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00:00I spent a lot of my childhood in the backseat of a car, just driving from town to town as
00:08my dad would wrestle.
00:09So it was challenging as a kid to constantly be moving, not having that stability, not
00:14having roots, having to make new friends.
00:17I was an only child.
00:21I believe that, oh, work begets work, and you've got to make hay while the sun is out.
00:30Now I've reached a point in my life where, yes, you've got to make hay when the sun is
00:34out.
00:35However, I want to make sure that the hay I make is the hay that I love to make.
00:40So where are we right now?
00:42My sanctuary.
00:43You know how you need those places to unplug?
00:45If you were to look at your professional life, I'd be like, oh, that guy doesn't unplug.
00:59I look what I look like, I am what I am.
01:03There is no, oh, rock is just going to disappear, you know what I mean?
01:07Yeah, who is that guy over there?
01:10But yeah, I need this kind of place.
01:13It's so nice to come and unplug and reset and really to see no one, you know, because
01:17I feel like the moment I walk out the door, that's when the whirlwind starts, kicks up.
01:22Are you good at seeing people?
01:24Oh, yeah.
01:25Yeah, for sure.
01:26Like, am I an asshole?
01:28You mean like...
01:37Peaceful spot.
01:38I'm glad you're here, man.
01:40You know, I don't have anybody ever come out.
01:43I'm honored.
01:47Do you know how to work the pole?
01:49I think, I think I know how to work the pole.
01:50Flip the baler, right?
01:51Yeah, you got it.
01:52Open the bale, right?
01:55You got it.
01:56So open the bale.
01:57Open the bale.
01:58There you go.
01:59And just toss it out, right?
02:00Toss it out.
02:01Boom.
02:02Oh, perfect.
02:03Yes.
02:04What do you like about fishing?
02:06The calmness of it.
02:07And I also like the strategy of it.
02:09You know, when you try to figure out what lure to use, what time of day it is, what
02:12the weather's looking like, if it's overcast.
02:16Also, it was the thing that I was able to do with my old man.
02:23One of the things that we would do to spend time together, which wasn't a lot of stuff,
02:30but fishing was one of them.
02:32Are those fond memories?
02:33Oh, yeah.
02:34Yeah.
02:35My dad, yeah, for sure.
02:36Where would you guys fish?
02:37We'd fish all over the place.
02:38My dad was a pro wrestler.
02:42And back in the 70s and 80s, when wrestling wasn't as globalized or as monopolized as
02:48it is today, there were these little promotions and fiefdoms all around the country.
02:55So we would stay in a city and in a town for maybe a year where he would wrestle locally
03:01and then pick up and move again.
03:03So to answer your question directly, we would fish all the time, just on the road.
03:08I spent a lot of my childhood in the backseat of the car going from town to town as he wrestled.
03:15And we'd always carry fishing poles in the trunk.
03:17And as we're rolling along the highway, if we saw a body of water somewhere, he'd be
03:23like, hey, let's stop and fish.
03:25What was that like for you, just being somewhere new all the time?
03:36It was challenging.
03:37As a kid growing up, moving every year, year and a half, at that time in pro wrestling
03:42in the 80s and 70s, you had about a year, year and a half run in whatever wrestling
03:47promotion you were in.
03:48And then you hit the road and you go to another state.
03:51And that's what we did.
03:53See if you can cast it right over there.
03:55Yeah, like right underneath that.
03:56Yeah.
03:57Yeah.
03:58Okay.
03:59Watch this.
04:00Oh!
04:01Look out!
04:02Let me see.
04:03I literally got to walk and go get that.
04:06Yeah.
04:07I got it.
04:08Oh, look at that.
04:09All right.
04:10No, no, no.
04:11Hold on.
04:12My pride is wounded now.
04:13We got to go back.
04:14You got to.
04:15You got to.
04:16We got to do it.
04:17And let it go sooner.
04:18Boom.
04:19There you go.
04:20Perfect.
04:21Nice.
04:23I can see why your kids are good at this.
04:24The instruction's immaculate.
04:26Thank you, sir.
04:27What was your father like as a teacher?
04:32It was tough love with him.
04:35Very little patience with shit like one of these guys.
04:38And he came up in an era where he had to fight for everything black pro wrestler at that
04:44time in the 60s and 70s, mainly throughout the South.
04:47So, you know, you can imagine not only in the South, but then pro wrestling.
04:52And at that time, that crowd, that pro wrestling crowd was not what it is today.
04:57Today, it's very diverse.
04:58Right.
04:59Back then, pro wrestling.
05:00Super white.
05:01Super white.
05:02Yeah.
05:03Super white.
05:04Super white.
05:05So he, very little patience.
05:08Nice, Cass.
05:11There we go.
05:12Very little patience.
05:13Very little patience, but raised me with a tough hand, physical.
05:17Not, didn't beat my ass or anything like that, but just our bonding was, at a very young
05:23age, was you could come to the gym with me at five and six years old, but you just got
05:28to sit.
05:29Right.
05:30So I just sat in the gym and just watched him and his, you know, his wrestler workout
05:35buddies just work out.
05:36And then, but six, seven, eight, what he would do, then after he was done working out, he
05:42would take me on the wrestling mats at the gym.
05:45Because usually he was at a YMCA or a boys club or something like that.
05:48And that's when he would, he beat my ass that way, in terms of teaching me wrestling, basics
05:56and things like that.
06:01I think the connective tissue between my childhood growing up and what I do today is performing
06:08for sure, watching my dad perform and just being around an audience, even if it was a
06:13small audience at that time.
06:15But also, I think just growing up in the way that I did and having to grow up very fast.
06:21By the time I hit 13, 14, 15, a lot of shit went down in my life.
06:29It's interesting that you keep saying 13, because that's the age that your dad left
06:34home too, right?
06:35That he was kind of thrown out of his house by his mother, right?
06:39Yes.
06:40You've talked about this.
06:41It's interesting that you also associate 13 with a...
06:45Yeah, with incredible, I think, challenge and discomfort at that time.
06:49My dad, yes, you did your research.
06:51Thank you for saying that.
06:52So you have an awesome relationship with your dad, which I love, by the way.
06:56I told you that when we were fishing.
06:57I'm like, dude, that's so good.
06:59When you're thrown out at 13 and your mom picks her boyfriend over you,
07:06that's a hard place to come back from.
07:09And that will inform how you love people and what you care for in life
07:16and how you care about people.
07:17So I was really fucked up.
07:19That really damaged my dad.
07:21So his limited capacity to love is what raised me.
07:26How do you think he felt about your success,
07:29given that you went into his business?
07:33I don't think he liked it.
07:34Really?
07:35No.
07:36No.
07:37No, but that's okay.
07:38Yeah.
07:39Sure.
07:40It's okay because contextually, he was kicked out at 13.
07:48That informed how he loved.
07:51That informed his empathy, his capacity, all these things.
07:54I didn't realize that until much later.
07:56So we fought.
07:57He didn't want me to get into it.
07:58Then when I got into it, things were different,
08:00and then I wound up having the career that I had.
08:04He was proud, but he also wrestled with a lot of my success,
08:08and I know that as his son.
08:11And that's okay because of his capacity.
08:16A lot of people would be angrier than you seem to be.
08:19It's different, though, Zach, because my dad, you know,
08:22he's walking in the clouds now, and I think when he was around,
08:27my perspective on this was different,
08:29and we had still a contentious kind of complicated relationship when he was alive.
08:35And it would be loving, it would be complicated.
08:39Loving, complicated.
08:41It would vacillate back and forth all the time.
08:43So when he dies suddenly,
08:49Four years ago, yeah.
08:50Four years ago, and you don't get a chance to say goodbye,
08:52you don't get a chance to write the shit that you want to write,
08:56meaning make it right.
08:59You look at things differently now.
09:01It's like anybody who loses somebody, and you're like,
09:03man, you know, the shit I used to be upset about is really not that important.
09:07So while you still have your dad around who is retiring now,
09:12he's going to love seeing this.
09:17He's going to have a great career in medicine.
09:22You know, take advantage of that time.
09:24What do you feel you inherited from him, for good or for bad?
09:28Sure.
09:29One of the most important things that I learned from my dad
09:32is that regardless of your circumstances,
09:35even if things are fucked up around you,
09:38you can change that by going to work.
09:46Hold on.
09:47Let me see that, Zach.
09:50Let me see that one.
09:52I think there's something over there.
10:01Let me see.
10:14You always throw them back?
10:15I do.
10:16You've never been like, it's trout for dinner?
10:19There is trout in here, though, but no.
10:24I love this.
10:25I feel like the competitive mindset is coming out.
10:27It is.
10:29All right, one more.
10:31Two more.
10:35I believe.
10:36Let's go.
10:37You believe.
10:39All right, last cast.
10:45Is this pride?
10:46Let's call it.
10:47Competitiveness?
10:48No, no, no.
10:49Let's call it.
10:50Earlier I was asking if you were comfortable doing nothing
10:53because I think the default is so often the other way.
10:56Like in what way, Zach?
10:57Like the default goes the other way?
10:59Like in two movies coming out this fall, right?
11:01Yeah.
11:02A movie called Red One, Moana Two.
11:04Just finished shooting a movie called Smashing Machine.
11:07Yeah.
11:08I can't even list all your businesses.
11:10You have many businesses.
11:11Kids to raise.
11:12Kids to raise.
11:13And I'm like, this guy's default is 100 miles an hour.
11:17You know, we're all busy.
11:18We're all on this treadmill that just keeps rolling and rolling.
11:22We all have that version of push and pull energy where people want stuff,
11:26they need answers from you, they want stuff from you.
11:29Any opportunity that I get to come here to the farm, man, I take it.
11:34But you're in a position, if you wanted to,
11:36you could slow it down professionally.
11:37Yes.
11:38But you don't.
11:39Why not?
11:41Because I love to work.
11:43Right?
11:44So I feel like that's a thing too.
11:46Like I have a,
11:52it's an addiction.
11:54Not the addiction, oh, I just have to be moving and have to do something
11:58and have to work.
11:59But the addiction is I want to do stuff that I love to do.
12:03Now, years ago, when I reached my second level, third level of life,
12:07fourth level when still trying to figure shit out as men,
12:10I believe that, oh, work begets work,
12:12and you got to make hay while the sun is out.
12:16I think you heard that phrase.
12:17But now I've reached a point in my life where, yes,
12:19you got to make hay when the sun is out.
12:21However, I want to make sure that the hay I make is the hay that I love to make.
12:25So you feel like the choices now are different because of that?
12:29Like what's an example of that?
12:31In what way?
12:32Well, we'll say 10 years ago, right when I hit my fourth level of life,
12:38and I thought, okay, well, not only does work beget work, but let's,
12:45how much work could I do that would have the greatest impact?
12:50And I found myself being in a position where, with all my studio partners,
12:55I would back myself into a date.
12:58So Christmas, X year, year and a half, two years before that, there's our date.
13:04Now here comes the film.
13:05Now we work backwards from there.
13:07And I found myself doing that for years, actually.
13:11And it worked and it served me back then because it helped build my career,
13:14and I'm grateful for that.
13:16So these days, there is no backing into a date.
13:20That shit is gone.
13:22There's no more backing into a date.
13:24Now it's, well, let's back into the project that I love to do.
13:28Moana, that universe, to help build that universe, live-action animation,
13:33Moana 2, live-action Moana, Smashing Machine, for example.
13:38These are all projects that I, Red 1, that I want to do and that I love to do.
13:42So let's back into projects that I love doing.
13:45Let's start there.
13:46Red 1 and Moana 2.
13:49Different films, but I would say both fall into the category of big,
13:54crowd-pleasing films, right?
13:56Kind of been a lane of yours.
13:58Do you think that's fair to say?
14:00Yes.
14:01Yeah.
14:02My first question is, what draws you to that type of filmmaking?
14:05The thing where it's like, we're going to make this for as many people as we can.
14:10Before I got to the WWE, I wrestled in a small wrestling company called the USWA,
14:16and it was based out of Tennessee.
14:19I lived in Memphis.
14:20Those were the days where I was making $40 per match wrestling in flea markets,
14:24used car dealerships in the parking lot, but guaranteed $40.
14:28Right.
14:29Living in Waffle House, I ate Waffle House three times a day.
14:33But the reason why I bring that up is because what you learn there
14:37in cutting your teeth in that world of pro wrestling at that level
14:41is to send everybody home happy.
14:43Now keep in mind, Zach, reaching as many people as possible back then was 100 people.
14:47Right.
14:48150 people.
14:49Right.
14:50So you take that mentality and you apply it.
14:53When I got into the business of Hollywood and moviemaking,
14:55it's like, okay, well, what kind of movies do I want to make?
14:58I want to make movies that hopefully are good, that don't suck,
15:01but also reach as many people as possible.
15:04So that mentality.
15:07I think I read somewhere that this pond is stocked by a university biologist.
15:11Yeah.
15:12That's some real rich guy shit right there.
15:15It's cool shit.
15:17Hold on one second.
15:18Hold on.
15:19Let me fix this.
15:20Oh.
15:21All right.
15:22Hold on.
15:23When I first got the property, it wasn't even stocked.
15:25It just had a bunch of catfish in it,
15:27and I wanted to really turn it into a really cool ecosystem.
15:31So instead of just calling up a local spot and say,
15:35hey, can you dump a bunch of fish in here?
15:37I thought, well, it's a beautiful piece of water,
15:40so let me call the local university and see if they have any kind of program.
15:44Luckily, they do.
15:45The University of Virginia, they have a biology program where they come out,
15:49they measure the oxygen, the depth, everything here.
15:53So we slowly built up this ecosystem in here.
15:56It's cool shit.
15:58You say rich guy shit.
15:59You say rich guy shit.
16:00I say.
16:04But you're right.
16:05This is a shit I could not do when I had seven bucks.
16:07Did you get a fish?
16:08Did I get a fish?
16:10Did I get a fish?
16:11Almost.
16:12No, I got a stick.
16:13I got a stick.
16:18The movie you just finished shooting, Smashing Machine,
16:21a very different type of film.
16:23It's based on an amazing documentary by a guy named Mark Kerr.
16:26Yes.
16:27He's a firefighter, struggled with addiction, depression,
16:30really interesting guy, at least from what I've seen.
16:33Very, yes.
16:34Did that feel like a different kind of film for you?
16:36You know, A24 movie, Benny Safdie,
16:38did that feel like a different kind of project?
16:41A complete right turn.
16:45Right turn, left turn, a place in space that I had not ever been in before.
16:50I've done the big films.
16:51I'm grateful for the big films.
16:53And there's still a place for the big films.
16:56I want to reach as many people as possible globally,
16:59but also, in a way, I got bit again.
17:04So the first time I got bit was in Morocco, the Sahara Desert, on Mummy 2.
17:09Stephen Sommers was directing, Brandon Fraser, Rachel Weisz.
17:13That was my first role ever in Hollywood, ever.
17:16Stepped on set, he yells action.
17:19When he yelled cut, I know it sounds corny,
17:23I was like, holy shit, this is what I want to do.
17:26I'm bit.
17:27Years later, I got bit again, and what I mean by that is,
17:32I think to be able to do something where I could really sink my teeth into material,
17:37and I can jump off a cliff,
17:40and I could be scared to do it.
17:44Sounds like you were scared to do it.
17:46I was terrified.
17:47Yeah, wow.
17:48Yeah, I was, because this is, it's new material, it's Benny Safdie,
17:52it's A24, it's Emily Blunt, who is one of my best friends,
17:58but still she's one of the greatest of our generation,
18:01and I knew that this was also an opportunity for me to disappear into a character with prosthetics,
18:07and also play somebody who is still alive,
18:10and who has gone through the battles and wars of life,
18:14not only in the octagon and in the cages,
18:16but also, as you talked about, about addiction, about failure,
18:20about loss, and mental health struggle,
18:23and that's the bug that I got bit by in thinking,
18:28oh, well, this is what I want to do.
18:30So you think it will change things going forward?
18:32A hundred percent.
18:33Really?
18:34Yes. Now, not to say that, oh, there's no more big movies,
18:37because the big movies are fun, and there's a place for them in our business,
18:40but there's also a place for me in my career where,
18:44you know, from the moment I walk out of my house, I can't hide.
18:48But in a way, when I could disappear in a movie like Smashing Machine,
18:53and some of the other things now that we're developing,
18:55where it will allow me to disappear, with a Benny again, or an A24.
19:00And you like that feeling of disappearing.
19:02Man, I love it.
19:03By the way, if you think about it, Zach, that's why I love being out here.
19:09Can I read you a quote I discovered while doing a little research on you?
19:13Yeah.
19:14This is you talking in Rolling Stone 2018.
19:17No one's going to see me play a borderline psychopath suffering from depression.
19:21I have friends I admire, Oscar winners, who approach our craft with the idea of,
19:24sometimes it comes out a little darker, and nobody will see it, but it's for me.
19:28Great, but I have other things I can do for me.
19:31I'm going to take care of you, the audience.
19:34I saw this, and I was like, didn't he just kind of,
19:37and I'm not trying to slam or mark her here, it's not one-to-one,
19:40but didn't he just kind of play a borderline psychopath suffering from depression?
19:43Yes. So I don't know who the fuck that guy is.
19:45Yeah, who the fuck is that guy?
19:46He's a fucking asshole. I'm saying that.
19:49Do you feel like you've changed your mind?
19:51I feel like I've evolved and grown.
19:55But by the way, that was my truth back then.
19:58And in 2018, six years ago or so, going on seven, I did feel that way.
20:04And I felt I had this conceit, and I idealized what my career should be
20:11at that time in 2018 of audience first.
20:15Let's take care of the audience first.
20:16So I get a piece of material, I look at it and think,
20:18okay, does this have four-quadrant capability and opportunity?
20:23Audience is going to like seeing me in this role.
20:26Our audience is going to like seeing this.
20:28Our audience is going to like seeing that.
20:31What's evolved and changed, and I mean this respectfully,
20:33because I love people, it's got to be for me.
20:38And now what I've realized is if it's for me,
20:41then it has to be the right thing.
20:44Whether that means, hey, a global audience,
20:46or whether it means a small audience is going to see it,
20:49or people might reject it, whatever it is.
20:52But I've reached that point in my career.
20:55Here we go.
20:57Oh, Christ. Nice.
20:59You play golf?
21:00Yeah.
21:02Let me tell.
21:04That's like the golf swing, Kev?
21:05No, it's clicked in your head.
21:07Oh, yeah.
21:08Yes.
21:09There is that repetitive technique aspect of it, too.
21:12Do you play?
21:13I don't.
21:14Yeah.
21:15No.
21:17Kind of wish you hadn't brought that up with the camera.
21:19Why?
21:21You don't like golf?
21:23It's just like, you know, I love the sport.
21:25I don't know if I love the associations for being known as a golfer.
21:29But the reality is I am, in fact, a golfer.
21:31Just athlete.
21:32Why can't we just say athlete?
21:33Athlete.
21:34You're an athlete, though.
21:35I should have said that.
21:36Watch this.
21:37We'll do it.
21:38All right, Zach, let me see the cast again.
21:40All right.
21:41Let's go.
21:42Oh, hold on.
21:43That could have been embarrassing.
21:45Ah, perfect.
21:46Right to the spot.
21:48You an athlete?
21:50Yeah.
21:51How'd you know?
21:52I could tell.
21:53How'd you know?
21:54Yeah.
21:55I got one more quote for you.
21:57I swear this is the last one.
21:58No, give me the quote.
21:592021, Vanity Fair.
22:01Okay.
22:02A lot of actors, and a lot of my friends,
22:05that utilize the platform of acting to explore their emotional shit.
22:09What has worked for me is a lighter touch as it relates to that.
22:11I would prefer not to explore my emotional shit in my movies
22:14because for me, that's my responsibility to go figure out.
22:17That's a lot of sludge.
22:19Now I am diving into the sludge.
22:22I mean, I have to say I'm very interested in the sludge, you know?
22:25That was 2021.
22:27We're still dealing with COVID.
22:29Things are shut down.
22:30There's a heaviness in the air still.
22:32I felt like it was my responsibility at that time
22:35to not work my emotional shit out and my emotional sludge
22:41that I would otherwise work out in therapy on the screen.
22:45And the experience of maybe working out some emotional shit in the film,
22:50what was it like for you?
22:51Well, you know what you realize is you realize it's okay.
22:54Yeah.
22:55You realize, first of all, I'm lucky to have this platform
22:57that as an artist and in art,
23:00you get to express yourself in ways that I might not be able to
23:05in any other world or any other occupation.
23:10I was being glib about emotional sludge,
23:12but you've talked about depression.
23:14You were talking about it before.
23:15You said football career ended.
23:19You had a first marriage.
23:21Yes.
23:22Ended.
23:23And you've talked about even 2017.
23:24I don't know exactly what happened then,
23:26but you've talked before about experiencing bouts of depression.
23:30Yes.
23:31Basically.
23:32Yes.
23:33You haven't been quiet about emotional stuff necessarily,
23:38but this feels like a new kind of exploration of it a little bit, right?
23:42I think a convergent sack of having an opportunity
23:49to potentially express myself
23:51and take an inward look at some of the material as it relates to film
23:57where you can explore some of the challenges that you deal with in life
24:02and some of the things that are really fucked up at times.
24:05So, yes, in the past I have been open,
24:08and I think it's important and critical for me to be open
24:15for the sole reason that it's good for me.
24:17Really?
24:18Yes.
24:19In what way?
24:20I feel like if I'm asked about mental health
24:22and some of the challenges I've had in the past,
24:24we should name it what it is,
24:26and it's okay to be open about it,
24:28and it's okay to be vulnerable about it.
24:30It's okay to, at times, rip yourself open.
24:33Especially if you were like me.
24:35I grew up an only child.
24:37By the time I was 13, my parents were already on the fritz,
24:41and everything came to me to try and solve and figure out,
24:49and I didn't have anybody to turn to.
24:51I didn't have a mentor.
24:52I didn't have a big brother.
24:53So it was like, oh, I need to figure all this shit out on my own.
24:56So you figure out the shit on your own,
24:58and then the shit you don't figure out, well, guess where it goes?
25:01In there.
25:03So you keep it in here for a long time.
25:05It's always easy to have these conversations in the past tense, right?
25:07Like, oh, yeah, that was my football career or whatever.
25:10That was my first marriage.
25:13Is this something that's still with you in some way?
25:16Oh, man, there's a lot of stuff, I think, that still needs healing currently,
25:22and I continue to work on it.
25:27I have a somewhat meta question for you.
25:29You and I have just met.
25:31We don't really know each other, but you seem like a genuinely nice guy.
25:34You definitely have already learned the name of my son, the name of my wife.
25:39You've saluted my father on his retirement.
25:41God bless him.
25:43Forgot your name already.
25:45I'm a miserable East Coast cynic.
25:48Terrible heart.
25:50Bad human.
25:51Cold.
25:52How are you like this? Where does that come from?
26:03My mom.
26:05She'll see this and automatically become your biggest fan.
26:09True story, because, like, oh, you met my son.
26:12She's my biggest fan.
26:14I was going to do a story about my son, so now she's your biggest fan.
26:18I would say my mom.
26:20Always kind.
26:22Always sweet.
26:23Tough as nails.
26:25I'm half black and half Samoan.
26:26My dad's black.
26:28And my mom's Samoan.
26:30The kindest soul.
26:33Even through bad weather and damage and all the stuff that she went through.
26:45Always kind.
26:46If you do the deep dive on you, there's not a lot of negativity.
26:49Like in terms of?
26:50People writing negative stuff about you.
26:55Not really, man.
26:56I mean, they try it.
26:57I pee in a bottle.
26:58Yeah, that happens.
26:59That does happen.
27:00What about the late part of that story?
27:02Yeah, that happens too.
27:03Really?
27:04Okay.
27:05But not that amount, by the way.
27:06That was a banana's amount.
27:08Alleged in the story, you mean.
27:10It's crazy.
27:11It's not, yeah.
27:12Ridiculous.
27:13I brought it up.
27:14Well, I guess you brought it up.
27:15But the reason that stuck out to me is I was like, this guy's 52.
27:18Is this the first negative piece of press that's been written about him?
27:22But I didn't really recognize you in that story.
27:24You know?
27:25You didn't.
27:26It's not the person that shows up in anything else.
27:28Because it was bullshit.
27:29Yeah.
27:30You know what I mean?
27:31That was a whole other thing we could talk about what that was.
27:33But it's like, okay.
27:36You used to tell a story about early in your movie career.
27:42You get in.
27:43Mommy's stuff goes great.
27:45But you kind of get into a groove that you're not thrilled with.
27:48You go to your agents and you say, I'd really like to be George Clooney or Will Smith.
27:53Maybe bigger, better even.
27:55And the agents don't really get it.
27:57Ultimately, you find new representation.
27:59You have a lovely career that follows.
28:02My question is, do you feel like that happened?
28:04In terms of?
28:06In terms of what you were asking for.
28:08What I was asking for?
28:09Yeah.
28:14No, I don't feel it happened because I also feel like that was the idea back then.
28:21But if you really think about it, really the most important thing was, and I'm not dismissing my thought back then.
28:29Because I felt it.
28:30Because there's no blueprint, I feel like, for a guy like me who looks like me.
28:38But I feel now, looking back on the career, the declaration is just different.
28:44Yeah.
28:45That's all.
28:49What's the goal now then?
28:53The goal now is to get up every day and run towards the stuff that I love doing.
28:58It could be a hundred things, it could be ten things.
29:01There's human beings, I want to run towards them.
29:03There's my children, I want to run towards them.
29:07My family, etc.
29:08So, that's the goal.
29:10Do you allow yourself to ever imagine or picture what's on the other side of all that running?
29:17I haven't until right now, so give me a moment because I want to answer you because I love the question.
29:36Well, I think this will be a quote two, three years from now.
29:39You're going to say, you said this back in 2024.
29:43I think on the other side of all the running, this kind of running, I think on the other side is joy, man, and happiness.
29:51Because I could tell you ten years ago, when I was running towards stuff, I don't know if I loved, but I wanted to do.
30:00You reach a point in life where on the other side of running, it's the stuff you love.
30:03Maybe a few people loved it too.
30:05Maybe they didn't.
30:07But you did, and that's all that matters.