Visit our website:
http://www.france24.com
Like us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/France24_en
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00OpenAI is facing a complaint about its chatbot, ChatGPT, after a Norwegian man
00:06who decided to find out if the app had any information on him went and asked it
00:10and it replied that he was in fact a criminal who had killed his two sons and
00:14been sent to prison. The very fake story worryingly contained some real elements
00:19notably the name and ages of the children for example. Well we're joined
00:22now by this man, Arve Hjalmar Holman. Thanks so much for joining us. Can you
00:27tell me a bit more of exactly what happened? If I've understood correctly
00:30you were a bit bored and instead of googling yourself you decided to see
00:34what ChatGPT had on you. Good morning. Yes, what happened was that like many
00:42other people I was curious about what kind of result I would get if I would
00:49ask the question who is Arve Hjalmar Holman, so my name, and I had done it a
00:56couple of times and it gave me various results and sometimes it was like this
01:04you know the thing many other people also have got, like it says this is
01:09probably not a public figure, I don't find any information about this person
01:13and sometimes it just cooked up something. It told me I was a politician
01:20which I'm not, that I was a CEO which I'm not, I was an important scientist which
01:28I'm not, mixed with this you know I don't have any information. But all of a
01:35sudden at a certain moment it showed me this message where it said that I had
01:41killed two of my three children in Trondheim and that's the city where I
01:49was born and this was a mix of real elements and hallucinations, crazy
01:59disgusting hallucinations and my first reaction was that, well my first reaction
02:07was shock, like this is creepy because it's eerily similar to my own life
02:14except for the fact that I have never done anything criminal and I'm not
02:18absolutely not a murderer and I love my children more than anything on this
02:23earth. After the shock I got worried that other people would get the same or
02:31similar output if they would ask the same question and then I wondered will
02:39other people get something similar if they ask about themselves. Indeed it
02:45makes us all try to kind of think about it because as you say to be compared to
02:50like to be say oh maybe it's a politician I mean I don't know how
02:52unique your name is but I could see how in other cases at least you know a Tom
02:57Jones might there might be a lot of them out there and it might make references
02:59to other people with the same name but the worrying thing in your case is the
03:03fact that it started to bring in real-life elements and then make some
03:07fictional story about it. I believe you've, because of your worry about
03:11how people would perceive what you read, you have launched a case against it. Yes
03:16first of all my name is unique yeah there are several Arve Holmans or
03:24several I don't know three or four or something there's some Hjalmar Holman
03:29people running around at least one but there's only one Arve Hjalmar Holman
03:35so there is no doubt that when you ask the question who is Arve Hjalmar Holman
03:39according to European legislation that's what I've been told by people who
03:44have more legal expertise than myself that I am entitled to get a correct
03:49answer. I should not be accused of murder at least I know you know I didn't mind
03:57being wrongly accused of being a CEO or a politician or anything like that I
04:03just found it funny that's what many people experience you know so I tried to
04:11find out if this is illegal apart from being immoral so I checked out who did
04:22anyone have experience with anything similar like this and then I bumped into
04:28NOYB and then I remembered yeah NOYB was this case I had read about in the past
04:34something about GDPR and this guy Max guy. None of your business I think it's
04:39an organization yeah that has looked at cases similar cases in the past. Yes so I
04:44found them and I contacted them with a simple question is this legal and they
04:51told me no it's not legal and we would like to take your case to well we would
04:58like to file a complaint with the DPA in Norway, DataTils unit because I'm a
05:04Norwegian citizen or I have a Norwegian passport so so they did and then the
05:12ball started rolling and here we are. And what is your goal with with this case
05:18where do you think it will lead where do you hope it will lead? Well because I was
05:23starting to get worried about what other people might get I can just imagine
05:31different scenarios you know people who are more fragile vulnerable than I am
05:37people who don't have my resources who become victims of this because other
05:45people could ask a question about someone else and get some kind of output
05:51like this some disgusting output and I think that you can also feed this this
06:00LLM with questions and stuff and it's like it gets it sticks in the system so
06:10it can be reproduced or used for further hallucinations and I'm just I'm just
06:18wondering what will happen if someone really wants to bully someone. But do you
06:25think that sufficient securities I mean I don't know your line of work I mean I
06:29do think your reaction as you say might be the reaction everyone had to be in
06:32that position to be able to take it on and push that case forward but do you
06:36think enough securities can be put on this kind of application? You mean what
06:42what the technological the solution could be to this? Well that's not my job
06:49it's not NOIB's job it's not European citizens job it's the it's the job of
06:54these people who have created this mess this legal mess. So it's to have legal
06:59resources is the main thing for the case would you continue are you continuing to
07:04use the app? I am very hesitant I don't I don't want to play around with it
07:16anymore to be honest I don't trust it and as we have filed a complaint
07:23against the company behind the app I'm very trying to be very careful. Indeed
07:29I'm just wondering in details of that case do you have any idea for the timing
07:33or any reaction from the company in question? No I don't know I don't have
07:39any experience with this these kind of things so well I mean it for the long run
07:46so you know I'm not going to give up because although I was shocked and I'm
07:51still worried about the whole thing I'm hopeful because I feel supported by NOIB
07:59I feel supported by my family and including my three children who are very
08:04much alive. Yeah shocking for them as you say as well and it's great to hear that
08:10you do have the support and of course EU data protection law stipulates that
08:13personal data does have to be accurate so Arve Jalmarl Holmund thanks so much
08:18for your time and telling us a bit more and maybe keep in touch and let me let
08:21us know how how the case progresses but indeed thanks very much for your time.
08:25Will do, thanks for having me. Thank you.