#sawalyehhai #pmshehbazsharif #asimmunir #nationalsecuritycommittee #parliamentarycommittee
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Senator Walid Iqbal PTI
- Barrister Aqeel Malik PMLN
- Senator Kamran Murtaza JUIF
- Syed Mohammad Ali (Analyst)
- Muhammad Amir Rana (Analyst)
"Akhtar Mengal Ko Bhi Ijlas Mein Shirkat Ki Dawat Di Gai Magar...", Barrister Aqeel Malik
"Hum Chahtay Thay Kay Humari Imran Khan Say Mulqat Hojaye...", Walid Iqbal
"Govt Kay Pas Yeh Capacity Bhi Nahi Hai Kay...", Kamran Murtaza's Big Statement
Terrorism in Pakistan - Is another National Action Plan needed?
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Senator Walid Iqbal PTI
- Barrister Aqeel Malik PMLN
- Senator Kamran Murtaza JUIF
- Syed Mohammad Ali (Analyst)
- Muhammad Amir Rana (Analyst)
"Akhtar Mengal Ko Bhi Ijlas Mein Shirkat Ki Dawat Di Gai Magar...", Barrister Aqeel Malik
"Hum Chahtay Thay Kay Humari Imran Khan Say Mulqat Hojaye...", Walid Iqbal
"Govt Kay Pas Yeh Capacity Bhi Nahi Hai Kay...", Kamran Murtaza's Big Statement
Terrorism in Pakistan - Is another National Action Plan needed?
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:30This is such a big possibility. Is any kind of consensus possible at this point in time?
00:36We will discuss this as well.
00:38Finally, why was there no action taken on NAP 1?
00:40We are talking about NAP 2, but we will share NAP 1 with you again.
00:45A consensus document was presented in 2014.
00:49And what did we do with that document?
00:51On national issues, political parties also need to be united with all stakeholders.
00:56This is not something to be said. This is a given. Everyone should know this.
01:00But unfortunately, this is not possible in Pakistan.
01:04Even after the Jaffar Express incident, no joint declaration has been made by the political parties in this country.
01:12If we break this down, on one hand, there is the government.
01:15The government held a meeting and called for justice.
01:18At first, they wanted to go, but they did not go.
01:20They said, Mr. Fazlur Rahman has left.
01:22Nationalist parties did not go to the meeting.
01:24So, they could not make a consensus government.
01:26The declaration that came from the government,
01:29despite that, the JYA had to give a separate clarification.
01:32The ANP had to give a separate clarification.
01:35So, the consensus declaration that should have come from the government, did not come.
01:41Nor could they bridge the gap between the nationalist parties and the state and the government.
01:47This is the government's misdeed.
01:49On the other hand, if we talk about the opposition,
01:51we see a lack of any kind of unity.
01:55Tariq-e-Insaaf first agreed to go to this meeting,
01:58and then boycotted this meeting without informing Maulana's party.
02:03Because the thought was that it would be a joint strategy.
02:05All political parties would decide on the opposition together.
02:08But Tariq-e-Insaaf made its own decision.
02:10They did not take the rest of the people with them or on board.
02:13And this is not the first time.
02:15And this is not the first time that the consensus document
02:19is not being taken under confidence by the other parties.
02:25So, if we look at both sides, there is a lack of unity.
02:28And on the government's side, where Tariq-e-Insaaf is taunted for not coming,
02:33their own interior minister and their own mainstream leader,
02:36Mian Muhammad Nawaz Sharif, also participated in that meeting.
02:39So, more or less, what is emerging here is that
02:42is it possible to bring any kind of consensus document, consensus announcement
02:47to the forefront or to agree on it or not?
02:52Even in 2014, there was an extremely polarized government.
02:56Despite that, we were able to make a national action plan.
02:59Is it possible now?
03:01We will talk to the first members of the program.
03:03We have with us Professor Aqeel Malik Sahib,
03:04Amalikat Barahi Kanur-e-Insaaf,
03:06Senator Waleed Iqbal Sahib,
03:07Rehanmah-e-Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaaf,
03:09Senator Kamran Murtaza Sahib will be with us.
03:11And from here, the operation will be new, old,
03:14whether it will happen or not,
03:15even on this wordplay,
03:17either there was confusion or it was created,
03:19we will take clarity on this as well.
03:21Barish Sahib, let us start with you.
03:22Where are we standing right now?
03:24The alarm that has come from the government,
03:27clearly, the nationalist communities do not endorse it.
03:30In the opposition, you remove Tariq-e-Insaaf on one side.
03:32He is your traditional Harif.
03:34His next level is your opposition to him right now.
03:38But the other communities, more or less,
03:40do not enthusiastically align with you.
03:43It seems that the People's Party and PMLN
03:46are standing with this alarm,
03:48but the other communities are not present there.
03:50So, you are alone.
03:51How will you build this consensus?
03:55Bismillah-ir-Rahman-ir-Rahim.
03:56Mariya Sahiba, thank you very much.
03:57Mariya Sahiba, not only the People's Party and PMLN,
04:00but if you see the other communities as well,
04:02Ba Party,
04:03PMLQ,
04:06IPP,
04:08MQM,
04:09all those communities are standing with the government
04:13and are in unity with the government
04:16on treasury benches.
04:18If you look at the opposition,
04:20the opposition has been invited.
04:23Their parliamentary leaders have been invited.
04:26But apart from one or two parties,
04:30or apart from three parties,
04:32whose representative has only one seat,
04:35apart from that,
04:37there was a PTI.
04:38Nationalist parties are very big stakeholders in this matter.
04:42Whether they have a seat or not,
04:44whether they have representation or not,
04:46but if the solution to this whole matter is found,
04:49it will be found by the on-board of nationalist parties.
04:51You are absolutely right.
04:52You are right.
04:53This complaint cannot be on the government,
04:55because the government tried.
04:57When the government did all these things,
05:00first of all,
05:01this is a committee,
05:02a special committee,
05:03a parliamentary committee on national security,
05:06which does not exist in a normal course of action.
05:08All political parties were formed.
05:11Then the big opposition party, PTI,
05:14was asked to make a list.
05:16They made a list.
05:17I myself am an eyewitness.
05:18Their parliamentary leadership came to the Speaker's office
05:21and they finalized the names there
05:24sitting with our leadership.
05:26Then they started fighting over the names.
05:29They said, put my name.
05:30No, put my name.
05:31I should have it.
05:32Our principle was that
05:34give preference to those members from KP and Balochistan.
05:38And it should be given.
05:40Because they are on the receiving end.
05:43They have suffered the most
05:45amidst all this surge and the terrorist attacks.
05:47Then on the 11th hour at night,
05:49all the leadership gave the same statement.
05:51And everyone said that we will definitely go.
05:53National security is such a matter
05:55on which we are committed.
05:57We should have our input.
05:59Then on the 11th hour,
06:01it was decided that no.
06:03And the next day when we met Imran Khan,
06:07he also said that you did a very good job.
06:09You did not go.
06:10Now there was no decisive action or plan.
06:15There was just an in-camera briefing.
06:17And he was stating the limits of where we actually stand.
06:21What are the ground realities?
06:23And where are we standing?
06:24What is it that we are up against?
06:26All these things had to come forward.
06:28And everyone said what they had to say.
06:29It came forward.
06:30And even after that announcement,
06:31why did the JOI and ANP have to clarify again?
06:34Wasn't there an agreement there?
06:36This makes you look very incoherent.
06:39Even those who came to the meeting,
06:42they don't know what statement you are giving.
06:47Look, I think the announcements should be the same.
06:51There should not be different announcements.
06:53But I have seen their announcements.
06:55I think perhaps their point of view,
06:58which they wanted to distinctify,
07:00or they wanted to show it separately or clearly,
07:04or they wanted to tell it,
07:05maybe that announcement was incomplete.
07:09Or it could not be highlighted.
07:13There is nothing like that.
07:15We have said that all political parties are united.
07:18All political leaders are united on the fact
07:20that there is no compromise on national security.
07:24But I think they probably thought,
07:26why is it in their sense,
07:28that it would be better to highlight
07:31their separate point of view,
07:33from their party's perspective.
07:35So they highlighted it.
07:37That is why they issued their separate announcements.
07:39Right.
07:40Mr. Waleed Iqbal,
07:41the situation is that
07:42either the power of decision in you is weak,
07:44or because Mr. Imran Khan is in jail,
07:46if someone has to make a firm decision
07:48on a single policy,
07:49then it is a capacity issue.
07:51First you decide,
07:52we will go to the meeting.
07:53Then you decide,
07:54we will not go to the meeting.
07:55Fair enough,
07:56you are a member of the Jamaat.
07:57You can tell us
07:58what is the decision making process behind this.
08:00But you do not even inform your allies.
08:03You did not tell Maulana Sahib.
08:05Mr. Achak Zahid told you
08:06that you should not go.
08:07And then you probably decided
08:09because of other pressures.
08:11Is there any compromise
08:13in making decisions
08:15with your allies?
08:20No, there is no issue
08:24of power of decision
08:27or capacity.
08:29The report has been made wrong.
08:31I am a witness to some things.
08:33Let me tell you first
08:35that the list was given
08:38because of the limited time
08:40due to Ramadan.
08:41Our two bodies had to meet
08:43and deliberate on this.
08:45The parliamentary party
08:47had a meeting in the day
08:49and the political committee
08:51had a meeting in the evening
08:53and continued till 2.30 am.
08:55Since the list was given,
08:57the speaker's office was supposed
08:59to open at 1 am.
09:01So we gave the list.
09:03But the decision was
09:05that there will be participation
09:07but there will be conditions.
09:09What was the condition?
09:11The condition was that
09:13we meet the chairman first
09:15and Omar Ayub Khan,
09:17the opposition leader,
09:19wrote to the speaker
09:21and informed him
09:23that the parliamentary party
09:25and the political committee
09:27had a meeting in the day
09:29and continued till night.
09:31The decision was that
09:33there will be participation
09:35but there will be conditions
09:37so that we can get guidance
09:39and input from the chairman.
09:41This was our decision
09:43but when we were not given
09:45access to the list,
09:47our opposition,
09:49which includes
09:51the Pashtoon Khwa
09:53Milli Awami Party,
09:55MWM,
09:57SIC,
09:59and BNP,
10:01I don't know
10:03if this has been
10:05made public or not,
10:07but there were other
10:09opposition parties
10:11who were also concerned
10:13that some decisions
10:15have already been made
10:17and it was not necessary
10:19for the PTI to make a statement
10:21but it was the case of other parties
10:23that we will legitimize
10:25those decisions
10:27because those decisions
10:29have already been made.
10:31But there is an anomaly
10:33which I would like to clarify.
10:35Mr. Gandapur was present
10:37in that meeting as the CM
10:39because he holds
10:41a constitutional office.
10:43But his presence there
10:45does not mean that
10:47he will endorse those policies.
10:49He went there and held
10:51his position there.
10:53Yes, he held his position there
10:55and that was an in-camera meeting
10:57but my information is that
10:59it was a very strict position.
11:01My answer has not been complete yet.
11:03I just want to say that
11:05the government knew
11:07what our conditions were
11:09and they could have easily
11:11done that.
11:13When they had to send
11:15Azam Swati and other leaders
11:17to the jail,
11:19they did not take any action
11:21on that.
11:23The second thing is that
11:25you are absolutely right
11:27that when this happened
11:29and the committee meeting
11:31took place,
11:33all the announcements
11:35that took place,
11:37why did JUIF and ANP
11:39give their clarifications separately?
11:41Because those announcements
11:43were not shown to them before.
11:45But Senator,
11:47what I want to say specifically
11:49is that your CM went to that meeting
11:51and he held a strict position.
11:53You said this and this is my information.
11:55If you had left the space
11:57and you would have gone there
11:59and held this position
12:01and recorded your protest
12:03or you would have given
12:05clarifications in those announcements
12:07and you would have told us
12:09what policies you can endorse
12:11and who you disagree with.
12:13Do you think this is a politically wise decision?
12:17Look, there are
12:19some opinions on this.
12:21I cannot completely disagree with you
12:23but I think it is important
12:25to stand with one thing
12:27and then I will address
12:29the second thing that you are saying.
12:31JUIF and ANP
12:33decided on the
12:35competent authority
12:37of the parliamentary party
12:39and political committee.
12:41There were two or three
12:43different opinions.
12:45Out of 27,
12:4724 said that
12:49participation has to be conditional
12:51and only the chairman
12:53should have access.
12:55But I agree with what you are saying.
12:57Shah Mehmood Qureshi
12:59wrote in a long letter
13:01and it has been published
13:03on Manzar-e-Aam that
13:05there are some voices
13:07who feel that they should have
13:09participated.
13:11But then you realize
13:13that those who participated
13:15the government did what it wanted
13:17and there are allies
13:19like ANP.
13:21They were a part of it
13:23but the announcements
13:25were issued without showing
13:27their participation.
13:29This is what happened.
13:31The reservation of other parties
13:33like BNP and PKMAP was also
13:35right in its place.
13:37But I want to repeat
13:39that there was no issue
13:41of power, decision and capacity.
13:43We informed the government
13:45that participation was conditional
13:47and they did not accept it.
13:49It would have been better
13:51if they had participated
13:53but it would have been better
13:55if they had participated.
13:57It is a very balanced point of view.
13:59It is a very balanced point of view
14:01that they should have participated
14:03and the government should have
14:05believed that these are
14:07consensus decisions
14:09and you need high level
14:11engagement.
14:13You cannot make a country's
14:15popular political party
14:17strange and make such decisions.
14:19Thank you very much
14:21for joining us.
14:23Do you think that
14:25a consensus can be built
14:27and if you have to deal
14:29with such a big security
14:31challenges, do you think
14:33that the government
14:35has the capacity
14:37and political capital
14:39or not?
14:41The government does not
14:43have the capacity
14:45to draft resolutions.
14:47They do not know
14:49that after such a meeting
14:51a committee is formed
14:53that drafts the resolution
14:55and the parties that
14:57participate in it
14:59get approval from them.
15:01Or if someone has to
15:03mention something
15:05they get it mentioned.
15:07They do not even know
15:09that they issue a resolution
15:11in the name of others
15:13and after 15 minutes
15:15it becomes clear
15:17that we have nothing to do with it.
15:19Have you ever seen
15:21such an insult
15:23to the government?
15:25We have not seen it before.
15:27We have small conventions
15:29and if we have to
15:31decide something
15:33then different groups
15:35sit together
15:37and then
15:39after deciding
15:41we open it so that
15:43no one contradicts it.
15:45When we reached home
15:47it was a declaration
15:49and after 15 minutes
15:51we gave a clarification.
15:53Do you think
15:55that the government
15:57wants to build
15:59a consensus
16:01at some point?
16:03Do you see their intention
16:05to build a consensus?
16:07I don't think so.
16:09The reason is that
16:11the work that was done
16:13with us,
16:15and the speech of Maulana
16:17based on the
16:19Akhora Khatak speech
16:21or based on his
16:23cleverness
16:25we tried to
16:27build an impression
16:29that we have conceded.
16:31In this way
16:33things go wrong
16:35and these cleverness
16:37are not beneficial.
16:39The PTI could have
16:41been engaged
16:43but they did not have
16:45the capacity to engage
16:47other parties.
16:49We are a bit soft
16:51about the government
16:53and we are not
16:55in a tough relationship
16:57with the PTI
16:59or the opposition.
17:01We could have
17:03been engaged
17:05and we could have
17:07been told
17:09to engage
17:11other parties.
17:13We could have
17:15found a way
17:17but they do not know
17:19how to do it.
17:21Can we say
17:23that going to the
17:25meeting of Tehreek-e-Insaf
17:27does not matter?
17:29Would it have been better
17:31if they had gone?
17:33I am against
17:35the PTI.
17:37If they go to protest,
17:39they do not protest
17:41like on 26th November
17:43when your leaders
17:45disappeared
17:47and they reached
17:49Rajdhani.
17:51There is no such
17:53protest.
17:55It is like
17:57your son or daughter
17:59is seen from the same
18:01point of view
18:03and stands with her
18:05till the end.
18:07You should not
18:09be a weak hand.
18:11You should not
18:13make people
18:15laugh.
18:17You should
18:19think about
18:21the protest
18:23on 26th November
18:25and how
18:27they escaped.
18:31Let's take a break.
18:33We will ask Aqeel Malik
18:35who is in the opposition.
18:37We have heard
18:39about the JUI.
18:41There are many complaints
18:43but they are not
18:45aggressive.
18:47They can give tough time
18:49to the government
18:51but the government
18:53did not engage them.
18:55Welcome back, Aqeel.
18:57You heard
18:59Kamran Murtaza
19:01talking about
19:03the JUI.
19:05You could not
19:07take them with you.
19:09There are many complaints
19:11but they are not
19:13aggressive.
19:15Who are you
19:17taking with you?
19:19MQM, People's Party,
19:21the government
19:23is a part of
19:25convenience.
19:27You are not
19:29taking anyone with you.
19:31I agree with
19:33Maria.
19:35We should
19:37have engaged
19:39them more.
19:41The CBMs
19:43in the opposition
19:45did not try
19:47to engage them.
19:49If there was an invitation,
19:51the JUI came.
19:53If there was an invitation,
19:55the ANPI came.
19:57We should have
19:59made the CBMs
20:01a single document.
20:03Every party
20:05should have its own document.
20:07The importance
20:09of the document
20:11should not
20:13be taken
20:15in that way.
20:17This is also right.
20:19If we point
20:21to Akhtar Mengal
20:23and PTI,
20:25we should have
20:27engaged them.
20:29These are political decisions.
20:31I think
20:33the PM should
20:35give a useful
20:37and better advice.
20:39The CBMs
20:41should be
20:43engaged in this.
20:45The CBMs
20:47should know that
20:49for one reason or another,
20:51this was at the eleventh hour.
20:53Given the gravity
20:55of the situation,
20:57the Jafar Express incident,
20:59this meeting was called
21:01at the last minute.
21:03This meeting was called
21:05in a hurry but it was necessary.
21:07It was necessary for national security
21:09and for peace.
21:11It was necessary to
21:13get all the parliamentarians
21:15on board and
21:17to tell them that
21:19this is what has happened
21:21and this is what we are up against.
21:23It was necessary.
21:25I still think
21:27that it is not too late.
21:29The PM has given
21:31an idea to call
21:33the APC after Eid.
21:35He is mulling it around.
21:37It is a good idea.
21:39The APC should be called.
21:41I support it because
21:43all the decisions
21:45should be taken by the parliamentarians.
21:47We, the politicians,
21:49have to face the people.
21:51Your discussion
21:53with the APC
21:55is a good thing.
21:57But the opposition is
21:59accusing you of not
22:01creating a consensus.
22:03You just needed
22:05an endorsement
22:07or support.
22:09You have already taken decisions.
22:13In this situation,
22:15when the country is surrounded
22:17by terrorism,
22:19when there has been
22:21a double or triple
22:23terrorist attack,
22:25I think
22:27these decisions
22:29have already been taken.
22:31The government of the day
22:33is responsible.
22:35We, as parliamentarians
22:37and politicians collectively
22:39have a responsibility.
22:41We have not been told
22:43to leave one group
22:45and operate on the other.
22:47This is a generic issue.
22:49We are all against terrorism.
22:51Tell me what consensus
22:53should have been developed
22:55or what consensus
22:57can I develop
22:59as a citizen of Pakistan?
23:01What is the APC's role?
23:03What is the APC's role?
23:05If there is no need to develop
23:07a consensus?
23:09In the APC,
23:11there are some issues
23:13related to kinetic operation.
23:15No decision has been taken
23:17that an operation is going
23:19to be carried out.
23:21Intelligent operations
23:23have been going on
23:25for the past 1-1.5 years.
23:27Where there is credible intelligence,
23:29law enforcement agencies
23:31and officials
23:33act rapidly
23:35and deal with terrorism
23:37where there is credible intelligence.
23:39In terms of sharing
23:41of intelligence,
23:43as you mentioned
23:45in the beginning,
23:47the national action plan
23:49has not been
23:51properly implemented
23:53by the previous governments.
23:55Let's see
23:57if there is any capacity
23:59at the moment.
24:01Let's talk about the APC.
24:03Is it a good idea?
24:05Will Tariq-e-Insaaf participate?
24:07What do you think?
24:09What kind of participation
24:11will Tariq-e-Insaaf have?
24:41Tariq-e-Insaaf has
24:43filed a complaint
24:45against the PPP
24:47and MQM.
24:49These days,
24:51Tariq-e-Insaaf
24:53is leaving the government.
24:55This is the position
24:57of the government
24:59to the extent
25:01of consensus building.
25:03If this is the time
25:05to unite,
25:07the government
25:09is not allowing
25:11Tariq-e-Insaaf to participate.
25:13In the last few days,
25:15we have called for a
25:17peaceful meeting
25:19at Minar-e-Pakistan.
25:21The government
25:23has not allowed
25:25Tariq-e-Insaaf to participate.
25:27This is the time
25:29to unite.
25:31When you want
25:33to build consensus,
25:35you need to unite
25:37with Tariq-e-Insaaf.
25:39Tariq-e-Insaaf is
25:41opposing other parties.
25:43Kamran Murtaza
25:45is a colleague
25:47of mine.
25:49He is a colleague
25:51of mine in the Senate
25:53and in the profession.
25:55The other parties
25:57like PKMAP
25:59and BNP
26:01have already made
26:03some decisions.
26:05Tariq-e-Insaaf
26:07has to be legitimized
26:09and that is why
26:11Tariq-e-Insaaf did not participate.
26:13Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:15and that is why
26:17Tariq-e-Insaaf did not participate.
26:19Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:21and that is why
26:23Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:25and that is why
26:27Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:29and that is why
26:31Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:33Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:35Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:37Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:39Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:41Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:43Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:45Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:47Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:49Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:51Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:53Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:55Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:57Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
26:59Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
27:01Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
27:03Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
27:05Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
27:07Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
27:09Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
27:11Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
27:13Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
27:15Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
27:17Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
27:19Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
27:21Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
27:23Tariq-e-Insaaf has to be legitimized
27:25Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan were together
27:27Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan were together
27:29Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan were together
27:31Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan were together
27:33Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan were together
27:35Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan were together
27:37Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan were together
27:39Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan were together
27:41Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan were together
27:43Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan were together
27:45Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan were together
27:47Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan were together
27:49Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan were together
27:51Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan were together
27:53National Action Plan
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33:29I will come to the first NIAT
33:31because I was in the expert committee
33:33which held 21 meetings
33:35and one point was removed
33:37in the cabinet
33:39due to someone's apprehension
33:41and that was mainly
33:43due to a lot of brainstorming
33:45and in that discussion
33:47there were political parties
33:49in the expert group
33:51there were people from our institutions
33:53and top officials
33:55and all these things were discussed
33:57it was not that someone
33:59added it all of a sudden
34:01and presented it
34:03and at the Balochistan meeting
34:05it was discussed in detail
34:07and all the institutions
34:09discussed it openly
34:11and agreed that
34:13the process of reconciliation
34:15should start
34:17so this was the background
34:19the 21st point
34:21was that who will implement it
34:23the prime minister
34:25was given the responsibility
34:27that the prime minister
34:29will make a war room
34:31will make a mechanism
34:33from where it will be monitored
34:35and implemented
34:37and as soon as it came out
34:39it became unheard of
34:41Jodhary Nihar used to take the responsibility
34:43Nasir Janjua
34:45NSA used to take the responsibility
34:47and when there were questions
34:49about it again and again
34:51because it was a consensus document
34:53it was a document
34:55so even today we recall it
34:57so it was put around
34:59the neck of NECTA
35:01and the capacity of NECTA
35:03is still there
35:05but it was not capable of it
35:07because the whole
35:09bureaucratic system of policing
35:11was such
35:13that it could not be implemented
35:15so this is the background
35:17of it
35:19if you want to make a new action plan
35:21then make it only for Balochistan
35:23and
35:25because the other points
35:27already have
35:29consensus on them
35:31if they are going to make a mechanism
35:33then they can do it
35:35I think a national action plan
35:37should be made on Balochistan
35:39Muhammad Ali
35:41all the points I read
35:43it does not seem like I am telling something new
35:45the more we move forward
35:47the more we stay at the same place
35:49it seems like in 2014
35:51the national action plan
35:53to implement it
35:55was someone's seriousness
35:57was it a lack of political intent
35:59was it because
36:01the political governments kept coming and going
36:03there was no stability
36:05that is why it could not be implemented
36:07what were the reasons
36:09for it not being implemented
36:11thank you very much
36:13I think there are three basic reasons
36:15one was
36:17as an expert
36:19or a student of political science
36:21if I see
36:23you know that traditionally
36:25in our country
36:27it is thought
36:29that all matters of stability
36:31are to be seen by our military
36:33and
36:35civilian or political leadership
36:37their work is
36:39financial matters
36:41or economic matters
36:43and development
36:45that is why
36:47almost all governments
36:49and parties
36:51have been concerned
36:53and this is the basic reason
36:55for which
36:57without taking anyone's name
36:59the political leaders
37:01generally think that
37:03this is counter terrorism
37:05these are all military matters
37:07our job is to develop
37:09take the budget
37:11take the funds
37:13if a formal document
37:15comes in the form of
37:17a national action plan
37:19then I want to say
37:21that under the pressure of the army
37:23or
37:25appreciating their concerns
37:27or not destabilizing
37:29the civil military relations
37:31they do it under the assumption
37:33and
37:35basically a verbal
37:37and political commitment is there
37:39but practical implementation
37:41as Amir sahab was saying
37:43is not seen
37:45and the basic reason is
37:47that the real thing
37:49that I can say in one sentence
37:51is that it seems that
37:53apart from a few jamaats
37:55other jamaats
37:57do not want to spend
37:59their political capital
38:01on the final
38:03outcome of war on terror
38:05they give
38:07some statements
38:09they congratulate
38:11they congratulate the supporters
38:13they present the army
38:15and condemn terrorism
38:17so this is a verbal
38:19and political commitment
38:21practically as Amir sahab said
38:23that
38:25especially in KPK
38:27more than 580 billion
38:29funds have been given to them
38:31in different periods
38:33you know that
38:35they are most affected
38:37by terrorism
38:39and the people there
38:41are suffering the most
38:43but now the situation is
38:45that not a single forensic lab
38:47is operational
38:49through which we can identify
38:51terrorists
38:53or their counter-terrorism department
38:55is in no condition
38:57around 100,000
38:59civil law enforcement agencies
39:01are working in KPK
39:03but their training
39:05and moral
39:07is in front of everyone
39:09because the army
39:11is the
39:13last line of defense
39:15the first line of defense
39:17is the counter-terrorism strategy
39:19because you are fighting
39:21this war within your borders
39:23so it has to be a civil law
39:25enforcement agency
39:27every police station, special branch
39:29IB, FIA
39:31if all these civil organizations
39:33work together
39:35then there is no reason
39:37to reduce the space
39:39that terrorists want
39:41and then the few individuals
39:43who take up arms
39:45against the state
39:47any operation against them
39:49can definitely be fought
39:51and this is the reason
39:53that the army leadership
39:55is expressing this frustration
39:57which in one sentence
39:59the army chief said
40:01that the blood of the martyrs
40:03cannot be the blood of the people
40:05but Amir sahib
40:07if we do not talk about
40:09political instability
40:11in this country
40:13then this will be an exaggeration
40:15especially when you spend your capital
40:17through a thorough democratic process
40:19then you will know
40:21that during your government
40:23and the mandate
40:25to work for them
40:27is definite
40:29another angle that we are seeing
40:31is the lack of coordination
40:33if Khyber Pakhtunkhwa has
40:35a government of one political party
40:37and Vifaq has a government of another
40:39then they will not tag team
40:41it seems that they put responsibility
40:43on each other
40:45and move away
40:49you are right
40:51the political chaos
40:53that is going on in Pakistan
40:55there are many layers
40:57there can be many things
40:59but it is like this
41:01but it is basically
41:03related to our
41:05civil military
41:07balance
41:09the doctor is right
41:11that a lot of things
41:13have been put on the army
41:15but it has a history
41:17we will not go to the old history
41:19in the era of Abdo or Bhutto
41:21whenever the civilians got the chance
41:23when Mian sahib was the prime minister
41:25the balance of the civilians
41:27was more
41:29then we created
41:31anti-terrorism act
41:33we created a mechanism
41:35against Varanasi
41:37when I just told you
41:39that the 21st
41:41point was that the prime minister
41:43will do it then
41:45there was a aspect of civil military
41:47and our institutions
41:49the security
41:51the internal security
41:53those folks
41:55I am saying quote unquote
41:57they did not want to do it on the civilian leadership
41:59and whenever they
42:01tried to take the issue
42:03in their hands
42:05there was a lot of
42:07civil military tension
42:09regional policy
42:11internal policy
42:13we don't want to go into the background
42:15but now
42:17it is obvious that
42:19it is an issue of the capacity of the civilian institutions
42:21but
42:23who will look after it
42:25political leadership
42:27is a fire
42:29that
42:31burns hands
42:33that is why the KP
42:35government
42:37appears to
42:39appease the TTP
42:41and Taliban
42:43so it is a political compulsion
42:45I think the problem is
42:47when we are talking about
42:49national action plan
42:51on the social contract
42:53of Pakistan
42:55there should be another action plan
42:57which is not possible
42:59this is a matter of consensus
43:01Mohammad Ali
43:03after 2014
43:05this consensus document
43:07came out
43:09there are very few instances
43:11where all political parties
43:13have agreed
43:15on the 18th amendment
43:17do you need
43:19national action plan 2
43:21or is this enough
43:23as suggested by Amir Rana
43:27personally
43:29I have no
43:31objection
43:33you can call that document
43:35national action plan
43:371 plus or 2
43:39that is also
43:41for political optics
43:43that we have brought a fresh document
43:45as you said
43:47Mr. Mirabal
43:49earlier
43:51in Nawaz Sharif's time
43:53now in Shahbaz Sharif's time
43:55you know better than me
43:57that this is
43:59only political slogans
44:01the real thing is
44:03as Mr. Amir said
44:05and as you said
44:07in the beginning
44:09the practical steps
44:11that you have to register
44:13or send illegal people
44:15from the country
44:17or register them
44:19or to end the black economy
44:21or money laundering
44:23or to take up arms
44:25to run the country
44:27then on the other hand
44:29another political problem
44:31which is facing the army
44:33and the state and the government
44:35is a very hard line stance
44:37of KPK's political party
44:39in which
44:41they want to
44:43ban Bani's release
44:45from the operation
44:47against national security
44:49and it means
44:51that they want to
44:53bargain
44:55for the release of their leader
44:57basically from the operation
44:59against national security
45:01with its support
45:03so it means that
45:05the same province
45:07whose people are most affected
45:09you want to
45:11bargain for
45:13national security
45:15so this is a matter of regret
45:17because your voter
45:19your geography, your religion
45:21your position, your party
45:23whatever it may be
45:25as per Pakistan's constitution
45:27everything is fair
45:29Thank you very much
45:31Mr. Amir Rana was with us
45:33Mr. Syed Muhammad Ali was with us
45:35The time for the program is over