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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, you are watching Khabar Lahariya, I am Muhammad Malik.
00:05Interesting day today, a lot of senior leaders met with Imran Khan.
00:12Shah Mahmood Qureshi, Salman Akram Raja, Fawad Chaudhry, Shibli Faraz, Ali Ameen Ghandapur
00:21I met Ali Ameen Ghandapur for about 2 hours.
00:24First of all, I would like to tell you about it, because there were some very interesting things.
00:28The information that I have received, today he has taken a lot of class, all the leadership, Mr. Khan.
00:35First of all, he said that you people have wasted big opportunities.
00:38When the elections were held on February 8 and February 9, whatever happened,
00:43at that time you people should have been very active, you people should have stayed at home.
00:47Then when DC Pindi's statement came, he said that after this you people did nothing,
00:52you people should have done that too.
00:54And then he took a lot of class that why did they go back from D-Chowk.
00:58He played a lot of all this and most of them sat comfortably.
01:05In fact, at one point, when Mr. Ghandapur came, according to my information, he said,
01:09Uncle, you have also come.
01:11Then he told and he mentioned to him that he had a very important meeting of 1.5-2 hours.
01:20So on that, Mr. Khan also said that if you have a meeting of 1.5-2 hours,
01:25then you become a little soft, everything becomes soft.
01:28I am telling these things because Mr. Khan was in a very aggressive mood when the meeting was held today.
01:33And his opinion is that there will be a punishment on Monday and
01:37keeping it too soft is not going to work.
01:40And this pressure will have to be created.
01:42Then when I met some of the leaders, I talked to one or two of them,
01:46they also realized that to a large extent they believe that the Trump administration will also be involved.
01:52But more than their love, the Trump administration should also be involved
01:56because they want to look completely different from the Biden administration.
02:00Whether it happens or not, that's the thing.
02:02But the takeaway was that they are still very strict.
02:06And they think that in the coming days, this is not a matter of months,
02:10it is a matter of weeks that there will be a lot of force and the attitude will have to change.
02:15Because on the other hand, what we are getting is that the attitude is not changing at all.
02:19You know that the government is not interested at all.
02:21It is in their favor that the fight between the establishment and Imran Khan continues,
02:26they sit comfortably by default.
02:28And the most important thing is that they do not want to facilitate anything
02:32that will make Imran Khan's release possible, whether on bail or otherwise.
02:36Because if Imran Khan is out, then the government is out also.
02:41That's why we don't see those talks going anywhere.
02:45In fact, listen to what Omar Ayub has said today.
03:06If you want to talk, do it, if you don't want to, don't do it.
03:10The government is not interested at all.
03:12All their people have started using harsh language.
03:16So where is the talk going?
03:18Is something happening or something not happening?
03:21Now let's see what options the PTI has.
03:25The government does not want to talk.
03:27It does lip service.
03:28The establishment may not feel so much pressure yet.
03:31They are not talking.
03:32Now what are the options?
03:34The statement that Imran Khan has come out of his film today,
03:38he has said that okay, let's see till Saturday.
03:40If the government does not make a negotiating committee for a week,
03:44then the first wave of civil disobedience will begin,
03:47where he has said that people should not send their money from outside or reduce it.
03:52Shah Mahmood Qureshi has spoken a lot today as well.
03:55But I was informed that when he was sitting inside with Khan Sahib,
03:59he clearly told Khan Sahib, he has said this before as well,
04:02that you have appointed jokers,
04:05that you have appointed jokers on party positions.
04:09And when he was talking to the media, he said a lot of harsh things.
04:13One, he said that I have 40 years of political experience.
04:17He told the party to listen to our advice as well.
04:19And when Khan Sahib was talking to everyone,
04:23Imran Khan praised Shah Mahmood Qureshi a lot
04:27and told all the leaders to go and meet him
04:30and consult with him as well.
04:32But Shah Mahmood Qureshi said that instead of fighting,
04:35we should go towards dialogue.
04:37Negotiations should be given a chance.
04:39Problems should be solved with understanding and understanding.
04:43And on the last meeting, I had advised Bani to postpone the civil disobedience.
04:49If the government is serious, then start the negotiations.
04:52So this is also happening.
04:54But Omar Ayub is saying that if someone wants to talk, do it.
04:56If not, don't do it.
04:57So where do we stand?
04:59What are the options?
05:01Is it a closed door policy?
05:03He has also given speeches.
05:05In fact, if you remember, a famous clip of Bushra Bibi was also released.
05:09In which he addressed the institutions directly.
05:12Listen to what he said then.
05:16I want to say to the institutions that this is completely wrong.
05:19That Khan will take revenge on someone.
05:21Maybe this message does not reach you.
05:23Khan has said that coming to power and taking revenge on someone
05:27is a sign of God's anger.
05:29And he has said that coming to power opens the door of forgiveness.
05:32Not the door of oppression.
05:34So whoever is coming and spreading the message that Khan is angry,
05:37Khan will come and take revenge.
05:39Today, in front of the whole public, I want to make it clear to you that
05:42all this is a lie.
05:44Khan has always said that I have never thought of taking revenge
05:48and I will never take revenge.
05:50Because neither does God like to take revenge
05:52nor should a person come to power and take revenge.
05:57This was the statement of 21st November.
05:59Then it was 26th November.
06:01After that, we saw 5-6 more cases on Imran Khan.
06:04Today, in the GHQ attack case, in the 9th case,
06:084-5 more PTI leaders have been indicted.
06:13Shibli Faraz, Shehryar Afridi, Zain Qureshi,
06:17Qawwal Shozab, Tahir Sadiq, Taimur Malik.
06:20Apart from this, if you look at the list,
06:22Imran Khan has been indicted,
06:24Ali Amin has been indicted in Gandapur,
06:26Shah Mehmood has been indicted,
06:28Yasmin Rashid, Umar Sarfar Seema,
06:30Mehmood Rasheed, Ijaz Chaudhry,
06:32Umar Ayub, Raja Bisharat, Zulfi Bukhari.
06:34There is no one left.
06:36What are the options on PTI?
06:40Let's talk about this.
06:41Nusrat Javed has joined us.
06:43Thank you very much.
06:44Muneeb Farooq has joined us.
06:46He is a senior journalist and analyst.
06:48Mohammad Hanif has joined us.
06:50He is a celebrated author, analyst, writer.
06:52He has a very sarcastic way of talking.
06:59Like I said, he is a celebrated author also.
07:01Shah ji, let's start with you.
07:03Let's start with Hanif.
07:05He is a member of PTI.
07:06He has given a statement.
07:07We will forgive him.
07:08Let's ask him if Vattu's forgive him or not.
07:12Let's start with Hanif.
07:16Let's start with Hanif.
07:17Let's start with Hanif.
07:18Hanif sahib, you have given a statement.
07:20Nusrat sahib has asked to start with you.
07:23Let's start with you.
07:24What do you see?
07:26See, the rich people of Lahore
07:30have spread these misconceptions
07:32about small nations and small cities.
07:35Vattu sahib is from a very old family.
07:38He has lived in politics.
07:39Yassin Vattu used to rule as a general.
07:42Then there was a miraculous kind of
07:44Punjab's minister, Manzoor Vattu
07:46who had 13-14 seats.
07:48So, he became a minister there.
07:50The rest, what he wants to say is
07:52that he never returns the good secrets.
07:55This is the kind of misconceptions
07:56the people of Lahore have created about him.
07:59So, I think that he will definitely forgive.
08:03Why not?
08:04He did it before also.
08:05And now, he is in jail.
08:07There are people from his own family.
08:09He has worked with them.
08:11So, if Khan sahib has learnt anything
08:15from this, then it is that
08:17there are people from other districts.
08:19Even if the buffaloes are released,
08:21they get them back.
08:22So, Vattu should not be defamed in this.
08:25This is the problem of the people of Islamabad.
08:28But, Malik sahib,
08:29I don't want to make myself
08:31like Salman Ahmed, Anil sahib.
08:34Please forgive me for being from Lahore.
08:37Don't make me like Salman Ahmed.
08:39I am with him.
08:42On a different note, Malik sahib,
08:45I have come on ARY TV for the first time in my life.
08:49So, I want to say sorry to your entire team.
08:53We used to have Ashid Sharif with us.
08:56He was brutally murdered.
08:59It has been a long time since then.
09:02We were from the same community.
09:05He was our brother.
09:06He was a good friend of many people.
09:09His justice is far away.
09:12We could not even find out who our accused was.
09:15So, sometimes I feel a little ashamed
09:17to make such an analysis.
09:19If we cannot tell about our brother,
09:22who has done injustice to him,
09:25then I don't know how we will do the rest of the work.
09:29But, you people keep trying to mention him.
09:32So, thank you.
09:33I just wanted to mention him.
09:34Because, it is ARY.
09:35I did not know that you are from ARY.
09:37No, no.
09:38It is very simple.
09:40We want General Faiz to be investigated.
09:43It is very important for him to be investigated.
09:46Because, he is an important head of this conspiracy.
09:52You have the head of these conspiracies.
09:55Mr. Nusrat is our teacher.
09:57In fact, the area that you are talking about,
10:00where Battu is,
10:01I had been there.
10:03One of my childhood friends
10:05abused all of us, including me.
10:08He said,
10:09Mr. Nusrat, Mr. Javed,
10:11he is the only one who speaks intelligently.
10:14I said,
10:15there are so many intelligent people in Islamabad.
10:17Why don't they explain to the people of Islamabad
10:20what kind of a problem this country is in?
10:22Because, it is happening that
10:23all the details that you have told us,
10:25we are very far away from Islamabad.
10:27And, every day,
10:28we feel ashamed that
10:29today, Mr. Imran Khan said this,
10:31and today, he was told this,
10:33and today, he said this.
10:35But, he was the poet of our area in Lahore.
10:38Mr. Muneer Niazi,
10:39he also went to Lahore.
10:41So, I remember an excerpt from him.
10:43Mr. Nusrat will remember the rest.
10:45You also mention that,
10:46the movement is fast,
10:48and the journey is slow.
10:51You tell us the first one,
10:53it is a little scary.
10:55But, Mr. Aneef,
10:56tell me this,
10:57the benefit of sitting far away is
10:59that there is more clarity.
11:00The closer the paper is,
11:01the more difficult it is to study.
11:03But, the situation from a distance
11:05is more clear.
11:07What do you see?
11:09Do you see any kind of
11:11negotiated settlement?
11:14Or, do you see that
11:15in the end, there will be a big clash?
11:17Will there be an incident
11:19that will become a trigger?
11:21And, after that,
11:22everyone will have a realignment of the situation?
11:24Or, do you think that
11:26on one hand,
11:27there is talk of civil disobedience,
11:29on the other hand,
11:30there is talk of negotiations.
11:31Even though the government does not want to,
11:33they are giving lip service.
11:35Yes, yes, let's talk.
11:36But, even if it is going on.
11:38Sitting from a distance,
11:39what do you see from this clarity?
11:41Do you see a clash, ultimately?
11:43Or, do you think that
11:44there can be a negotiated settlement?
11:46From the outside,
11:48we feel that there is a clash.
11:50You people are sitting there,
11:52you people,
11:53the conversations that take place
11:55in the jails,
11:56or the talks that take place
11:57in the prisons,
11:58will reach you.
11:59From the outside,
12:00looking at it from a distance,
12:01forgive me,
12:02I feel that
12:03it is an allegation.
12:04Like before,
12:05Mongols used to be kings, right?
12:06So, when they used to become kings,
12:08their fundamental task was
12:10that whoever is the challenger,
12:11whoever is the other,
12:12he should either be put in jail
12:14or he should be killed.
12:16So, we are seeing
12:17that kind of situation.
12:19Even though,
12:20we are a democracy,
12:22and a republic,
12:23and all our institutions are functioning.
12:25But,
12:26our attitude towards politics
12:28that has reached us
12:30at this time,
12:32is the same,
12:33that the one in power,
12:34Mr. Imran Khan,
12:35I don't know,
12:36I don't think
12:37anyone remembers
12:38how many cases
12:39have been filed against him.
12:41So, he can be jailed
12:42for 2-4 thousand years.
12:44But,
12:45our current history,
12:48you people are more sensible,
12:50you can tell more,
12:51tells us that
12:52our government
12:53does not have the capacity
12:55to keep a person
12:56and such a popular leader
12:57in jail for so many years.
13:00For example,
13:01Nawaz Sharif
13:02was put in jail once,
13:03he used to go out
13:04sometimes wearing a shroom,
13:05through negotiated settlements.
13:07And then,
13:08he used to become again.
13:09So, slowly,
13:10now it seems
13:11that his work
13:12has been finished
13:13by the state.
13:14So, I think
13:15negotiated settlement
13:16is better
13:17in this way.
13:18Some people also feel
13:19at ease that
13:20everyday,
13:21who will be alive today,
13:22and who will survive today.
13:24In this way,
13:25I think,
13:26the nation
13:27should be removed.
13:29Shahji,
13:30let's talk about this.
13:31You see,
13:32on Monday,
13:33it is almost certain
13:34that punishment will be given.
13:35It will be announced
13:36in the case of
13:37£190 million.
13:38In fact,
13:39some knowledgeable people
13:40are talking up to this point
13:42that Imran Khan
13:43should be jailed for 10 years,
13:45Bushra Bibi
13:46should be jailed for 7 years.
13:47Such things
13:48have also started coming out.
13:49But, Imran Khan himself
13:50is saying that
13:51he will be punished.
13:52Aleema Bibi has said
13:53that we are certain
13:54that he will be punished.
13:55His followers
13:56come to my shows
13:57and they say
13:58that they know
13:59that he will be punished.
14:00This indictment
14:01has started
14:02very quickly
14:03on May 9th.
14:04Now,
14:05we will see
14:06another punishment.
14:07In fact,
14:08it was also seen
14:09from here that
14:10Imran Khan had given
14:11a list of witnesses
14:12earlier.
14:13Then, he also removed them.
14:14So, I asked
14:15a person
14:16in his legal team
14:17what he had done.
14:18He said that
14:19he has to give punishment,
14:20so let the punishment happen
14:21so that the process
14:22doesn't take
14:23more than 2 weeks.
14:24There is no need
14:25to waste time.
14:26So,
14:27there are punishments
14:28happening,
14:29indictments are being
14:30added,
14:31and people are
14:32saying that
14:33Umar Ali Khan has
14:34come today
14:35to talk.
14:36I think
14:37he is also
14:38thinking
14:39what is not happening.
14:40So,
14:41does PTI
14:42have any options?
14:43I have made
14:44a statement
14:45about Bushra Bibi
14:46because she
14:47spoke directly.
14:48If you have
14:49received a message
14:50or not,
14:51then
14:52what is
14:53the solution?
15:51what is the solution?
15:52So,
15:53I have
15:54made
15:55a statement
15:56about Bushra
15:57Bibi.
15:58I have
15:59made a
16:00statement
16:01about
16:02Bushra
16:03Bibi.
16:04I have
16:05made a
16:06statement
16:07about
16:08Bushra
16:09Bibi.
16:10I have
16:11made a
16:12statement
16:13about
16:14Bushra
16:15Bibi.
16:16I have
16:17made a
16:18statement
16:19about
16:20Bushra
16:21Bibi.
16:22I have
16:23made a
16:24statement
16:25about
16:26Bushra
16:27Bibi.
16:28I have
16:29made a
16:30statement
16:31about
16:32Bushra
16:33Bibi.
16:34I have
16:35made a
16:36statement
16:37about
16:38Bushra
16:39Bibi.
16:40I have
16:41made a
16:42statement
16:43about
16:44Bushra
16:45Bibi.
16:46I have
16:47made a
16:48statement
16:49about
16:50Bushra
16:51Bibi.
16:52I have
16:53made a
16:54statement
16:55about
16:56Bushra
16:57Bibi.
16:58I have
16:59made a
17:00statement
17:01about
17:02Bushra
17:03Bibi.
17:04I have
17:05made a
17:06statement
17:07about
17:08Bushra
17:09Bibi.
17:10I have
17:11made a
17:12statement
17:13about
17:14Bushra
17:15Bibi.
17:16I have
17:17made a
17:18statement
17:19about
17:20Bushra
17:21Bibi.
17:22I have
17:23made a
17:24statement
17:25about
17:26Bushra
17:27Bibi.
17:28I have
17:29made a
17:30statement
17:31about
17:32Bushra
17:33Bibi.
17:34I have
17:35made a
17:36statement
17:37about
17:38Bushra
17:39Bibi.
17:40I have
17:41made a
17:42statement
17:43about
17:44Bushra
17:45Bibi.
17:46I have
17:47made a
17:48statement
17:49about
17:50Bushra
17:51Bibi.
17:52I have
17:53made a
17:54statement
17:55about
17:56Bushra
17:57Bibi.
17:58I have
17:59made a
18:00statement
18:01about
18:02Bushra
18:03Bibi.
18:04I have
18:05made a
18:06statement
18:07about
18:08Bushra
18:09Bibi.
18:10I have
18:11made a
18:12statement
18:13about
18:14Bushra
18:15Bibi.
18:16I have
18:17made a
18:18statement
18:19about
18:20Bushra
18:21Bibi.
18:22I have
18:23made a
18:24statement
18:25about
18:26Bushra
18:27Bibi.
18:28I have
18:29made a
18:30statement
18:31about
18:32Bushra
18:33Bibi.
18:34I have
18:35made a
18:36statement
18:37about
18:38Bushra
18:39Bibi.
18:40I have
18:41made a
18:42statement
18:43about
18:44Bushra
18:45Bibi.
18:46I have
18:47made a
18:48statement
18:49about
18:50Bushra
18:51Bibi.
18:52I have
18:53made a
18:54statement
18:55about
18:56Bushra
18:57Bibi.
18:58I have
18:59made a
19:00statement
19:01about
19:02Bushra
19:03Bibi.
19:04I have
19:05made a
19:06statement
19:07about
19:08Bushra
19:09Bibi.
19:10I have
19:11made a
19:12statement
19:13about
19:14Bushra
19:15Bibi.
19:16I
19:17have
19:18made a
19:19statement
19:20about
19:21Bushra
19:22Bibi.
19:23I
19:24have
19:25made a
19:26statement
19:27about
19:28my
19:30father.
19:31In
19:32last
19:33few
19:34days we
19:35wanted to
19:36do
19:37a
19:38discussion
19:39about
19:40it.
19:41So
19:42I
19:43Muneeb has also joined us. Muneeb, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
19:47Yes, Walaikum Assalam. Sorry sir, I got a little late.
19:49No problem. Tell me, we were talking about talk shocks.
19:53I have always been aware that there will be no discussion before the May 9th elections.
19:59We were talking about what options the PTI has at the moment.
20:03If the attitude is soft, then the voter base is ruined.
20:07If the attitude is hard, then the other side says,
20:10you are attacking the institution, you have a gun on your head,
20:14the government as well.
20:16What options does the PTI have now?
20:18What should they do? They want to talk about it.
20:20They have given offers, they have made a committee.
20:23I ran the Bushra Bibi's sort on the 21st of November.
20:26In that, they directly elected the institutions and said,
20:28even if you don't get the message, I am giving the message directly.
20:32In Punjabi, it is called, Hanoor ki Karan.
20:34So, what options does the PTI have now?
20:38Thank you very much, Mr. Malik.
20:40The request is that the situation at the moment,
20:45I think what I have understood is that the PTI does not have leverage.
20:52The talk of options comes later.
20:55The option comes when you have leverage,
20:58and then you choose what leverage you can use against my opponent.
21:03So, the issue at the moment is that the PTI does not have leverage.
21:07And on the other hand, naturally, we are talking about the establishment.
21:11The firmness of the stance,
21:16it has become so much cemented in the past two years,
21:21that there is no change in it at all.
21:24As my teacher, Mr. Nusrat Javed was saying,
21:27I would second him on that,
21:29that there is no interest at all,
21:32that we have to talk, what we have to do.
21:34And on the other hand, you see,
21:36you can show the tweets of Richard Grenell,
21:38and get vlogs from your YouTuber,
21:40you can sit there and get people to talk.
21:43But then, allow me to say,
21:46because I am a Punjabi and Potohari,
21:48so I cannot sacrifice my belligerence.
21:50So, what will you do?
21:52What will you do?
21:54So, this is the situation, what will you do?
21:57So, you have to do this as well.
21:59Now, you are very interested that Trump has come there,
22:01and this will be done, and that will be done,
22:03so now you have to do this as well.
22:05See, the issue is that here,
22:07if someone has to concede,
22:09even if the event is something else,
22:11Pakistan's history tells us that
22:13this is an event-driven politics of ours.
22:15If an event happens,
22:17which changes the course of Pakistan's politics,
22:19that is something else.
22:21But as we speak,
22:23as I live and breathe,
22:25what I am saying is that
22:27as long as Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf,
22:29on many major issues,
22:31when I say PTI, I say Imran Khan,
22:33if they do not concede,
22:35then these things will not be right.
22:37See, now the situation that has become,
22:39after the last few developments,
22:41Pakistan's Army Chief General Asim Munir
22:43is here,
22:45he happens to be a no-nonsense man,
22:47he comes across as a straight shooter,
22:49he is not talking to any politician,
22:51apart from the Prime Minister,
22:53who has a working relationship with him,
22:55he does not meet journalists,
22:57he does not have any other
22:59type of chit-chat sessions,
23:01the only interaction that you and I have
23:03is with people,
23:05the ISPR briefing,
23:07that too is limited,
23:09that too has changed a lot.
23:11So what all I am saying is that
23:13right now, I do not see the interest
23:15of the other side.
23:17And this too, on the basis of information,
23:19with all due humility,
23:21you can see that this is also tactical,
23:23that let's do this, let's sit down,
23:25PM Allen will sit down, let's have tea and biscuits.
23:27There are a lot of such things.
23:29I don't see a policy shift taking place.
23:33Unless there is a policy shift,
23:35there is no breakthrough then,
23:37there is nothing happening then.
23:39Harif, you are listening to everyone,
23:41you are a great student of history,
23:43and you are a writer,
23:45writers are very sensitive,
23:47they are aware of things.
23:49There is an atmosphere of kings,
23:51kings are always on the move,
23:53on violence,
23:55their endings are always violent.
23:57What do you think,
23:59is there an event
24:01that will change things,
24:03or will these things continue
24:05and are these things tenable?
24:07Because on one hand,
24:09whoever it is,
24:11an extremely popular former Prime Minister,
24:13his vote bank, we saw,
24:15what was intact,
24:17when the 8th Republic saw the election,
24:19the vote bank is intact,
24:21the leader is in his place,
24:23but the party structure is completely destroyed,
24:25and a lot of things,
24:27he himself took his class,
24:29his leadership.
24:31So will an unforeseen event
24:33change things,
24:35or is there another way?
24:39Mr. Malik, you mentioned this,
24:41Mr. Mandeep also mentioned this,
24:43of events, of unforeseen events.
24:45So I think you are talking
24:47about an incident.
24:49Do you remember the title of your book,
24:51the title of the novel, Haleem?
24:53Exploding Case of Exploding Mangoes.
24:55Exploding Case of Exploding Mangoes.
24:57Sir, it is a novel,
24:59in fact,
25:01as you mentioned,
25:03children have been reading it
25:05for 10-12 years,
25:07it is written with love.
25:09In fact, my friend used to say,
25:11it's a love letter to the Pakistan Armed Forces.
25:13He used to read it for 10-12 years,
25:15in colleges and universities,
25:17I also became a small writer,
25:19then his translation came in Urdu,
25:21he got angry,
25:23he didn't misbehave,
25:25but he went,
25:27he promised,
25:29that we will return it,
25:31we have orders from above,
25:33but keep that aside,
25:35I have done my self-publicity.
25:37Both of you mentioned
25:39an incident.
25:41Now, I remember,
25:43that last week,
25:45we had two big Saniyas,
25:47one from Bangladesh,
25:49one from West Pakistan,
25:51we call it Saniya,
25:53they call it a war of freedom,
25:55and then the APS one,
25:57if you ask his parents,
25:59they say that
26:01he didn't get justice.
26:03Then,
26:05a new Saniya is also going on,
26:07I don't remember the date,
26:09but it happened in Lahore,
26:11at the home of the Corps Commander.
26:13Which May was it?
26:15That was also a Saniya.
26:17It was in May 9.
26:19That is also a Saniya,
26:21there are cases going on,
26:23you mentioned all of them.
26:25I think,
26:27the main thing,
26:29which Muneeb Sahib said,
26:31he said it humbly,
26:33so I think,
26:35and sitting from a distance,
26:37the establishment of Pakistan,
26:39it has always received
26:41a lot of love.
26:43We change our history like this,
26:45even during General Zia's time,
26:47there were people who loved him a lot.
26:49Musharraf, we have all seen,
26:51there were people who loved him a lot.
26:53But even when there was no dictatorship,
26:55an army,
26:57especially from the central parts of the country,
26:59from Punjab, from here and there,
27:01it has received
27:03unconditional love,
27:05unquestioning love,
27:07that people don't question it.
27:09Now Nusrat Sahib will say,
27:11that only the boys sitting on it,
27:13the boys who are on the phone,
27:15or the youth bulge,
27:17but I think,
27:19the matter has gone a little beyond that.
27:21I will give you just one example of that.
27:23I have just checked,
27:25recently,
27:27to see what our institution,
27:29ISPR, is saying about some matter.
27:31So I came to know,
27:33that they have not tweeted for a year.
27:35And then I came to know one more thing,
27:37that their due love,
27:39I don't know if it is allowed to praise the army
27:41on your channel or not,
27:43but I am doing it anyway.
27:45So sometimes they were accused,
27:47like Osama Bin Laden,
27:49you remember the incident that happened,
27:51he came at night and took them away.
27:53And later, people made fun
27:55that where were our radars,
27:57where were our planes.
27:59But 4-5 years ago,
28:01there was another incident,
28:03when India tried to do air strikes on Pakistan.
28:05So Pakistan
28:07put down their hands,
28:09caught a man,
28:11showed him on TV,
28:13and I think,
28:15it was a great thing for them,
28:17that for the first time,
28:19we saw a war trophy in our lives,
28:21that we know how to protect our borders.
28:23And all of you,
28:25praised the history.
28:27Now, when such historical incidents happen,
28:29a film is made on it.
28:31Obviously, a film was made on it,
28:33made by the institutions,
28:35and it was around the same incident.
28:37It was a very interesting incident,
28:39the youth of Pakistan were very happy
28:41that we made tea and sent it back to Abhinandan.
28:43And he said, the tea is very good.
28:45Now that film was made,
28:47and it was made by Shoaib Mansoor,
28:49who has written Dil Dil Pakistan,
28:51who has previously done
28:53very good TV serials for his institutions.
28:55Now that film was made,
28:57and its teaser was also released,
28:59and it was very good, exciting.
29:01But,
29:03that film could not be shown.
29:05What is the reason for that?
29:07They fear that when it will be shown in cinemas,
29:09either people will not watch it,
29:11or if people watch it,
29:13they will misbehave.
29:15This is how people have become nowadays.
29:17So, I think, our establishment,
29:19when they don't get love,
29:21they get angry.
29:23So, sometimes I feel that
29:25the establishment is angry with the community.
29:27So, the ways to appease it,
29:29the elders are sitting with you,
29:31you must be familiar with
29:33how to appease
29:35the angry community.
29:37And sometimes I feel
29:39that the establishment
29:41is angry with itself.
29:43See, who was the establishment
29:45for us? It was General Faiz Ameer.
29:47We used to hear that the whole country
29:49is run by him.
29:51Afghanistan is also run by him.
29:53But, where is he today?
29:55So, this
29:57anger of the establishment
29:59against itself,
30:01I think, is more dangerous.
30:03The rest of the politicians
30:05have their own problems.
30:07I think, that is a little scary.
30:09Rest,
30:11you put up this show every day.
30:13Let's take a break from the show.
30:15It is time for a break.
30:17We will come back and talk again.
30:19My question is the same.
30:21What will happen? How can things
30:23improve? Because,
30:25it has become like a Guardian Knot.
30:27How will it open?
30:29And, as you said,
30:31without any trigger,
30:33without any triggering event,
30:35there should be a way.
30:37It is a republic, a country of 25 crores.
30:39There are serious people.
30:41It is not necessary that every fight
30:43ends with a fight. Is there a way?
30:45We will talk about this after the break.
30:47Welcome back.
30:49Muneeb was also talking.
30:51You were also talking.
30:53The impression I get is that
30:55there is no compulsion
30:57to talk to Imran Khan about the establishment.
30:59There is no desire of the government
31:01because they are the children of conflict.
31:03They have to benefit from everything.
31:05So, will there be a compulsion
31:07of the PTI
31:09to create a compulsion?
31:11If it creates a compulsion,
31:13we have seen fatigue on the streets.
31:15Punjab is not being unlocked.
31:17So,
31:19can this system
31:21not work like this?
31:23You can't wish Imran Khan away.
31:25Imran Khan cannot force them to talk to me.
31:27There is an uncertainty in the country.
31:29So, what will be the way out?
31:31Baba, I am telling you
31:33again and again that
31:35these are the things
31:37that I, you,
31:39Hanif, Muneeb,
31:41as a common man,
31:43as an average person,
31:45are thinking about.
31:47But the Farsi proverb
31:49that says,
31:51Amoor-e-Sultanat
31:53tells the kings.
31:55So, if the opposition alliance is formed,
31:57can the government
31:59make a new social contract?
32:01The problem is
32:03that no doubt
32:05if a person is insane
32:07he will question
32:09that Imran Khan is not popular.
32:11Now, this popularity
32:13is due to
32:15Hanif's kindness.
32:17He is sitting far away.
32:19People like us are not ready
32:21to face him.
32:23But what happens is
32:25that the people who meet him,
32:27people of our age
32:29talk to him.
32:31They say,
32:33tell us
32:35how popular was Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto?
32:37Do you remember?
32:39Yes.
32:41I was hanged.
32:43I didn't get hanged.
32:45You know, we think like that.
32:47Then when we say social media,
32:49they say,
32:51why is there a war today?
32:53Social media,
32:55they have their own.
32:57What I mean to say is
32:59that what I feel
33:01is that
33:03Khan Sahib is also
33:05doing injustice
33:07that he wants to become
33:09which is not possible
33:11in politics.
33:13Who was in Nawabzada Nasrullah Khan's
33:15Jamaat other than
33:17Arsha Chaudhary?
33:19Our late friend,
33:21a very loving,
33:23hospitable person,
33:25he loved us more than his brothers,
33:27Syed Kabir Ali Basti.
33:29He had kept a Jamaat alive
33:31in memory of Malik Qasim.
33:33There was no Jamaat for tankers
33:35but in MRD,
33:37he was given a share.
33:39Here,
33:41Hamid Raza,
33:43he is a Jamaat.
33:45He is a school of thought.
33:47Mahmood Khan Achakzai
33:49is a definite voice.
33:51You expand
33:53and for example,
33:55Maulana Fazlur Rehman
33:57when he comes close to you,
33:59when you decide
34:01that since I do wargaming
34:03alone,
34:05I will make them deliver,
34:07I will make them wing.
34:09More analysis is that
34:11they are perhaps not as popular
34:13as once upon a time
34:15they used to be.
34:17For example,
34:19in the days of Zia,
34:21as you say,
34:23Hanif is very good in comparison.
34:25I think
34:27in the time
34:29when we used to
34:31get into socialism,
34:33with the concept of
34:35objective reality and subjective reality,
34:37in that,
34:39when foreign factors come,
34:41and there is an old saying
34:43that the way to Islamabad in Pakistan
34:45goes from America to Washington.
34:47I think
34:49they over-speak.
34:51For example,
34:53and there is confusion in that too.
34:55For example,
34:57in America,
34:59his name is Sajjad Barki.
35:01In November,
35:03he conceded outside the
35:05Washington National Press Club
35:07that he had met with Trump.
35:09It's a big thing.
35:11I broke this news.
35:13After meeting him,
35:15it was expected that
35:17there would be a tweet from Trump.
35:19It didn't come from him,
35:21but it came from Rick.
35:23Today,
35:25he has mentioned
35:27the sanctions.
35:29We have come to know
35:31that it was done by
35:33Michael Kogelman.
35:35Immediately, Sajjad Barki
35:37accepted it
35:39like a martyr.
35:41He said,
35:43the party has just started.
35:45On the other hand,
35:47I would say,
35:49being fair,
35:51very responsibly,
35:53Zulfi Bukhari
35:55condemned it.
35:57Now,
35:59this type of problem
36:01is generating
36:03a narrative of justice
36:05if you are US based
36:07and you are sitting
36:09on your
36:11keyboard.
36:13And then you also have
36:15if you are so good looking as you are,
36:17then you are running
36:19a YouTube channel and a shop.
36:21Muneeb,
36:23is this the only option
36:25to form an alliance
36:27with the opposition?
36:29Because the party has only two options.
36:31Either heat up the streets
36:33or form a political alliance
36:35so that the government and everyone
36:37can sit together and then
36:39form a new social contract
36:41and talk about changes
36:43and decide on the rules of the game.
36:45Is this the only option?
36:47Instead of talking to the government
36:49and insisting,
36:51the PTI should first
36:53form an alliance.
36:55Look, Mr. Malik,
36:57this is an option
36:59to form an alliance
37:01but what all of them
37:03would like to do
37:05is to tell the establishment
37:07to get the elections done
37:09after two years
37:11and let's get rid of this
37:13government and then
37:15a free and fair election
37:17on which no one can question.
37:19Look, the current system
37:21has been stitched up
37:23for the people in power
37:25and for the people who matter.
37:27It has done wonders for them.
37:29They say, look,
37:31the economic turnaround
37:33of Pakistan is better
37:35this year than last year
37:37and next year will be better
37:39and then obviously next year
37:41will be better and a lot of things
37:43are in the pipeline.
37:45So how can we say that
37:47someone is upset with the PM
37:49No, look, if it's that simple,
37:51the government has never
37:53made a counter-Bianiya.
37:55They start in the morning and
37:57have 3-4 press conferences
37:59in the evening.
38:01Imran Khan has made the TOR for them.
38:03The thing is, Mr. Malik,
38:05with due respect,
38:07my opinion is that
38:09the hybrid regimes
38:11in which PMLN
38:13may remember after a while
38:15that there is no Bianiya,
38:17the governments which are
38:19made up of hybrid components
38:21don't need narratives,
38:23they need power.
38:25This government is not
38:27gathered by power,
38:29it is run by power.
38:31That's a very valid point.
38:33Mr. Ali, tell me one thing,
38:35if you understand
38:37the circles, the government
38:39that it is irrelevant,
38:41there is no need to talk,
38:43but the day starts and
38:45all the senior government
38:47spokespersons talk about the same person.
38:49The TOR remains central,
38:51whether it is good or bad.
38:53How long can you
38:55pretend that
38:57these things will continue?
39:01Look, we are
39:03talking for a while,
39:05so no one can ignore it.
39:07But I think,
39:09as Mr. Muneeb said
39:11in his initial analysis,
39:13it is their attitude
39:15to do what they want to do.
39:17I don't think such things
39:19are talked about on TV.
39:21But it is a good thing.
39:23It is an expression of their
39:25will and determination.
39:27And they have been
39:29managing the country
39:31for 75 years.
39:33But they have to continue.
39:35So I think they should
39:37at least take care of
39:39their self-interest,
39:41their personal enmity.
39:43The result of that
39:45has never been good before.
39:47It will never be good again.
39:49You keep waiting for
39:51an event to happen.
39:53But sometimes it happens
39:55that an event happens
39:57and we don't even know about it.
39:59You must have read
40:01a story yesterday
40:03that a ship sank in Greece.
40:05The Pakistani children
40:07who run away,
40:09they were small,
40:11including a 13-year-old.
40:13And I remember that
40:15every 13-year-old dreams
40:17of running away from home.
40:19After that,
40:21I also dreamed of coming to Lahore.
40:23And our whole Pakistan was made
40:25of those who grew up in villages.
40:27Then they got some education,
40:29then they came to the city,
40:31did some hard work,
40:33and something or the other was made.
40:35So recently,
40:37when I was teaching
40:39students in a class,
40:41I had never seen
40:43so much disappointment
40:45and disappointment
40:47in a classroom.
40:49And the reason for that
40:51was that
40:53usually at this age,
40:55children of 18-19 years
40:57have a hope,
40:59a desire to do mischief.
41:01If you do this and that,
41:03life will get better.
41:05But a child used
41:07the word
41:09royalty.
41:11So,
41:13no matter what we do,
41:15usually 2-4 years will pass,
41:17Imran Khan will come back,
41:19then our situation will get better.
41:21Or economic turnaround,
41:23which Mr. Malik is talking about.
41:25So, I have never seen
41:27so many children of 17-19 years
41:29in a classroom
41:31before in my life.
41:33In every classroom,
41:352-4 children are disappointed.
41:37So, I felt that
41:39actually,
41:41there is a change.
41:43Now, I don't know
41:45which change we are waiting for.
41:47But there is a change.
41:49And that 13-year-old child,
41:51obviously,
41:53has a desire to go abroad,
41:55to see Europe.
41:57But he also didn't feel at ease
41:59to go to Lahore,
42:01but I am speculating
42:03that he knew
42:05that his life, his future,
42:07nothing will happen here.
42:09He wants to run away from here.
42:11And if he has to,
42:13then let him go.
42:15I think this is the reason
42:17why people want to run away so desperately.
42:19I think you have put it very aptly
42:21and depressingly
42:23you are speaking the truth.
42:25I will take a break.
42:27And for the last section,
42:29will we be trapped
42:31in a vicious cycle
42:33in which there is
42:35no way out
42:37until people
42:39step back one by one.
42:41Will this vicious cycle
42:43continue without it?
42:45I will answer after the break.
42:47Welcome back to the show.
42:49Muneeb, closing comment.
42:51Will this cycle break or
42:53will it continue like this?
42:55The cycle should break.
42:57People should step back.
42:59But the situation
43:01right now,
43:03I don't see this cycle breaking.
43:05Because
43:07the stakes are so high
43:09and the decision has been made
43:11that one says
43:13the other is wrong,
43:15so I don't see any change
43:17unless
43:19something happens.
43:21But history tells me
43:23that maybe after Imran Khan's convictions
43:25the situation will improve
43:27a little.
43:29But the sword of conviction
43:31that is going to stay there.
43:33Maybe after that
43:35they will get bail
43:37at some high court level.
43:39But the conviction
43:41will be in the £190 million case
43:43and in the Chana House
43:45and the GHQ case as well.
43:47But I sincerely hope
43:49that the situation improves
43:51but I don't see a complete improvement.
43:53Do you see any change
43:55in Trump's administration?
43:57No, I just want to say one thing.
43:59Haneef has also
44:01come out of his creative mind.
44:03We have
44:05an ongoing situation
44:07in Parachinar.
44:09In this winter season
44:11where the government
44:13is admitting that
44:15139 children died due to
44:17lack of medicine
44:19and one team has
44:21aircraft guns.
44:23But
44:25the so-called
44:27mainstream media
44:29in our discourse
44:31has been mentioned a lot.
44:33The last thing is that
44:35they have not come out.
44:37Since Haneef started
44:39with Malik Niazi,
44:41it was my age,
44:43but he did it.
44:45Thank you all
44:47for talking to us.
44:49This is a very cruel thing.
44:51When it comes, it doesn't let you think.
44:53And when it goes,
44:55it doesn't even give you
44:57a chance to regret.
44:59Unfortunately, whatever is in power,
45:01whether it is a civilian or whatever,
45:03when it is in power, it thinks
45:05that everything will happen with power.
45:07The best thing is that when you are in power,
45:09then even if you negotiate
45:11from a position of strength,
45:13finish things.
45:15I am reciting all the poems of
45:17the first person who sat on the throne here.
45:19He too believed in being his God.
45:23Whatever comes in power in our country,
45:25everyone becomes God.
45:27And all the dictators and
45:29addicted autocrats of our civilians are included.
45:31For this country,
45:33we can only think that
45:35God should talk to each other.
45:37Do it from a position of strength,
45:39do it from a position of weakness,
45:41but there is national prosperity in conversation.
45:43Allow me, Allah Hafiz.