Hazel Leonard, Founder of The Prepared Pineapple and Fertility Educator, joins Maria Botros on the Tell Me Why podcast to explain what the egg-freezing procedure entails.
Having your eggs frozen is like a 'mini' IVF because it involves the first half of an IVF cycle, says Hazel
Hazel: The number of eggs extracted varies, but it's not always about quantity, quality is very important
Conceiving is a triangle, and each point of the triangle needs to be aligned for conception to happen, says Hazel
Hazel: Women seldom think about what comes after the egg-freezing phase
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#UAEnews #podcast #IVF
Having your eggs frozen is like a 'mini' IVF because it involves the first half of an IVF cycle, says Hazel
Hazel: The number of eggs extracted varies, but it's not always about quantity, quality is very important
Conceiving is a triangle, and each point of the triangle needs to be aligned for conception to happen, says Hazel
Hazel: Women seldom think about what comes after the egg-freezing phase
See more videos at https://gulfnews.com/videos
Read more Gulf News stories here: https://bit.ly/2HLJ2km
Subscribe to Gulf News on YouTube and watch more of our videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/GulfNewsTV
#UAEnews #podcast #IVF
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NewsTranscript
00:00I often hear people are surprised that it's actually a mini IVF, having your eggs frozen
00:06is the first half of an IVF cycle.
00:10So it's not a case of, I'm going to pop along to the clinic tomorrow and have my eggs frozen.
00:15You embark on the stages of the process and that can begin with something, sometimes doctors
00:23will do something called downregulation where they shut your ovaries off, maybe for a couple
00:28of weeks, it's a bit like a stimulated menopause.
00:37I think we spoke about this briefly as well recently was, let's say I'm a 35 year old
00:43woman, I still haven't met my life partner and I feel like I want, when I do, I'd want
00:48to have kids.
00:49So it's a way of securing that privilege of having a child later on.
00:57Okay, so that's the law.
01:00So then what is the procedure like, what does it involve and what are some of the, I want
01:05to say the psychological factors attached to it because it's not an easy procedure and
01:12a lot of people don't know that, I think.
01:14And that's a great question.
01:16One of the things that I often hear, people are surprised that it's actually a mini IVF,
01:24having your eggs frozen is the first half of an IVF cycle.
01:28So it's not a case of, I'm going to pop along to the clinic tomorrow and have my eggs frozen.
01:34You embark on the stages of the process and that can begin with something, sometimes doctors
01:42will do something called downregulation where they shut your ovaries off, maybe for a couple
01:46of weeks, it's a bit like a stimulated menopause.
01:52Those cases are normally if somebody has endometriosis or they have underlying health conditions
01:57and they want to try and improve the number and the quality of the eggs.
02:02If you are quite healthy and you've had no concerns, they might just start at stage two,
02:07which would be follicle stimulation.
02:11So every month our body naturally releases something called FSH, which is follicle stimulating
02:17hormone and that makes a couple of our follicles grow.
02:22Now if we're not having medication, by the time we come to ovulation, you'll release
02:26one, maybe two eggs, which is how we get non-identical twins, but most people release one egg.
02:33With IVF or with the follicle stimulating injections, so this is where we get the injection
02:37part that you see pictures of IVF and women injecting themselves, you inject yourself
02:42daily for, it's normally between 10 and 14 days approximately, and you have regular ultrasounds.
02:48So what your doctor will do is look at the number of follicles on your ovaries and how
02:52they're growing.
02:54And they'll get bigger and bigger and bigger and the doctor in the clinic will adjust your
02:59medication depending on how many follicles you have and how you're responding.
03:04And then you get to the third step, which is something called a trigger shot.
03:08So you go in, you have the ultrasound and your doctor says, yes, you have a number of
03:13follicles, they're all looking a really good size.
03:16So let's trigger their maturation, so the final stage of the maturation process.
03:21So you have this injection at a very specific time, and then 36 hours later, you go into
03:28the clinic, you're heavily sedated or you have an anesthetic, and then your eggs are
03:34removed.
03:35And that's done by inserting a needle through the vaginal wall into the ovaries and they
03:42remove the fluid from each follicle.
03:45It's then given to the embryologist, the embryologist will clear out the fluids and count how many
03:51eggs you have.
03:54The number of eggs varies, it really, you know, it's so, it changes, but it's an average
04:0110 to 15.
04:04It's not always about quantity, quality is very important as well.
04:09Some women have a lot more, some women have less, but ultimately, those eggs will then
04:15be frozen.
04:16Right.
04:17Okay.
04:18And the validity of this, these eggs, does it vary?
04:22Or is it like standard, like when you freeze them, how long do you have until you have
04:26to use them?
04:27Is that even a question?
04:28Yeah.
04:29I'm actually curious.
04:30So what was it?
04:31What's the, um, I think, I think it was last year, an embryo was defrosted that was maybe,
04:39I think 40 years old.
04:41Now I'm going to have to go back and have a look at this.
04:43Oh my goodness.
04:44Okay.
04:45But it was an old enough embryo and it's absolutely fine, resulted in a pregnancy.
04:50Unbelievable.
04:51Oh, that's fantastic.
04:52I never knew that.
04:53I thought it was like a five to 10 years or whatever.
04:57Once they're frozen, they're frozen for however long.
05:01You have to renew the freezing.
05:02So you have to pay normally annually to keep eggs and embryos frozen.
05:08And depending on the country you're in, the laws vary.
05:12I think initially in the UAE it was five years and then you just apply and they extend it
05:17for you.
05:18Extend it for you.
05:19Okay.
05:20Okay.
05:21Um, so yeah, there's not really, cause it's so new.
05:23Oh wow.
05:24Oh wow.
05:25That fertility treatment is only really, I think it's about 45 years old.
05:28Oh, okay.
05:29Yeah.
05:31It's not that old.
05:32Oh wow.
05:33Yeah.
05:34I think that's where my confusion might've come in was reading that, you know, you have
05:36to renew it every, every five years.
05:38And I thought maybe that's like how long it stays valid, but I never knew that it could
05:43stay for as long as.
05:44Yeah.
05:45Fascinating.
05:46And the law, I don't know, like laws in the UK originally were, you could only freeze
05:50it for a certain time period, but they've now extended that.
05:53So it is changing all the time.
05:55Wow.
05:56Fascinating.
05:57Okay.
05:59Um, do you, I don't know if you have these numbers, I'm not sure if these things have
06:04been released or if there's data collected, but do you know the success rate of these
06:09procedures?
06:10Like later on, women that have come back and, you know, actually use the eggs to have children.
06:15It's again, a very good question.
06:16Um, the thing that I would say before getting into those statistics is I often say that,
06:22that conceiving is, is a triangle.
06:24Okay.
06:25So every point of the triangle needs to be aligned for a conception to happen.
06:30All right.
06:31So firstly you have egg and egg quality and then you have sperm and then you have environment.
06:37So we're looking at the uterus, the uterine thickness.
06:40If one of these elements doesn't align, you're not going to conceive.
06:45So that all needs to happen first.
06:48Now when you, if you've frozen your eggs and let's say three years down the line, you meet
06:53the man of your dreams, you marry him and you say, we want to have a family.
06:57Now equally you may conceive spontaneously.
07:00So with, when I say fertility preservation, I don't always like that approach because
07:08it's like it's a guaranteed thing and it's not.
07:12I think freezing your eggs is a little bit like an insurance policy that may or may not
07:16pay out.
07:17Right.
07:18That, you know, it's not always guaranteed.
07:20But if we were to look at an average, say 33 year old, that's got 10 eggs frozen.
07:26When you defrost them, you expect approximately 80 to 90% to survive the thaw because they
07:34don't all survive the thaw.
07:35All right.
07:36So you could be left from 10, you could then have eight and then you've got to fertilize
07:41the remaining eight and out of that eight, maybe 70 to 80% will fertilize.
07:46So you might be left with say six fertilized eggs and then they need to make it to day
07:52five to be transferred.
07:54And in that process you can lose up to 40%.
07:57So out of those 10 eggs, you may, a very good number would be three embryos that are five
08:04days old.
08:05And that would be great because that gives you three separate attempts if you're having
08:09them transferred separately at a pregnancy.
08:13We know that on average it takes three embryo transfers to achieve a pregnancy.
08:19So a lot of people that go into IVF from start to finish don't get pregnant on the first
08:24try.
08:28So it's a risk, you know, there's no guarantee with it, but it does give you the possibility.
08:35And when you freeze your eggs, you're freezing them at the age you are now.
08:38So if you're 33 and you freeze your eggs and you use them when you're 39, your chances
08:44of conception are based on that of a 33 year old, not a 39 year old.
08:49Right.
08:50Yeah.
08:51That's very important to know because I think people confuse it.
08:53They think, oh, okay, I'm conceiving it as a 39 year old, but technically it's, and that's
08:58the whole point of egg freezing, I feel, I mean, that's essentially the idea behind it.
09:03Okay.
09:05Moving on to the, I want to say, I know that you did speak about it, but what are some
09:12of the psychological implications that happen post procedure, I guess?
09:19Is there any of that?
09:20Or during, maybe during the process?
09:24I think one element is the unknown.
09:27So a lot of people are really surprised by what I was just talking about, the fact that
09:34you could only end up with, you know, your eggs might not survive the thaw, or if you're
09:39doing IVF, you might only end up with one embryo.
09:42And that's a huge shock because you're like, well, I have all of these eggs and only this
09:47many have fertilized and this many have made it to this day.
09:51So psychologically it can, the pressure can feel huge because again, it's all on the woman
10:00because the process is happening to the woman.
10:01So you feel a lot of responsibility to produce enough eggs to produce a good quality.
10:06And then if you don't get a pregnancy out of it, you almost mourn the loss of that embryo
10:13because we always say pregnant until proven otherwise.
10:16So once you've had that embryo put in for two weeks until you get that positive pregnancy
10:22test or negative pregnancy test, or you might get your period before then, you are pregnant
10:28and it can feel like the loss because you envisage when your baby's going to be due,
10:36what you're going to be doing for the next nine months, how that's going to look.
10:39So grief plays a big part in it.
10:43Pressure plays a big part in it.
10:46Self blame plays a big part in it as well.
10:50Having, knowing all the information in advance does help because it's not such a shock.
10:56It's not such a surprise.
10:58If it doesn't go the way you want it to, but equally, you know, many people do have
11:04success stories out of it.
11:07Pregnancy, a lot of women I support as well through pregnancy, you, your goal is pregnancy.
11:13So throughout fertility treatment, it's pregnancy, pregnancy.
11:16And then when you get to it, you think everything's going to be fine.
11:20And then it's not because then you're like, well, I'm still in the danger zone.
11:25I'm going to lose this baby or I'm going to get to this point and there's going to
11:28be a problem.
11:30And then it can be very hard to have that pregnancy because you're always thinking something's
11:35going to go wrong because of how hard you fought to get there.
11:40For egg freezing, I think women are just like, I'm just going to do it now and I'll deal
11:45with it now.
11:46And then when it comes to using the eggs, they haven't really thought about that part.
11:51So they don't factor in where are they going to be financially, how are they going to pay
11:57for the other half of treatment.
11:59So thinking about all these things so that you don't have the stress and the pressure
12:03of when it comes to in five years time, if this hasn't happened, I want to do this with
12:08my eggs.
12:09Yes.
12:10You don't have to worry about, oh, now I need to transport them to Greece or Spain or wherever
12:15it is.
12:16Yeah.
12:17You know, so factoring in those things as well.
12:20It's interesting that you mentioned mourning the loss of the baby when you've had it done
12:28because you feel like, okay, I'm sort of envisioning my life with this baby, being pregnant for
12:36nine months.
12:37And I read an article recently, I think it was a first person account.
12:42This woman wrote her journey with trying to conceive and it was down to as simple as getting
12:49her period.
12:50And she, that was her mourning a loss because she had been trying for, you know, during
12:56her ovulation window and she thought, okay, this is it, this is it.
12:59And then once she got her period, it was as if she she's mourning a loss.
13:03And technically it's just, it didn't happen, but it's even as simple as that.
13:08So I can only imagine what it's like with a procedure, you know, as big as IVF or, you
13:13know, with egg freezing and then later on, you know.
13:17You've given me goose bumps talking about that because I've been in that exact same
13:21situation.
13:22I've been at work.
13:23I've got my period.
13:24I've burst into tits.
13:26Because every month is this cycle of hope and of this is going to be it.
13:32And this is the one.
13:33And then it's not the one.
13:34And then, yeah, it's just, it's tough, really tough.
13:38It's really tough.
13:39And, and as you said, more so on the woman, because the focus is always on the woman and
13:43you always, and us as women as well.
13:46We have a tendency to blame ourselves and we always go to that as a first instinct.
13:51So it's, it's, it's even like, it's sort of like innate, you know, and it's so easy to
13:58blame yourself.
13:59Unbelievable.
14:00Self-criticize.
14:01We're very good at that.
14:02Exactly.
14:03As women, we're very good at that.
14:04Okay, so we can go on and on.
14:07I just feel like we can always talk about this topic.
14:09No, no, don't apologize.
14:11I have so much to ask.
14:12But, you know, again, you're a very busy woman and I know that we're on a tight schedule,
14:17but I just wanted to ask, because you have so much knowledge, how can people find you?
14:21Like how can I come to Hazel and have like a one-on-one consultation?
14:27Do you have like seminars or do you have consultations?
14:29Like how does it work?
14:30So I do, I do a mixture.
14:32I founded the Prepared Pineapple.
14:34Okay.
14:35I like, why?
14:36So the pineapple is a symbol of fertility.
14:39Oh, is it really?
14:40Yeah.
14:41Oh, okay.
14:42Well, it's an old wives' tale, but it's bromelain is a blood, an anti-inflammatory, so that's
14:48in the pineapple.
14:49Pineapples, exactly.
14:50People say if you eat pineapple cores, it will help conception.
14:52So it's kind of become this symbol of fertility and preparation.
14:58That's what I do.
14:59I help to prepare people.
15:01I give them education.
15:02I give them empowerment.
15:03So my Instagram, my website is the Prepared Pineapple.
15:07I do one-to-one consultations and I also have an online platform with all the information
15:14that you can need if you are trying to conceive spontaneously, if you are going through IVF,
15:19if you are freezing your eggs.
15:22All the content is there, so you don't have to Google it and you can access that for as
15:27long as you need to.
15:28You can kind of watch the videos as you're going through the process, depending where
15:32you are, if you're having initial investigations or if you're about to start IVF or you want
15:37to track your cycle better and know more about ovulation.
15:41All of that information is there, so you can reach out to me through the website.
15:46That's fabulous.
15:47I mean, people don't have to depend on WebMD to get their answers when they get it from
15:52someone who actually has experience in that area or in that field.
15:57Okay, and my last question, last one, I promise.
16:01What's your advice, like just your advice for people who are either trying to conceive
16:06or worried about conceiving or their journey, their fertility, you know, journey as a whole?
16:12So I would say educate yourself.
16:15Make sure you're fully informed so that you can make informed decisions.
16:19Try not to feel pressured into anything, you know, especially with egg freezing and with
16:24IVF.
16:25There can be a lot of pressure.
16:26You can have an appointment and, you know, I spoke to a client the other day and she's
16:31like, we only had one consultation and they were like, you should just do this now, come
16:34back on your next period and we'll start the process.
16:37And they were like, I'm not ready, I don't want to.
16:40So be your own advocate because no one else is going to advocate for you.
16:45And the biggest thing I always say, wherever you are, is always trust your instincts.
16:52If you feel something isn't right and somebody dismisses you or says, don't worry about it,
16:59go and see someone else.
17:00If you're ready and you just want to do an IVF, then do one.
17:05But always trust your gut and what that tells you because it's very rarely wrong.
17:11There you have it.
17:12Educate yourself, trust your gut and visit the prepared pineapple to get more information.
17:18Hazel, thank you so much.
17:19It was lovely having you.
17:20We'd love to have you back.
17:21I mean, these topics are always, you know, bringing up other topics and there's always
17:26more to talk about.
17:27So we'd love to have you back.
17:28Thank you so much.
17:30It's been a pleasure.