FourFourTwo sat down with Manchester City star, and 2024 Ballon d'Or winner Rodri to discuss how he reads the game and why he does what he does on the pitch. Speaking to Adam Clery, he explains what it's like when a defender 'inverts' into midfield, how he balances defence with attack, and why he might even end up as a striker one day...
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00:00Hello everybody, welcome to the 442 YouTube channel, and if you think you are more excited
00:14than I am today, you are wrong. We are joined by Rodri. Between us, four Premier League
00:21titles, one FA Cup, one Champions League, one European Championship, one Ballon d'Or,
00:26and one North East Under-15s Counties Cup 2003. We've done alright between us. First
00:32question, what does this mean to you? Congratulations first of all, but to win an honour like this
00:38at this stage of your career, how does that feel?
00:41Well, I mean, I cannot explain with words. It means a lot to me, my family, also my country.
00:49Not only because me, the players, as we said before, who didn't want it. But yeah, I think
00:56it's a consequence of the work hard and winning collectively with the team and the years
01:01we've had, the success of my team and the national team.
01:04We were just talking before about how it's seen as slightly unusual for a player in your
01:08position to win an award like that. Now obviously no two midfielders are ever really the same.
01:14Chris called you a defensive midfielder, you called yourself a holding midfielder. There's
01:17so many different ways of playing the role. What I'd love to know, this might be a really
01:21big question, but how do you see your game? What is Rodri to Rodri?
01:27What is Rodri to Rodri? Well, I think it depends, of course, on the team you play, but I think
01:35my role is very similar in my club and my national team. But I think you're kind of
01:40the guy who ensures that everything has to work. You don't have a specific thing to do,
01:48you just have lots of things to do. Maybe your role is different from one day to another
01:53in the sense that things change depending on the team you face. And you have to make
01:58sure the team works. It's about leadership, it's about managing, it's about understanding
02:04the game. And I think it's something I've been growing a lot all these years, yeah.
02:09I think it's interesting you said it varies from game to game, because whether it's for
02:12Man City or the national side, you're so critical to that first phase of play. But obviously
02:17that can be so different between oppositions. Some games will give you lots of space, some
02:21games will be very aggressive. How much of that is down to you to determine in the match?
02:26You basically make the call on the pitch, I'm going to take this position or this situation.
02:32I cannot tell you, it's just how you smell the game, how you feel when you find the spaces.
02:42Every game is different, and understanding that we have a way of playing and understanding
02:48that I'm in a team that is very tactical and everyone knows what to do. And in that way
02:53it's easier. But I, let's say, have a bigger role in that sense, in tactics. Maybe Phil
03:04is worried about being positioned here, but maybe after 20 minutes he's there. My work
03:11is to make Phil go there, because there is real space. And this is the way it works for
03:16a midfielder.
03:17You mentioned, I presume that's Phil Foden you're referring to, you've had so many different
03:22partners in the midfield. There's been a real trend over the last two years of defenders
03:26now stepping up to join midfielders in there. We spoke to quite a few defenders about how
03:31they make that adaptation, how they adapt to the role, but I was kind of curious from
03:34the other side, is it different for you being a midfielder and having a defender in there?
03:39Do you have to adjust your game to sort of know that's not maybe their natural position?
03:42I think it's more difficult to do what, for example, Stones have done or Cancelo in the
03:48past or Akanji sometimes when they play that role. I think when we move back as a centre-back,
03:56we're used to look 360, you know, and be surrounded by players. And when you play centre-back,
04:02you just have players on front, you know, you have no worry about your back. And with
04:07the ball it's more chill, you know, I speak with the centre-backs like, your job with
04:11the ball is so easy, so easy. Without the ball it's different, you know, without the
04:15ball it's so key, it's demanding the position and it's very tricky. But, you know, yeah,
04:21I think that process is more easy in my way than their way.
04:25Do they agree with you when you tell them their jobs?
04:27I think so, yeah. I think they might because when they play midfielders, they have to look,
04:32you know, 360, play one-two touch, you know, switch off, defend, attack. I think it's
04:37the most complete part in the field, you know.
04:40Do you think that makes your job different when you're in there with them? Like, let's
04:43say you were in with a more natural midfielder, will you be looking out for them a little
04:46bit more or will you just sort of be trusting them to do their job?
04:50I trust, I trust in the way. I think, of course, they will look at me when they play that role
04:58and the same way I remember in the World Cup before I know I'm going to play there
05:03as a centre-back, I watch clips of centre-backs, how they behave, how they look at each other,
05:09you know, the line, everything. You have to look at the people that really know that role,
05:13you know.
05:15Not looking for sort of specific names here because I'm sure you couldn't give us them
05:18but is there a specific kind of player you like to be in the middle with? Like, if you're
05:23being joined by somebody, would you prefer it's somebody, say, really athletic, who'll
05:26cover the ground, someone who is technically great so you can trust them with the ball
05:30in a tight situation? Do you have a preferred kind of partner?
05:32Yeah, of course. I would say the same. The best partner is the one that defends and helps
05:39you a lot and is so good and tactical with the ball. Normally, what you find is players
05:46that are very technical, they don't defend much or not good at defending and the opposite,
05:51you know. I think the balance is for me the best, you know. But if you ask me that I'm
05:56a defensive midfielder, I normally want a guy that can help me when I'm not in the zone
06:02or whatever.
06:03Is there any specific part of your game that you really have had to work to develop? Because
06:08obviously you're getting to an age now where you'll never stop improving, you'll never
06:11stop wanting to develop, but you've come a long way in sort of your journey as a footballer.
06:16What have been the areas that you've had to really work on, whether it's through coaching
06:19or just by yourself?
06:20Yeah, I think one was very, very key. I remember my first year at City, I was a player that
06:31used to jump a lot, you know, go forward and sometimes it's good, but many of them it's
06:39not good because if they play you're in your back, the team is like naked, you know. You
06:45have to defend 70 metres behind and it's something I really, really improve and that's
06:50to identify when to go, when to stay, you know. And that role for me is the most important,
06:56the balance. That gives you the balance, you know. In the moment you lose that position,
07:00that midfielder, you lose the heart of the team. And most of the goals, I don't know
07:05how the statistics, but most of the goals come in the central area, you know. So if
07:12you're there, it's more difficult for them to find a way.
07:15Is that something a particular coach has worked on with you or is that something you identified
07:18yourself that you needed to improve?
07:19No, no, no. They, pa, pa, pa, pa. With clips, with videos, you see you're going to the side,
07:27why you go to the side, you just protect this, you know. It's very, very demanding and by
07:33the time they saw I got it, they just start, you know, giving me that freedom. But until
07:39that it was like the first year, pa, pa, pa. Very strict.
07:43This might sound a really silly question because we're sitting either side of the
07:47Ballon d'Or, but is there any part of your game right now you really do want to still
07:50improve? Anything you think that you'd like to refine that in the next year or two?
07:54Yeah, yeah. I think I have a massive, many parts of my game that can be improved. Many,
08:03many of them. Most of them in terms of the head sometimes, be more cold, not that passionate.
08:13Try to be a better leader every day, that role. And in terms of football, thinking on
08:21football, yeah, of course, 100%. The last step, for example, is something I paid a lot
08:28of attention in the last year, you know, to be more involved in goals, as is, you know,
08:32be more decisive in this sense. But maybe, I don't know, I control more when I'm tired
08:39or exhausted. Don't move that much, try to stay. Yeah, many things to improve, yeah.
08:46I think it's really interesting you talked about the mental side of it there, especially
08:49when you're attacking. With a player in your position, this is something I've always wondered
08:53about, if you're in the final third, so the responsibilities of defence maybe aren't quite
08:57as pressing, how much of your brain power goes towards helping with the attack and taking
09:03up a position where you could help, versus watching out for potentially the team losing
09:07the ball and being in the right position if that happens?
09:10That balance is what gives you, if you're good or not, because if you're too worried
09:14about counter-attacks, you don't help the team attacking. If you are too overconfident
09:19of attacking, you can be punished. It's trying to find the balance and being very safe, you
09:24know, when the ball goes through you in those situations where all the players are in front
09:29of you, you have to be very safe, you know. But at the same time, you cannot be lazy with
09:33the ball and be safe. You have to find the key pass, risky sometimes, it's a matter of
09:38identifying the moment, you know.
09:41Is that something that you'll have to decide yourself in the moment, or is that something
09:44that's really coached?
09:45Yeah, no, it's something that's very difficult to coach. It's a matter of feeling, when you
09:52see the movement, when you see the line, when you see it's time to keep the ball, when it's
09:56time to accelerate, it's something they cannot teach you, you know. It's something you can
10:01see in other players, that's true.
10:03I thought it was really interesting, Chris touched upon the goal you scored in the Champions
10:06League final. My perspective of that game from watching it was that it had quite a good
10:13handle on what you were going to do and they were quite well disciplined, they were making
10:16it very difficult. And it was you that popped up with the goal. Now watching it back, there's
10:22a huge, huge amount of space on the edge of that box and I've always wondered, was that
10:26something you prepared for? Because it seems almost a deliberate rush of all the players
10:30to the near post to leave that space. Did you sort of know that was going to happen
10:33or was that something you sensed?
10:34No, no, I didn't know that was going to happen. It's a matter of seconds. I remember following
10:40the game in that chance and the ball just appeared there, but I think I was one second
10:48earlier than everyone and I made two, three steps before.
10:51You had quite a lot of ground, watching it back, you had quite a lot of ground.
10:54Because when Manu gives the ball and I think I'm behind him, you know, and he was very
10:59far from the central area. So, yeah, I think I remember I did like two, three steps because
11:05I felt that maybe something could happen there. But yeah, when I see the ball there, I was
11:10like...
11:11I was going to say, what was going through your head when you sort of... because it must
11:14be a snap second decision.
11:15Yeah, it was seconds.
11:16Because if you overcommit to that and you don't get there, that's a huge amount of trouble.
11:20I think this is something that I admire from the number nines. It's that little fraction
11:28of a second when they are alone, but maybe the centre-back is looking at the ball and
11:33he's making one step and that's what makes him have the space, you know. It's something
11:38I admire a lot because we don't have that feeling of where the ball is going to come,
11:42you know. They are the best in that. But yeah, I remember that moment when the ball came
11:46to me, you have one, two seconds to think what to do with that ball, you know. And I
11:50always say that I first think to shoot strong the ball, but at the end I was like, no, you
11:56only have one. Just put it to the corner and yeah, definitely it was good.
11:59Does this mean we could see you getting a run as a centre-forward at some point if that's...
12:03Imagine. Not with my speed, but more or less because now the way we play, most of the times
12:10we play in the central, in the frontal area, so sometimes we are number 10.
12:17How do you think your game will change over the next couple of years? Because you said
12:20before about how you want to work on the mental side of things. Do you think you'll become
12:22more, I don't want to say sort of like stationary, but be better just sort of...
12:26It's something I speak a lot with my friends and I ask them. I have a really confident
12:34opinion on what is going to behave and I think it's going to be very similar to handball.
12:39You know handball? They stay all over the area, just blocking. They don't try to go
12:46man-mark or try to steal, they're just there. And I think we saw, in my opinion it's a mess,
12:53but we see a lot of now when the team feels that on paper it's maybe worse than the other,
13:00so defensive and this makes maybe 11 players almost in the box. And I think that's the
13:09new football. Counter-attack, the team that is defending and the team that is trying to
13:15open them, very spread. I think this is how we see football in the next few years.
13:20I think we see that actually quite a lot in sort of the big clashes between the big teams
13:23because obviously the attacking threat is so big. We see a lot of sort of, even from
13:27like the very top teams in the Premier League, they'll go sort of quite with a compact mid-block
13:31against each other and it kind of makes certainly the centre of the pitch very difficult to
13:35play through and to play in. Do you think that's because we're going to see that pretty
13:38much constantly now?
13:39I think so. I think it's a big indicative that between two big teams you see when you
13:47defend you defend very back. Because normally I punish you, I punish you. Maybe the game
13:55is more open, but now you're seeing that it doesn't matter if the level of the two teams
14:00are similar. When you defend you go back and when you attack you spread. So I don't know.
14:07Cagey is the word we use for that. A bit sort of reluctant to go out. You very rarely
14:11now see sort of open basketball games. I suppose that's actually a good way to analyse it.
14:17Trying to avoid a basketball game that becomes a handball game.
14:18That's why I enjoy most of the games we play against Liverpool. It's great because I don't
14:26care, I want to punish you and we have the same feeling. I don't care, I want to punish
14:30you and they are not conservative. They go with their mentality. Once you're on the pitch
14:39you enjoy those moments because it's the same game every day.
14:43The crowd must be so different as well. One thing we always try and ask is, has there
14:47been a team in the last few years that you've played against that maybe people wouldn't
14:51have expected to be a huge challenge for either Spain or Manchester City but who really surprised
14:55you with how good they were and how intelligent their football was?
14:59I'm not surprised but there are some teams that you don't know or you know but they are
15:06the worst for you. For example, Tottenham for us. Especially when Kane was in it and
15:14Son and the other one, as Moura or whatever. Because they have the perfect way to play
15:20against us. I remember that game in Tottenham Stadium was difficult. I never won it the
15:30first time but it was like, why is it so tricky? You cannot understand but sometimes it's like this.
15:37Chris already asked you, I was going to leave this question off but you've sort of touched
15:41upon it a little bit. You said you wouldn't know, you don't want to plan too far ahead
15:43in terms of thinking about being a coach or a manager. It's clear that you think about
15:47this in the way that a coach or manager would. Is that really not something you're considering
15:51at this point? Have you got even half an eye on doing it?
15:53Well, imagine right now?
15:55Well, not right now but you've got to start somewhere.
15:58No, I don't know. I think what I see is as a footballer, as a coach, you lose a lot of
16:06time in terms of travels and coaches and staff, they have the same life of players without
16:14playing and this is something that makes me a bit… It's not because I don't like
16:19coaching, it's the circumstances of being a coach. So, I don't know, maybe I retire
16:24and I want to coach or maybe not, I don't know.
16:28Mordy, thank you so much for joining us. Congratulations again.
16:31Thank you very much.
16:32Well, there you go. Actually, do you know what's really mad about that is I will go
16:37home for Christmas and both of my parents will still ask when I'm getting a real job
16:43but anyway, obviously, I wasn't going to make the actual Ballon d'Or winner sit there
16:47while I went through the whole, please like and subscribe to the channel stuff.
16:51So, please like the video and subscribe to the channel because if you have watched us
16:56before, you'll have heard me say that when people subscribe and that number grows, we
16:59get to go and do loads of cool things and that is the cool things I have been talking
17:04about. So, if you are a subscriber already, you literally made that happen.
17:09Like, genuinely, because of all of you lot, when we ring up the actual best football player
17:14in the world and say, would you like to come on the channel and do a little video, he says
17:18yes and not who are you, how did you get this number.
17:21Anyway though, I digress, you can get me across all the social medias at Adam Cleary, C-L-E-R-Y.
17:25I would dearly love to hear what you thought about that interview and you can put it in
17:28the comment section down below or you can tell me directly and if you would like to
17:32share that video around, that is something that greases the wheels of content and may
17:37help us do something very cool like that in the future again.
17:39But also, if you would like to hear more from Roger, then why not pick up the brand new
17:43awards issue of 442 in which he is not only the video interview, but he is our cover star
17:49as well. We did a whole other interview with him about Man City, about the Ballon d'Or,
17:53about all the stuff you would expect normal people to ask him.
17:57It comes in this bag and is really, is that the cover? No, where is it? Really pretty.
18:02And you get this calendar too, apparently. Anyway, yes, that's it. That's the Roger
18:07interview. That's probably the greatest thing I've done in my entire career so far.
18:11Thank you very much for watching. Literally love every single one of you very dearly. Goodbye.