In part 2 of our Tell Me Why episode, podcast host Maria Botros and Devika Mankani, Divisional Dead and Chief Psychologist at Fortes Education, discussed the consequences tech can have on people’s mental health, cognitive skills and sleep.
Devika: Recent studies have shown that we are desensitized now to attention
The ability to focus on one thing for an extended period of time has diminished, says Devika
Devika: The latest statistic has shown that 87% of adults take their phones into bed with them
We’re at a time where maybe we need to do less, and slow things down a little, says Devika
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Devika: Recent studies have shown that we are desensitized now to attention
The ability to focus on one thing for an extended period of time has diminished, says Devika
Devika: The latest statistic has shown that 87% of adults take their phones into bed with them
We’re at a time where maybe we need to do less, and slow things down a little, says Devika
Read the full story here:
See more videos at https://gulfnews.com/videos
Read more Gulf News stories here: https://bit.ly/2HLJ2km
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NewsTranscript
00:00It's almost like a compulsion to keep them entertained, right?
00:04And I feel like that sometimes as well.
00:06Oh my God, what are we going to do?
00:07And they'll wake up in the morning sometimes and say,
00:09okay, Saturday, what are we doing today?
00:11And I think my biggest piece of advice on that is
00:15we have to let them get bored.
00:18That's the first thing, right?
00:20That's when the critical thinking skills
00:22and the critical thinking processes actually start to spark.
00:26So we try to kind of…
00:37I think with adults,
00:39we've lost that human connection even more than children
00:42because we just don't want that noise anymore.
00:47We think that's our only escape,
00:49or at least in my case, sometimes that's the reason.
00:52It's my escape.
00:53And I actually sometimes run away from the human connections
00:57because I just can't.
00:59I can't handle it.
01:00How can I just find another way to sort of blow off some steam
01:05and to get that alone time without the tech?
01:09It's a difficult one.
01:11It is, but I will say,
01:13your level of awareness and insight on how you needed to use it
01:17and when you needed to use it
01:19already shows me that you're probably less likely
01:22to go absolutely nuts with it, right?
01:24Okay.
01:25Maybe that's not the case,
01:27but the fact that you're saying,
01:29I kind of needed it, you know, given my day,
01:33given that time,
01:35and I recognize that it was a bit,
01:37you know, maybe it was a bit too much,
01:39but it just allowed me,
01:40and this is the question that we discussed earlier, right?
01:43What does tech do to me,
01:45and what does it do for me, right?
01:48Now, if that hour online left you feeling more anxious
01:51because you were just looking at everyone's perfect lives
01:54and wondering, well, what happened to mine?
01:57Then it's creating anxiety,
01:58and then it hasn't worked for you.
02:00Then it's done something to you.
02:02But if you say, you know what, that was really good.
02:04It allowed me to just be in my little nothing box
02:08and just recoup
02:11and just kind of get my energy back and just relax,
02:15great.
02:17There's nothing wrong with that
02:18because that's what you needed at the time.
02:20And I'd say, you know, as long as it's intentional
02:22and you know what you're doing with it
02:25and why you're doing it, then it's okay.
02:27But if you said, you know, I didn't make it to work that day
02:30because I just kind of, you know, I'd lost track of time
02:33or I didn't send out all those emails
02:36and finish that, blah, blah, blah, whatever it was
02:38because I just got lost down this rabbit hole
02:41and went on a whole trail of information
02:44and found out something about somebody's life
02:46who I'm never going to meet again,
02:48which is often what happens,
02:51then that's probably more of a problem, right?
02:54And also if you said, hey, I'm spending all this time online
02:57but I still feel isolated,
03:00then it's not doing anything for your need
03:02for human connection, right?
03:04And a lot of adults now are coming out and saying,
03:07this is making me more anxious, right?
03:10So instead of being on social media
03:13throughout the day endlessly,
03:16we recommend sort of chunking it, right?
03:19You go, okay, I'll check maybe a little while in the morning
03:22and a little while in the evening and pace it.
03:24And that way the information that comes through you
03:27is in these two little windows.
03:30And I always, you know, I feel this about the news as well.
03:33I think it's too much, do you know what I mean?
03:35It's too much coming at us at one time.
03:38So growing up for me as well,
03:40it used to be golf news in the morning, right?
03:42A couple of minutes, you know,
03:44and my parents or my dad would say,
03:46hey, read this little sports article with me, 10 minutes,
03:49and he'd spend his time on there.
03:51Mom would read the newspaper.
03:52And then the news was done
03:53and you could do what you needed to do.
03:55And then in the evening there was news on TV
03:58and that was how we consumed information and news.
04:01But now it's all the time.
04:03And if it's distressing news, I don't think we're equipped.
04:06I mean, we need to work much harder to try and regulate.
04:09I feel that personally as well.
04:11If I keep seeing negative events
04:13and some of them are really horrific
04:15with some of the things that are happening in the world today,
04:17it's not easy to just put that away, switch off,
04:21and go back to whatever you were doing before
04:24because it affects our emotional state.
04:26So we have to be able to chunk and say,
04:29okay, I'm going to dedicate some time.
04:31And my personal policy now
04:33is if I'm already feeling a little bit,
04:35ooh, like, you know, today was a tough day,
04:37then I'll even just try and stay away from it
04:39because I know that there's a possibility
04:41that I'm going to see or hear something
04:43that's going to be distressing.
04:45But just to be able to chunk, you know,
04:48and also just ask those two questions again.
04:50What is it doing to me?
04:52If I feel worse off, then maybe I need to reconsider
04:55if this is actually helping.
04:58But what can it do for me?
05:00Well, maybe I can actually then get online
05:02and message my friends and connect with family
05:04who I haven't spoken to in a while
05:06or even just see what's going on in someone else's life,
05:08you know, all this kind of stuff that pops up
05:11without feeling like it's draining me
05:13or leaving me more anxious than when I started.
05:16Right. So we mentioned anxiety,
05:19but what are some of, like,
05:21the other psychological effects it could have?
05:23So, I mean, in terms of sleep,
05:25in terms of focus as well,
05:27because we do know that it's been affecting,
05:29you know, kids and adults alike.
05:32And in terms of, like, their focus,
05:34their ability to focus on certain tasks
05:36or even work or school.
05:39Yeah. So we're desensitized now to attention,
05:43and that's come out in the studies as well.
05:45Because everything is happening so quickly
05:47and there's so much coming at us
05:49that that ability to just focus on one thing
05:51for an extended period of time has diminished.
05:53Right.
05:55And, you know, there's brain activities
05:57and things that neuropsychologists
06:00and neurologists and psychologists and psychiatrists
06:02and teachers and parents are trying to figure out,
06:04well, how do we keep exercising memory?
06:07Because memory and attention are connected.
06:11Memory and focus are connected. Right?
06:13There was an interesting study that was conducted.
06:18So they had two groups of people,
06:20and they said, okay, both groups
06:22have to write out these trivia questions.
06:24And they told one group that your questions will be saved,
06:28and they told the other group that once you type them out,
06:31your data is going to be deleted.
06:33It's going to go.
06:35And then they did a recall test
06:37to see which group actually remembered the questions.
06:40And the group that were told that their information
06:43would be lost had a higher recall
06:45than the group that were told it would be saved.
06:48Because if I don't have to make that effort to remember it,
06:51maybe I won't.
06:53And so I'm not using my brain in that way.
06:56I'm not exercising the memory centers of the brain.
07:00And eventually, if you don't fire it, you lose it.
07:04Wow, that's interesting.
07:06So just something as simple as that.
07:08You need to remember this,
07:10and it's going to be sort of a memory exercise.
07:13Tells you to focus on it a little bit more,
07:16and you'll be more intentional with it.
07:18Because I often ask, and we have conversations about this all the time,
07:22is technology making us less efficient or more efficient?
07:26Is it making us more efficient in some ways,
07:29but emotionally we're connecting less?
07:31What's the point of that?
07:34But aside from memory and focus, sleep.
07:37Sleep is a big one.
07:39I think the last statistic that I saw
07:41was 87% of adults take their phone into bed with them.
07:45And I've done that often.
07:47Yeah, I mean, we're all guilty of that.
07:49But what's the impact of that, right?
07:51So we know that blue light affects hormones
07:54and the way melatonin is produced, which helps to induce sleep.
07:58So that's one thing just right off the bat.
08:01The blue light itself is keeping us awake.
08:04And then we know that sleep is foundational.
08:06It's foundational to physical health and psychological health.
08:09If we're not sleeping, we're not going to be well.
08:11It doesn't matter how organic our food is
08:13and how many antioxidants we're popping.
08:15If we don't sleep, we're not functioning well.
08:18And that's always one of the big questions
08:21that comes up in any family meeting or with any child
08:25who seems to be deviating a little bit from an expectation.
08:29And even just anyone who says,
08:31I don't feel like myself anymore.
08:33A lot of the time you find when you dig a little bit deeper,
08:36they're just not sleeping.
08:38So then we say, okay, let's look at sleep hygiene
08:40and try and make it a little bit boring, okay?
08:42Because that's what everyone's like.
08:44I don't want anything boring anymore.
08:46And just get into bed with a book or a drawer or do nothing.
08:49Have you ever thought about that?
08:51Do nothing in bed.
08:52And they go, how can I do nothing in bed?
08:54Well, maybe that'll help you sleep.
08:56So we know that sleep and insomnia is a major problem right now.
09:02There's lots of reasons for that.
09:05But bringing technology into bed
09:08is just stimulating this entire cognitive process of thinking
09:12and analyzing and wondering and imagining.
09:15And that's just not the time for it.
09:18Of course.
09:19And I spoke to a doctor recently about sleep
09:21and the importance of sleep
09:23because I did have some difficulty with my sleep
09:25and my sleeping patterns.
09:27And she was talking about how sleep can actually,
09:31I mean, toy with your emotions.
09:33You can be a very impulsive, a very angry,
09:36a very aggressive person if you're not sleeping well,
09:39let alone with children.
09:41I mean, the tantrums that are usually thrown by a child
09:44could be because they're not sleeping well
09:47or they're overtired
09:49or they don't know how to express the exhaustion that they feel.
09:53And we as adults fall into that trap as well.
09:57I mean, there were times where I felt like
09:59I was just always anxious and angry.
10:01And it was mainly because I wasn't resting.
10:03My body was just on high alert the whole time.
10:07And I wasn't getting the rest that I needed.
10:09And it's just a vicious cycle.
10:12I mean, you're adding more and more consequences
10:15and more obstacles along your way by not sleeping.
10:18And I think it's crucial, and I think it is affected by tech.
10:22And I think it's the one thing that we need to work on.
10:25And I did hear a podcast before where the person speaking said,
10:28it's always good to just leave your phone in another room.
10:31Why did we get rid of those traditional alarm clocks?
10:34They were the best thing a person could do to themselves.
10:38I mean, having your phone there,
10:40I mean, the fact that it lights up throughout the night,
10:42even if you're not waking up completely,
10:45your brain is wired.
10:48And you know that something lit up next to you.
10:51And he was saying, completely leave it outside of your room.
10:55Don't even have it in the same room.
10:57I mean, then there's the whole idea of the waves
10:59and not having it next to your head the whole night.
11:02I mean, we're not even going to get into that,
11:04but we're just talking about sleep.
11:06So I think there's a lot to talk about that when it comes to the bedroom.
11:09Just bringing it into bed is the number one cause of insomnia.
11:14Yeah, absolutely.
11:1587% you were saying.
11:17We underestimate the circadian rhythm and how important that is.
11:20And obviously things like travel and stress can affect it.
11:23But you'll recover better from that
11:25if your circadian rhythm is more established.
11:27And sleep is the only time when our body repairs and regenerates.
11:34It's also the only time that information that we learned is assimilated.
11:38So if you don't sleep and we keep telling our students this
11:42and they go, no, I'm okay.
11:44But it's true, right?
11:46And then we know that teenagers need more sleep.
11:49And the younger you are sometimes, but also just if you're stressed sometimes,
11:53you actually need more sleep, but it's difficult.
11:56There was a great study that came out,
11:58and we've started to do it since whenever I remember.
12:01This is the irony.
12:02The study was talking about memory.
12:04And I have to remember to do this to help my memory.
12:09A diffuser with aromatherapy and essential oils
12:13for only two hours during the night improved memory,
12:17and it was a statistically significant number.
12:19I don't remember exactly what it was.
12:21So I thought, great, but we're all kind of struggling
12:23because we live in this distracted world right now.
12:25So many things competing for our attention.
12:28I know that my memory can be a bit wobbly.
12:31And so let's light this essential oil at night
12:33or put it in that diffuser for two hours and see how it goes.
12:37So we've been doing it based on the studies.
12:41But it's important because your senses are paying attention to something
12:46even when you aren't, right?
12:47So we think that it's just switching off, but it's not.
12:50That's actually when the real work happens.
12:52That's when the work begins.
12:54And it doesn't work if you sleep at 2 or 3
12:57because that circadian rhythm then changes.
13:00By 4 o'clock, your brain is doing different things.
13:03So if you don't give it that sort of 10, 11 onwards break,
13:07then it's not really restful.
13:09There's not much repair.
13:10There's not much regeneration.
13:13And so the majority of sleep needs to follow that pattern.
13:17I love that.
13:18Yeah.
13:19Okay.
13:20So right now, it's really hot.
13:22I mean, it's very difficult to do anything outdoors.
13:25And with kids, it's also very difficult to entertain them all the time,
13:31especially indoors.
13:32So like with after school
13:34and trying to get them to engage in different activities
13:38rather than sitting in front of an iPad or the TV
13:42or even a computer or a game or anything,
13:46what can parents do that is not stressful
13:51but at the same time is serving their children
13:56rather than just a quick fix of just giving them a screen?
14:00Yeah.
14:01I love that question because I think it's a big one.
14:05It's not easy because we're also in the last sort of decade,
14:09maybe decade and a half,
14:11there's this almost like a compulsion to keep them entertained.
14:15Yes.
14:16Right?
14:17And I feel like that sometimes as well.
14:18Oh, my God, what are we going to do?
14:19And they'll wake up in the morning sometimes and say,
14:21okay, Saturday, what are we doing today?
14:23And I think my biggest piece of advice on that is we have to let them get bored.
14:29That's the first thing, right?
14:30Okay.
14:31That's when the critical thinking skills
14:33and the critical thinking processes actually start to spark, right?
14:37So what do I do? It's so boring.
14:40I will often send them back and say, I really don't know.
14:44Can you go think about it and come back?
14:47And I promise you if I don't intervene,
14:49they will find something to do and they'll do something for an hour
14:52or they'll do something for 30 minutes,
14:54but they will figure out something and they'll come back.
14:57So it's important to give them tools, but it's also important to let them be
15:03because if we keep scheduling every minute,
15:05scheduling every hour and just plugging it in,
15:08there's no sense of what's going on in my inner world
15:12and how does that work and interact with my outer world.
15:16And we need to teach them to make that connection.
15:20But if I'm always feeding and it's one way,
15:22then I'm not allowing my child to make that connection.
15:25So actually when they come up to me and they say I'm bored,
15:28I go, yes, that's great.
15:30And I go, oh, mom, that's so mean.
15:32And I go, okay, well, here's an idea.
15:34Here's an idea.
15:35But a lot of the times there's no idea for me.
15:37Can you go have a think and come back?
15:39If you really, really struggle, maybe I'll suggest something.
15:42And it doesn't always work.
15:44Sometimes it really leads to, oh, my God, everything is so boring.
15:48It's the end of the world.
15:50And that's okay.
15:51That's okay.
15:52I have less anxiety about that now than I did when my children were younger
15:57because I also kind of felt like I had them.
16:01And this messaging was you have to stimulate and you have to do this.
16:05And, yes, you have to do all those things.
16:07But they also have to have nothing time.
16:10So that's probably one of my biggest advices.
16:13Give them nothing time.
16:15But also nudge them in this direction.
16:18Give them things to do.
16:20But don't feel compelled to feel every single minute
16:24because when they come up with things, it's exciting.
16:27So we came home a few months ago,
16:30and I couldn't see the dining chairs were, like, you know, all over the house.
16:34They weren't around the table anymore.
16:36And there was, like, all these things.
16:38The house just looked different.
16:40And I was like, oh, I'm tired today.
16:42What's going on?
16:43And I walked into the lounge, and they'd made a fort.
16:47And so they put chairs together and bed sheets and towels, and it was a mess.
16:52And obviously I was like, oh, my God, who's going to clean this?
16:55But they had fun.
16:56They did exactly what I wanted them to do.
16:58And then the fort had different purposes.
17:02And then by the end of it, they were like, can you leave this here for the whole week?
17:06And I was like, well, you know, we need to sit at the dining table.
17:09But I get it.
17:10I like the fact that now the focus is on that.
17:13And so one day, I don't even remember,
17:16but one day it was about a Greek something.
17:18And then one day it was like an Indian fort.
17:20And they were under attack.
17:22And there was a window.
17:23And, you know, there were, like, these little stickies on the window.
17:27So they just kind of worked with their environment.
17:29But I know if I had said, oh, do you remember we have Monopoly?
17:32Or do you remember that, you know, we have that thing to do?
17:35They probably wouldn't have come up with that.
17:37Of course.
17:38And they let their creative juices just flow.
17:40I mean, dining table chairs and bed sheets and let's put something together.
17:45I love that you mentioned that because we had a child psychologist as well, Dr. Haneen Jarrar.
17:49And she said the same thing.
17:51She sometimes would – they have a limit.
17:53Her kids have a limit with tech and, like, screens.
17:55She'll take them away.
17:56And she's like, you guys know, you know, your hour's up.
17:59What are we supposed to do?
18:00Find something.
18:01And she'll just leave them around the house.
18:03And she said the same exact thing that you said.
18:05And, I mean, I trust you both.
18:07But I love that.
18:09And I think a lot of parents, as you said,
18:11are always thinking of ways to keep their kids entertained.
18:15So what?
18:16I mean, just let them get bored.
18:18Let them think of something, even if they sit there and just stare out the window.
18:22Let them observe what the nature looks like.
18:25It's okay.
18:26We were like that as kids.
18:27I mean, we found ways to keep ourselves entertained.
18:29I mean, it wasn't always the TV.
18:31It wasn't always, I mean, not screens until, like, we were in middle school.
18:35But, I mean, it's okay.
18:37And I love that you said that.
18:38And I think it hit me as well.
18:40I mean, yeah, it is okay if they're bored.
18:41So what?
18:42I mean, it's not the end of the world.
18:44Right.
18:45Yeah.
18:46There's other things that we added.
18:47We got one of those table tennis things indoors.
18:49So the dining table, you just stick a net on that.
18:51Nice.
18:52And then, you know, I can't help be a psychologist at home.
18:55Dr. Daniel Amen did brilliant research on, what is it called?
19:02So just racket sports.
19:03Okay.
19:04And what that does for the brain.
19:05Okay.
19:07But we can't always run off to the tennis court and paddle and all of that.
19:10We did some of that over the summer when we traveled.
19:12But when you're at home and you need to do some of that inside,
19:16so the two things that we encourage them to do for eye-hand coordination
19:19and all of that stuff is table tennis on the dining table.
19:22Right.
19:23And they have fun with that.
19:24I'm awful.
19:25I try to play with them, and they're like, please.
19:27And also just a racket and a ball and just kind of bouncing it around,
19:31find a wall, you know, just there's so much.
19:35But I think the messaging is that we have to do it for them.
19:39Yes.
19:40And that's what we need to change.
19:41Yes.
19:42Absolutely.
19:43Devika, I know that you're so busy, and I know you have your kids,
19:46and you need to go back to them, and, you know,
19:48you have the parent job to do after we're done.
19:50But before we go, I just want you to say, like, just general advice.
19:55Parents, even to kids, I mean, you do deal with a lot of kids in schools,
20:01just general advice when it comes to tech,
20:04when it comes to creating human connections, just, yeah,
20:09how to enhance it overall.
20:11Yeah.
20:12No advice for the children.
20:13It's all on us.
20:14Okay.
20:15It's all on us.
20:16As educators and as parents, we have to figure out ways,
20:19and I think the first one would be self-care.
20:22We cannot give from an empty cup.
20:24We need the oxygen mask on us first,
20:26and sometimes that means talking it out with friends and teachers
20:30and schools and professionals and just saying,
20:32what do you think about this?
20:33You know, this is something that I'm just to consult.
20:35I'm consulting with people all the time.
20:37Hey, what do you think about this?
20:38What do you think about that?
20:39And just having conversations around how was that for you?
20:42I think this works for me.
20:44And that self-care piece, there's nothing that can replace that, right?
20:49And just keeping stress levels in check, taking care of your body,
20:53taking care of your mind, breathing.
20:58I feel the difference in my day and in my mood when I've done my sort
21:02of morning breath work and when I haven't, you know, and that just,
21:07things like that, just that mind-body connection,
21:09paying attention to it I think is so, so, so critical.
21:12And I also think we're at a time now where maybe we need to do less
21:17and just kind of slow things down a little bit.
21:21And in terms of advice, I'd say just, you know, if you're running at a 10,
21:26try and jog a little bit, try and bring it down to a 7 or an 8
21:31because when you're running so fast you don't see the scenery,
21:33you don't see what's going on, and then it's just a blur.
21:38The other thing that's very practical, but I say go back
21:41and look at the pictures on your phone
21:43because that's the other thing that we don't often do.
21:45There's memories and there's experiences that we have,
21:49but we store them away and we don't always relive them
21:53and think about them, right?
21:55So, of course, we need to be focused on the present
21:57and the future and all of those things.
21:59But the connection that we make from going back in time,
22:02even if it's just momentarily, and spend time with the family,
22:05looking at pictures.
22:07So sometimes that's actually an activity that we do.
22:09I just kind of screen share on the TV and just say,
22:13look at that picture, look at that.
22:15That's nice.
22:16Back to school from five years ago and the kids will go,
22:19oh, my God, I look like a baby.
22:21But, yeah, you were a baby.
22:22You still are a baby.
22:23Just going back and revisiting memories I think is important
22:28because then that helps to crystallize the value
22:33that you want to keep going,
22:35that you want to push forward with.
22:37I love that. I love that.
22:38You know we've hit rock bottom
22:39when you have to remind people to breathe.
22:41Yeah.
22:42I think just focus on your breath.
22:43I think that's just, it's an eye opener.
22:46I mean, as you said, when you're running at a 10
22:49and you're just focusing on the run
22:52but ignoring everything beautiful around you,
22:54I mean, who's really winning?
22:56I mean, it's not a race.
22:57Absolutely.
22:58Absolutely.
22:59Thank you, Devika, so much.
23:00Thank you, Maria.