Stephen Espinoza ran Showtime Sports and oversaw the two biggest PPV boxing matches ever -- Floyd Mayweather vs. Manny Pacquiao and Floyd vs. Conor McGregor -- so, we asked the former C-suite exec how much money Jake Paul and Mike Tyson would earn Friday night.
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00:00Well, usually when you're looking at a fight this big, we're talking, at least in the U.S.,
00:06pay-per-views.
00:07So everyone's saying, well, how many pay-per-view buys can it do?
00:10How much money can it generate?
00:12This is a different business model.
00:14Netflix has done a worldwide buyout.
00:16They paid for the fight.
00:18They're not looking to generate pay-per-view buys.
00:20They're looking to keep subscribers happy and to maybe attract a few new ones.
00:26So there's a different structure here.
00:28But because there's not the pay-per-view price tag attached, and because it's literally
00:34a simultaneous worldwide live exhibit, then there's the potential that this could be the
00:41most watched fight ever.
00:43I mean, the audience potential is huge simply because people are not going to be dissuaded
00:48by $75 pay-per-view.
00:52And the fact that certainly in the U.S. and most other major technological countries,
00:59the penetration of Netflix is so high.
01:03How does Netflix then make money, Stephen?
01:05Or they don't have the pay-per-view money to supplement the fighters' purses and whatnot.
01:10How do they make money?
01:11Or is it just they've got, obviously, a tremendous amount of cash, and they're saying, hey,
01:15we'll put this on.
01:16We'll pay the salaries of the fighters.
01:18And hopefully we'll add some subscribers, ultimately.
01:21Well, you know, Netflix is certainly doing extremely well.
01:28And it's gotten to a level where, certainly in the U.S. and in certain other territories,
01:32you begin to ask, how many more subscribers can you add?
01:37So at this point, maybe it's about adding subscribers, and maybe the last few holdouts
01:43who do not have Netflix are going to say, OK, now I'll sign up.
01:47But more likely, this is about extending the brand, experimenting with live programming,
01:53which has somewhat been limited up to this point, and just doing new, innovative, exciting
02:00things for their subscribers, making people feel good about their Netflix subscription.
02:06So I mean, does this have a potential to, and I know things are obviously changing in
02:12a big way, but does this have a potential, Stephen, to just sort of upend the entire
02:17industry?
02:18And I mean, could we see, then, live sports on Netflix, on some of the other leaders in
02:23the streaming world?
02:24You know, Netflix has been really, really smart and very strategic about getting into
02:29live sports.
02:30And what they've avoided, and they've said this very publicly, is paying big rights fees,
02:35you know, paying billions of dollars to the NFL, to the NBA.
02:39They certainly have the financial capacity to do that, but they've decided that's not,
02:45it's not smart.
02:46So what they've done instead is they've really created their own special events.
02:51They've done it in tennis, they've done it in golf, you know, they've done now this particular
02:56one-off.
02:58So rather than paying a bunch of money to have the rights and spending billions of dollars
03:03to be able to show some NFL games, they said, look, we'll just go create our own events.
03:09And look, whether that's a door to then get into more traditional sports, as one question,
03:15or maybe they're just going to say, look, we're happy doing these events, you know,
03:19finding the two best tennis players in the world and putting them on Netflix, finding
03:23these intriguing once-in-a-lifetime boxing matches and put them there, a lot remains
03:29to be seen with the Netflix sports business model.
03:34You've obviously heard, Steven, about the tremendous paydays that guys like Floyd Mayweather
03:39and Conor and Manny Pacquiao that they received.
03:43I know it's a guessing game here.
03:46What do you think these guys, Mike and Jake, are making for this fight when it's all said
03:51and done?
03:52You know, I think it's realistic to expect that both of them will each make 30 to 40
03:58million each, you know, and certainly more than that.
04:02The gate will very likely set a record for AT&T Stadium.
04:07It is, you know, previously the biggest combat sports gate there was $9 million.
04:13It looks like this event is going to do somewhere around $14 to $15 million.
04:19And there's obviously a healthy Netflix license fee that goes into the pot to help pay the
04:24fighters and not just the two main ones, but everyone underneath.
04:28And, you know, from the Netflix perspective, though, look, they're everywhere.
04:33It's not as if they're sort of resting because it's not a pay-per-view.
04:37You know, you open your Uber app, you know, and there's a Jake Paul, Mike Tyson ad everywhere
04:43you go.
04:44They've got life-size figures in, you know, in Manhattan on the streets.
04:47So they've really pulled up all the stops and they're taking this very seriously and
04:52doing a ton of marketing for it.
04:54Right.
04:55They've got the companion show to leading up to the fight.
04:57Like obviously you had done so many times with your big fights and I mean, it's I think
05:03it's a lot of fun for the fans.
05:04Well, how do you feel about it, Stephen?
05:05I do understand, too, that there are people who are purists who say, hey, I don't I don't
05:10like this.
05:11It's a it's a guy and you're 60 year old Mike Tyson fighting.
05:13It's a spectacle.
05:14How do you feel as a guy who has put on some real serious fights throughout the course
05:20of your career?
05:21Feel about this.
05:22Well, I spent, you know, almost 12 years as Mike Tyson's attorney.
05:25I've done several Jake Paul fights.
05:28I have a lot of affection for both of them, particularly Mike.
05:32You know, I've known him for 25 years and on a personal level, look, I am a little concerned
05:38about the risks of a 58 year old getting in the ring.
05:42But there are steps that have been taken to at least reduce the risk.
05:47You know, it's two minute rounds.
05:49They're using bigger than usual gloves, which means more padding, which, you know, theoretically
05:55less danger of a serious injury.
05:58But it's still a contact sport and it's still combat sports with a 58 year old.
06:03Having said that, you know, that risk is there throughout the sport for young guys and for
06:09older guys.
06:10And, you know, I think in this in this context, I think I can live with it.
06:16You know, I know Mike takes his health very seriously.
06:19I understand the criticism, but it's not as if Mike is coming back as a 58 year old to
06:25be an active boxer several times a year.
06:28This is sort of a one one off event.
06:31I think they're doing it safely.
06:33And it certainly has generated a lot of excitement, given the stature of these two personalities.
06:38And 30, 40 million bucks isn't too bad either to leave with Friday night.
06:44You would be probably the only guy, Steven, in the boxing world, at least have worked
06:47with both of these guys.
06:50I think so.
06:51I would.
06:52I think I could.
06:53Let me take a minute.
06:55Yes, I believe I'm the only one to have organized fights for each of Mike Tyson and for Jake
07:01Paul.
07:02I have a lot of affection for Mike.
07:04What he's been through, the way he's fought back, he's reinvented himself.
07:08He went from the baddest man in the planet and one of the most recognizable faces on
07:13the planet in the 80s.
07:15And now here it is where in 2024, he's still relevant.
07:20He's still one of the most intriguing, most recognized people on the planet.
07:26Jake is a force in his own right.
07:29It's look, the closest thing that we've seen lately with these two kinds of personalities
07:33in a combat event was Floyd Mayweather versus Conor McGregor or Floyd Mayweather versus
07:39Logan.
07:40And those were both massive events.
07:42One of them, the Floyd and Conor fight being record breaking.
07:46So I think this is something that generated a ton of excitement.
07:51And there's going to be a lot of interest on this on Friday night in the arena and at
07:55home.
07:56You know, look, people ask me all the time, you know, what what do you think is going
07:59to happen?
08:00Like you've got a chance.
08:01You've got a young guy.
08:02You've got an older guy, a very experienced boxer, not experienced.
08:06Here's the analogy.
08:08Michael Jordan is 61 years old.
08:11I will still if I'm playing pickup basketball in the gym or even setting up a semi pro team
08:17or even a pro team, I would still take Michael Jordan over a lot of guys, even very good
08:22college players.
08:24So the instincts are there.
08:25Now, having said that, Jake has come a long way in his 11 fights.
08:30And one thing about boxing, nobody knows anything.
08:32You know, if someone tells you they know how this fight is going to happen, they're lying
08:35because this is something.
08:38But look, I have a lot of affection for both guys.
08:40Mike and I go back a long, long way.
08:43But I will say this about Jake or all the the controversy, all of the the hype, all
08:49of the the persona that he's created in my 25 years in boxing.
08:55There's only one fighter who has sent me a handwritten thank you note with a sort of
09:01gift package after a promotion.
09:04And that's Jake Paul.
09:06The first fight we did together, I got a package at home with a bunch of problem child
09:11merchandise, a handwritten thank you note from Jake.
09:16So, you know, regardless of whether you like his public persona or the controversy in my
09:21book, he's a great kid.
09:23He's got a big heart.
09:25He's good for the sport of boxing.
09:27And I'm hoping that both of them come through in an entertaining fight and go home healthy.