Kiley Slams Witness: 'You Support School Choice For Wealthy Families' But Not Low-Income Families

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During Tuesday’s House Education and the Workforce Committee hearing, Rep. Kevin Kiley (R-CA) questioned experts about the opportunities school choice and private school vouchers present to low-income families.  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript   Stay Connected Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com

Transcript

00:00Thank you very much. I'll now recognize myself for five minutes. So just to understand position

00:05Ms. Levin, do you think that private schools should be abolished?

00:10No I do not.

00:11Okay, because you referred to my colleague's line of questioning as an ad hominem attack,

00:14but I think that totally misses the point. You think that your parents are well within

00:17their rights to send you to a private school that costs tens of thousands of dollars in

00:22tuition.

00:23At their own expense, yes.

00:24And you support the right of Kamala Harris, Gavin Newsom, Joe Biden to send their child

00:31to private school.

00:32I'm an attorney and the law supports their right and I support it as well.

00:37Okay, so you support the right of families to choose private schools if they can afford

00:41it. Is that right?

00:43That's correct. I do believe that public education though is the cornerstone of our democracy

00:47and I as an individual firmly support it.

00:50Okay, but do you see how that might rub some people the wrong way when you support school

00:54choice for wealthy families but oppose efforts to extend that same opportunity to lower income

01:00families?

01:03Because I believe that our public schools should be as well funded and as wonderful

01:08as our private schools, I think that that is something that the American people widely

01:14agree on. But policymakers need to find the political will to finally fully fund our public

01:20schools and the evidence-backed programs that help all students in places that welcome

01:24all students.

01:25So you talk about rural schools. Let's say that you are in one of these rural communities

01:28that only has one public school and unfortunately it's not very good. What would you tell the

01:32parents in that community?

01:34I would advocate alongside them as we do for better public funding for their public schools.

01:40Okay, and maybe that'll solve the problem, maybe it won't. Meanwhile, their child isn't

01:43being taught to read. You just tell them tough luck?

01:45No, I as an attorney would advocate for their rights under the law, which I would note largely

01:50do not apply to private school students.

01:52Okay, and you think that that's going to somehow instantly transform this school so that they're

01:57taught to read?

01:58I think that there's no chance of people's rights being enforced when they don't have

02:02them.

02:03Let's think about Arizona, Ms. Clark, if you're a parent in that same situation. So this is

02:07their sort of example that's come up again and again. What about in a rural community?

02:10If you are in this situation where there's really only one public school and you have

02:12access to an ESA, what are your options then?

02:15Well, we have thousands of families in Arizona and in rural communities who are utilizing

02:19our state's ESA program and they're utilizing it because it works. They're not trapped by

02:24maybe one public school that isn't serving them well, maybe isn't teaching their child

02:27to read. They can launch a micro school, they can create a co-op, they could hire a teacher

02:32and pool their ESA funds with other families, which many of them have done. They can do

02:37online schools. There's thousands of incredible online schools. They would have access to

02:42all of those things with an ESA.

02:44What do you think, Ms. Levin, might that get you better results in the near term than

02:47writing a letter to your state legislator?

02:50The research says that it would not. The overwhelming research shows that online schools do not

02:55perform as well as brick and mortar schools, particularly for our most vulnerable.

02:58Well, I don't know about that. I mean, Dr. McShane gave us a lot of research that says

03:01quite the contrary. But I mean, you're from California and you've told us again that the

03:05solution is just full funding. California is pretty well funded. How's California doing

03:10with education?

03:11The solution, to be clear, is not just full funding. Full funding is a necessary, though

03:15not a sufficient condition for an adequate education.

03:18Okay. What are the other things?

03:20We need policy. We need to fund policies that are evidence-backed and that work.

03:24Like what?

03:26Like teacher preparation, like preschool, like sufficient services for students with

03:30disabilities. And I'd be happy to provide the committee with much more research-backed

03:33evidence.

03:34Okay. So in California, we're not doing well. You didn't answer the question, but that's

03:37the truth. So I guess even though we have all that funding, we just don't have the right

03:41policies in those other areas? Is that what it is?

03:44Well, California has improved its public school funding. That doesn't necessarily mean it

03:48has sufficient funding to serve the needs well of every student.

03:52Are you aware that California had the longest school shutdown in the country during COVID?

03:56I will take your word for it.

03:57Do you think that was a good thing or was that a mistake?

04:00I believe that during a catastrophic early years of a pandemic, that schools sometimes

04:05needed to stay closed to protect both students, especially students with disabilities.

04:09So you support California's decision to have its schools closed longer than any state in

04:14the country?

04:15I support the decision of each state and locality in making the choice that was right for them.

04:20Okay. Interesting. But you don't support that when it comes to issues like school choice?

04:25When it comes to issues like school choice, I support the policies that are going to benefit

04:30students, not harm them. And the evidence is overwhelming.

04:33The evidence is overwhelming that school closures harm students. That's not even really up for

04:36debate at this point. You are a supporter of charter schools though, is that right?

04:41Yes, though they have to be like all public policy implemented well, designed well, and

04:46with safeguards to protect students' rights.

04:48Okay. So when President Biden tried to cut federal charter school grants, did you speak

04:51out against that?

04:53Well, President Biden was a little more targeted than I think you're characterizing. For example,

04:59I do not support an education law center does not support for-profit charter schools. They

05:03should not be funded with federal money.

05:05And just for the record, do federal civil rights laws apply to private schools, yes

05:08or no?

05:10Largely not.

05:11Federal civil rights laws, you're saying do not apply to private schools?

05:15Largely not. Some provisions do, but many do not of IDEA, Title VI, the EEOA, Title

05:20IX. Some of them only apply, many of them only apply to schools that receive federal

05:24funding, which is an increasingly low number of private schools, especially high schools.

05:29That's largely untrue. There's a federal, for any employer, there are federal civil

05:32rights protections that don't depend on whether you're a public or private employer. But in

05:35any case.

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