Don Calloway, Democratic strategist and host of the Caucus Room podcast, joins "Forbes Newsroom" to discuss the current state of the Democratic Party two months into President Trump's second term and following Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer's (D-NY) controversial decision to back a CR to fund the government.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lewis, a breaking news reporter here at Forbes. Joining me now
00:07is Don Callaway, Democratic strategist and host of the Caucus Room podcast. Don,
00:12thank you so much for joining me. Hey, thank you for having me, Brittany.
00:16Ever since November 5th, you've been seeing the headlines, Democrats in disarray. There's an
00:21identity crisis within the Democratic Party. And Democrats really seemingly struggled to
00:26find their footing since they lost the White House, the House, and the Senate in November.
00:31And there seems to be a disagreement with the messaging and how to go forward. And I feel that
00:35this really played out last week with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer's 180 on supporting
00:41the continuing resolution that averted a government shutdown. To start off the conversation,
00:46what do you think of his decision? Chuck Schumer was in an almost impossible
00:52position. Let's be clear about that. He felt as leader of the Democrats in the Senate,
00:57you have to remember that his primary job is to reclaim the majority two years from now.
01:01And his vote was based on the notion that he was genuinely concerned that Democrats would be
01:06blamed for shutting down the government at a time when Democrats' approval rating is already at an
01:10all-time low. I get that. But let's be clear, whether or not he voted for the continuing
01:15resolution, Republicans are always going to blame Democrats for shutting down the government
01:19if he did that, right? And so there's no real way of getting around that.
01:23I would also say that I understand his vote, because his vote saved $1 billion from being
01:28cut from Washington, D.C.'s public funding. I mean, that's schools, that's trash collection,
01:34basic civil services for the almost 1 million residents of Washington, D.C. who are taxed
01:40without representation in this country. And so he did save Washington, D.C. from
01:44a extraordinarily detrimental potential budget cut. That said, Democrats around the country,
01:50as well as those interested in democracy globally, were looking for the Democratic
01:55Party to put up some kind of fight to show that they have some relevance in what's happening
01:59right now in congressional processes. And I think Chuck Schumer didn't meet that moment.
02:03What I think is that this provides an incredible opportunity for new leadership to emerge under
02:09the mantle of the Democratic Party. There's an internal opportunity for a true liberal champion
02:14to step up, somebody like a Raphael Warnock or maybe even a Cory Booker. But I also think
02:18there's an external opportunity both for somebody to primary Chuck Schumer from the left, but also
02:24really just for the next generation of Democratic Party leadership to emerge. And I suspect that
02:29that leadership will emerge from someone who is outside of contemporary or even traditional
02:34American politics in general. The former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi reportedly said something
02:40along the lines of, well, I never never give away anything for free. And that is what it looks like
02:46Chuck Schumer did. Chuck Schumer defended his position just like you did by saying he had
02:51two choices and they were nearly impossible. But averting the government shutdown was the better
02:56option, in your opinion. You're saying he didn't meet the moment. What could he have done? Do you
03:01think Democrats with their approval rating really in the gutter right now should have just went
03:06through and shut down the government? You know, I am no fan of President Trump and all the things
03:12we're seeing out of his administration. But if you observe from the last 10 years of the Trump
03:16administration, particularly this two months of 2.0, he is a dealmaker. This was Chuck Schumer's
03:23opportunity to try to wheel and deal. Nancy Pelosi is right. And it's easy. Let's be clear. It's easy
03:28for Nancy Pelosi to say because she wasn't in the decision making seat at the time. But it does feel
03:33like Democrats, particularly Senate Democrats, who is the all powerful body, extracted pretty much
03:38nothing out of this. Let's be clear. You don't want the government to shut down because you don't want
03:42the Trump administration and Doge doing whatever they do without Congress and governmental bodies
03:48being in session to be able to watch and at least report. But it does feel like Chuck Schumer really
03:53extracted nothing for a vote that effectively looks like he rolled over. I'm old enough to
03:59remember when it was Republicans in disarray, when Kevin McCarthy was the House speaker,
04:04when Republicans in the House were publicly going against him. I had two House Democrats
04:10on my show earlier last week and earlier this week. Both didn't have, you know, the best support
04:17of Chuck Schumer at that time, saying criticizing his move there. House Minority Leader Hakeem
04:23Jeffries, when he was asked about it last week about Chuck Schumer's leadership, he kept saying
04:28next question. Earlier this week, he said that Chuck Schumer should remain as Senate Minority
04:33Leader. What's that new leadership, though, you're looking for? You mentioned some names,
04:37Raphael Warnock, John Ossoff, I believe. Who who are you looking for to meet this moment?
04:43Well, you know, the reality is that it doesn't matter the person. What matters is that it's
04:47someone, you know, Chuck, I'm a sports guy. And the best sports analogy here is that Chuck
04:52Schumer has pretty much lost the locker room when it comes to Democrats, not in the not only in the
04:56Senate, but throughout Congress, as well as, you know, nationally, those people who are politically
05:01interested and identify as Democrats. Chuck Schumer's lost the locker room. And so I don't
05:06know who that presents an opportunity for in the Senate Democratic caucus. Remember, it's got to be
05:11someone who is a national figure, who is a prolific fundraiser, and someone who the caucus has faith
05:16in can reclaim the majority. I also think that, again, there's an interesting opportunity for
05:21someone to come forth with a populist base, but Democratic leaning message that might not even be
05:27from politics altogether. So you got to look at people who are external, such as, you know,
05:33the extraordinary influence of the podcasters who are out there on the Republican side, who are,
05:38you know, shaping policy in a very real way. You've got to look at public figures and people
05:43who the Democratic Party has kind of, to be honest, turned their nose up at in the past.
05:48I think Hakeem Jeffries still has the locker room on the House side,
05:51but it looks like, and we understand the difficult nature of this vote, but it very
05:56much looks like Chuck Schumer doesn't really understand the vibe. He doesn't know what time
06:01it is around his party nationally. And when you don't have a president, the Senate majority leader
06:07is de facto the leader of his party. It doesn't feel like he understands where Democrats' minds
06:12are enough to continue on in this important role. And to your point, House Minority Leader
06:17Hakeem Jeffries had House Democrats unified, all but one voted against that CR. Chuck Schumer had
06:24just a handful of Democrat votes for the CR. So I think that's a really interesting point.
06:29It seems like Democrats in the country have lost the locker room. The approval rating is
06:34really at an all-time low. NBC says only 27 percent of people have a positive view of the
06:40party. Blue Rose Research, which conducted over 25 million voter interviews last year,
06:45found these stats. Gen Z is more conservative than millennials. Those who get their news from
06:50more non-traditional ways are more right-leaning. Higher turnout would have helped the GOP and hurt
06:55Democrats. There's been a massive swing in immigrant voters to Trump. Almost every Democrat
07:01moved, or almost every demographic moved more right in the last election, and Democrats are losing
07:06non-white voters. So you hear this. That's all bad news for Democrats. Where do they go from here?
07:15It's a million-dollar question, really.
07:19It is. It's very difficult to say, but I will tell you that the future of the leadership
07:24of the party is going to have to look different. It's going to have to entrust and empower people
07:28who have traditionally not been included in those leadership and power discussions. They will be
07:34younger. They will be more people of color. But at the same time, it's a tight rope to walk to
07:38include folks demographically who have not been included and elevated to leadership,
07:43while also making it clear that this is not a party strictly of identity politics,
07:47because there's a whole lot of non-folks of color in middle America who want to talk about the
07:52kitchen issues, but don't understand that the Republican Party is not best for them on issues
07:57such as Medicare and Medicaid and, frankly, the price of eggs. The Trump economy has not been good
08:03for middle class and lower middle class and working class Americans of any color on these items,
08:09but they have owned the narrative and they've owned the messaging.
08:13The reality is that Democrats have no single individual as magnetic as President Trump is,
08:19whether or not I agree with his politics or his policies. We have no single individual,
08:24frankly, who is that individually powerful. It's got to come from a coalition of voices.
08:29I don't know that Democrats should be looking to a one person as much as you should be looking to a
08:33one unifying message and pointing out all of the inconsistencies in Trump messaging,
08:39which is like, yeah, I get it. The bravado is cool and the Tesla's out front of the White
08:43House is flashy, but it does not translate to moving the ball forward for your working class
08:48family. When you're thinking of that unified message, where exactly does that message go?
08:53Because there's been some internal debate, according to my conversations,
08:57of do we go more progressive? Do we go more left? Do we go more centrist?
09:01You're seeing this with Governor Gavin Newsom, who was historically very liberal on his podcast.
09:07He's talking to right wing superstars like Steve Bannon, like Charlie Kirk.
09:11He's ceding ground to them when they're really not moving an inch on their positions.
09:16That doesn't have high approval ratings. But what is that unified message?
09:22You know, I think that Democrats have to have the wherewithal to kind of come out of our ivory
09:27towers and realize that there are multiple different messages for multiple different
09:31constituencies. When you have a country of 300 million people, diverse geographies, diverse ages,
09:37diverse nationalities and ethnicities, there is not one message that applies all the way.
09:42But there has to be a through line of equality, opportunity and fairness. There has to be a
09:47through line of if you believe in this basic fair set of policies, that everyone gets a shot,
09:52that this is not an economy for the wealthy, then you and your family will have an opportunity to
09:57advance the ball in this generation and the next for your family. And you communicate that to
10:02different people in different ways. There does not need to be one democratic Bible.
10:07There does need to be one democratic through line of talk. And I'll just tell you, I don't
10:11think that talking to Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon, frankly, is the way. I'm quite disappointed
10:16in Gavin Newsom, because we know 10 years into this Trump world experiment and this hard right
10:21experiment, particularly in the media, that the Charlie Kirk's and the Steve Bannon's of the world
10:27don't mean the best in terms of equal opportunity for all American citizens. So I'm a little
10:31disappointed in Gavin on that. But Democrats have got to get past this highfalutin notion of,
10:36you know, one voice, one message at all times, speaking to everybody, because we're too diverse
10:42of a nation to require that anymore in our politics. And to that point, Democrats seemingly
10:47have a deep bench with governors Gavin or Gretchen Whitmer, Wes Moore, Representative
10:53Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Jasmine Crockett, governors Andy Beshear and Gavin Newsom.
10:58As we said, these are very different Democrats with very different perspectives. So how do
11:05Democrats, according to the polls, seemingly have not been the big tent party? Every demographic
11:11almost is swinging to Republicans. How do Democrats become that big tent party once again?
11:17You've got to stop focusing on the individual talent and start thinking about broad, populist
11:23themed messages. Yes, with a Democratic bent of support for the middle class, support for labor
11:28unions, support for LGBTQ and equal opportunity. But the message now is more populist. People are
11:34kind of tired of being shamed into fitting into these boxes of propriety and such. And again,
11:39there are multiple messages that work for multiple different demographics that can ultimately support
11:45a person going to the voting booth and hitting the deep. I am far less concerned with the
11:51individuals of Democratic politics and the individual personalities. I think that's a
11:55rabbit hole that we've been down since the era of Barack Obama that hasn't really served us well.
12:00I am far more concerned with somebody who is from outside of the game, but willing to talk
12:05reasonable, populist, left leaning stuff, and who can make that message across the board.
12:10And frankly, when I say somebody, that's probably a coalition of folks who look like a whole
12:15bunch of different people who are actively participating in the Democratic processes.
12:20It seems like Democrats are having a difficult time in finding a way to cohesively
12:25fight Donald Trump's agenda here because he's moving 80 miles a minute here. And Senate Minority
12:32Leader Chuck Schumer earlier said, you know, we're not going to lay on the tracks for every
12:36issue. We're going to pick our few key issues and go all the way with that. Even at the state or
12:42the joint address to Congress, protests seemed disjointed. Some people were wearing different
12:46colors. Some people were standing up and yelling. And there was no cohesive strategy behind that.
12:53Social media from Democrats has been mocked. I mean, what is the way to
12:57fight Donald Trump's agenda if you're a Democrat?
13:01Well, you have to do what you can. And I do think that ultimately there have to be people who are
13:06willing to disrupt like Al Green. And there also have to be people who are willing to burn it down.
13:12We have seen Republicans from the Freedom Caucus through the Mama Bears and in school boards on
13:17the local level being willing to stop proceedings. And frankly, all the way up through January 6th,
13:24I'm not arguing for Democrats turning to violence like we saw that day, but we have seen Democrats
13:30think that certain behaviors, certain tactics are beneath them. And ultimately what that has
13:34amounted to is a party who looks weak because it looks like they're not willing to pull out all the
13:39stops in order to stop proceedings when they see these extraordinarily unfair and punishing the
13:45middle class policies that are just imminently passing. When you don't have the House, the Senate
13:50or the presidency, there are very few things that you can do, but you can disrupt. That's why I was
13:55extraordinarily disappointed to see 9, 10 members of the Democratic House Caucus vote to censure
14:00Representative Al Green. And there are certain positions, there are certain opportunities where
14:05if you are a caucus or chamber leader, you have the opportunity to force your caucus into taking
14:10a caucus position that says we are all going to support Al Green or there will be ramifications
14:15for you on committees, on seniority and things of that nature. I was disappointed to see Hakeem
14:20Jeffries not do that, but there are inside baseball, kind of how you play the game tactics
14:25that can support any types of reward or punishment for members who are not willing
14:30to get on board. But you have to develop positions and exploit the opportunities where the caucus has
14:35to be united and you have to hold them to that. We've seen the pendulum swing time and time again
14:41of parties popularity. Republicans faced a popularity crisis years ago. Now Democrats
14:49are facing those historic low numbers. I mean, I guess my last question to you is how do Democrats
14:54make their party cool again? How do they make it popular again? How do they make people excited
15:00to be a Democrat? Well, it's going to be very difficult to do because from what we've seen over
15:06the last five years, but particularly in the past election cycle, big tech who controls so much of
15:12the messaging that people see now is squarely in the bag for the Trump administration and the
15:17Republican Party. So you've got to figure out a way to get back to grassroots. How do you talk
15:21to neighbors outside of Instagram or TikTok when those messages are being manipulated? How do you,
15:27how are you able to engage with folks? And I think that it goes back to being in churches,
15:31being in the community meetings. We're starting to see an uptick in the democratic town halls,
15:36like we saw with Republicans in 2010. But ultimately I am looking for a group of folks
15:41from outside of organized politics to rise in a populist fashion that's democratic leaning
15:47and talk about how we're better united regardless of the kind of identity politics that Democrats
15:52have pressed on their voters for the last 20 years. And frankly, the American people got a
15:56little tired of, but I got to say, Brittany, you're killing it on your show. Congratulations.
16:00And I'm so proud of you. You've done an extraordinary job. I've watched several
16:04of your broadcasts up to now, and I'm looking forward to seeing you continue to bloom and thrive
16:08at Forbes. Thank you so, so much. This was such a great conversation and I hope we can continue
16:13them. Don Callaway, thank you so much. You got it. Thanks for having me.