Last December, the Taiwan Space Agency (TASA) signed an MOU with its Polish counterpart, POLSA. The agreement allows for collaboration on satellite capabilities, telecommunications and Earth imaging.
In this episode of Zoom In Zoom Out, TaiwanPlus reporter Alec MacDonald sits down with Marcin Jaskula, a senior advisor at the Taiwan-Poland Chamber of Commerce. We first zoom in on Poland’s achievements in space tech, then zoom out on broader trends in Poland-Taiwan relations.
In this episode of Zoom In Zoom Out, TaiwanPlus reporter Alec MacDonald sits down with Marcin Jaskula, a senior advisor at the Taiwan-Poland Chamber of Commerce. We first zoom in on Poland’s achievements in space tech, then zoom out on broader trends in Poland-Taiwan relations.
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00:00Welcome to Zoom In Zoom Out, your global look at news from Taiwan. I'm Alec McDonald.
00:17Earlier in December, the Taiwan space agency TASA has signed an agreement with its Polish
00:22counterpart PULSA. The agreement will allow for space collaboration and satellite capabilities
00:29and telecommunication, as well as Earth imaging. Today, to further discuss Taiwan and Poland's
00:35collaborations in space technology and beyond, we're joined by Marcin Jaskula, a senior
00:40advisor at the Taiwan-Poland Chamber of Commerce. Marcin, thank you very much for joining us
00:45today. Thanks for having me, Alec. So let's zoom in on Poland for a second and talk a
00:50little bit about Poland's space program. What are some of your big achievements in
00:56the past year or two for Poland's space program? So last year has been very exciting for us
01:02with our first domestically developed satellite being launched into the orbit called Eagle
01:08Eye. Poland at the moment, because of the conflict in Ukraine, is looking very tightly
01:15on developing our indigenous satellite constellation, mostly SAR constellation for synthetic aperture
01:23radar. These types of satellites are used mostly for surveillance and for military purposes.
01:30As the Ukraine conflict has shown, these capabilities, they have to be in the hands of one's government.
01:38Can you talk a little bit about the Memorandum of Understanding, or MOU, between Taiwan's
01:43space agency and Poland's space agency? So the MOU between the Taiwanese space agency
01:49TASA and the Polish space agency POLSA lays the ground for fostering both countries' relationship
01:59in the space sector. It gives us and our companies a platform for engagement with very clearly
02:08predefined sectors and pillars of this cooperation, which is the space propulsion technologies
02:15for space launchers and satellites, the space situational awareness, and also the earth
02:22observation technologies and downstream services. There's already a mature ecosystem in Europe
02:29for some of these systems. So what is Poland looking to achieve outside of the continent?
02:38And why Taiwan? Why look outside the continent to Taiwan for such an agreement?
02:44Taiwan is a very active participant in all the European space agency programs currently,
02:49and our companies keep very, very busy in order to meet the requirements and the demand
02:55from the European space agency. However, obviously, these kinds of relationships can be moved
03:01outside of the scope of ESA as well. Taiwan, obviously, at the moment, is heavily investing
03:06in its space program. Taiwan lacks several capabilities that Poland can put on the table
03:13and help Taiwan to build a successful space program here.
03:17Can you share a little bit about the propulsion technology or other technologies that Taiwan
03:23and Poland are working to collaborate on?
03:26European companies are particularly focusing on green propulsion systems. Green meaning
03:33green fuels and green applications and reusable components. So at the moment, we can offer
03:41to Taiwan one of our best green fuels, which is the hydrogen peroxide, a very, very pure
03:49one.
03:50With propulsion systems come rockets and rocket launches. Taiwan currently does not have capabilities
03:57to launch rockets domestically. Is this something that TASA is hoping to provide in the next
04:03coming years?
04:04Poland and Taiwan are in the similar space at the moment when it comes to rocket technologies.
04:10They both do suborbital rockets. However, in Poland at the moment, we have reached a
04:18milestone recently with sending one of our suborbital rockets to 100 kilometers using
04:25nitrogen peroxide as a propellant. So this is something that TASA is looking at currently
04:32and we feel like next year might be the year of first tests being conducted here in Taiwan
04:39using our hydrogen peroxide.
04:42So this is a good opportunity to pivot to TASD 2024. It was an event held in early December
04:49and there is multiple exchanges between Poland, Taiwan, the UK and Taiwan and many, many businesses
04:56there. What was, can you reflect a little bit about that and share maybe some of the
05:02more exciting things that came out of TASD 2024?
05:05So I was a little bit disappointed that only Poland and Britain participated, you know,
05:10as part of the national pavilions. However, this conference, this trade show is only two
05:16years old and it grew a lot since last year because as far as I'm concerned, only 25 companies
05:23exhibited last year. This year was more than 90. So obviously the trend, the growing trend
05:30is there and we feel that this TASD can become the largest such exhibition, trade show and
05:38conference in the whole region in the very, very near future.
05:42One thing that has been discussed in Taiwan is developing telecommunications systems for
05:48in the incidents that undersea submarine cables are cut and Taiwan does not have ready communications
05:54outside of the island. Is this something that Poland can help Taiwan achieve?
06:00Taiwan, as you rightly mentioned, will have to build their own indigenous capabilities
06:04in terms of LEO satellites, lower orbit satellites for communication purposes. Obviously, Taiwanese
06:11government have decided not to rely on Starlink or other such systems for their connectivity
06:18purposes. So there's a program well underway for indigenous LEO satellite capabilities.
06:25So what we can offer to Taiwan at the moment is the propulsion systems for the correction
06:30of satellites already in the orbit. So this is something that we see a huge potential
06:34in working with Taiwan.
06:36Is Taiwan looking at launching their own satellites from Taiwan domestically? Is this something
06:42that will be discussed in the future?
06:44Indeed, Taiwan is working on their own launch program at the moment. Currently, there is
06:51a debate on which sites to choose for the space launching platform. And Taiwan is very
06:58actively pursuing these programs. It's good to have your own launch capabilities in case
07:04of a conflict scenario or in case of a failure of your allies to be able to help you when
07:12you really need them.
07:14Taiwan is known for developing many space components that already go into satellites,
07:18but these are smaller components that do not compose the entire propulsion systems
07:24or other systems, but they are still essential for putting satellites and rockets into space.
07:31How can Taiwan help Poland in this arena?
07:34Taiwan because of its very, very strong semiconductor industry is already a very, very important
07:40player in the entire supply chain of components. Taiwan supplies not only semiconductors for
07:47space applications, but also satellite components used in payload systems, communication modules,
07:54sensors, and so on and so forth. Taiwan is also very, very advanced in specialty materials,
08:00composites, and can significantly contribute to other countries' space programs in this
08:06domain. As I mentioned, sensors and components and these small things that make up the entire
08:13system or payload, yeah.
08:18Let's zoom out now. Can you describe the state of relations between Taiwan and Poland?
08:24All time high by far. We see a very, very good engagement between our nations. The foreign
08:33minister's recent visit to Poland is definitely a highlight of this growing and tightening
08:39relationship. Obviously, the war in Ukraine has caused us to work closely in terms of
08:46providing the humanitarian assistance to Ukraine. So Poland and Taiwan, Taiwan and
08:52Poland are absolutely like-minded partners. We share the same values. It's absolutely
08:58crucial for us to have a free society, a freedom of speech, freedom of assembly. Both of our
09:04democracies are very, very strong. During the first months of the pandemic, COVID-19
09:09pandemic, Taiwan has opened up their warehouses of critical gear and products, medical-related
09:15products to Poland. So we as Taipo, our Chamber of Commerce, have helped to organize
09:21shipments of medical supplies from Taiwan to Poland. To express our gratitude to Taiwan,
09:27Poland has donated 400,000 vaccines to Taiwan. We were the third biggest donor after Japan
09:33and the United States. So this was obviously very well received here in Taiwan.
09:40Can you talk a little bit about the shared values between Taiwan and Poland that have
09:45allowed them to become partners in providing humanitarian aid for Ukraine?
09:50As you know, Poland has played a very important role being a logistics hub for all the military
09:58and aid deliveries to Ukraine. All the planes and all the cargo ships and deliveries have
10:03to go through Poland. So then Polish authorities can send them to Ukraine because there's simply
10:09no other way of doing this at the moment. So Taiwan obviously has been very supportive
10:15with several donations being made to the Ukrainian cities, particularly in the cities that Taiwanese
10:22cities have had bilateral cooperation and relationship with. Taiwan also donated significant
10:30aid in terms of cash donations. Poland has played an active role as a middleman between
10:35Taiwan and Ukraine, and we hope to play this role in the future because one day the war
10:42will be over and Ukraine will have to be rebuilt. So I see a huge potential for also Taiwanese
10:47government, Taiwanese companies to participate in the rebuilding of Ukraine after the war.
10:53Looking to a slightly different area, what is the trade relationship right now between
10:57Taiwan and Poland? So this is something that we as the Chamber
11:02of Commerce are trying to improve because the trade imbalance is in favour of Taiwan.
11:09It's around 1 to 8 favouring Taiwan. Our biggest exports at the moment are machineries, chemicals
11:16and food products. It is our aim at this moment to promote the high-tech industries that Poland
11:25can offer to Taiwan. As the Chamber, we are particularly focusing on several key pillars,
11:31which is semiconductors, AI, space and defence, medtech, biotech and education. As you know,
11:41many Taiwanese students graduate from Polish medical school every year, dentists and doctors,
11:48and they come to Taiwan and practice medicine. So this is one of the long-standing cooperation
11:53fields that we have had with Taiwan. At the moment, because of our growing economy, we
11:59are a so-called tiger economy in Europe, and we feel like maybe Poland was not known
12:05to an average Taiwanese person as a high-tech country, but we are becoming one.
12:11There was discussion about a semiconductor plant potentially in Poland, a TSMC semiconductor
12:18fab in Poland. Is this something that the Chamber of Commerce would like to see in the future?
12:24We are currently engaged with several key players in the semiconductor industry about
12:30their potential investment plans in Poland. As far as I know, TSMC does not have a plan
12:37to build a fab in Poland yet. Their decision might change. At the moment, they have started
12:44construction of their fab in Dresden, Germany. So Poland's strategy is to become one of the
12:50three points in the triangle between Germany, Czech Republic and Poland. We would like to
12:56play a more important role in this industry. European Chips Act also plays a very, very
13:02critical role here. Europe is trying to lesser their dependency on semiconductors made in
13:09Asia, so there's been great investment made by the EU to attract these sort of projects
13:16into the European Union, and Poland, having such a fantastic location, is absolutely a
13:22place worth considering for a potential fab investment.
13:27For my final question, can you share a little bit about Poland's vision for artificial intelligence?
13:32We are playing a very, very important role in this AI revolution, and we feel like our
13:40companies and our scientists can definitely cooperate with their Taiwanese counterparts.
13:47And we, as a chamber, are actively focusing on this area of collaboration, and we will
13:55be bringing more and more delegations from Poland to Taiwan to foster partnerships in
14:01the AI domain. Marcin, thank you very much for joining us
14:04today and sharing your insights on our show. My pleasure. Thank you.
14:09This has been Zoom In Zoom Out. For more stories from Taiwan Plus News, you can follow
14:13us on social media. Thank you very much for watching, and we'll see you again next time.
14:39Bye-bye.