After her debut in 'Bollywood Wives vs. Fabulous Lives', Delhi's Shalini Passi, philanthropist, influencer, Bollywood celebrity and self-care diva, who gives little boxes of herbal dust to her friends, is now in the mass eye. Fair or unfair, deal with her.
Passi, also an art entrepreneur whose eccentricities are now a rage after her debut in 'Fabulous Lives Vs. Bollywood Wives', is a persona frozen in time.
That time is now. Some are even calling her the new self-care guru. Passi is now everywhere. She knows nothing lasts forever. This fame that she had always aspired for has come to her at last.
She walked the runway for several designers over the last few years and in 2020, in a flaming red dress, she was part of an allegorical tale in artist Vibha Galhotra’s 'The Final Feast' where she is the protagonist who cuts a blue “globe-cake” before the rich and the elite leave the earth that has fallen apart after the human greed has finished all resources. Inspired by 'The Last Supper' by Leonardo Da Vinci, the staged-photo work is a sarcastic take on the rich and the rising inequality. Passi fit the part perfectly.
Passi has been dismissed as vacuous but it is true that she has become this phenomenon, a persona that an academic said is an interesting study.
There is a strange quiet that envelopes the house that’s part museum and part an indulgence of a woman who is determined to arrive everywhere. It is a house where there is perpetual summer or fall depending on your mood.
Passi is many things now but mostly someone who is an almost agent provocateur who is forever placed in that liminal space between imaginary and reality. She can afford to be there with her wealth and her curated style. When Karan Johar calls her “Cleopatra” at an art event in Mumbai, she glides past the sarcasm and owns the tag and everything else that comes with it.
Mostly, fame.
Camera : Vikram Sharma, Suresh Pandey, Tribhuvan Tiwari, Divya
Editor : Sudhanshu
Passi, also an art entrepreneur whose eccentricities are now a rage after her debut in 'Fabulous Lives Vs. Bollywood Wives', is a persona frozen in time.
That time is now. Some are even calling her the new self-care guru. Passi is now everywhere. She knows nothing lasts forever. This fame that she had always aspired for has come to her at last.
She walked the runway for several designers over the last few years and in 2020, in a flaming red dress, she was part of an allegorical tale in artist Vibha Galhotra’s 'The Final Feast' where she is the protagonist who cuts a blue “globe-cake” before the rich and the elite leave the earth that has fallen apart after the human greed has finished all resources. Inspired by 'The Last Supper' by Leonardo Da Vinci, the staged-photo work is a sarcastic take on the rich and the rising inequality. Passi fit the part perfectly.
Passi has been dismissed as vacuous but it is true that she has become this phenomenon, a persona that an academic said is an interesting study.
There is a strange quiet that envelopes the house that’s part museum and part an indulgence of a woman who is determined to arrive everywhere. It is a house where there is perpetual summer or fall depending on your mood.
Passi is many things now but mostly someone who is an almost agent provocateur who is forever placed in that liminal space between imaginary and reality. She can afford to be there with her wealth and her curated style. When Karan Johar calls her “Cleopatra” at an art event in Mumbai, she glides past the sarcasm and owns the tag and everything else that comes with it.
Mostly, fame.
Camera : Vikram Sharma, Suresh Pandey, Tribhuvan Tiwari, Divya
Editor : Sudhanshu
Category
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Short filmTranscript
00:00So
00:29we have the very famous Shalvi Pasi and this is the third time I am coming to your house.
00:34I was here when there was lunches cancelled by Mithu Sen and then I was here when they
00:40had announced the Kochi finale, the art from the margin for Anita Dubey.
00:44And that was the first time I think I saw, 2018, and I saw the Marina Abramovich shutter
00:50and I was very fascinated then and the Ravindra Reddy big bust that is there downstairs and
00:56Anita Dubey, the theatre of the saint.
00:58You were always very intrigued and then I saw you on this famous show and I was like
01:04okay let's talk to you and let's figure out about Bombay and Delhi.
01:10And you also said in one of the interviews that you are the old way, like the socialite.
01:18So what does that term mean to you and how has it evolved in a way that what it means
01:22in Delhi now and then when you go to Bombay, does it change?
01:26Actually I would say I am the last of the socialites because now everybody has parties,
01:31they are paid events, people are paid to go to parties, people are paid to host parties.
01:37But for me it's always been the joy of entertaining and joy of bringing together people who I
01:42want to interact with and who I think my friends would love meeting.
01:47So for me it's purely that and also the whole thing of setting up a table, putting up beautiful
01:52flowers, also you know how to and the dynamics of the society does really interest me.
01:59You know how saying something, being someone changes everything around you.
02:03So that whole dynamics, it's a very interesting thing for me.
02:08Coming to socialite being not a good term, I think it's a fabulous term and I completely
02:14own it.
02:15Bombay and Delhi is very different.
02:17In Delhi we mostly go to private parties and events which are at our homes.
02:23Of course if they are weddings, they are at a much larger scale but most of our events
02:29and our invites are very private, they are not put up on social media, the pictures are
02:34not circulated, our style is very personal, we are wearing clothes from our own wardrobe,
02:41doing our own hair and makeup, our accounts are private so it's for ourselves basically.
02:47In Delhi people are just living for themselves and not for the media or to make a point,
02:52they have been doing the same thing for a really long time.
02:55Bombay, there's this culture of you know having an event for the larger audience, you know
03:02there's like a display, you get a stylist, you get yourself styled, you know your hair
03:06is perfect, the jewelry is borrowed, the clothes are collaborated on, hair, makeup, everything
03:13is a collaboration.
03:14So where is your personal style?
03:17How do I know who you actually are?
03:19Do you love red or do you love white or like how do you actually wear your hair and if
03:25you were to do your makeup, how good are you at it?
03:29And there's this whole image that everybody has projected which I feel that you know when
03:34I see people in Delhi, I can still say by somebody's clothes or the way they do their
03:39hair or makeup that you know okay this is what they like, this is what they enjoy, they
03:44could be wearing their grandmother's purse or you know an old beautiful shawl but I think
03:50in Bombay whenever I go, everything is just style so I don't really, for me it becomes
03:56difficult to understand who the person is.
03:58Yeah and coming back to the socialite term, also you said that you were one of the last
04:04ones and what does it mean and how have you made it more evolved in a way or more trendy
04:11now with this thing because you're everywhere like you know everybody is interviewing you.
04:16Yeah well people you know people said that oh you're a socialite, you're page three.
04:21I said but you know how does it matter?
04:23I said you all have made me page three.
04:26Did you want to be page three?
04:27The media is if I don't give an interview, what will you print?
04:32You only have that many people to talk about and it's like a cycle you see and I get the
04:38publicity, the papers get something to write about, the viewers get something to read about
04:43and we just go, I'm just leading my life and if somebody is interested in it, it's great
04:48and you know also in my journey, I meet interesting people like photographers, journalists, writers
04:55so it's also very interesting for me to see their way of working, it's also very inspiring
04:59for me so and as a socialite, I feel that I think that there is a lot that we can do
05:07because we are able to influence a huge part of the society in whatever our own causes
05:13are whether it could be promoting art, dance, theatre or philanthropy because a certain
05:20there is a certain power that we can utilize and it's not just for hosting parties but
05:28it is also for you know bringing arts together and we all are also leading a very difficult
05:37personal life where we have a lot of responsibilities of parents, of families and if we can do
05:43manage a lot of things, it's like doing a lot of things and looking beautiful and entertaining
05:49and bringing joy to others.
05:51Now the other thing is that you always want to be out there in public like why did you
05:55choose firstly this show to be on this show and because it's a lot of exposing yourself
06:01right and to an audience which you don't know which is what the culture now is about, it's voyeurism
06:07also like you really want to get into your life and for the longest time I could not
06:11understand why people would be interested in other people's lives because I find it
06:15really difficult to be interested in sometimes in my own life.
06:18No and just not anybody else, it's also about women, they're really interested in women's
06:22life especially women who look a certain way, who live a certain life.
06:26Yes, so I think for me it was I am an artist, I've always wanted to be associated with the
06:35art world which is very private, very you know not inclusive like we are trying to be
06:41inclusive now but very like you know okay you have to know all this about art to be
06:46included in the club. It's like but the thing is that I felt that my voice was only
06:55reaching a certain amount of people and it had kind of become stagnant, it was the same
07:01conversation. Cinema is a huge medium, it's a very very powerful medium to reach a really
07:07large audience. The opportunity I was given was amazing because the reach is phenomenal
07:16and then once I have that audience I can speak about whatever else is passionate to me whether
07:21it's art, philanthropy, whether it's women's causes, whether it's anything that is close
07:27to my heart like or UNICEF work that we do in Bihar. So I just felt that doing this would
07:35give me a more powerful voice and I can also involve like you said women, it's a show that
07:41women love. Not just women, I think men love it too. I think men love it too and I am
07:48getting messages from kids, from mothers who have six-year-old, they're having sassy
07:55parties, wearing hairbands, straws, clips and you know so and sending me videos. So it is a very
08:01very powerful medium and I am glad that the audience have loved me and now if like they
08:07will be whatever I'm saying like what I spoke about my health, it was very, it was not difficult
08:13for me to say but a lot of my friends said don't talk about your juices, just go and pretend to
08:18eat. Don't open your thing of juices and start having it, just pretend to eat and behind you
08:24eat it. Like I used to get calls like this from my friends because not everyone will understand
08:29but if 80% people think it's strange and weird and it is Ayurveda, if you are supposed
08:37to have raw food and spices and you can heal anything and if even five people actually follow
08:44it and I will feel so amazing that that way of life is being preserved and I am helping so
08:51many people. No and the other thing you mentioned about your voice and what exactly is that voice,
08:55what are you trying to promote exactly and also there is this, I am a rebel without a cause.
09:03I have many, many, anything that some, there are just certain things that which I get passionate
09:09about. Maybe I might not know anything about it or I might have actually had a different thought
09:14about it and suddenly that point in life I'm very passionate. So, I'd love to speak about that. So,
09:19of course, art is there. I love architecture. I want people to understand that. I want college
09:23students to be able to come into museums and art fairs and be confident and interact with art.
09:31Of course, I want women to have more power. I want women not just to be
09:37working and be successful but also be happy. Of course, in the corporate world,
09:42the women are rising and doing such phenomenal things but what about the femininity? They're
09:47losing their femininity. And what do you mean by that femininity? Because I think the social,
09:53I think there's this whole norm if you want to be successful in business, if you want to be taken
09:57seriously, dress a certain way, wear structured clothes, tie up your hair, wear less makeup,
10:02don't wear lead lipsticks, don't wear heels to work, wear clothes which don't show your body.
10:08So, but why? God made us beautiful. God made us in a certain way and we can be beautiful and
10:14carry on doing our work better than anybody else. So, we don't have to hide who we are.
10:21And also, you know, when we hide our femininity, we become very masculine. When we become masculine,
10:26then the energy is not balanced, you know. You believe in all that?
10:29I truly believe in all that, you know. I truly believe that God has given you a body and
10:35you're supposed to be feminine. So, embrace it. Don't, I mean, if you don't like the way,
10:40you don't like to wear feminine clothes but you want to wear structures, that's fine. But don't
10:44wear it because people will take you more seriously. Yeah, that is true.
10:48Just because you want people to take you seriously, you're killing your own heart.
10:51Yeah, I know. Basically, it's all about being free.
10:53It's about being free. Yeah, it's about being free.
10:57And then the other night when we were talking, you mentioned about your exposure to art and
11:01you were in school. And your school was near Triveni Kala and you used to go there. And
11:08just about how you got interested in art and how because you have a very amazing collection.
11:12You've got that Anita Dubey's wall, which is so fascinating and so interesting. Also,
11:17it's about this guy's work to, I mean, the interpretation. Yeah, exactly. And he was
11:21considered really mad and he spent his last years in mental asylum and you chose to put it
11:25right there with the Ravindra Reddy bust, which is also about the women and the gays.
11:33I started painting when I was very young and I really enjoyed it. I had some amazing teachers
11:39in modern school. While growing up, my teacher, Mr. Bishambhar Karna was an enamelist.
11:45And he had a very, very, you know, he used to give me B, B plus. And I just said,
11:52why are you giving me B plus? He says, because you're much more capable and the other people
11:58were doing really bad stuff and they would get an A. And he would grade me really low always
12:03because he wanted to push me. Push you further. So he would tell me that when you walked up,
12:07did you notice the steps walking up? How many steps were there? And what was on the wall?
12:13Can you recreate where I took you? And so what happened with that was that I got into this thing
12:19was actually if I walk into a room for five seconds, I actually go back and draw it because
12:23I pick up the details. And when I started out, of course, it was a fantasy spending hours on
12:30a painting. And then if one thing went wrong and recreating it, because I started working
12:35with watercolors and watercolors is a very unforgiving medium. You can't correct it like
12:40oils and oils. You can just change it around that. And then, of course, the cultural influence of
12:47being in Delhi. My sir was friends with Manjeet Bawa, B.C. Sanyal and many other artists and
12:54they would come to art class often. And then, you know, from school I would walk to Triveni Kala
13:01Sangam. In Triveni Kala, I used to take classes with Mrs. Ashoba Baruta and we used to sneak into
13:08the studio of Mr. Baruta and, you know, look at his paintings because he was this legend and
13:13we all were so afraid of him and he was this amazing artist and so we would sneak into his
13:18studio and see what he was doing. And of course, Triveni had that stage where there was
13:26dancers from Nagaland and even if we did not know about it, we came to know and we met
13:32dancers from different parts of the world. And then there was Lalit Kala Academy where
13:39had the most fabulous exhibitions and we would go and see ceramics there, pottery, arts, culture.
13:47And I think being in Delhi, especially being in this particular area, there was so much that one
13:52could go and see. You could go to the craft museum, you could go to Janpath, to all those
13:59museums on the street. So, culture was always there, living in Delhi. We were always taken to
14:04some museum, either the doll museum or the railway museum. It was a way of life, you know, for us
14:11growing up. And my grandfather built the DD building. So, that's how my interest in architecture
14:17came about. He constructed the Vayu Bhavan and Palika Bazaar. So, sometimes I would go with him
14:23to the sites and I would like, he would get the blueprints, you know, layout. So, I would look at
14:29the, though I did not understand anything. It was very interesting to see this blue paper with blue
14:35lines on it and with these numbers and then seeing it translate into a building. So, that was my
14:41childhood and I wanted to become an artist but I could not go to art school. And yeah, because I
14:49had to, I thought, my parents thought I would get married early and art school is for four years,
14:54the fine art program. And so, I went to Jesus and Mary. Okay. Yeah. And then you got married and
15:02then what happened? After that, did things change for you? But I continued to paint and in college
15:09also, I did like an year's program at JD Institute of Fashion Technology but I didn't finish my, I
15:14did not take a certificate or maybe the last exam because I got engaged and I think when I got
15:22married, you know, my husband's family was, were a lot into the society. They were very much, you know,
15:28a part of the Delhi cultural scene. Me coming from a very conservative family and I was very arty.
15:37So, I had limited friends but I loved to sing, dance and paint. So, it took me time to adjust
15:43because the society was very different. They dressed a lot. Yeah. And they went out a lot and
15:51there was less time for everybody for their, you know, cultural pursuits. But sort of, I had to
15:57navigate my way through. Yeah, that is true. No and another thing. And there were times when I was told
16:03by someone that, oh, she doesn't know how to dress. She's so simply dressed and you know. So, then you
16:08went all out. And she can't entertain because she has no idea. I was in college. Like, I was
16:15like still in college and I hadn't finished my education. I was just 20 years old and that's okay.
16:22And you have taken entertainment to a whole new level, right? Even in throwing parties. But that's
16:26what I do. If someone says I can't do it, I'll just like spend the rest of my life. Not even in the realm of
16:32like, what do you say, normal. Because you have made a statement about normal also. Like, how
16:37they told you to have a normal life and get normal friends and then you said, oh, it's so boring to
16:42your. No, my therapist and I thought like one time I told my therapist, listen, I want to be normal.
16:47Like, I want to be like everybody else. I thought that maybe if I'm normal, it'll be nice.
16:53Yeah. And why were you not normal? Why did you think you were not normal? I'm like jumping from project to
16:57project. Before one project is over, the other one is started. I have like a very tight schedule which
17:03is like, I'm like a Ferrari. It's like a pit stop. I come in, I eat, I change and I'm off to the next
17:08project and I change the chip in my head. Like, literally, I'm like switching, putting another chip
17:13and going off. But I like that pace. I mean, in the middle, I thought, you know, during the pandemic,
17:18I thought, you know, we have time, maybe I can try to reset myself and see what happens.
17:22Go slower. And maybe just enjoy what other people are doing, like sitting at lunch. And I wouldn't
17:28drink wine stuff, but like just sitting at lunch, having a conversation, like everybody else. And,
17:34you know, not just like running from hair to do and have some sort of a project, even how small
17:40or big. Always have a 10 projects going on, 10 meetings, micromanaging things, and still
17:48arranging the flowers. But then we worked on for six months, and it was very boring.
17:55It was very uninspiring and very boring, because it just felt, I just, I just felt very restless,
18:01not doing things, because I just felt I have one life. And I need to do so much. And were you ever
18:08afraid of like, getting into this daily society? Because it can be brutal at times. I mean,
18:13people have talked about how, and then you threw this fancy dress party, I think that day,
18:18Subodh ji had called me and he said, I'm going to this party and he was wearing these vartans.
18:22And now, actually the reverse because, you know, people, I posted a photo with him on Instagram,
18:28and this is my cousin. She's like, Oh, I saw this guy on Netflix. Who is he? So,
18:34I am so embarrassed because of Shalini. No, which is so funny also. But that's the power of this
18:40medium. And I think if used correctly, and it's a very powerful like taking art to the, to the
18:50larger audience, taking your ideas of like raw food, Ayurveda, coming back, you know, when,
18:57I mean, like if normal girls are seeing like young people and saying, Oh, you know, Shalini is
19:03having raw food. Yeah, then maybe they will be able to, they will understand the value of that.
19:08And it's very easily available. Raw, simple raw foods are really easily available. You know,
19:13it's not that we have to get it from somewhere. It's not a superfood. I'm not saying eat chia,
19:18I'm not saying it's just very basic ghee. I'm drinking ghee in the morning. Oh, these things
19:23are. So, what was the question? You took this entertainment thing to a whole new level,
19:29because there was this fancy dress party where also both and I think Bharti showed up with these
19:33vartans on their head. So, well, there was this time where you were wearing these crowns.
19:39So, initially, there was this time that I was really getting eaten up by everyone.
19:43Yeah. And, you know, and it was like, I just, it was not that I was not overwhelmed. I think
19:50everybody else also was overwhelmed. I mean, I was not probably the only girl who felt like that.
19:56They were, I think other people, other women also felt like that. But I think they just some of them
20:02just succumb to it. Some of them just became a part of it. And I thought, you know, and you
20:08disrupted it. And I said, you know what, I'm going to play your play the game. Yeah. By my rules.
20:14Yeah. How did you play the game? Did money help? Did it? Was it like being you help? Because I
20:21we hear so much about you, like, in the sense, you know, Shalipasi walks into art fair and people,
20:26artists follow her because, you know, you'll buy their work. So, I don't know how so it is.
20:30I actually go to the fair before the fair opens. Yeah, I've been doing that for years.
20:36How did you get interested in this collecting art and how did you?
20:38So, it was a very, it was a, see knowledge was always there because I wanted to go to art school.
20:44Yeah, exactly. And I did, I took up, I took up painting in the 10th, in the 11th and 12th as a
20:52subject. And I topped in all India. Okay. And I got a little scholarship. Yeah. Of some maybe I think
20:58I got a scholarship of say maybe I think 5-10,000 rupees from CBSC, which was amazing. And I went
21:05and collected my check because I was among the top five or the top 10. I don't recall. But I and
21:12because when you want to get into art school, you have to learn art history. So we, I mean,
21:17I was learning everything from, you know, Western art to Mesopotamia to Indus Valley.
21:24Everything is basically, it's art history. Art history is like world history. It is what is
21:29happening in the world is happening in the art world. And it's being depicted by those artists
21:33with the World War One or two happening. The artists are depicting it. And so my interest in
21:39history and art history has, is always been there. I mean, those times I used to carry books, I used
21:46to go to buy old books because you know, we, there was no internet. Exactly. So we had to go so many
21:52books and I used to read. And collecting was very natural because once when I could not become an
21:59artist, I loved all these works. And I mean, if I mean, I used to look at Ram Kumarji's strokes,
22:07and I wanted to paint like that. So in 2005, I did a show at India Habitat Center where I only
22:14did works with palette knife. So I've grown up looking at the strokes, copying Amrita Shergill's
22:22work or making a painting inspired by Amrita Shergill's, you know, the women who are sitting,
22:28the village women. So we did all that. Yeah, so it is ingrained in us, like you cannot take it
22:34from me. No, not at all. So that's what I think people I think maybe forgot or did not look at
22:41in the show. I think I don't know, I haven't watched the entire show. But
22:45it's you know, here and there. It comes across as this, you know, pitching women against each other
22:50and kind of like making it seem you know, there was that scene where you go into the sea fully
22:55dressed and I don't see anything wrong in it. But I don't know if it was made up like that,
22:59or it happened naturally. And then there was another scene where everybody else is talking
23:04about the pinup guy. And yeah, they said Shah Rukh Khan, Hrithik Roshan and then he said
23:10Statue of David, which was so interesting, actually very, very disruptive. So I just
23:16also wanted to understand. I'm so glad you picked this word for me. Yeah, because I've
23:21been waiting for someone. No, because this is disruptive, you know, in the sense everybody's
23:25saying Shah Rukh Khan, Ranveer Singh, all of these people and then it is just with a straight face,
23:29say, Statue of David. And then suddenly everybody's looking at you, you know, and it's
23:34also interesting to see how, what do you think about the show now in terms of women against
23:39women? See, I honestly, I mean, I just, I got an opportunity to express myself and I did and
23:46I've always done that. Yeah. And I've always prized myself for the individuality, because I
23:52want to hold on to it. I live in a society, I live in the world. Yeah. But I want to be my
23:57own person. I keep myself very, very isolated, insulated from what happens outside. But it's
24:05not that I'm insensitive. Yeah. But the only way I can function is if I protect my ideas and my
24:12thoughts and my individuality, because everybody now with the media, with the news, with Instagram,
24:17with movies, everybody sort of has the same direction. Completely. And I just cannot live like
24:24that. Coming to this is a very, very popular show among women. And the four of them have a great,
24:32like a fantastic fan following. And it's only because of them that they did this two seasons
24:38that I was able to walk onto a platform. Yeah. Where I was able, I had, I walked in with my eyes
24:44closed, because you see, they already had an audience. And it made it that much easier for me
24:50to experiment and have fun. So did you think a lot about how to strategize? Because it was also
24:55Bombay versus Delhi kind of a situation. And I don't know, like, you know, you have, there is a
25:00weird quotient about you know, where you're drinking champagne with a straw. And then one of
25:04them says, you're a very weird woman. You know, so did you have to deliberately do it? Or it was
25:09just a very natural thing? I mean,
25:11So you're saying whether I planned my act?
25:13No, how did you do it? Like in the sense?
25:15I planned my act. Are you asking me to plan my act? So you know, the only reason I picked up, I
25:21asked the person to place the champagne is just simply, simply, simply is that people in Delhi
25:27know me and the people who are serving also know me, they don't drink. But outside what happens is
25:33they keep asking you, yeah, unless it's his duty is done. He'll keep asking me again. So I just said,
25:38you know, just put a straw just in case I need to, you know, just get a little. And no, it's not
25:46planned, because it's very natural, because you have to plan something. It's like we're shooting
25:50for like five, six hours. Yeah. And it's not just me that I can plan everything and say, you know,
25:55I'm going to put this here. It's a six, it's a seven of us. Yeah. And seven of us and the whole
26:01team and we're shooting outdoor. We're not in India. We have to be very quick. We are on the
26:06beach. So nothing is like, or I'm a great actress. Yeah, you decide. Or I'm this fantastic actress.
26:13Because I thought you switched from this to another because the Statue of David was so
26:16intelligent in a way that, you know, it was like, everybody's like still talking human. And then
26:20you just completely disrupted by saying Statue of David. But I actually drink with a straw.
26:25Because I have a lot of raw foods, which is like spinach. So one time a dentist told me that
26:30have you started eating paan? I was like, no, dog. I don't even smoke or anything.
26:37So he said your teeth are completely stained with the juices. Yeah. So that's why I decided.
26:44And then it's become a way because I'm then you have to basically if you want to do something
26:49very religiously, you got to apply it to all. Otherwise, what happens is you miss it.
26:54Yeah, no, completely. And it becomes like a way of life. That is true. I mean,
26:58whatever you continue to do. So I drink water normally. But I try to just yeah.
27:04And you also travel a lot. Like I've seen your Instagram.
27:06Also, I did not expect what she would say. Right?
27:09Yeah, exactly. But then I thought ajeeb is such a fantastic word because
27:14But also like in between, I was also planning our event, our mash event for the India Art Fair.
27:21We're also running an online magazine. I'm also like, you know, visiting Bihar doing UNICEF work.
27:26So it's not that like, I'm not actually sitting and rehearsing anything.
27:30So I also wanted to like, from you, because you're so exposed to arts and,
27:35you know, you've been to so many like, you know, parties, and there's this
27:39whole camaraderie between artists, women, Mithu Sen, for instance, you know, all kinds of people.
27:43And then in this show, it's also about like, you know, women are pushed against each other
27:47kind of thing. Like, okay, I'm better, you're better making fun of each other.
27:50Probably that's what sells, right? I don't know. That's what I'm assuming. So how did you kind of
27:56look at it? And how did you kind of turn it on? Because you were also very calm, you said that
28:00I love objects more than people. And, you know, I would jump into the ocean rather than spend like
28:05some time with them. And you maintain that kind of like, how did you?
28:09So, like you said, there's a beautiful friendship between Anita, Anita Dubey, Mithu Sen and Dr.
28:18Harsha Lokhandwala. It's such a beautiful friendship. Yes, you know, we, the thing is that
28:24women have to support women. Yeah, because women understand women. And I think that is what we
28:30need to project to the audiences also. Unless because it's like you cannot pull down other
28:36women. Yeah. So the whole idea of me is basically like I've been through many situations in my life
28:43and it's not and I evolved, my reactions have evolved. So it's like 20-30 years of practice.
28:51Because invariably something, someone, something will happen, someone will feel insecure,
28:56someone will feel happy, someone will feel a hundred things. But I cannot, their action
29:03does not define me. And I try to like their action, I try to not have a reaction because
29:08then it just spirals out. And also I see it's like I'm a train, right? And my destination
29:15somewhere else. If I have to stop every time and engage with something or address an issue,
29:21it's just a waste of my time. I know my journey. I know, I don't know my goals.
29:26I don't know where I'm going. But my journey, I know, like I know I'm on a journey. I don't
29:31know where I'm going. Yeah. I want to go somewhere. Yeah. I don't know where that is. I actually don't
29:36know where that is. It doesn't matter as long as you are on the path. But I am on a path. Yeah.
29:39And I'm, I know I'm on a path. And if I see anything which will stop me or slow me down.
29:45You just ignore it. I just ignore it because I have that much energy only like I have this
29:51much energy and I'm going to spend it to reach my goals. And is the world really still tough on
29:57women or women who are just being themselves? Because I see it a lot. I think it would not be
30:03fun. Yeah. If we didn't have the challenges. Yeah. If you're a man or a woman or, you know,
30:10so I think that if there are no challenges, it would be very, very boring. It's the challenges.
30:16It's the things in the morning is the thing that, oh, my God, I have to do this makes you wake up,
30:23makes you sleep on time. Yeah. Makes you exercise, makes you like be on the path,
30:28be on the path. Yeah. Because you're like, if life was just like everything is there,
30:33you would not study, you would not read, you would not. I think that that is a spice.
30:40No, that is true. No, because I see a lot of unkindness in the world, even in the same gender.
30:45You know, you just love to pull down people, you know, which happens a lot, especially with
30:50women who kind of like, you know, if you think is you have to just shut the noise.
30:54Yeah, no, no, no. That is shut the noise. Does it take a toll on you to shut the noise?
30:58Yeah, it does. Because, you know, you if you shut the noise, you are keeping that inside you.
31:04That's why I sing because like, you know, in yoga, we have an asana, which is the Simha Asana,
31:10which you put your tongue out and you release the negativity. So singing is actually that,
31:16you know, singing is actually that. Releasing energy. Dancing is releasing energy. Do you dance?
31:22Yeah, I dance every day. Okay. And you train or? I have different teachers and we just do different
31:29forms of dance. And then I do Pilates or weight training after that. But singing, dancing,
31:34creative pursuits, photography, any cooking, cleaning. Do you ever feel misunderstood?
31:42I enjoy being misunderstood. I love it when I've just done one thing. And it's like for 30 seconds.
31:50And everybody's talking about it for the next 30 days. Yeah, because it's, it's funny.
31:56It's too funny. So my friends are calling me through Diwali. I have not been here. I just
32:02went for Manisha's party. And yeah, that's it. That's just one. And I did one interview that day.
32:09And I think. And you were with Ori, I think in one of the parties.
32:12Yeah, so that is now. But that was, that was now. But like, after the series release,
32:17actually Techni just went out once. And now of course, this one period, three, four days,
32:23which I've been going out. But I was in the evening, I would get calls from like five different
32:29cities in the world, my friends FaceTiming me. They're like, you're omnipresent. Yeah, everywhere.
32:35They're like, you're not here. But everyone's only talking about the world of Shalini Parsi and
32:40we're living in it. Because I'm getting calls from my friends. You know, in the Shalini Parsi world,
32:47it's just like, whatever you want, it happens. No, no, that is that is absolutely true. But
32:52also the fact that this being misunderstood, for instance, a lot is being misunderstood
32:57through this and somebody who like, let's say, okay, Bombay journalists are different,
33:02Delhi journalists are different. And because we have known some of the art stuff that you've done,
33:06like you, I also wanted to ask you about the fact that you've met so many amazing women.
33:11For example, you, you mentioned that you had lunch with Marina Ibrahimovic. And oh my god,
33:16you have that shutter by Abdul Nuria. Exactly. And how was it because she's such a powerful
33:23you know, artist and she talks a lot about being a woman and yeah, that book Walking Through the
33:28Doors. Yeah, it's amazing. So Marina, spending time with Marina was just incredible because
33:34she's one very powerful. She's very opinionated. And she's also like very into the way she looks.
33:41Yeah. Also, which I love because she loved me as well. Because she was just speaking and there was
33:48the artist has to look a certain way. Yeah. And everything and even now she's very particular
33:54about the outfits. Yeah, that you know, she's doing during a show made by different designers
34:01custom done for her. And not just that her whole entire philosophy about gender, sexuality,
34:08relationships. Yeah. And also like exhibitionism. Yeah. So she has all those elements. And it was
34:15wonderful. Being misunderstood. See, if you cannot understand Latin, right? Yeah. It doesn't
34:23do anything to the language. No, Latin will remain Latin. Yeah. If you cannot understand it,
34:28Latin is not going to feel bad. Of course not. Yeah. So I'm not going to feel bad. I'm not going
34:33to sit and explain everything I do. I have to lead my life. Yeah, I have to have fun. How did you
34:40arrive at this? So that's what I'm saying. I have to have fun. Yeah. Whether it's with my clothes or
34:47doing bizarre things or I have to have fun so I can put that much energy in my work.
34:54Exactly. How will I generate energy if I'm sad? Exactly. How will I give love to people if I'm
35:00sad? No, that is completely true. For me, it's about self-preservation. So that I can do whatever
35:06I want to do. Exactly. I can't be, I can't do anything till I'm not happy. And how do you choose
35:13people that you want to meet? Like, for example, Marina, for example, Anita, how do you go about
35:17collecting? Because I saw like a whole team over there. So they do go everywhere. You have Damien
35:23Hurst, you have all kinds of art over here. So how do you go about collecting and what sort of
35:29thing that you're looking for? So of course, I've been reading about all these artists,
35:35studying their work, studying their journey, their techniques. Also, I have a very specific visual. I
35:42like very powerful works. Like you see Manjeet Baba's Kali. It's a very, very powerful work.
35:50Again, it's Goddess Kali slaying the Mahisha. So a very, very powerful work. And after three walls,
35:56four walls, you have Anita's work, which is also a very powerful work. No, even the display is
36:00very disruptive. You have one thing and then you have the bust right in front. You know, there's a
36:04lot of gaze, your gaze, this, that. So there's a lot of gaze, there's a lot of powerful women,
36:10either in work or by them. We also have a Saraswati, which has been placed away from
36:18all these works. Saraswati is a very soft goddess of the arts. Yeah. And she's on a lotus. So the
36:26thing is, for me, I'm attracted to very powerful works, which create a sort of a tension in the
36:32mind. Yeah. Not, and if you cannot understand it, a tension visually. Right? Because you want to
36:39visit that work again and again. Yeah. You see, the thing is that when sometimes when you see
36:45something which is very simple, and you might think it's simple, but it's actually not. Like
36:49the Somnath horse, Peppal Walk is actually their wounds. So when you look at it, you will feel it.
36:56Yeah. So I like work which actually evoke emotion. And, of course, I don't have every work
37:03that I'd wish I would have. Yeah, there they are in others, other collections or in museums, but
37:09there's a certain aesthetic, there's a certain like quality of work or meaning of the work.
37:15And most of the arts are very political as well. It's not just political capital of the country,
37:21what else would you... Now that was another thing I wanted to ask about Delhi and Bombay. Obviously,
37:25everywhere, everybody's political and... But Delhi is a lot. It runs in our blood.
37:32You stay in a part where you see it, you feel it. It's left hand studies right here.
37:36Yes. So like I said that, you know, like politics and people in Delhi are like hand in hand. We grew
37:43up with some politicians. They were our neighbours, our kids went to school with them. So
37:48for us, it's... And then we are very, very sensitive to what is happening in the country.
37:53Yeah. We are very sensitive to all the issues because we are educated about it since,
37:57you know, we were in school. No, you have to be because there's a whole smog thing descending
38:01upon us now. We had parliament visits, we had Rajpati Bhavan visits, which were a part. We had
38:06museum visits from school, which this was all a part of our school. If not, then our grandparents
38:12took us to these places. So it was culturally being in Delhi, being a part of knowing what was
38:19happening in the country was very, very important and knowing what was happening in the country
38:23and having an opinion, which was secular, was also very important.
38:27Important in all the places.
38:29You'll never hear us saying, oh, the city is bad or that is bad or... Because we know that there's
38:36sitting in Delhi, we know what is Andhra Pradesh like, what is Maharashtra like, what is this
38:41thing. But when I go there, their knowledge of us is very, very skewed.
38:47Yeah, that is true.
38:48I personally feel that and I don't blame them for it because it's a very,
38:52they would be amazing in English literature and they would be having the best ICICI,
38:57ICICI, whatever, what is that board, CBSC and the other one?
39:01The ICSC.
39:02ICSC board, which is much tougher than ours, but their actual knowledge of what is happening in
39:06the country is very limited.
39:08And you think that comes to you because...
39:10Being in Delhi, the geographical...
39:12Of course, being in Delhi, it's perpetually, the main news would be like different parties or...
39:19Or like a Shaheen Bagh protest or like other protests.
39:22That also, because every protest that actually happens, happens around Delhi.
39:25Yeah, completely.
39:26We had some of the best, like reading columns from Shashi Tharoor.
39:30And then meeting him in person at different functions, which is just something else.
39:37I mean, meeting all these political advisors or ministers,
39:41actually meeting and interacting with them is a different level than being in another city.
39:46Also, you get to learn a lot.
39:47I lived in Bombay for a while and I just...
39:50Like my friends have gone for campaigning over the years, you know, women who are my age are now,
39:57have stood for elections, are on different posts.
40:00So, and the kids are now joining politics.
40:02So, the entire journey also teaches you a lot.
40:05Completely.
40:05And then you went to Art Mumbai and you have been going to Bombay a lot.
40:10Yes.
40:10So, I just wondered if there's a stark difference between the conversations that happen in Bombay
40:13and there's a whole different...
40:15Yes.
40:15This thing.
40:16So, I just wanted to hear from you.
40:18So, Bombay conversations are actually like, especially in the film industry,
40:22it's about whose films is being released.
40:24It's so much.
40:25Is it boring or no?
40:27And no, it's actually, it's like actually how we dissect a painting and how the artist show was.
40:32Initially, it was like, how is that person's hair made it?
40:36Yeah.
40:36Like, you know...
40:37In this conversation table.
40:38Like, no, because they said, you know, that flip has gone, like, is the scene.
40:43So, I'm like, okay.
40:45So, I do understand it's a very...
40:47Cinema is a powerful medium and they, I know very little about it.
40:52But yes, their conversations are limited to, are limited.
40:57Yes.
40:58And Art Mumbai that you just went to, I have not been there.
41:01But how is it different from the...
41:03Because Delhi is considered to be this place where all kinds of artists and, you know,
41:07there was a secular art movement, which was...
41:08So, we have, yes, there was.
41:10So, actually, Delhi benefits because we have larger spaces.
41:13Yeah.
41:14And the artists prefer to have studios here because of one, the space and second,
41:19manpower that is available.
41:20No, I also think because of the political situation as well,
41:23because you're exposed to so much more.
41:26Than cinema and industry.
41:28Art Mumbai was fantastic because it was really curated well.
41:32Yeah.
41:32The galleries had carried some of their best works.
41:36The founders, Neenal and Dinesh Bajirani, they did a fantastic job.
41:40The infrastructure was amazing.
41:42And I think both India Art Fair, which happens in Delhi and Art Mumbai,
41:48I think are actually doing fantastic for the Indian art.
41:52Okay.
41:52Indian arts, basically.
41:53And the other thing I wanted to, the last one is that
41:56there's a lot of this whole thing about not representing artists who are coming from,
42:00let's say, very disenfranchised backgrounds, right?
42:04For instance, you had this Anita Dubey, who curated that whole Kochi thing on
42:08art from the margins.
42:09And I was there at the announcement and, you know, she talked about all of that.
42:12And we went to the thing, but there's a lot of these white cube galleries,
42:16which really never gave that kind of space.
42:19And I saw that in Art Mumbai as well.
42:21I didn't see much of the work that is very, very political.
42:24I mean, there is a kind of a thing where you stay a little bit far from overtly political stuff,
42:30right?
42:30So how are you trying to change that?
42:33So the thing is that an art fair is a very commercial space.
42:38Yeah.
42:38You see, an art fair opens its doors to a very large audience.
42:44You could be a first time collector, or you could be a student who's walking in.
42:47Yeah.
42:48So, and it's also a very, it's very expensive to display there, right?
42:54But how is it going to change for the younger people?
42:56The thing is, like any other business, art world, the galleries are in a business.
43:01They, of course, they sell art and everything, but it is a business for them.
43:05They have invested money in it, invested money and time, and it is their primary business.
43:09So they have to take into account.
43:12We had developed a work like with Dhanbir Kaleka Studio.
43:16Yeah.
43:17And last year, we had shown his work, which was breadth, which was not for sale.
43:22And the work got a lot of, you know, appreciation.
43:26And Ranbir was just incredible with it.
43:28And the work is phenomenal.
43:31And then we had Mithu, who did that performance, which was actually a spin on the whole society
43:37and entertainment.
43:39And she had given the concept to me.
43:41And it was actually, it was a little satire.
43:45So wherever we can do, we do it.
43:48And as a foundation, we also like, we don't sell anything.
43:53We are not for profit.
43:54And we promote, like we put out, you know, we have a podcast.
44:00So we put out everything we can.
44:01And you have an award for young, you know, because we have an award for emerging artists,
44:06for MASH emerging artists.
44:07We have an award.
44:09We have a podcast.
44:10We show regularly at the art fair and other spaces.
44:14And I think it's, we also, the thing is showing political work is, could be helpful to one
44:23cause, but maybe not detrimental to many causes.
44:27So the thing is that we, as someone who doesn't have very, unless have very in-depth knowledge
44:32about a concept, like if I study the whole thing, see, and then I say, no, I totally
44:38believe in this.
44:39How can I promote something which is, which I don't know much about?
44:44So everybody does try to play it safe because we also feel, okay, you know, I'll have to
44:48read everything about it and then take a...
44:50And the cost might be just too high.
44:52No, and it's not about the cost being high, but also like there's always somebody's point
44:56of view, always coinciding with somebody else's point of view.
44:59So how can I take side?
45:01Either I present both the side with equal enthusiasm, and that's what we try to do
45:05sometimes when we are projecting one cause, then we always, the other side also, you know,
45:12we try to project because we don't know what is actually there.
45:18That is so many dimensions to everything.
45:19Many, many.
45:20And also another thing, what are you working on now?
45:23And you said you do 10 projects at one point in time.
45:26So what is the next project?
45:28And so we are now...
45:29Are you going to be on another show or something, you know?
45:33Yeah, hopefully.
45:35Let's see what happens.
45:36Lots of good things are coming.
45:38But we'll see what we have to do, what interests me, what I think is going to be fun, what is
45:44also like going to push me out of my boundaries, which I really like, something which I live
45:48for because then we have the India Art Fair coming up and something very exciting is happening
45:55for the India Art Fair.
45:57I might be traveling for some shoots.
46:00So lots of interesting things.
46:01You have also been working a lot of shows.
46:04Fashion designer.
46:04FDCI.
46:05I think Vaishali Shanadugle was the first one.
46:07So I worked for Vaishali.
46:09Actually, a lot of friends had been asking me, but I was like, listen, it's different
46:13to do a photo shoot.
46:14And it's different to work with models who are like 5'10 and 6 feet.
46:19They're like, don't worry, you can hold your own.
46:22But is it exciting to be there?
46:24You know, I just, I love being with the models.
46:28Yes.
46:28So beautiful.
46:29They look like swans.
46:30Yeah.
46:31They're so elegant.
46:32Very.
46:32And they're just, you know, they're just also they're very, very peaceful, some of them.
46:37Completely.
46:37I love doing it so many times that you have to.
46:40Yeah.
46:41Also, like they're very young.
46:42So they have this really freshness.
46:45Yeah.
46:45When I talk to them, it's fun.
46:47You know, there's no agenda.
46:48There's no agenda.
46:49When we are backstage, they know they're just going to meet me for that time.
46:53Yeah.
46:53So there's this fun friendship that we all are in this together and the backstage.
46:59I love the backstage because it's craziness.
47:01Like funnest place.
47:02Like things are flying, you know, something people are running.
47:06And then suddenly it comes together in this perfect thing.
47:09And you walk.
47:10So I walked for Vishali, Manisha Jaising, Manisha, Suneet Varma.
47:15Suneet Varma actually had fever.
47:16I'd just come back from Bihar.
47:18And I had got, I had got very, I had got, I was getting drenched every day in the rain there.
47:25And by the time I came back, I had 103 fever that day.
47:28And you walked 103 fever?
47:30Yeah.
47:31Because like, that also.
47:34And then I was like, yeah, we just have to do that.
47:37And but FDCI walking is fun.
47:42I hope it becomes better.
47:44Like how it used to be the fashion week.
47:47Actually, I have been telling, yes.
47:51No, but they are actually, they have a, they have a thing.
47:55But you know, the same designers you see, I think this.
47:57No, but they have younger.
47:59So they have two, three fashion week where they're showing the younger talent as well.
48:01No, they have.
48:02But the thing is, they should like have, like they should create something with very expensive
48:06to do a show, right?
48:07And a lot of people can't afford it, right?
48:09Same with galleries, right?
48:10The thing is that, you know, the population of our country is so large and the infrastructure
48:15is not expanded.
48:16So everybody wants to be in Delhi, Bombay.
48:19And spaces, we don't have spaces.
48:22People like you can help.
48:23Yes, of course.
48:25I want to.
48:26I want to be effective.
48:27I want to have, I want to have more power.
48:29Already because you are everywhere and now you have a voice in terms of like the reach.
48:34Yeah.
48:34So maybe, you know.
48:35So I try to be and I'm very, very, I'm a little like upfront, like I'm very blunt when it
48:41comes to saying that, you know, this is what we need.
48:43This is what we should.
48:44Sometimes people don't like it in that moment.
48:47But they've called me after like a year or sometimes five years and said, you know what,
48:51you said this to me.
48:52I was very hurt at that point.
48:55And you changed my life.
48:57Yeah, no, that is true.
48:58And just like, no, but thank you so much for talking to me.
49:04It was an absolute pleasure.
49:05Likewise.