At last night's House Rules Committee hearing, Rep. Joe Neguse (D-CO) questioned Rep. Tom Cole (R-OK) about how he was able to reach DOGE staffers during debate about the CR.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Thank you very much. Mr. DeGoose, you're recognized.
00:04Thank you, Madam Chair.
00:06Thank you, Ranking Member, Chairman Cole, for being here, for your testimony.
00:10Appreciate it.
00:12I will just say, neither here nor there, but I think it's a bit rich
00:16for folks to lecture us about votes on the CR
00:22when, I don't know, 30, 40 members of your caucus voted against the CR
00:27in December, including a near majority of the Republicans in the Rules Committee.
00:32I understand. People have different intellectual rationales and reasons
00:38for their votes on these bills, but it's a little rich to be
00:43endured a lecture like we just endured from one of our new colleagues
00:48who perhaps wasn't aware, I don't know if he was here in December,
00:51but wasn't aware that so many of his own colleagues on his side of the aisle
00:55voted against the CR, but I digress.
00:58I want to ask you, Mr. Chairman, a couple of questions,
01:03and I missed the debate earlier, so I just want to kind of level set
01:07that I'm understanding this CR correctly.
01:10The CR increases defense spending by $6 billion, that's right?
01:15No. It increases by about $2.5 billion.
01:19$2.5 billion? Correct.
01:21And it cuts funding for non-defense programs and services by $13 million.
01:25Not for programs, for actually by, you know, the cuts are largely,
01:30and I do not enjoy saying this because I believe in them,
01:35but they're congressional projects, they're not programmatic funding.
01:38I'm not, I'm just trying to do a level set.
01:41Yeah.
01:42I'm trying to understand, and I think folks are paying attention.
01:44I wanted you to realize where the cuts were coming from.
01:46So whatever you want to call it, non-defense programs,
01:49non-defense spending is cut by roughly $13 billion.
01:54Correct.
01:55The CR does not include the $22.8 billion in FY26 advanced funding
02:02for the Toxic Exposure Fund.
02:04That's correct. We think that should be dealt with in the 26th bill.
02:07Got it. But it's not included in this bill?
02:09That's correct.
02:10Okay.
02:11You mentioned in your colloquy with my colleague on the Republican side
02:17of what's changed since December.
02:19I think he posed that question to you.
02:21What makes the CR different than the last?
02:23And we've gone through a couple of ways in which it is materially different.
02:27But, of course, what also has changed, as you well know,
02:30are the serious concerns that members on my side of the aisle,
02:33and I believe, if I'm not mistaken, some members on your side of the aisle,
02:37regarding the dismantling of federal agencies that the Trump administration
02:41has been engaged in and the purge of the federal workforce.
02:44And I take it you are concerned about some of that?
02:48Is that fair to say?
02:49No, I'm not concerned.
02:51Not in this bill.
02:52When I have concerns, I express my concerns.
02:54Are you concerned about DOJ's activities more broadly?
02:58I'm sorry?
02:59Are you concerned about DOJ's activities more broadly?
03:04No, I'm really not.
03:06You're not concerned?
03:08If I can answer the question.
03:09Sure.
03:10No.
03:11I mean, because I think most of these things will be reviewed by Cabinet agencies
03:15and will be looked at.
03:17And I think a lot of this needed to be, honestly, a light shone on.
03:21I think Mr. Norman actually listed a number of things.
03:25Here's why I ask.
03:26Here's why I ask, just simply.
03:28Okay.
03:29You were singing a very different tune a few days ago
03:31when DOJ announced that they apparently were shutting down
03:35multiple federal installations in your district.
03:37Correct.
03:38Shutting down the Office of Social Security.
03:40Shutting down the National Weather Service.
03:42Correct.
03:43Shutting down the Indian Tribal Health Service.
03:46Not in my district, but immediately outside.
03:48In the state of Oklahoma.
03:49Correct.
03:50And you were apparently very concerned about DOJ's activities in that regard,
03:54so concerned that you, according to what you tweeted out earlier this week,
03:59that you engaged the administration with your concerns.
04:01I did.
04:02That sounds very different than what you said a moment ago,
04:04that you have no concerns, that this is just a spotlight,
04:07and that DOJ is doing important work.
04:09But, of course, that doesn't apply when they're trying to shut down
04:12the Social Security office in your district.
04:14Right?
04:15Correct.
04:16If I think they're right, look, when I was chairman of Labor H,
04:19we shut down a Job Corps center in my district.
04:23Sure.
04:24I'm the chairman.
04:25So which Social Security offices?
04:26I could pretty easily stop that.
04:27Which Social Security offices should they shut down?
04:28Can I finish my answer?
04:29Sure.
04:30In that case, I thought it was the right thing to do.
04:32Got it.
04:33I didn't like it.
04:34I'm a Job Corps supporter.
04:35I appreciate that.
04:36That had underperformed for a lot of years.
04:39Now, at the end of the day, again, I think members are free to advocate
04:43for what they believe, free to intervene,
04:45free to point out when somebody's wrong.
04:47In those cases, I thought they were wrong,
04:50and I thought I was doing my job.
04:52I'm excited for you, Mr. Chairman, and the people of Oklahoma,
04:54that you convinced Elon Musk to not shut down the Social Security office
04:57in your district.
04:58Which Social Security offices should be shut down?
05:01Because apparently they've published a list.
05:05Let me finish, Brian.
05:06That's how I knew there was one targeted by this.
05:09Let me finish my statement.
05:10Sure.
05:11They have published a list, at least as of last week,
05:13of 47 different offices, Social Security offices,
05:16across the country that they intended to shut down.
05:20You have succeeded, and I look forward to hearing more about your advocacy
05:24in this regard, in saving the Social Security office in your district.
05:29And I'm just simply asking, should that same courtesy extend
05:32to your colleagues from Indiana and from Georgia and from Texas
05:36who sit on the dais?
05:38Why is that office any better than my colleagues,
05:40the Republican colleagues on this committee,
05:42who have offices in their districts?
05:44If you contact and make your case, then it shouldn't.
05:48Who'd you contact?
05:49I contacted the relevant departments, actually.
05:52Did you talk to Mr. Musk?
05:53Who'd you talk to at DOJ?
05:54We visited with DOJ representatives as well.
05:58Did that include Mr. Musk?
05:59I'm just curious.
06:00Not one-on-one.
06:02What does that mean, not one-on-one?
06:03No, I did not talk to him.
06:05I talked to the staff over there.
06:07I mean, maybe we can publish a guide for every member of Congress
06:11about what 24-year-old DOJ staffer members should call
06:17to save the Social Security office in their district
06:19the way that Chairman Cole did.
06:21That might be something that would be of benefit, I think,
06:23to millions of Americans
06:25and their elected representatives here in Washington.
06:27You get my point, Mr. Cole.
06:29This is no way to run a federal government.
06:32In my view, it should not be simply by virtue of your stature
06:38and your position in the Republican Party
06:41that you're able to convince these folks that your office,
06:45that this division should be saved within your district.
06:48And Americans in all these other states.
06:50The National Weather Center, there's only one of them.
06:52It's not hard to save it because its mission is pretty critical.
06:55There are plenty of installations.
06:57There are plenty of facilities across the country
06:59that are either one or two or three that are not,
07:02we're not talking about wide swaths,
07:04that ultimately are on the chopping block.
07:06And I'm just simply suggesting to you,
07:08and I find it hard to believe you wouldn't agree with me on this point,
07:12that this is no way to run the federal government,
07:16that essentially we should allow the administration
07:18to unilaterally dismantle different agencies,
07:21mass closures, mass purges,
07:23and then leave it to Republican members of Congress
07:26to ultimately call in and ask for a favor, ask for a waiver,
07:30and hopefully pull it off for their constituents.
07:33I made my case.
07:34Well, in any event,
07:36if that is the new way in which the federal government will operate,
07:42I fear for the precedent it sets for future years.
07:44You haven't been here during a BRAC process or something like that.
07:46I'll digress.
07:47That happens all the time.
07:48Things get closed.
07:49I digress.
07:50People agree or disagree.
07:53I know the ranking member sounded like she wanted to expound upon that.
07:56I don't know if she would care to respond.
07:58When we talk about that we didn't do anything with police
08:02in the District of Columbia, we did.
08:04That is clear, that there is $1.1 billion for police, fire,
08:09EMT services, et cetera.
08:11I was just fascinated all of a sudden
08:14that one satellite weather service,
08:17I believe if you take a look at Project 2025,
08:21it calls for the elimination of NOAA,
08:23and the fact is they're moving to the elimination of NOAA,
08:26which gives us the information that comes from weather satellites
08:30so that we know what to do.
08:32I just want to make this point.
08:36It's true.
08:37I said earlier, and Mr. Noguchi, we're not here.
08:44I'll deal with the Army Corps projects cut by $1.1, $1.4 billion.
08:53Now with this one-year CR, we put those projects, where they go,
08:59how much funding they get into the hands of Musk and Trump,
09:06President Trump, I don't want to be disrespectful, and Russ Vogt.
09:11What funding is there?
09:13Well, if you happen to be high on the pecking order,
09:16you can call and say, whoa, my project needs to get done.
09:20My project needs to get done.
09:22This one needs to get done,
09:24depending on where you are in the pecking order of this body
09:27or this institution.
09:29However, it's no longer in the prerogative of all of us
09:35making a determination, Democrats and Republicans, House and Senate,
09:40making the determination of that level of funding
09:43and which projects get funded.
09:46It's in our hands,
09:48and that's what we're talking about is giving all of that up.
09:52Giving that up.
09:54Why?
09:55I don't get it.
09:56One more final comment.
09:57Look, I say to my Republican colleagues,
09:59if you want to send legislative proposals to the Congress for deliberation,
10:05go ahead.
10:07Then members can vote whether they want to shutter offices
10:11or they want to cut funding.
10:13It is really unlawful to do this unilaterally,
10:17and that is what is happening here.
10:19That is what Musk and President Trump are doing.
10:23It is unilateral.
10:25We should be so strong to stand up and say no, no.
10:31And in terms of shutting the government down,
10:33if you don't want to negotiate,
10:36if the Speaker says no, it's this way or the highway,
10:41then that makes it where the shutdown decision is made,
10:45not on the other side of the aisle.
10:47I couldn't agree more with the ranking member,
10:50and I would just simply say we live in a constitutional republic
10:54in which the American people elect representatives to this body
11:00to make decisions with respect to funding the government.
11:04And the notion that now members are left to petition
11:09unnamed new special government employees
11:13in a new department of governmental efficiency
11:16to decide whether or not a Social Security office
11:20is going to stay open in their district,
11:22to decide whether or not the National Weather Service,
11:24which has a facility in my district,
11:27whether NOAA, which has a large facility in my district,
11:31will be on the chopping block.
11:33That is not, in my view, consistent with, of course, past precedent,
11:38but fundamentally the spirit of the Constitution
11:41and the separation of powers.
11:43And I think it's unfortunate and deeply disheartening
11:48that so many of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, I think,
11:50have taken what is very clearly a short-sighted view
11:53and this assumption that their majorities
11:56and the political winds being what they are,
11:58that that will last forever
12:00and there won't come a day in which
12:02there is a Democratic president
12:05and a Democratic House or a Democratic Senate
12:08and you will be living under the precedent
12:12that you have tragically created.
12:15There's still time, in my view, to pull back.
12:18The time for doing that would be now.
12:20But in the meantime, I know there are a few offices.
12:23I was just reading this a moment ago
12:25and it looks like in Elizabeth City, Franklin, Greenville,
12:29and Roanoke Rapids, North Carolina,
12:31four Social Security offices closing.
12:34So maybe, Chairman Cole, you can give us the 20-year-old DOJ staffer
12:39that you talked to, give us their contact information
12:41so perhaps the chairwoman can call them
12:43and petition President Trump to save those four offices
12:47among the other 47 Social Security offices
12:49that are being dismantled across the country.
12:51I yield back.