Donald Trump's rumbling conflict with the judiciary burst into open confrontation on Tuesday as US Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts issued a rare public rebuke of the US president over his call for the impeachment of a federal judge. FRANCE 24's Sharon Gaffney speaks to Reed Brody, a human rights lawyer and former New York state prosecutor.
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NewsTranscript
00:00This is Apropos.
00:04The dispute has prompted concern that Donald Trump is further pushing the boundaries of
00:08executive power at the expense of the federal judiciary.
00:12The White House is accusing judges of usurping the will of the president, who's called for
00:17the impeachment of a judge who ordered the suspension of high-profile deportation flights.
00:23The magistrate is now warning the Trump administration that it could face consequences if he finds
00:28it violated his order temporarily blocking the deportation.
00:32With the details, here's Kairos Ghandi.
00:37It's the latest escalation in a tussle between two branches of U.S. government, the executive
00:43and the judiciary.
00:44After Donald Trump called for the impeachment of a district judge on Tuesday, Supreme Court
00:49Chief Justice John Roberts issued a highly unusual public rebuke.
00:55For more than two centuries, it has been established that impeachment is not an appropriate
00:59response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision.
01:03The normal appellate review process exists for that purpose.
01:08Federal judges are nominated by the president for life and can only be removed by being
01:12impeached by the House of Representatives for high crimes or misdemeanors and convicted
01:17by the Senate, something extremely rare.
01:21Trump's disagreement with Judge James Boasberg centers around the administration's move to
01:26deport alleged Venezuelan gang members.
01:29Over the weekend, Boasberg ordered the suspension of the deportation flights, but the planes
01:34went on to land in El Salvador anyway.
01:37As justification for the move, the White House had invoked wartime legislation from the 18th
01:42century known as the Alien Enemies Act.
01:45The law has only been used three times, all during congressionally declared wars, and
01:50allows the deportation of foreigners without following the usual legal processes.
01:56The case has emerged as a flashpoint in a larger debate over presidential power and
02:00the role of the courts in reviewing executive actions.
02:04Some observers fear Trump will openly defy the judiciary, triggering a constitutional
02:09crisis.
02:10For more on what's at stake, we're joined now by Reid Brodie, human rights lawyer and
02:16prosecutor.
02:17Reid, thanks so much for being with us on the program this evening.
02:21How far is the United States from entering a constitutional crisis at this point?
02:27Some observers say we're already at that point.
02:30Would you agree?
02:31And do you think that it's perhaps what the Trump administration is actually seeking?
02:36No, I do think that democracy is under threat right now in the United States from a president
02:42who wants to be a dictator.
02:45I mean, we have seen a series, each day brings a new unconstitutional action by the president,
02:56dismantling agencies that were created by Congress, refusing to spend money.
03:05Congress has the power of the purse to decide which monies are spent, and he's been refusing
03:11to spend money allocated by Congress.
03:16The theoretical ending of birthright citizenship every day as well brings a new judicial order
03:26saying that Donald Trump has exceeded his constitutional powers.
03:34Just yesterday, two decisions, one by a federal judge saying that the dismantling of USAID
03:42was probably unconstitutional and ordering a halt.
03:47Another case in which a district judge said that Trump's order to ban transgender soldiers
03:57from the armed forces could not be enforced.
04:01And now we're seeing, as you well described, the president saying, I don't have to abide
04:10by court orders, calling for the impeachment of a federal judge.
04:17The vice president, J.D. Vance, has tweeted that judges have no right to constrain the
04:26president's legitimate authority.
04:28The borders are, in response to this case of the deportation, we don't care what judges
04:36are going to do.
04:37We're going to go ahead and do it anyway.
04:38So I believe that there is a real constitutional crisis underway.
04:43Are we approaching a scenario, do you believe, where the administration might actually say
04:47that it's no longer going to be complying with court orders?
04:51I'm afraid, well, we've seen de facto that several courts, they've been at least seriously
04:57dragging their feet on a number of occasions.
05:01And they've announced that when push comes to shove, they may not.
05:06And I mean, we will see a lot of these cases are going to go up to the U.S. Supreme Court.
05:14And the problem is that the courts have no way of enforcing their decisions.
05:20In the United States, the executive authority has traditionally gone along, I mean, not
05:28traditionally, always gone along with court decisions.
05:32Richard Nixon, everybody, when the court speaks, if you don't agree with the lower court ruling,
05:39you don't defy it, you appeal it.
05:42If it goes up to the Supreme Court, you abide by it.
05:47And I'm very afraid that Donald Trump and this administration will just say, you know,
05:55we don't care.
05:56And then, you know, that's the last guardrail.
06:00And as you say, the border czar has already said that he doesn't care about what judges
06:03think.
06:04The particular judge in the center of this deportation row, he warned the Trump administration
06:09today that there would be potential consequences if he finds that it has violated his order
06:16about those deportation flights.
06:18What kind of consequences are we talking about here?
06:21Well, he can hold the authorities in contempt of court.
06:26He can issue fines.
06:29But you know, ultimately, he, the judge, does not have a police force.
06:35The American system works because people have respected the separation of powers.
06:45The founding fathers who took over from a king felt that if a president tried to act
06:53like a dictator, that a Congress, jealous of its authority, would step in to impeach
07:00him.
07:01But the founding fathers did not foresee political parties, and they did not foresee the total
07:08control over a party by the president and of that party over Congress.
07:16And so ultimately, if the courts are not respected, I mean, we're seeing more and more people
07:25go into the streets.
07:28You know, the decision by immigration authorities to arrest a protester for an anti-Gaza protest
07:40and to put him in jail has brought a lot of people into the streets.
07:45People who have been fired unconstitutionally from the federal government by Elon Musk have
07:51been going out into the streets.
07:54That may ultimately be the only thing that's going to stop the government.
07:58There was a similar scenario as well in Boston.
08:02We saw a few days ago a judge issuing a restraining order to block the deportation of a medical
08:07professor.
08:08She had a valid visa, despite that she was still deported.
08:11So how are people feeling who are immigrants or perhaps foreign-born Americans living in
08:16the United States right now?
08:18It's obviously very worrying for people traveling in and out of the country.
08:22And for people within the country.
08:24I mean, I know people who have been picked up.
08:30People are, I mean, I have a friend was telling me that in his immigrant neighborhood, people
08:34don't go out on the street.
08:36They're just afraid.
08:38I know a woman who was stopped by the police who's actually an American citizen.
08:44But you know, she's of Latin heritage.
08:48And the police said to her, where did you buy, and she carries her, people carry their
08:52passports now.
08:54People are, and the police said, you know, where did you buy your passport?
08:59And they held her on the side of the road for hours.
09:02And while she was on the side of the road, the police stopped and arrested and handcuffed
09:06and took away other people.
09:10This is a very scary moment to be an immigrant, even to be a legal, a legal alien.
09:21The head of the Columbia Journalism School told his students, don't put anything on social
09:28media about Gaza.
09:30We can't protect you.
09:31This is the Columbia Journalism School.
09:34The attacks on universities, Columbia University had $400 million taken away because of its
09:43supposed tolerance of anti-Gaza war activities.
09:52There's an assault.
09:54People are, for the first time, I'm hearing interviews on the radio with people who are
10:00afraid to give their names for fear of reprisals.
10:04This is something that happens in Russia, in Venezuela, not in the United States.
10:09There's a lot of fear in a lot of communities in the United States today.
10:14The Trump administration as well, on some level, it appears to be trying to shape public
10:18perception of what's happening here when it comes to deportations and when it comes to
10:22how it's defying the courts, kind of framing that as a win for Republican voters, as a
10:28win for American people overall.
10:30Well, of course, the issue, the issue in this deportation, of course, nobody likes, you
10:37know, criminal gangs.
10:39That's a very popular move.
10:40Of course, we don't know that any of these people were criminals.
10:43That's the whole point of having a legal process.
10:46We know from what's coming out from lawyers that many of these people had no criminal
10:52records at all.
10:56The particular issue, of course, is popular.
11:01The fact is that the process is not being followed.
11:08Certainly, Trump feels he has a mandate.
11:12He got 49.8% of the vote.
11:15That doesn't really qualify you to totally overturn the entire government system, to
11:21shut down agencies, to fire people, to put Elon Musk's computer into the government computer
11:26and suck out all the money and just one agency after another being fired.
11:32You don't get to do that in a democracy because you got 49% of the vote.
11:38Reid we'll have to leave it there for now.
11:40Thanks for being with us on the program this evening.
11:42That's Reid Brodie, human rights lawyer and prosecutor.
11:45Thanks so much.
11:46Well, that is it from us for now.
11:48Do stay with us, though.
11:49We'll be right back with more World News.