En una reciente entrevista al presidente, se confirmó que Victoria Villarroel no tiene ninguna injerencia en la toma de decisiones del gobierno ni participa en las reuniones de gabinete. La trama sobre el malestar y la división de aguas en LLA y cómo sigue la crisis interna en lo más alto del Gobierno.
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00:00Victoria Villarreal has accompanied you in all these actions.
00:03Is she part of the government's daily decision-making activities?
00:06She does not have to be there either.
00:08No, she has no interest in decision-making.
00:12She has no interest in decision-making?
00:15Or she does not take part in government meetings?
00:17She does not participate in government meetings either.
00:19Victoria Villarreal?
00:21She decided not to participate.
00:23It has been a long time since she decided not to participate in government meetings.
00:28And do you have a dialogue or not?
00:32I mean, what is needed institutionally to fulfill our roles.
00:39So she doesn't participate in any decision of the government?
00:42No, because in addition, in her vision, many of the things that we do are much closer to the red circle and what she calls the political high, which we call the caste.
00:59Well, let's see, how strong Pablo, right?
01:02Yes, strong, strong, you see him angry at the president, right?
01:06What did not detonate or never, let's see, we always emphasize that one thing is to be liberal, libertarian and another thing is to be conservative.
01:12Are they two concepts?
01:14Yes, it seems to me that there, in terms of ideological delimitations, the government is very complex to classify, let's say.
01:25There are issues that are ultra-liberal, there are other issues that are more conservative.
01:29It seems to me that it is complex, right?
01:32The president moves in a range of representations, sometimes it is difficult to follow a linearity.
01:40This is a very complex relationship, it has had ups and downs, right?
01:46It has already had a very important fight, then there was a photo there in Casa Rosada, a nosebleed, right?
01:53Where, well, it seemed that things were getting better, but lately, well, the president has put Lilia Lemoyne, who has been shaking a lot against the vice president.
02:07With which there, it seems to me that there is a tension that has never been resolved.
02:13Now, honestly, I don't know what the specific reason for this statement is, but it is a very strong statement.
02:20Yes, to the question that the colleague asks about the day to day, is it true that a vice president, a vice president, has an institutional role and is not out there in the day to day?
02:30But hey, it may not convince you much.
02:31No, yes, yes, I think, because, I mean, I thought about what Cristina Fernández de Kirchner said about Alberto Fernández.
02:38In other words, the president has the pen, not the vice president, neither in the previous case nor in this case, in that it is like that.
02:46Now, it seems to me that there are issues that have to do with how the agendas are linked, right?
02:51Because there are two figures, popularly elected, because it is not the same thing that the vice elects the president.
03:04The vice is also voted by the same people who voted for the president.
03:08With which it also has a social power there, if you want, a political power.
03:13Now, if the agendas do not seek to link, do not seek to synchronize, well, these things appear, because clearly, for many sectors, the vice president or vice president has a political weight.
03:27Now, if that, if the governments fail to accommodate, but it is a problem of all governments, I would tell you, of Dualde with Menem, de la Rúa with Chacho, Cristina with Coco.
03:38It is that one checks, I say, except for the link with Sini Martínez, who was not so stormy, they came from different spaces, but it was not stormy, it was another moment in Argentina.
03:50Except for Michetti and Macri.
03:52Michetti decided not to speak ever again.
03:55Someone who withdrew from politics.
03:56Give me a little more, without going off the axis, Millet vs. Villarreal, because the last thing we had heard was that of the ham in the middle.
04:09Do you remember?
04:11And in the idea of the ham in the middle, there were like two loaves.
04:15Yes, yes, yes.
04:17Carina Millet up, Victoria Villarreal down, or up and down.
04:22And in the middle, the president.
04:23Yesterday the president also spoke of Carina.
04:26And he said this, listen to him, let's see.
04:28My sister, the supposed pastry chef, as if that were a crime, and who does not know anything about politics, in six months he formed a party.
04:45I think today the legalization of the party comes out at the national level, I understand.
04:48What do you tell me?
04:50Look where the pastry chef put us.
04:56Because if my sister ...
04:59Do you see your sister as a candidate?
05:01I don't know, it's a problem for me to talk to her.
05:03Because I, to make these kinds of predictions, I'm not sent to do it.
05:08Well, the pastry chef, the pastry chef, does Carina have real power?
05:13Yes, of course, of course she has real power.
05:16I mean, the words of the president mark that.
05:21I mean, the weight that Carina Millet's decisions have on politics, I think they have no doubt.
05:29Now, Pablo, this break between Millet and Villarreal, can it be translated in electoral terms?
05:36Or do you think that's the limit?
05:37Do you think that's the limit?
05:39Because, let's see, one could think that they are fighting, or that all the time power is pulsating through places of greater power.
05:48Now, we are on the way to an electoral year.
05:53At some point the government, the government will have to put together lists in the province of Buenos Aires, in the city.
05:59Well, they talk about an army at the national level.
06:02Can you imagine that this discussion, Millet and Villarreal, is translated into electoral terms?
06:07And if that's the case, will the vice president continue to build an independent path?
06:13It could be, it could be a possibility.
06:15I think that sometimes it's hard for me to understand a little bit why this fight.
06:20Because if you look at this year, right?
06:23Since it was assumed, I mean, since it won so far.
06:26Millet went through a moment of a lot of enthusiasm at the beginning, a plateau that made him go down.
06:31And now the president is in a good moment.
06:34Because he has resumed confidence rates, it seems, for a sector, right?
06:41Especially the soft core, because there is an opposing core.
06:44When they measure it, they see a recovery even in the image and in the assessment of management.
06:48Yes, in the assessment of management and especially in this, right?
06:50That perhaps the idea begins to appear that the president is finding his way, right?
06:55Much in the plane of expectations.
06:57Obviously, in the plane of reality, no.
07:00There is a recognition that the situation is bad, that it is still bad.
07:03But in the plane of expectations, there is more hope, expectations.
07:09Now, I think that ...
07:12I ask the production to prepare a cut there of how the president self-evaluates and what he perceives of this year.
07:19And above all, Facundo, of something that we criticized.
07:22We criticized it because we saw that it was a deficit, that it was political negotiation.
07:25And today the government ...
07:27The president is much more political.
07:29Much more political, the government ...
07:31I don't know about the president, because I don't quite understand these issues.
07:36But I see the government.
07:38Well, he was able to link, to put two or almost three Peronist governors into the government.
07:46He raised two very sensitive issues, which are the vetoes.
07:51One can be in favor of the vetoes.
07:53The government raised them and held them politically.
07:57I agree with Pablo that one might think that he dominated and a large part of the social conflict on the street.
08:04The conflict with airlines ended.
08:07One has the perception that there are no more pickets.
08:10That is what pushes the president to self-evaluate.
08:14Listen to how he self-evaluates.
08:16We have a producer here, Juan Pizunpano, he is still there, Juan Pizunpano,
08:19who said, it is not worth self-evaluating.
08:22When we worked at the time of Documentos America, with our dear Aria, who is our producer today,
08:27it is not worth self-evaluating.
08:29My law is self-evaluation. Listen to him.
08:32We are going to an Argentina that entered the most virtuous path in its history.
08:40We are making the best government in history.
08:43Because today we took several bodies from the government of Menem.
08:46So what I have to say to the people is that they should bet on the country
08:51because this has never been seen in the history of Argentina and it was not seen in the world either.
08:56Today we are, everyone shows us admiration.
09:00So what do I have to tell you?
09:03Look, I don't know what the future will be like, but the only thing I can tell you is that it will be much better.
09:09Because we are making Argentina great again.
09:12Well, there, some consultant told him to start talking about the future.
09:18Because the future has already arrived, as the song of Los Redondos says.
09:22Is it worth self-evaluating? It's worth it, right?
09:25I agree, I know more than your producer.
09:29But it seems to me that the president feels strong, he has the backing of the economic power,
09:34he has the backing of big businessmen.
09:36It seems to me that what is missing is a bit of this, right?
09:38The people below, because the micro does not end up convincing.
09:44There was once a dissociation, because the president talks about artificial intelligence.
09:49The president takes pictures with Trump, he has a link with Elon Musk.
09:53Now prepare for Elon Musk.
09:55Do you see a divorce? I say this with absolute respect.
09:58If I go and ask in some places where the situation is very complicated for Elon Musk,
10:04they tell me, you don't even know who he is.
10:05Or you don't care who he is.
10:07Because the people, the audience, the insertion of X in the audience,
10:14is not what we sometimes think.
10:16No, no, no. In general, there are different levels, right?
10:21Different plans on social networks, but hey, that's another discussion.
10:25I think there is a recognition that the situation is not good.
10:27Even if the president says that from 17,000 to 2,000, there is inflation,
10:35there is a problem with prices.
10:37There is still recognition that there are problems with prices.
10:40There are problems with income.
10:42The situation, I mean, when one asks about the economic situation,
10:48it is still mostly negative.
10:51So there was a divorce, a dissociation between that macro.
10:54Look, there you have it.
10:56Production tells me that there is another moment where the president talks about Elon Musk
11:01and continues to self-log.
11:03Let's see, let's listen to it.
11:05I was very clear in my government program.
11:08In terms of economics, notice that I was going with a chainsaw.
11:13A model that Elon Musk is copying.
11:18Elon Musk copied your chainsaw?
11:20In fact, I interact with him and with Kavec.
11:23I don't know the name well now.
11:25Let's say, because there is no one with whom I interact.
11:28I interact with him.
11:30And let's say, with the Sturzenegger model to deregulate.
11:34Do you talk to him on WhatsApp often?
11:36It's not because of WhatsApp.
11:38We communicate directly via Twitter.
11:41Yes, because he has it all the time.
11:45I was looking for how to say chainsaw in English.
11:49I don't have much vocabulary in English because I haven't read much in English.
11:55And they say that you have to read in English.
11:57How will you say chainsaw?
11:59Will you write to Milley privately from Instagram?
12:01Or from Twitter?
12:03No, from Twitter, not from Instagram.
12:05Because Instagram is meta.
12:07Chainsaw, the producer tells me.
12:09It seems like a word in Chinese.
12:11Let's not mix everything.
12:13Because there is also that.
12:14There is a Milley playing an international match.
12:17Still quite dissociated from what you raise as the pocket of the people.
12:21The reality of the people.
12:23There is a tension.
12:25Now, that tension contains that.
12:28And it also contains that there is a sector, a sector of society,
12:31that has expectations.
12:33This that Milley says.
12:35We raise the chainsaw.
12:37And that this plan of the chainsaw, the adjustment,
12:39leads to a better place of economic prosperity.
12:42This in the plan of understanding
12:45that there is an opposing core to the government,
12:48which is around 45.
12:50There is an official core that is close to 40.
12:53And there in the middle there is a sector that oscillates a lot.
12:57Above all, it is this middle sector that moves a little
13:02when it goes up and when it goes down.
13:04Because the other two are much more stable.
13:08Let's say, right?
13:10I recently raised in an editorial on the radio, Pablo.
13:13What is the true Milley?
13:15The one that shows signs.
13:17I agree with that look that you have,
13:20that he is doing the career of the political leader
13:24for a year and he is deploying some.
13:26Now, what is the true?
13:28The one that shows broad signs of political pragmatism
13:33going to the summit of the G20,
13:36organized by Lula, who was Satan until recently.
13:40Already going.
13:42Then, greeting him.
13:44We do the television and observe the gesture,
13:47the face, the woman of the first lady of Brazil.
13:50But all that for the tribune, the president, the power.
13:53Little matters.
13:55Then taking a picture with Xi Jinping.
13:58That is, apart from the photo with Xi Jinping,
14:02taking out Lula's collar.
14:03Let's put it this way.
14:05Because he closes a deal, he does business with Lula.
14:09He ends up selling him energy or, well,
14:13a projection of many millions of dollars.
14:16He does business with Xi Jinping.
14:19Look, look, Milley is happier with Xi Jinping
14:23than Xi Jinping with Milley.
14:25But it's in hand, right?
14:27It's in hand.
14:29And at 24 hours of this Milley deploying,
14:31becoming a pragmatic leader,
14:35he feels, you see, he confesses that at noon he tweets
14:41and starts eating.
14:43You see, he says that eating is a mess.
14:46And that if it were for him, he would take,
14:49he would eat a pill, a pill.
14:51And then he comes and shoots the journalists.
14:55He fights with Marcelo Longobardi and treats him badly.
14:58Well, he puts us all in the same bag and makes a mess.
15:03What is Milley, the real one?
15:05They are both, both.
15:07It seems to me that there is a pragmatic Milley,
15:10which also seems to me that it has a cause.
15:16There are some sectors that accommodate it, it seems to me, right?
15:19In the sense of saying, look, everything is fine with the cultural battle,
15:23but you have to go to G20.
15:24You have to go.
15:26You have to sign the document.
15:28You can't go to China, no matter how much you consider that ...
15:32Who orders there?
15:34Well, this is good that you are saying, Pablo.
15:36You say that there is one who writes him a notebook that says,
15:40I broke with Argentina.
15:42Let's see, let's see.
15:44And there are others who say, we don't fuck with certain markets.
15:47This, I say, as an analysis, as an analysis.
15:49You say, well, does the economic power care about the isolation
15:52of Argentina from the world?
15:54No.
15:56And no.
15:58Does the economic power care that Argentina does not have commercial relations with China?
16:03And no.
16:05And he goes to ask Alicampo to sell him meat, to sell him wheat, to sell him grains.
16:08So there, I mean, Milley relies a lot on that sector.
16:11For him, it is the engine of this model.
16:14So he can't go against that either.
16:17As an analysis, I say, no, then we'll have to see.
16:19Maybe it is a reflection of the president himself.
16:22And it doesn't matter.
16:24I say, no, I don't say.
16:26Of course.
16:28And this is very good, as you raise it, Pablo.
16:30And does the real economic power care?
16:32Because, let's see, one thing is, we are going to tear down the social action building
16:36where Vita's face is.
16:38We are going to get everything out.
16:40Wherever Nestor Kirchner says, we get absolutely everything out.
16:43That's like a facet.
16:45Now, does the real economic power have a link between the president and the vice president?
16:49What is the institutionality of the country?
16:51A country that has to give you legal security.
16:54If you want to come here with a lot of money,
16:56you come with the suitcase full of millions of dollars to invest in any resource, I don't know, lithium.
17:03You are not interested in knowing that you are weak in Parliament,
17:06that you are fighting with your opposing allies,
17:10that you don't get the quorum for a clean card law because you get up one or the other.
17:15I say, are there institutional issues that also look from the outside?
17:17No, that from the outside.
17:20I think that is a risk that my law assumes in the fight with Villarroel.
17:26Now, it is also true that we are going to an election
17:30where the government can add a large number of legislators, let's say,
17:36and solve part of that problem.
17:38Who can add 40, 50 more?
17:40I don't know the numbers.
17:42I don't know the numbers, but when you look at the intention of voting today
17:48for freedom of movement at the national level, or in different provinces,
17:52where the government last year did not want to play that election.
17:56Let's remember that the president played in two or three provinces, nothing more,
18:00and it did not go so well.
18:02He played in Tucumán, he played in Tierra del Fuego, and I don't remember which other.
18:05After that, he did not want to carry out an electoral process in the anticipated provinces.
18:12Today, he does need that.
18:15That would have given him, perhaps, well, it is another dynamic.
18:18The government came with another projection in electoral terms.
18:23It is another scenario today.
18:25Today, the government can get 30 points and that would generate a very large number of legislators.
18:32And I also think that the discussion with Cristina Fernández de Kirchner
18:36seeks to break the electoral base of radicalism and pro-electoralism.
18:40Look, this is another scenario.
18:42And the facet, perhaps, more local.
18:45Let's see, look at it.
18:47What do you have to do with the Vita building?
18:49The social action building.
18:51Are you going to demolish it?
18:53Look, that, let's say, we have to see, let's say,
18:56you can't demolish a building just because.
18:59No, obviously.
19:01Now, if you ask me,
19:03because, let's say,
19:05what have we done that no one did?
19:08We took out all the political representations that were in the buildings.
19:15So, let's say,
19:17and that will have to do with the convenience of whether that building should continue or not.
19:23That is, regardless of how it is decorated.
19:26That, by the way, the decoration does not…
19:29Do you like the decoration?
19:31It seems to me that the public offices
19:35would have to be accepting of these things.
19:38That is, because…
19:40You can take out the decoration and not touch the building, right?
19:43I don't know if it is functionally convenient to take out the building or not.
19:47You have to ask someone who knows about urban issues
19:50and you have to see the needs of the ministry
19:53or what can be done with that.
19:57But what I don't like,
19:59what I don't like
20:02is that they are used as a party symbol.
20:06That's not right.
20:08Well, what you say is very clear.
20:10When I saw the image of the building,
20:13I imagined, I fantasized forward
20:16with a moment where…
20:19Because that is a very large building.
20:21You have to knock it down.
20:23It's a huge building.
20:25I don't know how that fits in the world.
20:28Well, I don't know.
20:30I think it is part of that set of secondary stories
20:35that the cultural battle has.
20:38There are others that are more important, let's say, right?
20:41The adjustment, the leftists, the Kuks.
20:44I think that has a content
20:47and this other one seems to me to be part of a more secondary story
20:52that is, well, to put more noise, more confusion.
20:55Can you imagine how they are going to dynamite that?
20:59And well, a mobile phone at 11 in the morning.
21:02And below there is a subway.
21:04Well, it's fine, it's fine, but it's clear.