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00:00Hello, I'm Annette Young and welcome to the 51%er show about the women who are reshaping
00:15our world.
00:16In this special edition we're focusing on how Afghanistan, under the Taliban, has literally
00:22become hell on earth for women and girls.
00:25In a moment I'll be talking to Fawzia Khufi, a women's rights activist and former member
00:30of the Afghan parliament who's also survived several assassination attempts.
00:35But first, a group of Afghan women exiled in Paris are producing a TV broadcast for
00:41the thousands of women still living inside Afghanistan, offering a much-needed spark
00:47of hope.
00:48Our colleagues Stephanie Perez, Mahteza Baboudi and Raphael Duracell at Fronster Television
00:55went behind the scenes for this report.
00:59In the streets of Kabul there are men, the Taliban police, and very few women.
01:07Discreet shadows, veiled and masked.
01:11Those who still dare to go out alone and show their faces receive disapproving stares and
01:16sanctions from the morality police.
01:20Fifteen-year-old Mariam has been barred from school since the fundamentalist Islamists
01:25returned to power three years ago.
01:30Her future is confined within these four walls.
01:33She loved school and her friends.
01:36Now she tries to study at home.
01:38It's very painful not to go to school anymore.
01:44No one can live without education.
01:46It's the only way to achieve your dreams.
01:49I've lost hope.
01:52Mariam cries over her walled-in life.
01:55Her only connection to the world of schooling is the teacher from this televised program
02:00– lessons broadcast from France by Afghan women in exile.
02:08Since she's no longer allowed to attend school, this educational program is the only glimmer
02:12of hope she has left.
02:13I try to help her too.
02:15The hardest part is keeping her motivated so she can someday resume her studies and
02:19succeed.
02:26In the Paris office of this television station, a resistance has been organized against what
02:31the UN calls gender apartheid.
02:37At the helm, exiled Afghan journalists like Diba Akbani.
02:42She arrived two years ago in danger from hosting a show critical of the Taliban.
02:48In addition to lessons for younger viewers, she hosts a psychological support program
02:53that takes calls from listeners in Kabul.
02:56I was the only one working in my family.
02:58Since I've been banned, I feel sad.
03:00I've lost interest in everything.
03:02Psychologists try to help, live from Afghanistan.
03:08It's important to accept this sadness.
03:10You have the right to feel sad.
03:13Acceptance doesn't mean giving up.
03:14It's only after accepting it that we can look for ways to cope.
03:18We're getting more and more questions about suicide.
03:21These women, silenced, cut off from social life or forcibly married, can't handle the
03:25pressure anymore.
03:26They think the only solution is to end their lives.
03:30For Hamida Aman, Begum TV's Swiss Afghan founder, every day she can share information is a small
03:37victory.
03:38This journalist, who divides her time between Paris and Kabul, has made defending Afghan
03:43women her mission.
03:47It's crucial to have this satellite TV channel broadcasting from Paris because if they silence
03:52us in Afghanistan, we have the ability to speak even louder and more forcefully from
03:57Paris.
03:58Satellite TV gives us that freedom.
04:03For men on the team, also exiled journalists and technicians, it's a victory against the
04:08prohibition of gender mixing in newsrooms.
04:13By working here with women, we resist.
04:17We show that we have no problem living together, that we all have the same rights, that we
04:21can work equally.
04:23On the streets of Paris, without mandatory veils, wearing makeup, laughing, they can
04:30savor this hard-won freedom.
04:33But they know that back in Kabul, talking among women in public spaces is no longer
04:38allowed.
04:40They know their journalist colleagues are living on borrowed time.
04:44In the Afghan capital, we meet Hamida Aman again at Radio Begum, which she also founded.
04:51Made by and for women, this radio network is the last island of free expression they
04:55have left.
04:57And their programs are under strict Taliban surveillance.
05:02Aman is skilled in compromising with the Taliban, and has so far managed to save her
05:06radio station.
05:08But room to maneuver is becoming increasingly narrow.
05:13Protecting Radio Begum, or similar radio channels, means protecting this free speech space that
05:18women have, the only small space of expression they have left.
05:22And we must fight.
05:23I'm here to fight, to defend this achievement, no matter the cost.
05:28How are they going to fight for women's voices in Afghanistan when the Taliban no longer
05:33wants them heard?
05:36A group of courageous women.
05:38And watching that report with me in the studio is Fawzia Kofi, a former Afghan MP, women's
05:43rights activist and author, who herself was forced to flee Kabul when the Taliban regained
05:48power in 2021.
05:50Fawzia, thank you so much again for coming in.
05:53Thank you, Annette, for having me.
05:55It seems not a day goes past without the Taliban imposing yet another harsh restriction
06:01on women and girls, the most recent one being blocking any window in any building where
06:07somebody can see a woman inside.
06:10In your opinion, what is the end game here for the Taliban?
06:14Because it seems like it's misogyny on steroids.
06:17Absolutely.
06:18I don't think there is anything left for the Taliban to ban on women because they have
06:24gone to the extreme.
06:26Probably the last thing they would say to the women who live in Afghanistan, 18 million
06:30plus, is you stop breathing because there is a lack of oxygen.
06:34And as you very well explained it, it's a hell on earth for women.
06:40And this is happening in a time that Afghanistan has progressed so much.
06:44And women knew what does it mean to live in liberty, to go to school, to be able to be
06:50presenter, anchor, journalist, MP, you know, in the government officials.
06:55They have experienced that.
06:57From that to come all of a sudden overnight, everything change and your dreams like fall
07:03like, you know, a sandcastle in front of you.
07:07And then you are again pushed to the corner of your homes for your gender.
07:12It is not only an apartheid.
07:15I think it's a crimes against humanity.
07:17And the Taliban announced a full-fledged war against women because they are afraid
07:21of educated women.
07:23The UN Secretary General António Guterres has described the situation in Afghanistan
07:29as systemic gender apartheid.
07:31Yet here we are, more than three years on, and it appears the international community
07:37is completely ineffectual.
07:39Why do you think that's the case?
07:41Well, in the international community, the UN, so many freedom-loving countries, they
07:48talk about what's happening with beautiful words, but words are not enough.
07:53We understand that, you know, so many conflicts around the world, starting from Ukraine, Gaza,
07:58Palestine, Israel, Sudan, many other parts of the world has taken over the priorities,
08:05the headline of the media.
08:07But as this is happening, as the media focus has shifted, the Taliban have become even
08:12more and more repressive.
08:14You know, over the past six months, for instance, they have issued a law that will prohibit
08:18women – 135 articles.
08:21Most of them is about suppressing women.
08:23So they have kind of legalized it in their own way, putting it on paper, to the extent
08:28that they ban women from going to nursing classes.
08:31Now, in five years' time, probably maternal mortality and infant mortality in Afghanistan
08:36will rise again, because Afghanistan was already the worst place to be a mother or
08:41a child.
08:42It has impacted our economy $3 billion every year for the fact that women are not in the
08:47job market.
08:48So it's not even about women's human rights.
08:51It's about our economy.
08:52It's about the global security, because I think the Taliban have inspired a lot of military
08:58extremist groups all over the world, including in Europe.
09:01So we must collectively act.
09:03Words are not enough.
09:05We must codify gender apartheid and hold Taliban accountable.
09:09And even in the world of international cricket, you know, there are people who seem to be
09:14reluctant to impose boycotts.
09:17There are calls for the English men's team to boycott Afghanistan in February's champion
09:22trophies match between the two countries.
09:26It's a complete contrast, isn't it, to what we saw in the 1980s with those sporting boycotts
09:31against the apartheid regime in South Africa?
09:35Unfortunately, everything has become so politicized, right?
09:38So everything is about politics instead of about women.
09:41So I wonder, for instance, if the same thing that happened in South Africa, which was regarded
09:45as apartheid, if this happened with another group of men or, you know, other than women
09:51in anywhere in the world, will the world still watch and prioritize politics over the principles
09:58of equality?
09:59But in Afghanistan, that's what's happening.
10:02Everything else is priority.
10:04Just women are not priority.
10:05And you know, I think as a woman, we have to really collectively stand against this
10:10because this is happening in 21st century and it's happening in front of our eyes.
10:15Three generation, three years that people of Afghanistan, that woman have lost everything.
10:21However, you were one of four women back in 2019 and 2020 who took part in talks with
10:28the Taliban.
10:30At the time, you said that you believe Taliban 2.0 would be different, that they wouldn't
10:35go ahead and impose draconian laws like we're witnessing now.
10:40Was that naivety on your part?
10:42I never said the Taliban, there are two Taliban 2.0.
10:47However, I said from what I hear from the Taliban in the negotiation, because I was
10:52the first woman to talk with them, from what the Taliban said during on the record talks
10:59and from their statements, they say that women can become ministers.
11:03They can get PhD.
11:05They can be in business.
11:07The only thing women cannot do in an Islamic state from Taliban's definition, which said
11:11on the record in Moscow, in Doha, was that the Taliban, that woman cannot be president
11:16of an Islamic state or an Islamic government or judge, which of course, I don't agree with
11:23that as well.
11:24But I was silent because it was a conference, right?
11:26So I quoted them then.
11:29Taliban 2.0 was a narrative that was promoted by some Western diplomats, unfortunately.
11:36And they still want to promote that narrative that there are some Taliban who actually changed.
11:40I want to know where are the Taliban, because during the negotiation, Taliban said something
11:44to us, to my face, to the other woman, which they never actually kept that promise.
11:50So they were actually lying.
11:51They were never genuine.
11:53They were lying to get that sign, deal, agreement signed with the United States.
11:58Now I think the United States should hold them accountable for what they were saying
12:01during negotiation.
12:03Where are the voices of outrage from the Muslim world?
12:08This is my question.
12:09This is my question as well, because the Taliban, unfortunately, demonstrate and represent a
12:15complete different picture of Islam, which can create Islamophobia.
12:20So I think it's the responsibility of the OIC, the Organization of Islamic Conference,
12:25the Muslim League, the majority of Muslim countries.
12:27Yes, there are some statements coming up, but I think they need to really challenge
12:31that narrative, because how can under the name of the same religion that promote education,
12:36you ban a generation from education, right?
12:40I think if they don't really challenge Taliban narrative, these kind of small groups exist
12:44in any country.
12:45It's in North Africa, it now is in Libya, it is in Yemen, it's in any other country.
12:51And they are empowered and inspired by Taliban.
12:54So they can challenge the existing structure of the Muslim world as well.
12:59And they want to be like Taliban, regarded as a victorious force, according to Taliban's
13:04narrative.
13:05So I think it's time for the Muslim world to meaningfully challenge the Taliban's narrative.
13:09This must be beyond frustrating for you.
13:13I mean, you've already experienced life under Taliban during their first regime.
13:18However, I want to ask you, is it simply down to making gender apartheid international law
13:26that will end this situation?
13:28I mean, what is it going to take?
13:31I think it takes a combination of many efforts.
13:34First, yes, codifying gender apartheid and holding Taliban accountable before the international
13:39rule and order, stopping the money that goes directly to the Taliban, holding them accountable
13:45for the political process they have committed in the Doha agreement, a combination of all.
13:49And giving space for the women, giving space for political opposition.
13:53Because you know, three years after the collapse, we don't even have an office for political
13:58or women groups.
13:59Everybody talks about women's rights, but no meaningful steps.
14:02So a combination of all efforts.
14:04And you've said before that your bags are already packed.
14:08You're ready to go back to Kabul.
14:10Do you think that's going to happen soon or in your lifetime even?
14:15I am hoping definitely.
14:17And I'm struggling for that.
14:19That's my strife.
14:20All my efforts are to make Afghanistan hopefully once again the country for everyone, where
14:26women, men, ethnic groups, religious groups live in harmony and peace.
14:30This is in Afghanistan.
14:31We want to have the legacy.
14:32And that's why I negotiated with the Taliban.
14:34So yes, Taliban will not last.
14:35That's for sure.
14:36Fauzia Kulfi, it's been a great pleasure speaking to you.
14:40Thank you so much for coming into the studio.
14:42Thank you for having me.
14:43And it's great to see you.
14:45And that's it for this edition.
14:46So until our next show, bye for now.