Sam Gupta and Specialized ambassador, Alan Murchison, put the SL8 and the SL7 head to head along with the 8th generation of Specialized Venge.
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00:00Today we are down in Winchester and we're currently sat in the South Down Social Cafe
00:09and today I've been joined by Specialized Ambassador Alan Murchison because this is
00:13a man who has ridden over 70 Specialized bikes, he has an in-depth knowledge of the S-Works
00:18SL7 and has recently taken delivery of the SL8.
00:22So the question that I'm asking him is, what is the difference between the two?
00:27We've been out on the roads to do some real-world data testing, it's a little bit ghetto, it's
00:31a bit of a car park test, but it is going to give us some numbers to have a look at
00:35to see how these two really perform.
00:42I think a really good place to start actually is just going to be looking at the similarities
00:46between both of these bikes because, you know, this is the eighth generation of the Tarmac
00:50so it is another iteration of it and that means that there are a lot of similarities
00:55and I think one of the key ones actually is just the shape of the frame, they're still
00:59sticking with the drop seat stays, the frame shape itself actually hasn't changed all that
01:04much and the geometry is identical.
01:06It's also meant that comfort of the bike I think is also going to be quite similar, Specialized
01:10did quote that there was a 6% improvement in compliance at the saddle.
01:14When you've ridden this bike, your short experience with it so far, could you feel any difference
01:18in comfort between the two bikes?
01:19No.
01:20No.
01:21I think 6% is a very small margin.
01:23I couldn't feel any real difference, it just felt really, really responsive without being
01:28mega stiff because normally you say well it's responsive, that means stiff and stiff means
01:32uncomfortable.
01:33Yeah.
01:34It seems responsive but it doesn't feel like you're riding a plank of wood, for example.
01:39The only other similarity that I can really draw from this bike actually is the fork of
01:44the bike really replicates that of the Venge fork, I'd say the two between the SL7 and
01:49the SL8, I think they're actually quite different.
01:52The SL7 fork is a bit more circular and actually a bit narrower, whereas the SL8 fork is definitely
01:57flatter and a bit longer, they've really dialled in the aero at the front of the bike.
02:01I think the other thing is the head tube as well, there's a chunk there and that's more
02:05reminiscent of the Venge, so when I first saw this bike, it looked quite odd because
02:10it looked very front heavy because it was built up at the front and then very, very
02:13small rear stays and I wasn't convinced about the aesthetics of it, whereas when you see
02:18it built up, yeah it looks pretty good.
02:20Yeah.
02:22Looking at the price and weights of the bikes on offer, an interesting picture emerges.
02:27Not only is the SL8 now cheaper compared to the SL7 in certain builds, but now you don't
02:32need the S-Works SL8 to beat the S-Works SL7 in weight.
02:37The difference between the top end SL7 and SL8 is a claimed 120 grams, however, the lower
02:43grade 10R carbon version of the SL8 is just 100 grams heavier than the S-Works version.
02:50So if you want a bike as light as the S-Works SL7, then opt for the cheaper variant of
02:55the SL8 and then build it up in a matching spec.
03:05I was really surprised at how fast the SL7 was and climbing it was considerably faster
03:11than anything else.
03:12Where the Venge came into its own was once you started getting over 50k an hour, like
03:15dual carriageway stuff, which is rare.
03:18To be brutally honest, we all have delusions of riding everywhere at 50k an hour, it's
03:22not something that any of us do on a regular basis.
03:25So the Venge was still very, very fast above 50k an hour, but rolling A roads, climbs,
03:30the time up was just fast from the box, you know, it was a really, really fast, easy get
03:35on with bike and it felt fast and then the numbers, the little test that we did, it proved
03:40to be really fast on the road.
03:42Just day-to-day riding is fast.
03:43So just run us through, what did that test consist of in terms of the parkour?
03:47It was a climb, an 800 meter climb.
03:50It was a couple of K of rolling, bumpy A road, sort of mixed surface and then there was 5k
03:55of dual carriageway.
03:57So a little bit of everything, nothing too technical and I was looking for repeatability
04:01as well.
04:02So I did it on a bit of road that I think, according to Strava, I've done over 700 times.
04:07So I know the road and we did it based on heart rate and power.
04:11So we did a run on the Venge, we did a run on the SL7 and we did a run on the SL8.
04:17Bikes were pretty much set up the same.
04:18They're all running Dura-Ace Di2, power saddles, CLX wheels, tire setups almost identical.
04:25So they were all as close as they could be.
04:28Now one caveat, obviously I like to tinker with bikes, the Venge and the SL7, ceramic
04:34bottom brackets, ceramic jockey wheels, wax chains, et cetera.
04:39The SL8, straight out of the box, literally no changes at all.
04:43So it's got a standard bottom bracket, it's got a greased up chain from the factory and
04:47it's got a stack on it like a Big Mac.
04:5035mm of stack there, so compared to the SL7 which has 15mm, that's a sizeable difference.
04:57And I think the other thing as well was that on the SL8 there is no oversized pulley wheel
05:02system.
05:03It's a standard.
05:04It's completely standard.
05:05Straight out of the box.
05:06Cool.
05:07Okay, so run us through some of the numbers.
05:08So first off we had the Venge, then the SL7, then the SL8.
05:10How did the Venge perform?
05:11The Venge was really good.
05:13Today we had a tailwind on a dual carriageway which is always going to favour a full aero
05:18bike.
05:19So climbing, we did the climb, the Venge was climbing at 19.9kph and it did the little
05:26loop that we did in 10 minutes and 8 seconds, maxing out at 66kph.
05:30So it was fast, it climbed okay and it was good and it felt really stable.
05:36So the Venge was good.
05:37Okay, cool.
05:38And then the SL7.
05:39The SL7 was climbing like an absolute demon.
05:41Putting in context, the same climb, it averaged 20.4kph, so half a kilometre an hour faster
05:47on a climb that's only a minute and a half long.
05:51It was almost identical speed.
05:53Maxed out at 65kph, not quite as fast as the Venge and honestly it was within 1-2 seconds.
06:00So to be honest, in the real world that's kind of negligible differences.
06:03Yeah, it was what you'd expect.
06:05The SL7 climbed faster, it was faster on the bumpy rolling aero road, the Venge was faster
06:10above 50kph.
06:11We're not telling anybody anything they're not going to expect.
06:14Exactly.
06:15And if you went to the aero engineers at Specialized and said that to them, they'd go, yeah, that
06:19makes sense.
06:20That's where you make sense.
06:21For sure.
06:22Then SL8.
06:23It's bog standard SL8.
06:24Now bear in mind, this was the first time I rode this bike today, so I've done nothing
06:27to it.
06:28I went out, it climbed at 20.6kph.
06:32So that's 0.2 faster than the SL7 and 0.7 of a kilometre faster than the Venge.
06:38Wow.
06:39Down to the fact is when the climb was flattening off, I was actually going down the gears.
06:42I was speeding up.
06:43You needed to.
06:44Yeah.
06:45It was remarkable.
06:46It did it actually 7 seconds faster over 10 minutes.
06:50And again, very short climb.
06:51So as soon as you start to extrapolate that out over something longer, the gains will
06:55kind of compound.
06:56It was mad.
06:57And it also maxed out at 69kph.
06:59So quicker than the Venge.
07:02Quicker than the Venge and nearly 4k an hour faster than the SL7.
07:05Now bear in mind.
07:06Wow.
07:07That's running that stuff.
07:08I can't get down.
07:09So it was really, really quick, but it just felt fast.
07:12And there's quite a lot of things I can do to make this bike faster and personalise it.
07:15But it was fast.
07:16So it was faster on the climb.
07:17Yeah.
07:18It was faster max speed and it was faster A to B. So if you actually put that into context
07:22on a 10 minute test section, you go half an hour, 21 seconds over half an hour faster
07:28than the SL7 based on real ghetto testing.
07:32But it felt comfortable.
07:33It felt easy to ride.
07:36I hadn't dialled it in at all.
07:37There was nothing I'd done.
07:38I just rode it.
07:39Yeah.
07:40And it was bloody quick.
07:41Well, okay.
07:42I think that's a really important point.
07:43I reckon because in the real world, how many of us are really like accurately tracking?
07:47I mean, most people ride bikes because they enjoy riding a bike.
07:51For a lot of people, it's not all about the data.
07:53Sometimes it's about that kind of intangible feel a bike gives you.
07:56So in terms of ride qualities, like we were saying, you are so dialled in with the SL7.
08:01You really know that bike.
08:02Obviously, this is still new to you, but that also means you're going to be able to pinpoint
08:06where things are different.
08:08So how does the ride feel compare from the SL8 to the SL7?
08:13Okay.
08:14That, it feels more comfortable and it feels more responsive, which those two things really
08:19go hand in hand.
08:20So you think comfort, you go Roubaix, comfortable bike, it's comfortable.
08:23You could be on it all day.
08:24Responsive, you think, I could do an hour and a half, two hours on this.
08:27That feels comfortable and it feels responsive and it feels fast.
08:32Like doing just under 70k an hour, that's pretty fast on the first time out on a bike.
08:38And it was planted.
08:39Bear in mind, cross tailwind today, so you've got the wind gusting in, it's running the
08:42same wheels.
08:43There's something they've done with a back end and how it feels, it just feels fast.
08:48So actually, one thing I found with my time with the SL8 is how stiff the bike felt.
08:52I'd be interested to hear from you.
08:54How do you think the stiffness compares, not only to the SL7, but also the Venge?
08:59The Venge was always a fairly harsh ride.
09:00Yeah.
09:01Because there was no comfort, basically, in that bike.
09:03Nah, it was never about comfort.
09:05It won a lot of races, but it wasn't as easy to get on with.
09:09You know what I mean?
09:10You felt tired after it, whereas you could ride the SL7 day in, day out.
09:14You could do long days.
09:15You could do a training camp.
09:16You could do 25 hours in a week and you wouldn't feel completely battered.
09:20I would defy anybody to do 25 hours on a Venge and not feel tired.
09:25It was a ruffled ride.
09:27With this bike, I think immediately it just feels more comfortable.
09:30Now, I'm not going to be deluded.
09:32It's got a high stack.
09:33It's got wide bars.
09:34That's always going to feel more comfortable, but it's bloody quick.
09:36That shouldn't be quick in that setup for me.
09:39Not at 69k an hour with 35mm stack.
09:41That's really surprising.
09:42It shouldn't be.
09:43So you think I take that out and then I will play about with the position a bit.
09:46It's good.
09:47We've come away from ride feel and we've come away from the numbers.
09:50In terms of aesthetics, there's a lot of ethos found within this bike, specifically towards
09:57the rear end.
09:58What are your thoughts in terms of look?
09:59I like the look.
10:00I didn't like it as a frame set when I saw it initially, just because of the bulbous
10:03head tube on its own.
10:04I wasn't convinced and it looked very skinny at the end.
10:07It looked almost like a TT triathlon bike at the front and a crit bike at the rear.
10:12I thought it was an odd combination.
10:13It just looked unbalanced.
10:15When you have it built up, it looks great.
10:17This one's obviously some pearlescent, funky matte white, which that monochrome look is
10:22really cool.
10:23It is.
10:24Yeah.
10:25I love it.
10:26So built up, I think it looks ace.
10:27I think it looks really good.
10:28And it's also gone away from the kind of aerofoil tubes.
10:30There's quite a lot of round tubes going on.
10:31I like it.
10:33So you and I have been privy to some of the data from Specialized, you know, Vontu, Milan
10:38San Remo.
10:40What does that mean to you, to a man, woman, cyclist in the street?
10:44Not much.
10:46My issue with that data as well is that it is so far extrapolated from a real-world race
10:49situation.
10:50That just, to me, feels a bit like marketing, but for the man in the street that's going
10:56to go and buy one of these bikes, what does he or she care about?
10:59Yeah.
11:00And that's the thing.
11:01That's why I always like to do this ghetto testing because people are like, ah, the tires
11:04or the power meter or the crank length or whatever, that feels fast.
11:07I ride my bike a lot.
11:09I've had a lot of S-Works, I've had a lot of road bikes.
11:12I think that gives you an opinion that's valid.
11:15As opposed to saying, well, it'll be however many seconds faster at Vontu or it'll be X
11:19minutes faster than Milan San Remo.
11:20None of us are going to race Milan San Remo.
11:23Not this week, I don't think.
11:24It's fast.
11:25It's easy to ride fast.
11:26I think that's something that's really important.
11:28So look at the data that you're going to get from marketing.
11:30My gut feel, having ridden it, is the numbers we're getting from Specialized Marketing downplay
11:35how good it is.
11:37Interesting.
11:38That would be, they've actually erred on the side of caution, in my opinion, because they
11:42did it with the SL7.
11:44I remember when it came out, they gave you these numbers on the SL7 and I did some ghetto
11:48testing on that.
11:49I was like, nah, it's faster than that.
11:50I spoke to some pretty key people in Specialized.
11:53I said, it's actually faster than the Venge, you know.
11:55Is it?
11:56I said, it is.
11:57On real roads, as a real person, and the problem is, is if you've got a world tour pro testing
12:02a bike, or you've got a wind tunnel, neither of those are the real world.
12:06No, no.
12:07It's a completely staged situation.
12:09How a world tour rider will ride a bike with a position, a pedaling technique, it's completely
12:15different.
12:16How they hold their head and how they hold their hands, it's all very different to normal
12:19cyclists.
12:20Even people like yourself.
12:21For sure.
12:22We love a bike and we ride a bike a lot, but we're not world tour level cyclists.
12:26Then you go to wind tunnels and you get data.
12:28Wind tunnel is only part of the parcel.
12:30It doesn't take into consideration the texture of the road, how fatigued you are.
12:35It's a finite number, but it's a very controlled environment.
12:37I think that's why you've got to ride the bike.
12:40I don't know if they're going to run demo bikes or whatever, I'm sure they will, because
12:43people go, well, why am I going to change this really good bike?
12:46That bike's easy to ride real fast.
12:48That's what you've got to say, is these numbers are great, but they're only a guideline.
12:52That's why I would say, get on the bike, ride it, play about with tyre pressures, play about
12:55with tyre weather, and see how you get on with it.
12:57Obviously, as we said, the speed data is one thing, but it's the ride feel that's what
13:02people are going to care about.
13:03I think we've both experienced the fact that this feels markedly different to the SL7.
13:08It does.
13:09It does.
13:10Even today, we're going down a dual carriageway, nearly hitting 70K an hour with a side tailwind.
13:16I never felt uncomfortable.
13:17I never felt unstable.
13:18I felt completely safe barring down the dual carriageway like that.
13:22No problem at all.
13:23There's not many bikes you could do that on straight out of the box.
13:25It felt really, really fast.
13:27It just feels intuitive as well.
13:31It's cool, but I'd say use the data numbers as a guideline.
13:34Don't use them as a benchmark, because I actually think that the numbers are going to be far
13:39better in real life than they are on a paper that's published by marketing.
13:44There we have it.
13:45Now, obviously, I think we do always have to make sure that we take a little pinch of
13:48salt when we're speaking to an ambassador, but this is someone who has got a vast amount
13:53of knowledge of the SL7 and the Venge, and basically every S-Works bike.
13:57Let us know your thoughts, though, down below.
13:59What do you think of the differences between the SL7 and the SL8?
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