En el Juzgado Civil 83 se lleva a cabo la disputa de custodia entre Wanda Nara y Mauro Icardi. Nara propone que Icardi visite a sus hijas en su casa de Santa Bárbara bajo supervisión, mientras que Icardi busca revincularse también con los hijos varones de Nara. La situación refleja tensiones sobre la percepción de los menores como bienes en disputa. Durante la tensa audiencia que duró tres horas no hubo acuerdo y el juez deberá decidir cómo avanza la causa.
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00:00Good afternoon.
00:01Good afternoon.
00:02Civil Court 83, which is the court that is subrogating the one who has the cause, which is 106.
00:07On one side Wandanara and on the other side Mauro Icardi.
00:10No one can be lost in the proposals, extremely simple and extremely understandable.
00:15We are going to explain it easily so that it can be understood.
00:18On one side Wandanara says, I propose the following, I stay with the girls.
00:24When Mauro Icardi wants to see the girls, I leave them at my house in Santa Bárbara.
00:30I leave, my mother stays, someone from the court.
00:34Mauro comes to my house, he is all the time he wants.
00:38Once he finishes, he lets me know and I go back to my house.
00:41He sees the girls, we do not get together at any time.
00:44The condition that he puts then is that he sees the girls at his house,
00:48with the supervision of his people and that they do not go to Mauro's house.
00:52Exactly, at his house in Santa Bárbara.
00:54Wandanara's proposal is clearly understood.
00:56Very clear.
00:57Mauro Icardi's proposal, exactly the same, but at my house with my people.
01:03They come to live with me, when Wanda wants to see them, no problem.
01:08I leave, they stay with the people who are at my house.
01:11Wanda sees them all the time she wants, she leaves and I come back.
01:15Two proposals, they told me on both sides, logical, we see them.
01:19Now, they did not agree, because Wanda says in my house,
01:23Mauro Icardi says no, in mine.
01:25The judge's decision, for now there is not.
01:28Therefore, Wandanara continues with the daughters and will not deliver them.
01:33Deliver, I say return.
01:35We always use that ugly verb that is to deliver, to return.
01:38And we always make the same clarification.
01:40This was clarified to me by the parties and I also checked it with sources of justice,
01:45because you see that one does not want to be badly thought, but it may be that they lie to you.
01:49I went to justice, I checked it, I spoke to the judge, defense,
01:54I say, everyone said, these were the proposals.
01:57Proposals, logical, none of the two, sorry.
01:59Now we are going to do the legal look with Cesar Carosa.
02:02I want to add some information.
02:04Of course, what Candalaf says is exactly what happened in the audience, there is no doubt.
02:09The requests are these.
02:11They add to me from the inside that at some point, I suppose to mediate for this that there was no agreement of parts,
02:18the judge proposes the presence of a social assistant at the time of re-linking.
02:25Of course, they say, the addition is very good because they say,
02:30when he is, it is not that he stays in the care of Wanda's mother, no,
02:34that he sees a social assistant.
02:36As an impartial person, as a guarantor.
02:38Exactly.
02:39Because on both sides they are also afraid of him.
02:42Hey, come on, girls, come on, get in the car, let's go for a ride.
02:45He doesn't show up anymore.
02:47So, that there is someone from the court, which also for Daniela must be scary.
02:51You add a couple of things.
02:54With a woman or a man they don't know.
02:56But that's what they presented for the judge's decision.
02:59Therefore, the minors continue to take care of Wanda Nara.
03:02Now I add more information.
03:05Three and a half hours, as you said.
03:08How do these proposals come from both sides?
03:11With a judge who was already saying,
03:13watch out for Wanda Nara,
03:15that you are already breaking a judicial order
03:19that stipulates that the girls had to return with their father on the 15th,
03:24the 21st, we can discuss when,
03:26but once those dates are over, we start from that situation.
03:29So there is a first point where the judge says,
03:32there is something that is being disobeyed.
03:34Wanda says, the girls stay with me.
03:36In Wanda's defense, that team proposes this.
03:40And that's when these proposals start to appear.
03:43Let him come home whenever he wants,
03:45two hours a day, I retire,
03:47the possibility of the judge's assistant appears.
03:51And on the other hand they say, no, the girls have to come home.
03:54If you don't believe what's going on at home,
03:57I retire and you come to see them.
04:00He is not proposing, in this context, to keep the tenancy.
04:04It has to do with, the girls have to be with me today.
04:07What happens? They insist on the request for restitution with the public force.
04:12What is going to be defined in the course of today or on Monday?
04:16What's going to happen with this?
04:17The request is clear.
04:18The girls propose from Mauro Icardi's team,
04:21from Mauro Icardi's defense, that they have to return with him.
04:26The defense of minors, they tell me from the inside,
04:30is saying, we are on strike, I don't have this cause constantly.
04:35In a few days the official team comes.
04:37They haven't even been judged.
04:38They haven't even been judged.
04:39Five days ago.
04:40It's appalling.
04:41Of course.
04:42We define that the children are to be returned to the girls through the public force.
04:48It's a lot.
04:49It's a lot.
04:50Apart from this, sorry.
04:51It's an extreme situation.
04:54Extreme.
04:55In a criminal court, a civil court.
04:57Of sequels, of illegitimate deprivations of freedom.
05:00When a judge appears, you put your hand up.
05:03Here there are institutionalized minors or semi-institutionalized
05:06in a history in which they could not have been institutionalized.
05:09Absolutely.
05:10Mauro responds to this.
05:11Me neither.
05:12It's a scale more in child abuse.
05:14Sorry, I close the idea with this.
05:16This always happens in all criminal courts, civil courts,
05:18the judges and the prosecutors on duty,
05:20especially when they are media causes.
05:22What do they do? Let's do it.
05:23They are the measures of urgency.
05:24Let's do it, fools.
05:25If there is freedom at stake,
05:27if there is a cautionary tale that requires an urgency,
05:30but if it does not resolve.
05:32How much time is left for February?
05:34Of course.
05:35Well, but Mauro asked to be fired on this point.
05:38He asked for a definition.
05:40And what he says is,
05:41I never ask and never use the public force,
05:43but this is not the first time.
05:45One has already passed, two have already passed, three have already passed.
05:47This is the fourth non-compliance.
05:49I want the restitution of the girls.
05:51So between today and Monday something is going to happen.
05:54And then what I can tell you, when you are available,
05:56has to do with the publication of material and the exposure of the girls.
06:01There we go to that.
06:02But to close the topic of the audience,
06:04I stay with this that Tatiana said.
06:06Imagine what it would be like for those girls
06:08for the police to show up and take them away from the arms of the mother,
06:13to tear them from the arms of the mother.
06:15Of course, but out of the arms of the father.
06:18I'm thinking about what it means for those girls
06:20that the police take them away and take them to the house of the other father or mother.
06:25In this case, the father.
06:26I add information.
06:28They tell me that in the Icardi proposal,
06:31they asked that there not only be a re-link of Icardi with the girls,
06:36but also with the men.
06:38They tell me.
06:39And this comes from the closest environment of Icardi.
06:43They, I'm going to put it like this,
06:46they asked that the girls and the men be with Mauro at his house
06:51and that every day the social worker can go.
06:54The men?
06:55The men.
06:56And Icardi is also claiming the re-link with the children of Wanda,
07:02to whom he raised and to whom he kept until Maxi Lopez reappeared in his life.
07:08You are objectively saying this, Marina.
07:10Now, all the time here, the ghost of the children being private property smells.
07:14No, this is not.
07:15This dispute has to do with understanding the minors as goods.
07:19In the general context of the discussions,
07:21which are discussions about third parties,
07:23in the case of the two responsible adults, Icardi and Nara,
07:26it seems that all these, I repeat, are subjective objects
07:29that are disputed in the midst of contests
07:31that they have not been able to resolve,
07:33not even with all the material resources they have,
07:35but clearly not emotional,
07:37and that, as was well said here since this program began,
07:40they are at the mercy of institutional violence.
07:43This situation is institutional violence.
07:45The police...
07:46Proposed by their own parents.
07:48Exactly.
07:49No, because it is not that the police by their own,
07:52because it occurred to a delusional judge,
07:54are thinking of intervening.
07:56It is the parents who put the girls in this situation.
07:59I want to add two more data.
08:01On the one hand, what they tell me is that, well,
08:04Wanda denied the presence of the social worker,
08:07that Mauro did not, Wanda did.
08:09This is the information I have, we can correct it.
08:12They tell me that the key is that all Wanda's request
08:17is for Mauro not to be with Eugenia.
08:20That this idea of Wanda, that she comes to see them at home,
08:24I'm leaving, they stay with my mom, with the nanny,
08:26with my cousin, with my aunt, the social worker,
08:29whatever it was,
08:30is because Wanda explicitly stated
08:33that she does not want her daughters to have contact with Eugenia Suárez.
08:37That justifies the prohibition of approach.
08:39That's why she doesn't want them to go to Mauro and Carmen's house.
08:41That justifies a prohibition of approach, then.
08:44That she founds it and justifies it.
08:46But, sorry, this position is called, in general,
08:49in social sciences, adult-centrism.
08:51That is, we are...
08:52Exactly.
08:53In the argument, it is foreshadowing the rights of adults,
08:58and responsible adults in this case,
09:00of their daughters to the rights of minors.
09:02In what sense can a hierarchy be established
09:05between this set of rights, which are those of the adult in question,
09:09and this set of rights, which are those of the minors,
09:11when the minors in our country, fortunately,
09:13have been subject to rights for a long time,
09:16and that's how the Constitution and pre-existing pacts subscribe them.
09:19And they have a voice and a vote.
09:20And they have a voice and a vote, exactly.
09:21So, is it more important that they don't see the father's partner?
09:25Wait, wait.
09:26She doesn't propose this.
09:28This is what Mauro tells us.
09:30They tell me this, too.
09:32When you talk to Wanda,
09:34Wanda tells you that the girls don't want to be there,
09:36that the father doesn't do the things that they tell him.
09:38But it's an adult.
09:39Sorry, they're girls being spoken to by an adult.
09:42That's why what we're saying is that justice has to listen to the girls.
09:46Justice has to listen to the minors.
09:47Of course, exactly.
09:48But on the contrary, it's always the voices of the adults
09:51in representation of the minors.
09:52That's why, on the one hand, they talk about psychological self-kidnapping,
09:55on the other, Icardi,
09:56as if Wanda cut off their heads and gave them ideas,
09:59and on Wanda's side, they say parental alienation,
10:02which is more or less the same.
10:04And it's unacceptable.
10:06Parental alienation is really unacceptable.
10:09Because it's been proven that in Argentine legal history,
10:12Doctor, please, if not, you can contradict me,
10:14it was used, it was used permanently to mitigate,
10:17to try to cover up causes of sexual violence,
10:21often of heterosexual parents,
10:24abusers of children.
10:25Of course.
10:26It's been proven.
10:27Here, it's not the case because, thank God,
10:29there are no complaints from the courts.
10:32Here they refer to the issue of head washing.
10:35Can I clarify two issues?
10:37It seems to me that in the midst of all this
10:40tergiversation and the use that is made of minors
10:42in a horrible way,
10:44here, there is none.
10:46On the one hand, it's already beginning to be confused
10:48as if we put, not us,
10:50violence issues are attributed that do not exist,
10:53that could not be justified,
10:55to separate it from the father.
10:57Second, we are constantly talking about...
10:58We don't know if they exist.
10:59They are denounced.
11:00The judge fired them.
11:01Of course, but we are constantly talking about restitution
11:03and we are forgetting the first step of restitution,
11:06which is the non-compliance of the parenting regime
11:09that was left there...
11:11By Wanda.
11:12Of course, and nobody said anything.
11:14No, here we have said everything
11:16and the hearing was raised a lot, Tatiana.
11:18There it appears in the media that it is another argument
11:21that we are not talking about,
11:22but that the criminal justice of Tigre has endorsed it,
11:26which is that on the side of Wanda they say,
11:28well, be careful, because on the side of Mauro Icardi
11:31they have a babysitter who has a home exclusion
11:34and we made a complaint,
11:36an open file that is carried out by a Tigre prosecutor
11:41out of disobedience,
11:42because we believe that this babysitter,
11:44who supposedly mistreated the girls,
11:46was in the moment in which they were living.
11:49So I say, they also add that here
11:51as if to say, no, we restitute them,
11:54because there is a woman who is with them,
11:56who is a domestic employee, this famous Silvia,
11:58and who hurts the girls.
12:01They also add it as an argument.
12:03Of course.
12:04Well, in fact, you showed the document
12:06where the justice what it does is to extend
12:08the perimeter of Silvia,
12:09and what Wanda Nara raises is,
12:11well, if this woman has a restriction
12:13of access to my daughters,
12:14I cannot allow my daughters to go to that house.
12:16It is a bit the central argument of Nara.
12:18A restriction that is signed by a judge
12:20called Orlando Díaz,
12:22who is a Tigre criminal judge for 100 years.
12:25100 years.
12:26With all due respect,
12:27a long time ago,
12:28he even instructed,
12:30or actually instructed,
12:31in the case of Maradona, for example,
12:33to take into account.
12:34And the judge said,
12:35this woman cannot approach.
12:37He disobeyed that order.
12:38And we observe the need of adults,
12:40because look, there are babysitters,
12:42and recommended babysitters,
12:43and you want to have your children back.
12:45Of course.
12:46This is all, right?
12:47A provocation,
12:48a wet ear.
12:49Fascinating.
12:50And I'm going to turn to Fabian,
12:51because, well,
12:52you were at Wanda's birthday,
12:53at that famous birthday,
12:54where we spent a week
12:56analyzing the faces of the boys and girls
12:58because of the presence of Elegante.
13:00You were also at Francesca's birthday, right?
13:02No, not at Francesca's,
13:03but at Wanda's.
13:05And the boys were doing well.
13:06In fact, they all danced with Elegante,
13:08they sang with him.
13:09I mean, there was a very fluid relationship.
13:11There was no discomfort.
13:12In fact, there was Wanda's mother,
13:14Wanda's father,
13:15the sister,
13:16the new boyfriend.
13:17Everyone was there.
13:18I mean, it was a very daily situation.
13:21And the father appeared,
13:22in a way,
13:23in the conversation.
13:24You see, the boys sometimes say,
13:25oh no, because when I was with dad,
13:27such a thing.
13:28No, no, no, no.
13:29The boys are super polite.
13:30The two girls,
13:31who are the ones I saw the most,
13:33are very polite,
13:34quiet,
13:35respectful.
13:36Wanda has them very short,
13:37you know?
13:38It's not that they're like that.
13:39Yes, yes,
13:40he's kind of a sergeant of chivalry.
13:41He's super talented, super talented.
13:42Yes, yes,
13:43I've seen her
13:44with the older ones,
13:45with Valentino, basically.
13:46And with the girls too.
13:47Doing the homework,
13:48I don't know,
13:49I've shared several moments
13:50in which you see her
13:51in a very strict role
13:52as a mother.
13:53Yes.
13:54Can I tell you
13:55what happens with the exhibition?
13:56Yes,
13:57and now we're looking for
13:58Icardi's posts,
13:59because it's a kind of
14:00communication
14:01with invoices
14:02for the legal representation
14:03of Wanda Nara,
14:04and then he came back
14:05with Johnny Depp, poor guy.
14:06We have to stop
14:07quoting Johnny Depp
14:08for two years.
14:09Why does Mau Icardi
14:10compare himself
14:11with Johnny Depp?
14:12I hope someone
14:13ever manages to explain it to me.
14:14But now we're going
14:15to review the posts,
14:16which are from minutes ago,
14:17nothing more.
14:18Yes, Tati?
14:19Well, speaking of posts,
14:20there was the topic
14:21of the exhibition
14:22in today's hearing,
14:23with a judge
14:24who begs
14:25to stop
14:26with the exhibition
14:27of the situation
14:28of intimacy
14:29and girls,
14:30to which Mau Icardi
14:31responds,
14:3298% of the exhibition
14:33was not on my side.
14:34I only went out
14:35to answer,
14:36they talked about the hamburger,
14:37they leaked this,
14:38they leaked the other,
14:39we went out
14:40to answer,
14:41so Mau Icardi
14:42doesn't take charge,
14:43and you have a judge
14:44doing
14:45what we were
14:46thinking
14:47of,
14:48don't stop,
14:49lower the tone
14:50to this.
14:51Yes,
14:52in honor of the truth,
14:53we have to say,
14:54Martín doesn't let me lie,
14:55the last leaked audios,
14:56the last ones,
14:57where,
14:58of course,
14:59they are audios
15:00recorded by Icardi
15:01that appear
15:02at the foot
15:03of the complaint
15:04that Icardi presents
15:05against Wanda Nara,
15:06which are the audios
15:07where Wanda speaks badly
15:08about the children
15:09of China,
15:10where, of course.
15:11Yes, but that's the charge,
15:12he doesn't say
15:13that, he says,
15:14I answered this
15:15after this provocation,
15:16this provocation,
15:17we have the posts.
15:18Yes,
15:19if you agree,
15:20we review them,
15:21he says,
15:22I read here,
15:23how not serious
15:24that while we are
15:25in a hearing
15:26about minors,
15:27the lawyer
15:28on the other side
15:29is only in charge
15:30of talking
15:31to journalists,
15:32he says it
15:33by Pajarola.
15:34The focus,
15:35obviously,
15:36is on the media,
15:37more than on justice,
15:38and on fulfilling
15:39the judge's resolutions.
15:40We have as experience
15:41that the media
15:42didn't help much
15:43when two months ago
15:44they do
15:45National Network
15:46giving interviews
15:47and they had to
15:48get their lawyer
15:49to put
15:50a criminal
15:51in civil.
15:52Here, what does
15:53Icardi say?
15:54They had to
15:55run to Rosenfeld
15:56for mediation,
15:57a criminal
15:58ends up
15:59being civil
16:00as saying
16:01he does it
16:02like the monkey.
16:03He says,
16:04a criminal
16:05who in a family
16:06hearing
16:07talks about
16:08his defendant,
16:09here I give him
16:10the right,
16:11Icardi,
16:12if Pajarola
16:13came to say
16:14the defendant,
16:15it's not serious,
16:16right?
16:17Let me doubt
16:18and worry
16:19about the care
16:20of the minors
16:21and their representatives.
16:22Well,
16:23it's a little
16:24daring to say this.
16:25Icardi thinks
16:26his lawyers
16:27don't talk
16:28to journalists?
16:29Well,
16:30here we had
16:31Dr. Marco Vecchio.
16:32No, because
16:33this is written
16:34by Icardi.
16:35Of course.
16:36But well,
16:37I don't know
16:38who wrote it.
16:39I don't have
16:40evidence,
16:41but I don't have doubts.
16:42Exactly,
16:43but I don't have
16:44any proof.
16:45He doesn't have
16:46that vocabulary.
16:47It's legitimate,
16:48but it's legitimate.
16:49The lawyers
16:50of her
16:51also talk
16:52to journalists.
16:53All lawyers
16:54talk to
16:55journalists.
16:56Well,
16:57in fact,
16:58we have the two
16:59versions of
17:00today's hearing,
17:01Martín.
17:02I mean,
17:03I don't know
17:04what the problem
17:05is that
17:06lawyers
17:07talk to
17:08journalists.
17:09It's the same
17:10as someone
17:11getting angry
17:12that a minister
17:13of education
17:14is a journalist
17:15who says
17:16that you
17:17as a criminal
17:18don't understand
17:19anything about
17:20civil matters
17:21until you
17:22mispronounce the
17:23terminology.
17:24That's
17:25Marco Vecchio's
17:26letter.
17:27Sure, sure.
17:28Also the
17:29quotes
17:30journalists.
17:31The quotes
17:32journalist
17:33called me
17:34attention.
17:35But where
17:36does the pilgrim
17:37idea of
17:38Icardi
17:39is not a
17:40media man
17:41come from?
17:42minors. China Suarez, Wanda Nara and Icardi. They are three minors abusers
17:47to whom companies continue to pay them fortunes.
17:50The companies that pay them fortunes for the postings and for going to parties to
17:54burn silver, to three minors abusers, who take charge that they are financing
17:58three minors abusers. Because then we cry in our country, the child abuse,
18:03we cry to Lon, that we still don't know where he is. We believe that there is a sector of
18:06society that adopts minors. Here there is a whole society celebrating three
18:10minors abusers and companies subsidizing them.
18:13Yes, here we celebrate it and close with Icardi's last post. He says we are almost there,
18:18Johnny, tic tac, tic tac. Well, it refers to the legal dispute that Johnny Depp had with Suez
18:25and that he ended up barring him.
18:26Do you know what Mauro Pajarola calls him? Clown. Pajarola, clown, as Mauro calls him.
18:32How creative, how creative.
18:34To raise the debate. I imagine Johnny Depp in his Los Angeles mansion saying,
18:39Why are you looking for me?
18:40Can we analyze Johnny Depp for a second? Because, of course, Marina, you charged yourself.
18:43We have to close.
18:43No, it's okay. Then another day we will analyze it. Obviously it is ridiculous,
18:47from every point of view, and it is extravagant. But what does he want to tell us?
18:51He wants to feed that ...
18:53That he is going to win.
18:54No.
18:55As Depp won over Amber.
18:56And at the same time that gender-based violence complaints are false, that is not being wanted.
19:01He's saying he's going to win.
19:03I don't know if Nathan Fino, I think he's saying he's going to win.
19:05What you are proposing is very elaborate.
19:06Well, we're going to leave it here for now, because this is minute by minute.
19:12Information continues to arrive. Phones are exploding.