05:39government? Like, will you take that into account when there's a decision around what
05:44type or how big a fine may be if they're found in breach, that it wouldn't be so high
05:50that they might, that the Americans might say, well, you're attacking us.
05:53We're going to respond accordingly.
05:55These legislations, when we speak about digital markets acts and digital service act,
05:59they are very new legislations and we are now making first decisions based on them.
06:04So, of course, we want to make sure we want to be sure always when we are making
06:08decisions that we have to have very strong legal basis of all the decisions and we want
06:14to make sure. Some of those people, JD Vance again, but others in the United States
06:19would say that these rules are, in fact, an impression, an impact on freedom of
06:24expression and that the EU is trying to curtail freedom of expression by imposing these
06:30laws, particularly in the DSA.
06:31What would you say to that?
06:33That is not correct.
06:34So there is misunderstanding if if some of the citizens or some of the decision makers
06:41that we are limiting freedom of speech with these rules because we are protecting freedom
06:46of speech with our rules.
06:48And the DSA, it's not about content there.
06:50We are just setting obligation for online platforms that they have to have practices in
06:54place that how they make sure that they are mitigating the assessing, the systematic
06:59risks, how they make sure that they are not spreading this information.
07:04So we are not we are not regulating the content at all.
07:10And then just one of the watershed moments, of course, recently was the Romanian
07:13election. There was an investigation into TikTok in relation to potentially paid bots
07:20and so on, or paid people who had elevated an ultra-nationalist contender for
07:27presidency, which was subsequently annulled.
07:29Tell us a little bit about that investigation, because that is something that has
07:31worried, I suppose, lawmakers and governments all across Europe and beyond.
07:36We have to make sure that online platforms, they are not misused or manipulated during
07:40the elections. And that's why it's very important that they are also very well prepared
07:45for the electoral processes.
07:47And that's why we are always suggesting for the member states that before elections,
07:52they are organizing so-called roundtable with online platforms and with the local
07:58authorities, with the NGOs.
08:00And then they are checking the risks of the elections, that how different online
08:06platforms are prepared for that.
08:07For example, in Germany, they organized that before elections, but they also carried out
08:13so-called risk tests before the elections to really see that how the different online
08:20platforms, how they are prepared and how they are reacting to different things, what
08:25can happen during the electoral campaigns.
08:28And also in Romania, now they are organizing that kind of event with online platforms
08:33where they are checking. So it's important that we are we are preparing for the elections
08:37with the national authorities and with online platforms and also that online platforms
08:41that they make sure that they are not misused or manipulated and they are transparent
08:46during the electoral processes.
08:48And you're confident that the EU will not resile from implementing the DSA and DMA,
08:54if, where and when needed, despite the confrontation with the United States?
09:00It's super important for us that we are fully enforcing DMA and DSA, because when it
09:05comes to DMA there, we want to make sure that the big players, that they are not the
09:11dominant players, they are not misusing their market power, that also new innovations
09:17can enter to the markets in the European Union.
09:19And DSA is very much for making sure that illegal content and products are taken down
09:25and we have safe and democratic, fair environment.
09:28So I want to just ask you about something you announced this week at the European
09:31Parliament, the EU's internal security strategy.
09:34I suppose one part of it links to what we've seen recently, which was an investigation
09:39into Huawei or allegations of corruption, of bribery against EU officials or members
09:46of the European Parliament.
09:47This sort of aligns with that, doesn't it?
09:49Can you tell us a little bit about what the EU now needs to do to ensure that things
09:53like this don't happen again?
09:54And what is the internal strategy?
09:56Of course, it's important when it comes to different lobbying activities that we are
10:01following all the transparency rules different institutions are having.
10:05And of course, here we are now following the investigations on this case, that what has
10:10happened. But when it comes to our security environment as a whole, the reason
10:18why we wanted to update our internal security strategy was that the security environment
10:24is very alarming.
10:26Our citizens in the European Union, they are worried about security.
10:29In the latest Eurobarometer, 64 percent of the citizens said that they are worried about
10:35security. And also we can see that the security threats, they are now much more
10:40international and they are also very digital side.
10:44And just on the internal security strategy, what is the most fearful threats facing the
10:48EU in relation to that?
10:50Is it critical infrastructure attacks, cyber attacks, you know, hybrid war?
10:55And that is, I think, quite interesting question that what is the biggest threat?
10:59Because nowadays we can see that there is many different threats in the same time.
11:06Like you were listing, we have been witnessing a sabotage to our critical infrastructure.
11:12We have all the time massive cyber attacks towards the European Union.
11:16Also migrants, they have been used as a weapons on our external borders.
11:21And of course, in the same time, we have different organized crime, terrorist groups and so
11:25on. So we have to be prepared for many, many different kind of threats.
11:29And that's why we have to closely cooperate together.
11:33And also from the commission side, we now decided that always when we are making now
11:38new legal actions, we will include also the security assessment as a part of our impact
11:44assessment of two of different legislations.
11:46OK, Commissioner Hanna Verhoenen, Executive Vice President for Tech Sovereignty, Security
11:51and Democracy. Thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.