„Der Gazastreifen gehört den Palästinensern und den Menschen, die dort leben“, sagte der spanische Außenminister José Manuel Albares in einem Exklusivinterview mit Euronews, nachdem US-Präsident Donald Trump kürzlich vorgeschlagen hatte, dass die Nachbarländer Palästinenser aufnehmen sollten.
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00:00The situation in Gaza is still tense, both for Palestinian civilians and Israeli hostages.
00:13For the Europe Conversation, I catch up with Spanish Foreign Affairs Minister Jose Manuel
00:17Alvarez, who says Gaza belongs to the Palestinians and they should remain there to rebuild it.
00:25Minister, thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.
00:29I want to start off with, I suppose, one of the more potentially optimistic foreign policy
00:34issues of the last year or so, and that is Syria, and it's potentially optimistic.
00:41What does Spain believe is the right thing to do in relation to sanctions relief for
00:47Syria, the new regime there, without ensuring that people, for example, who have committed
00:52terrible crimes don't go away unpunished?
00:56There is definitely a window of opportunities and, above all, a window of hope in Syria.
01:01Ten days ago I went there, I went to Damascus, and I met the new authorities.
01:07And I came with a clear idea from my conversation.
01:10First, they were ready to engage on all the points that I wanted to engage.
01:13I want an inclusive, peaceful future for Syria, guaranteeing sovereignty and territorial integrity
01:21and free of foreign interference.
01:24So Syria is undergoing right now a national dialogue conference, and a constitution must
01:30come out of that.
01:31What I want is a constitution with equal rights for every Syrian, whether it's a woman or
01:37a man, whether it belongs to an ethnic or religious minority.
01:41I had the chance to meet with women from the civil society and with representatives of
01:47the minorities.
01:49And doing that, saying that that's the way they want to engage with us, I'm favorable
01:54and I said it in the Foreign Affairs Council, to lift gradually the sanctions, very especially
02:00those that are directed to economic reconstruction and humanitarian aid.
02:04And we must engage heavily with humanitarian aid.
02:08Ninety percent of the Syrians live under the threshold of poverty, and 70 million of them
02:14are in risk of hunger.
02:15Okay, so how can you be so sure?
02:18I mean, this is a really strong point you're making, that you were given guarantees.
02:22Because I remember with the fall of Assad, a lot of women, they thought, well, if we
02:26have Jolani, HDS, who were close to al-Nusra Front, that women's lives are going to be
02:33under threat.
02:34And not only that, then you have much worse sectarianism.
02:36So what did they say that convinced you that they will be inclusive?
02:40First, the new authorities were ready to engage on those subjects and to answer me.
02:45And when I was asking new explanations, they were giving them to me.
02:50And the future that they describe, it's more or less the future.
02:55I think it's the best for all the Syrians.
02:58Secondly, I was able to have those meetings with women from civil society and with the
03:03leaders of the minorities without any problem.
03:06And they opened, they spoke very openly.
03:10What they were telling me is, please, engage yourself and the European Union with the new
03:15authorities.
03:18But engage with them and lift the sanctions.
03:22The sanctions harm us.
03:24They are killing us from hunger.
03:26So all those are the things that I have shared with my colleagues.
03:31And they have got the same idea from their trip to Damascus.
03:35I want to move on then to a much more pessimistic scene in Palestine, in Gaza, and the West
03:42Bank.
03:43Really catastrophic scenes in Gaza, starvation, the killing of children.
03:49We also heard Donald Trump saying Gaza should be wiped out.
03:53So what is the EU's perspective on this situation?
03:58I think all throughout this war, European Union, when we see the conclusions in the
04:04Council, has been in favour of a ceasefire, has been in favour of the two-state solution,
04:11has been in favour of the release of all hostages and the unimpeded access of humanitarian aid.
04:17We have to put in place all that.
04:19There is a humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza, clearly.
04:23And the people of Gaza must remain there.
04:25They must live there.
04:26So we must help them, first with humanitarian aid, in order to address their basic needs.
04:32Secondly, back in UNRWA, UNRWA is an indispensable organisation of the United Nations, not only
04:38for the people of Gaza, but also for the Palestinians that are refugees in different
04:42parts of the region.
04:44And thirdly, we must help with reconstruction.
04:47And then we must give political backing as soon as possible.
04:51Gaza and the West Bank are another very worrying situation, where we see violent settlers increasing
04:59the violence against Palestinians.
05:00It must be put under one single Palestinian authority.
05:04Because at the end, we all know what's the solution for the Middle East.
05:09A peaceful Palestine, living in good neighbourhood with a peaceful Israel.
05:15And we have to do everything to implement it.
05:17But Trump, let's go back to the language he's used.
05:20He's talking about wiping out Gaza, saying that it's a beautiful real estate on the sea.
05:27He also got rid of the sanctions, the small number of sanctions from the Biden administration
05:31against aggressive settlers.
05:33Once again, I can only speak on behalf of my government, the Spanish government, and
05:37also of what Europe does.
05:40Certainly, Gaza belongs to the Palestinians.
05:44And it's the people living in Gaza, the Palestinians living in Gaza, that must remain there.
05:48And we must help them to rebuild a new life.
05:54And of course, we must keep an eye on violent settlers that kill also innocent Palestinians
06:01in the West Bank.
06:03Israel's settlement is against international law.
06:06United Nations have condemned it many, many times.
06:10And once again, if Europe doesn't back international law and the UN, then we are lost.
06:15We are among those that founded those principles in the United Nations.
06:20So we will do as much as possible for a peaceful future for the Palestinians in a Palestinian state.
06:28That's why we recognized Palestine in last May, together with Slovenia, with Ireland
06:33and with Norway.
06:35And that's why also we think that this is the best for everyone, including the people
06:41of Israel and their own security.
06:44What do you think of the trend, let's say, of Donald Trump so far?
06:47Again, Palestine, Gaza should be wiped out, Canada should become the 51st state, demanding
06:54to take over Greenland.
06:58There are two things.
06:59One, I think we are spending too much time about what someone else says or thinks.
07:04What's really important for me is what we are going to do, how united Europeans we are
07:10going to be, how united we are going to be around our values.
07:15And our values are very clear.
07:18Equal sovereignty of states, territorial integrity, searching for peace.
07:25War cannot be a way of settling disputes among states.
07:28All those are principles that we have created ourselves and that we must back.
07:33So let's not talk or think so much about what someone else, we have no control on what
07:40other presidents of other countries say or will do.
07:44But we can decide what we will do.
07:47Does Greenland have cover from the EU's perspective because it is an autonomous part of Denmark?
07:53For me, Greenland is part of the territorial integrity of Denmark, which is a member of
07:58the European Union.
07:59And also NATO?
08:02It's a part of the territorial integrity of Denmark to all purposes.
08:07Another piece, of course, is NATO and before Trump became president, everybody was concerned
08:12about the impact he would have on NATO, whether he would remove the United States from it,
08:17whether collective security was going to be as strong.
08:20He has singled out Spain because Spain hasn't met the 2% spending of GDP yet.
08:26And how will you respond to that?
08:28Because he's not only saying 2%, I mean, he's saying that's a floor, 5% is actually what
08:32he wants now.
08:33There are several things.
08:35First, there are 10 countries that are members of NATO that haven't reached the 2%.
08:41And each country has the right to think that the threshold should be X or Y.
08:47But that's the opinion of one country.
08:49The opinion of the United States is a very important opinion for me.
08:52It's a very important ally.
08:54But the decision about the spending in NATO or whatever other decision around NATO, we
09:00take it together, all the members in the Atlantic Council.
09:05And it's okay to look at the percentage of the defense expenditure, but that's not the
09:10only thing we should look, to see the engagement with what's really important.
09:15And it's not only the finance, but it's the commitment with the Euro-Atlantic security.
09:21We should look at absolute figures, and the absolute figures say that Spain is the eighth
09:27net contributor to the defense within NATO, if we don't look at the percentage, but the
09:32real actual money that we are spending.
09:35But do you think that you will be able to still increase it to make this at least over
09:392% benchmark?
09:40Because it's obviously something that he's quite particular about.
09:45We have been increasing in the last year our defense expenditure, and we have made
09:49very clear that in 2029 we will be at 2%.
09:54It's our issue, but it's also the issue of nine other NATO members.
09:59The problem is that it hinges, Ukraine's support from the United States sort of hinges on NATO
10:05member states paying their dues.
10:08We are among the countries that have been more supportive of Ukraine from all point
10:13of view, humanitarian, political and diplomatic, and also providing equipment, military equipment
10:21to Ukraine for the defense of its sovereignty.
10:24In relation to Ukraine, Vladimir Zelensky is obviously saying that security guarantees
10:29are vital in some way, whether that's membership of NATO, for there to be any reasonable just
10:36peace negotiations.
10:37Because obviously we know if the war ends and there's a frozen conflict, Russia can
10:41just resume it at any point if Ukraine doesn't have security guarantees.
10:46What do you think they could look like?
10:47Do you support Ukrainian membership of NATO for at least the unoccupied territories?
10:54It's not a matter of what Spain thinks or not, it's what we have decided, that a long
10:57time ago we decided that the future of NATO one day should be with Ukraine, and the future
11:07of Ukraine should be in NATO.
11:09But at this moment there is not an accession request at the table that is being dealt with.
11:17We are talking about a country that is at war, that is very important.
11:20What we are doing is to give bilateral security guarantees.
11:25Spain signed with President Zelensky a security guarantee agreement.
11:33And meanwhile, what we must make sure is that Ukraine wins this war, because losing this
11:39war means that Ukraine will disappear.
11:43That's what is at stake.
11:45And therefore the European security would be threatened.
11:49Okay.
11:50Jose Manuel Alvarez, the Spanish foreign minister, thank you very much for joining us on the
11:53Europe Conversation.
11:54Thank you.