'Sounded More Like A Politician Than A Science Guy': Cantwell Presses Top Trump Science & Tech Nom

2 days ago

During a Senate Commerce Commitee confirmation hearing prior to the Congressional recess, Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-WA) questioned President President Trump's nominee for a Federal Trade Commissioner role, Mark Meador, and Director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy nominee Michael Krastios.

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Transcript

00:00Thank you again to both of the nominees and your willingness to serve and your families.

00:06Your kids have been camped out there in the ante room having a good time,

00:09but they said that they can't wait to hear you answer more questions.

00:15Mr. Metter, on 13B, you know, we've had the FTC commissioners before us.

00:22I almost think you almost could get to a resolution before we could get to a resolution,

00:27but you agree the importance of having 13B for consumers?

00:33Yes, Senator, I think it's incredibly important that the Federal Trade Commission have the ability

00:37to return money to consumers who have been harmed.

00:39Right, so do you have any thoughts about how to

00:43come to an agreement on restoration of that authority?

00:46I would defer to this committee and Congress as a whole as to how best to navigate that,

00:51but if confirmed, I'm ready and willing to consult and assist with your office or any others to

00:56figure out how we can make that happen as quickly as possible.

01:00But you see that refunds are part of that?

01:04Yes, I believe when we have consumers who have been harmed by unfair or deceptive practices,

01:09one of the best things the FTC can do is get the money back to the consumers.

01:14So, but refunds writ large are a good way of preventing anti-competitive behavior?

01:20They can certainly be a tool. I think, you know, everything is obviously fact-specific.

01:24It depends on the case, but if confirmed, I look forward to working with the staff to examine

01:29what's been effective in the past and what we would want to do in the future.

01:32Okay, thank you. And then I know you got a question from one of my colleagues on PBMs,

01:36but Senator Grassley and I have reintroduced our PBM bill that is about outlawing spread pricing

01:43and clawback actions by PBMs. Do you have thoughts about that?

01:49I can say I enjoyed working with Senator Grassley's staff on the Judiciary Committee on many

01:53of these same issues, and if confirmed, I would really appreciate consulting with your office

01:57and others to talk about what the best legislative solution could be in this industry.

02:01But do you think that that's, you know, I like this anti-manipulation authority.

02:07I've given anti-manipulation authority to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.

02:11I gave it to the Commodities Future Trading Commission.

02:16They both have established a very aggressive

02:21oversight of very anti-competitive and manipulative practices. In fact,

02:27both agencies have gotten billions of dollars in fines against companies.

02:32The FTC hasn't done so much here, but Senator Grassley felt very specific about saying these

02:39types of practices are illegal. You don't have any problem saying that.

02:44I would want to see the final report for the 6B study that's currently pending before the

02:48commission. I think that's the first step we have to take. I've been looking at PBMs since I was in

02:52law school writing about them. I'm familiar with a lot of the concerns in the industry. I also know

02:57things have changed a lot since then, so I think it's important we understand what's happening in

03:01the marketplace today, and then we'll know what's happening.

03:03Well, there could be good actors who basically do get you a discount, but if somebody goes to

03:09a large employer and says, I'll get you a 35% discount, and then they pocket 30% of it at the

03:14PBM and only give the company and the workers 5%, that doesn't seem like a fair way to do business.

03:20Okay, I have to ask your seatmate there, Mr. Kratios, about technology. I'm sure people

03:27talked about testbeds while I was gone. You believe that that's a vital role that we play

03:32at the federal level when aviation or quantum or somebody can't do the scale at which

03:42an industry needs to get an answer? Yes, testbeds have served a very important

03:46purpose for a wide variety of technologies. NIST, for example, has a lot of experience

03:50in building testbeds as well. I love that Senator Lee was here as well as

03:57Senator Haggerty because they both, well, one comes from a very benefited DOE state and the

04:03other one is chairing now the Energy Committee, and these are initiatives oftentimes on the

04:08testbed side that are at DOE or at NSF. What is your thoughts about the President's

04:16NSF comments, and how do you think these two agencies fill that role of doing that testbed work?

04:23I think both NSF and DOE have proven with the CHIPS app implementation and with work that was

04:29done even before that for both AI and quantum centers, there's great opportunity to leverage

04:34those two agencies with their rich history of funding and creating and organizing user facilities

04:40to be places where a lot of these very important testbeds can reside for the communities.

04:44So you want to speak loudly about how robust that is. Is that correct? I want to make sure I get

04:51the characterization. You say this and then I'll find out. Oh yeah, go ahead. Take a meat cleaver

04:56to NSF. I think it's critically important that through an interagency process that OSTP is able

05:03to relay the importance of the scientific and technological community to the larger discussion

05:08and ultimately to the decision of the President, and I commit to bring to bear the science and

05:13technology advice to those conversations. Okay, that sounded more like a politician

05:17than a science guy, but okay. What about spectrum? Do you think that we could use a little

05:24testbedding on the spectrum technology to help us really move ahead of our competitors here

05:29and really get the solution for the future? I do. I think it's important to do kind of advanced

05:34spectrum testing. When I served as Acting Undersecretary of Defense for Research Engineering,

05:38we did some work around 5G testbeds at some of our military bases, and why that was sort of an

05:44interesting opportunity was that some of the regulations around approvals for these types of

05:48tests were much easier when they were done on military facilities. So I think across all emerging

05:52technologies, I think we have to be innovative and thoughtful on how to be able to make sure that the

05:56U.S. is continually leading on these technologies. Thank you. I'll have more questions for the record

06:02on that. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Senator Kentwell, and welcome. We are delighted

06:11that you all are here, and congratulations on your nominations.

'Sounded More Like A Politician Than A Science Guy': Cantwell Presses Top Trump Science & Tech Nom

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