Aleteia's Cerith Gardner sits down with "Mary" director D.J. Caruso to talk about the new Netflix film.
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00:00Thanks for taking the time to speak to us.
00:09My pleasure.
00:10So, DJ, I have to ask you, so, you know, you've done films such as Disturbia with Shia LaBeouf
00:17and then you've done horror movies, Leo, and now you've done a film about the Virgin Mary.
00:23So what made you do that?
00:25It's a big transition.
00:26Well, you know, it's interesting.
00:28I think, you know, obviously Mary's the most, one of the most compelling characters ever
00:32to walk the planet.
00:33But I think you just find as a filmmaker, you want to find a character or story that
00:38speaks to you, that you can sort of put yourself into the movie, whether it's Disturbia, Eagle
00:42Eye, even Crazy Triple X with Vin Diesel.
00:45You find something in you, the adventure in you, something that allows you to put yourself
00:49into the movie.
00:50And here with the Virgin Mary, it was really easy for me, being a person of faith, being
00:54raised Catholic and adore Mary more than anybody that ever walked this earth outside
00:58of Christ, that it was easy for me to say, like, I'd love to be able to tell a proper
01:04story about her that can humanize her and make her more accessible to more people, whether
01:09it's a younger audience who, you know, sometimes that beautiful, iconic, holy mother seems
01:13maybe too far away from them or a distance or somehow, and that this would be a way to
01:18connect to a younger audience and even, you know, any audience, but to connect a younger
01:22audience to her and to understand her grace, her importance and her courage.
01:26So to me, it was just, you know, a great, a great character and a great movie, and it
01:31would be a great way for me to celebrate my faith.
01:35It is lovely.
01:36And it's actually, it's really nice to see her actually, as we imagine, as a young woman,
01:42you know, having her relationship with her mother and father.
01:44And it is really lovely to see that transpire throughout the film.
01:48You know, I think you did a great job with that.
01:52Yeah, it was important because it's like, who was she and like, who were her parents?
01:55Like, I remember being, I'm raised Catholic and a Catholic, and I remember hearing about
01:59St. Joachim and Anne and Mary's parents, but like, I don't remember, like, where, how did
02:03I know this from Catholic schools, from, it wasn't in the canonized scripture.
02:08So kind of looking at some of the other texts and kind of putting stuff together, it was
02:12beautiful to kind of lay our foundation of our story, you know, on the gospel, and then
02:17to say, great, how can I honor and fill this in and, and take you through the full experience
02:22of Mary from her birth, to the moment she delivers Christ to the temple, the gift to
02:26the temple.
02:27And it really was, it really was a moving experience.
02:30It was a difficult experience, because the chute was tight, and you have to pull off
02:34a lot of things.
02:35And when you have, when you set the bar high for yourself, you know, you're always challenging
02:38yourself every day.
02:40But yeah, it was just, it was just an incredible ride and, you know, an honor to be able to
02:46tell the story.
02:47Well, it's, I mean, I have a little question for you, because when I watched it, there,
02:52there are a few sort of, like, minor discrepancies with the Bible.
02:58So for example, in the film, you have Mary's mother, persuaded to go and stay with her
03:05aunt, Elizabeth, instead of the angel Gabriel.
03:10So there are a few little differences that people might notice.
03:15I know you had a lot of input from top theologians, but, you know, was there a reason for this?
03:20Well, there was a way, there was a way for me to also say, you can make that connection,
03:24because I also felt, again, for the audiences, like, so if, if Gabriel was to visit Anne,
03:29her mother, that he could have explained that to her.
03:31So she knows, like, Gabriel's connecting her to go visit, to go visit Elizabeth.
03:36So kind of trying to make a connection, because Gabriel, Gabriel is more present in my film
03:40than he is in the scriptures.
03:41So you'll see Gabriel pop up a few more times, because, you know, knowing that his guiding
03:45hand was there on behalf of the Lord.
03:48So that, that was a little bit, you know, but it wasn't, it wasn't to say, like, well,
03:51we're just making stuff up.
03:53These were things that really happened.
03:54But I, I felt it was so important that, particularly that there's a potential to get a little desensitized
04:04to Mary's story, because of everything she did, and was so amazing that she was guided
04:09along this path.
04:11But she has to also make personal decisions, like the fiat in the movie, when Mary says,
04:15let it be done to me, let it be me, is such a, when I, when I shot that scene, I was operating
04:21one of the cameras, and I just, a tear just came down my cheek.
04:26And I realized, like, oh, this is why I'm making the movie.
04:30Because people need to see that, like, yes, she didn't hesitate.
04:33But Mary made a choice.
04:34And she said, yes, you, you use me, I'm going to take this and you Lord into my heart.
04:39And I'm with you 100%.
04:41And that's the message that I want everyone to get out of this movie is, we have to make
04:45that choice to give it over to God, we have to let him into our hearts.
04:49And with all the noise and everything that was coming at Mary at that time, and all the
04:53noise that are coming at us right now, with all these things in the world, what a great
04:57message and like, to me, that was the great way to make to make me so yes, it might be
05:02a little different from the way that it seemed in the scripture.
05:06But you have to, as a filmmaker, be able to fill these things in cinematically, while
05:10honoring what was in the scriptures, and just sort of elevate them so that it can become
05:14a great cinematic experience that is still paying reverence to the story.
05:20I think I mean, it's, it was a really great job.
05:22And you stuck to like the bones of so well, and you know, no, it's really great.
05:28But another question that I mean, how do you go about casting someone to play Mary, you
05:34know, it's, it's quite a big role that.
05:36Well, you know, as a person of faith, what do we do when we're like, I need some guidance,
05:41I need some help, I prayed, right?
05:42I prayed, and I just said, God, I need someone that can be as authentic, and beautiful as
05:49your mother, and I need to find someone with that grace.
05:51And so I really did that.
05:53And then when we kind of looked all over the world, and we started casting, and then some
05:58of the tapes came in from Tel Aviv.
06:01And I saw Noah, and like, out of all the hundreds of girls that I'd seen, and there's some great,
06:06great talented people, I just knew it, like, you just feel it, you know, when you just
06:09have a feeling.
06:10I was like, wow, that's her, like, she has this beauty, she has this grace, but she has
06:15an incredible accessibility, which I think is very important.
06:20And then also, Noah is a fighter, she's tough.
06:22She's an athletic girl.
06:23And so the combination, to me, felt like, wow, God, you answered my prayers, like, and
06:28I'm so proud of, I was blessed to have her, right?
06:32I mean, and wow, she also hails from the region where Mary herself was born.
06:37And it to me seemed like it was divine intervention to help me find Noah, because of the prayers
06:42that I said.
06:43And that was really, that was really what it was.
06:45And it's like, I knew it, I knew it, the second I saw her, it was just, it was magic.
06:51And it's funny, because you talk about Noah having strength herself, and there's one scene
06:55in the film, which was a little bit, so we have Noah and, well, Mary and King Herod,
07:04played by Anthony Hopkins, having a bit of a staring competition.
07:08I am going, Mary for the win, all the way, by the way.
07:13It was really quite unsettling, but excellent.
07:16Now, how did you go about directing?
07:20So you have the legendary Anthony Hopkins, who has, you know, decades and decades of
07:24experience, and then like Noah Cohen, she's a relative newcomer to the business.
07:29How do you direct that?
07:30Well, that was so interesting that you pinpoint that out, because there's two things I think
07:35are really fascinating about that.
07:36And one of them is something magical that Sir Anthony was bringing to Herod, was that
07:41sense of feeling from seeing Mary, that there was something greater than him, something
07:46more powerful about to happen, right?
07:49So he's sort of playing that subtext of like, oh, the subconscious objective of like, yes,
07:57I haven't been doing things right, but like, is there something out there that's bigger
08:00and more powerful than me that maybe I need?
08:03And so I decided, I asked the director of photography, and usually in a movie, you don't
08:08shoot in two directions, correct?
08:09Like you shoot one direction, one way, the sun moves.
08:13I really wanted to shoot both those closeups, those pushing closeups of them at the same
08:18time.
08:19So we had two cameras, I was operating one, and I was pushing on Noah, and the DP was
08:23operating one and pushing on Sir Anthony.
08:24So that is like, take to take, like right there, like you said, it's an amazing staring
08:29contest where the two make this interconnection.
08:32And then also in a, again, when you're talking about how do you expand on the scriptures
08:35and stuff, there's also like a flash forward that happens in Herod's mind, that's sort
08:40of a premonition of what's to become of the world.
08:44But it was really, really powerful.
08:45You have this great 86-year-old, the goat, one of the greatest of all times, and this
08:48young 20-year-old girl, and it's just the power of cinema.
08:52And I think Noah held her own, and Sir Anthony was completely, completely captivated by her
08:59and the essence of Noah representing Mary.
09:02So it was a really beautiful scene to direct.
09:06And I think you can see that in the movie, you can see that the relationship between
09:11the two, even though there weren't many scenes where they were together, but you can see
09:15that there was that dynamic, it was really excellent.
09:20And so moving on to Joseph.
09:22So it was really charming to see Joseph brought to light by, so it's Ido Tako, Ido Tako, the
09:29Joseph.
09:30Yeah, Ido Tako.
09:31Yeah.
09:32So in it, you know, you see the way that he's portrayed as this great defender of Mary.
09:37I mean, wow.
09:38I think we'd all like to have someone like that in our lives.
09:41Well, it's really...
09:42Go ahead.
09:43Sorry, go ahead.
09:44No, I was going to say, he's so charismatic as well, you really gave him a personality,
09:50but it was still one that was so respectful of the essence of Joseph.
09:54So what was the thing that you wanted to get across to the audience about Joseph?
09:58What were the aspects about him?
09:59Well, it was really, really important to me, and there's a little bit of a backstory here.
10:04So a really good friend of mine, Bishop David O'Connell, who ended up passing away before
10:09the movie came out, and tragically, we were talking about the story and he is, I've never
10:16seen anyone adore the Virgin Mary more than Bishop David O'Connell.
10:19Like, I mean, Mary, Mary, Mary, his message to me was always pray to Mary and amazing.
10:24But he said to me, we were sitting up, I think it was like a New Year's Eve day, and he said
10:29to me, can you do me one favor?
10:32Give Joseph a voice.
10:34Please give Joseph a voice.
10:35He's sort of, you know, he's speechless in the gospel, really.
10:38Give him a voice.
10:39What would it have been like to have a fiance or to have a girl who's been ostracized because
10:45she's pregnant and no one believes her story, this story?
10:49And what would it be like if the mob is telling you what you should be doing and how you should
10:53be treating her?
10:54And Joseph stands up and he said, please give him a voice.
10:57So it was always important to me in the script that I ended up talking to Tim, the writer,
11:00and we kind of crafted this and sort of found this beautiful voice for Joseph of someone
11:05who doesn't really know what he's getting into.
11:08And he sort of discovers this over the course of this relationship, what's going to happen.
11:12And then he's also, he has fear and apprehensions about what's happening, but he is committed.
11:18And when he commits, there's a great scene in the movie, one of my favorites is after
11:23this really harrowing experience for Mary when she was out into into the town looking
11:28for Joseph and they find her and they almost stone her.
11:31It's really horrible where Joseph comes in and he's this protector and it all kind of
11:36settles down.
11:37And he says to her, you know, I'm going to love this child best that I can.
11:44And if you allow me, I will love you the best I can.
11:47I thought, wow, that's a voice for Joseph, right?
11:49That is the guy, that's the guy you want, you want by your side.
11:52And I think it's really important for a younger generation to see Mary and Joseph in their
11:57light as in this light as contemporaries, like they're my age or just a little older
12:02than I am or young.
12:03So look what they can do and look what they went through and look at the choices they
12:05made and look how this journey is very difficult.
12:09It's not easy.
12:10But what they did, they delivered this amazing gift to the world.
12:13And if I can fight against certain things and elements that we all can deliver a gift
12:17to the world.
12:18Yeah.
12:19Yeah.
12:20You can.
12:21And it really comes across because as you said, you know, they become so relatable.
12:25Yeah.
12:26Much more relatable than when you read about them, obviously.
12:29So no, it's really because I was going to say, you know, people, everyone knows the
12:34story of Mary, you know, believers, non-believers, it's pretty good.
12:39Everyone kind of knows it.
12:40That's right.
12:41You know, why?
12:42I mean, from your movie today, what are you hoping people will get from that?
12:46Well, I hope that people will get that.
12:48This movie is a more insular in a way where you're really taking this from Mary's perspective.
12:54You know, she's not just part of the nativity story or part of the story like we are experiencing.
12:59We shot this movie from her point of view and what she would be experiencing.
13:02And so the audience now is really on this journey with her, you know, on this with her
13:07by her side experiencing this.
13:09So I hope that they would, people would feel closer to her and understand her more and
13:12feel that there's a lot of contemporary things.
13:15Things are happening today that are similar to what Mary had to go through and they can
13:19find strength in her.
13:20They can adore her.
13:21And, you know, if you're Catholic, I want you to make Mary your best friend, like take
13:24her everywhere you go with you and because in real life, no, she'll be there for you.
13:28And that would be the most important thing that it brings people closer to Mary and that
13:32they understand that what she did was amazing and miraculous.
13:37She's, you know, and from a cinematic standpoint, she's a hero.
13:41She's, you know, she's not a superhero with superpowers, but she is a hero.
13:51She's a hero.
13:52She's a hero.
13:53She's a hero.
13:54She's a hero.
13:55She's a hero.
13:56She's a hero.
13:57She's a hero.
13:58She's a hero.
13:59She's a hero.
14:00She's a hero.
14:01She's a hero.
14:02She's a hero.
14:03She's a hero.
14:04She's a hero.
14:05She's a hero.
14:06She's a hero.
14:07She's a hero.
14:08She's a hero.
14:09She's a hero.
14:10She's a hero.
14:11She's a hero.
14:12She's a hero.
14:13She's a hero.
14:14She's a hero.
14:15She's a hero.
14:16She's a hero.
14:17She's a hero.
14:18She's a hero.
14:19She's a hero.