FourFourTwo sat down with Manchester City star, and 2024 Ballon d'Or winner Rodri to discuss how he reads the game and why he does what he does on the pitch. Speaking to Adam Clery, he explains what it's like when a defender 'inverts' into midfield, how he balances defence with attack, and why he might even end up as a striker one day...
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00:00Hello everybody, welcome to the 442 YouTube channel, and if you think you are more excited
00:14than I am today, you are wrong. We are joined by Rodri. Between us, four Premier League
00:21titles, one FA Cup, one Champions League, one European Championship, one Ballon d'Or,
00:26and one North East Under-15s Counties Cup 2003. We've done alright between us. First
00:32question, what does this mean to you? Congratulations first of all, but to win an honour like this
00:38at this stage of your career, how does that feel?
00:41Well, I mean, I cannot explain with words. It means a lot to me, my family, also my country.
00:49Not only because me, the players, as we said before, who didn't want it. But yeah, I think
00:56it's a consequence of the work hard and winning collectively with the team and the years
01:01we've had, the success of my team and the national team.
01:04We were just talking before about how it's seen as slightly unusual for a player in your
01:08position to win an award like that. Now obviously no two midfielders are ever really the same.
01:14Chris called you a defensive midfielder, you called yourself a holding midfielder. There's
01:17so many different ways of playing the role. What I'd love to know, this might be a really
01:21big question, but how do you see your game? What is Rodri to Rodri?
01:27What is Rodri to Rodri? Well, I think it depends, of course, on the team you play, but I think
01:35my role is very similar in my club and my national team. But I think you're kind of
01:40the guy who ensures that everything has to work. You don't have a specific thing to do,
01:48you just have lots of things to do. Maybe your role is different from one day to another
01:53in the sense that things change depending on the team you face. And you have to make
01:58sure the team works. It's about leadership, it's about managing, it's about understanding
02:04the game. And I think it's something I've been growing a lot all these years, yeah.
02:09I think it's interesting you said it varies from game to game, because whether it's for
02:12Man City or the national side, you're so critical to that first phase of play. But obviously
02:17that can be so different between oppositions. Some games will give you lots of space, some
02:21games will be very aggressive. How much of that is down to you to determine in the match?
02:26You basically make the call on the pitch, I'm going to take this position or this situation.
02:32I cannot tell you, it's just how you smell the game, how you feel when you find the spaces.
02:42Every game is different, and understanding that we have a way of playing and understanding
02:48that I'm in a team that is very tactical and everyone knows what to do. And in that way
02:53it's easier. But I, let's say, have a bigger role in that sense, in tactics. Maybe Phil
03:04is worried about being positioned here, but maybe after 20 minutes he's there. My work
03:11is to make Phil go there, because there is real space. And this is the way it works for
03:16a midfielder.
03:17You mentioned, I presume that's Phil Foden that you're referring to, you've had so many
03:21different partners in the midfield. There's been a real trend over the last two years
03:25of defenders now stepping up to join midfielders in there. We spoke to quite a few defenders
03:31about how they make that adaptation and how they adapt to the role, but I was kind of
03:33curious from the other side, is it different for you being a midfielder and having a defender
03:39in there? Do you have to adjust your game to know that's not maybe their natural position?
03:42I think it's more difficult to do what, for example, Stones have done, or Cancelo in the
03:48past, or Akanji sometimes when they play that role. I think when we move back as a centre-back,
03:56we're used to look 360 and be surrounded by players, and when you play centre-back you
04:02just have players on front. You have no worry about your back. And with the ball it's more
04:08chill. I speak with the centre-back and he's like, your job with the ball is so easy. Without
04:14the ball it's different. Without the ball it's so key, it's demanding, the position
04:19is very tricky. But I think that process is more easy in my way than their way.
04:25Do they agree with you when you tell them their jobs?
04:27I think so, yeah. I think they might because when they play midfielders they have to look
04:32360, play one-two touch, switch off, defend, attack. I think it's the most complete part
04:39in the field.
04:40Do you think that makes your job different when you're in there with them? Let's say
04:43you were in with a more natural midfielder, will you be looking out for them a little
04:46bit more, or will you just be trusting them to do their job?
04:50I trust them. Of course they will look at me when they play that role, and the same
04:58way I remember in the World Cup before I know I'm going to play there. As a centre-back
05:04I watch clips of centre-backs, how they behave, how they look at each other, the line, everything.
05:10You have to look at the people that really know that role.
05:15Not looking for specific names here, because I'm sure you couldn't give us them, but is
05:19there a specific kind of player you like to be in the middle with? If you're being joined
05:23by somebody, would you prefer it to be somebody, say, really athletic, who will cover the ground?
05:27Who is technically great, so you can trust them with the ball in a tight situation? Do
05:31you have a preferred kind of partner?
05:32Yes, of course. I would say the same. The best partner is the one that defends and helps
05:39you a lot, and is so good and tactical with the ball. Normally what you find is players
05:46that are very technical, they don't defend much, or not good at defending, and the opposite.
05:52I think the balance is for me the best. But if you ask me, that I'm a defensive midfielder,
05:58I normally want a guy that can help me when I'm not in the zone or whatever.
06:04Is there any specific part of your game that you really have had to work to develop? Because
06:08obviously you're getting to an age now where you'll never stop improving, you'll never
06:12stop wanting to develop, but you've come a long way in your journey as a footballer.
06:16What have been the areas that you've had to really work on, whether it's through coaching
06:19or just by yourself?
06:21I think one was very, very key. I remember my first year at City, I was a player that
06:31used to jump a lot, you know? Go forward. Sometimes it's good, but many of them it's
06:39not good because if they play you in your back, the team is like naked. You have to
06:45defend 70 metres behind. It's something I really, really improve on, that's identify
06:51when to go, when to stay. That role for me is the most important, the balance. That gives
06:56you the balance. In the moment you lose that position, that midfielder, you lose the heart
07:02of the team. And most of the goals, I don't know how the statistics, but most of the goals
07:08come in the central area. So if you're there, it's more difficult for them to find a way.
07:15Is that something a particular coach has worked on with you, or is that something you
07:17identified yourself that you needed to work on?
07:19No, no, no. With clips, with videos, you see you going to the side, why you go to the side,
07:28you just protect this, you know? It's very, very demanding. And by the time they saw I
07:35got it, they just started giving me that freedom. But until that, it was like the first year.
07:42Very strict.
07:43It might sound a really silly question, because we're sitting either side of the Ballon d'Or,
07:48but is there any part of your game right now you really do want to still improve? Anything
07:51you think that you'd like to refine that in the next year or two?
07:54Yeah, I think I have a massive, many parts of my game that can be improved. Many, many
08:03of them. Most of them in terms of the head sometimes, be more cold, not that passionate.
08:15Try to be a better leader every day, that role. And in terms of football, thinking on
08:21football, yeah, of course, 100%. The last step, for example, is something I paid a lot
08:28of attention to in the last years, to be more involved in goals, be more decisive in
08:34this sense. But maybe, I don't know, I control more when I'm tired or exhausted. Don't move
08:41that much, try to stay. Yeah, many things to improve, yeah.
08:46I think it's really interesting you talked about the mental side of it there, especially
08:49when you're attacking. With a player in your position, this is something I've always wondered
08:53about. If you're in the final third, so the responsibilities of the defence maybe aren't
08:57quite as pressing. How much of your brainpower goes towards helping with the attack and taking
09:03up a position where you could help, versus watching out for potentially the team losing
09:07the ball and being in the right position if that happens?
09:10That balance, what gives you, if you're good or not, because if you're too worried about
09:15counter-attacks, you don't help the team attacking. If you are too over-confident of attacking,
09:20you can be punished. It's trying to find the balance and being very safe. When the ball
09:25goes through you in those situations where all the players are in front of you, you have
09:29to be very safe. But at the same time, you cannot be lazy with the ball and be safe.
09:34You have to find the key pass, risky sometimes. It's a matter of identifying the moment.
09:41Is that something that you'll have to decide yourself in the moment, or is that something
09:44that's really coached?
09:45Yeah, no, it's something that's very difficult to coach. It's a matter of feeling. When you
09:52see the movement, when you see the line, when you see it's time to keep the ball, when it's
09:56time to accelerate, it's something they cannot teach you. It's something you can see in other
10:02players, that's true.
10:03I thought it was really interesting, Chris touched upon the goal he scored in the Champions
10:06League final. My perspective of that game from watching it was that it had quite a good
10:13handle on what you were going to do and they were quite well disciplined and making it
10:17very difficult. And it was you that popped up with the goal. Now watching it back, there's
10:22a huge, huge amount of space on the edge of that box. And I've always wondered, was that
10:26something you prepared for? Because it seems almost a deliberate rush of all the players
10:30to the near post to leave that space. Did you know that was going to happen or was that
10:34something you sensed?
10:35No, I didn't know that was going to happen. It's a matter of seconds. I remember following
10:40the game in that chance and the ball just appeared there. But I think I was one second
10:48earlier than everyone and I made two, three steps before.
10:51You had quite a lot of ground to get there.
10:54Because when Manu gives the ball, I think I'm behind him and he was very far from the
11:00central area. So, yeah, I think I remember I did like two, three steps because I felt
11:06that maybe something could happen there. But yeah, when I see the ball there, I was like...
11:10I was going to say, what was going through your head when you sort of... Because it must
11:14be a snap second decision. Because if you overcommit to that and you don't get there,
11:18that's a huge amount of trouble.
11:20I think this is something that I admire from the number nines. It's that little fraction
11:28of second when they are alone, but maybe the centre-back is looking at the ball and he's
11:33making one step and that's what makes him have the space. It's something I admire a
11:39lot because we don't have that feeling of where the ball is going to come. They are
11:42the best in that. But yeah, I remember that moment when the ball came to me. You have
11:47one, two seconds to think what to do with that ball. I always say that I first think
11:52to shoot strong the ball, but at the end I was like, no, you only have one. Just put
11:57it to the corner and yeah, definitely it was good.
11:59Does this mean we could see you getting a run as a centre-forward at some point?
12:03Imagine. Not with my speed, but more or less because now the way we play, most of the times
12:10we play in the central, in the frontal area. So sometimes we are number 10.
12:16How do you think your game will change over the next couple of years? Because you said
12:20before about how you want to work on the mental side of things. Do you think you'll become
12:22more, I don't want to say stationary, but be better?
12:26It's something I speak a lot with my friends and I ask them. I have a really confident
12:34opinion on what is going to behave and I think it's going to be very similar to handball.
12:39You know handball? They stay all over the area, just blocking. They don't try to go
12:46man-mark or try to stay there. And I think we saw it. In my opinion, it's a mess, but
12:53we see a lot now when the team feels that on paper it's maybe worse than the other.
13:00So defensive. And this makes maybe 11 players almost in the box. And I think that's the
13:09new football. Counter-attack, the team that is defending and the team that is trying to
13:15open them, very spread. I think this is how we see football in the next few years.
13:20I think we see that actually quite a lot in the big clashes between the big teams because
13:23obviously the attacking threat is so big. We see a lot of sort of, even from the very
13:28top teams in the Premier League, they'll go sort of quite with a compact mid-block against
13:32each other and it kind of makes certainly the centre of the pitch very difficult to
13:35play through and to play in. Do you think that's because we're going to see that pretty
13:38much constantly now?
13:39I think so. I think it's a big indicative that between two big teams you see when you
13:47defend, you defend very back. Because normally I punish you, I punish you. And maybe the
13:55game is more open. But now you're seeing that it doesn't matter if the level of the
14:00two teams are similar. When you defend, you go back. And when you attack, you spread.
14:05So I don't know.
14:07Cagey is the word we use for that. A bit sort of reluctant to go back. You very rarely
14:11now see sort of open basketball game, people call it.
14:14Yeah, definitely.
14:15I suppose that's actually a good way to analyse it. Trying to avoid a basketball game becomes
14:18a handful.
14:19That's why I enjoy most of the games we play against Liverpool. It's great because
14:25it's like, I don't care, I want to punish you. And we have the same feeling. I don't
14:29care, I want to punish you. And they are not conservative. They go with the mentality.
14:37And once you are in the pitch, you enjoy those moments. Because it's not, it's the same
14:42game every day.
14:43The crowd must be so different as well, yeah.
14:45One thing we always try and ask is, has there been a team in the last few years that you've
14:49played against that maybe people wouldn't have expected to be a huge challenge for either
14:53Spain or Manchester City, but who really surprised you with sort of how good they were and how
14:57intelligent their football was?
14:59Not surprised, but there are some teams that, well, you don't know or you know, but they
15:06are the worst for you. For example, Tottenham.
15:09Tottenham.
15:09For us. Especially when Kane was in it, and Son, and the other one, as Moura, whatever.
15:18Because they have the perfect way to play against us. And I remember that game in Tottenham's
15:26stadium was difficult. I never won it.
15:28I was going to say, which one?
15:29Last year, the first time. But it was like, why, why is it so tricky? And you cannot understand,
15:35but yeah, sometimes it's like this.
15:37Chris already asked you, I was going to leave this question off, but you've sort of touched
15:41upon a little bit. You said you wouldn't know, you don't want to plan too far ahead in terms
15:43of thinking about being a coach or a manager. It's clear that you think about this in the
15:48way that a coach or manager would. Is that really not something you're considering at
15:51this point? Have you got even like half an eye on doing it?
15:53Well, imagine right now?
15:56Not right now, but you've got to start somewhere.
15:58No, I don't know. I think what I see is, as a footballer, as a coach, you lose a lot of
16:06time in terms of travels and coaches and stuff. They have the same life of players without
16:14playing, you know, and this is something that makes me, you know, a bit... It's not because
16:18I don't like coaching, it's the circumstances of being a coach. So I don't know, maybe I
16:24retire, it's like I want to coach or maybe not, I don't know.
16:28Mordy, thank you so much for joining us.
16:29Thank you very much.
16:30Congratulations again.
16:30Thank you very much.
16:32Well, there you go. Actually, do you know what's really mad about that is I will go
16:37home for Christmas and both of my parents will still ask when I'm getting a real job.
16:42But anyway, obviously I wasn't going to make the actual Ballon d'Or winner sit there while
16:47I went through the whole, please like and subscribe to the channel stuff. So please
16:52like the video and subscribe to the channel.
16:54Because if you have watched us before, you'll have heard me say that when people subscribe
16:58and that number grows, we get to go and do loads of cool things. And that, that is the
17:03cool things I have been talking about. So if you are a subscriber already, you literally
17:08made that happen. Like genuinely, because of all of you lot, when we ring up the actual
17:13best football player in the world and say, would you like to come on the channel and
17:16do a little video? He says, yes, and not who are you? How did you get this number?
17:21Anyway, though, I digress. You can get me across all the social medias at Adam Cleary,
17:25I would dearly love to hear what you thought about that interview. And you can put it in
17:28the comment section down below, or you can tell me directly. And if you would like to
17:32share that video around, that is something that greases the wheels of content and may
17:37help us do something very cool like that in the future again. But also, if you'd like
17:40to hear more from Roger, then why not pick up the brand new awards issue of 442, in which
17:46he is not only the video interview, but he's our cover star as well. We did a whole other
17:50interview with him about Man City, about the Ballon d'Or, about all the stuff you'd expect
17:55normal people to ask him. It comes in this bag and is really, is that the cover? No,
18:00where is it? Really pretty. And you get this calendar too, apparently. Anyway, yes, that's
18:06it. That's the Roger interview. That's probably the greatest thing I've done in my entire career
18:11so far. Thank you very much for watching. Literally love every single one of you very dearly. Goodbye.