Former US national security adviser John Bolton says he's "very worried about the future in Ukraine" based on comments made by US President-elect Donald Trump before and since his win in November. Bolton spoke with DW's Washington bureau chief, Ines Pohl.
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00:00It's hard to prioritize in these times with so many new and old crises, but I would like
00:05to start with Ukraine, Mr. Bolton.
00:08President Zelensky has stated that he doesn't want to freeze the conflict to end the war
00:13and is not willing to give up territory, which is something Donald Trump, of course, seems
00:18to be willing to do.
00:20So how do you see the next few months unfolding?
00:23Well, I'm very worried about the future in Ukraine from what Trump has said during the
00:28campaign and after the election.
00:31But just what I know about his general attitude toward Ukraine, his general attitude toward
00:36Russia, Trump has now admitted that it's not going to work for him to get Zelensky and
00:44Putin in a room and solve it in 24 hours, which is amazing how these things happen after
00:49campaigns that he acknowledges the reality he probably knew beforehand.
00:54But I think what motivates Trump primarily at the moment is he wants this conflict behind
01:00him.
01:01He believes it's Biden's war.
01:04He said during the campaign it wouldn't have happened if he had been president, which is
01:08a statement that's neither provable nor disprovable, but he wants it over, which implies that he
01:15doesn't particularly care on what terms it adds.
01:18And I think that's bad news for Ukraine, too.
01:21And what do you expect him to do in his first couple of weeks regarding Ukraine?
01:26Well, I think he'll have a lot of priorities.
01:29The best news for Ukraine may be he's going to concentrate more on expelling illegal immigrants
01:33into the United States and doing a lot of other things that are more domestically oriented.
01:38But he's already named a special envoy for the negotiations he expects to see started
01:46fairly quickly.
01:47And I don't believe Trump has yet spoken to Vladimir Putin.
01:51At some point there will be a conversation.
01:54And I think if Trump says, Vladimir, you've got to come to the negotiating table, Putin
02:02will object and complain, but then he'll say, Donald, for you, I'll do it.
02:06Now, of course, it's the Putin's interest to get to the negotiating table if that then
02:11freezes the front lines and that becomes the new Ukrainian-Russian border.
02:16So I think Putin knows how to play with Trump.
02:19I think he knows how to flatter him.
02:22And if they have a conversation before Inauguration Day, that could start negotiations fairly
02:28quickly.
02:29And I'm just I'm worried if the U.S. departs from the strategy that's been pursued, which
02:35hasn't been effective, by the way, for a lot of reasons, but if it indicates weakened support
02:40for Ukraine, that Europe won't be far behind.
02:42And that's just bad news for Ukraine.
02:44It's, of course, all about security guarantees as well for Ukraine and President Zelensky.
02:50What do you expect Donald Trump to commit to?
02:53I'm very worried he won't commit to very much.
02:56And honestly, Ukraine had security guarantees from the United States, the United Kingdom
03:02and Russia in the Budapest Accords, which didn't do any good.
03:08So I'm not sure that security guarantees in the future are going to be any more effective
03:13for Ukraine than in the past.
03:15The only real answer is NATO membership.
03:17And I don't see that as a prospect.
03:19The real question of NATO membership is whether Trump keeps the U.S. in or pulls us out.
03:25And will he try to pull you out?
03:27He doesn't understand why the alliance benefits the United States.
03:31He thinks basically he sees NATO as this.
03:34We defend Europe.
03:36We don't get anything out of it.
03:37And Europe doesn't pay.
03:38So why are we in this alliance?
03:40That's what he thinks.
03:41And it's not a great leap of faith to say, well, if that's what you think, why don't
03:45you get out?
03:46And that's why I'm so worried.