Kidnapping may be a business to some in northern Nigeria, but for those affected it is a nightmare. In our Street Debate, Edith Kimani talks to those who were abducted, including a survivor of the 'Chibok girl' abductions, and those who have had to negotiate with kidnappers to free their family members.
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00:07Hello and welcome back to the
00:0977% Street debate this week. We
00:11are back in Nigeria's capital
00:15Abuja now 7500. That's the
00:17number of reported kidnapping
00:19cases in a period of 1 year in
00:21this country between June 2023
00:24and July 2024. Obviously, some
00:26very staggering statistics
00:27there and of course behind
00:28me are the people who are going
00:30to be speaking to us today
00:31trying to figure out why the
00:32situation persists in Nigeria
00:34and what can be done about it.
00:36Let's start right here with
00:38how um now when we talk about
00:40kidnapping in Nigeria, you
00:41might go back to the Chibok
00:43girls and you are actually one
00:45of them. It's been 10 years
00:47since you were abducted. Do you
00:49mind telling us what happened
00:50to you? That day that we are in
00:54school, these people just come
00:57the school and they just tell us
01:00that they are the soldiers. They
01:03just carry us to the for 3
01:05years. We spent 3 years for
01:07there and we are just praying
01:10God will help us and we will
01:12still come back to see our
01:14parents and they start asking us
01:16that we will be a Muslim or
01:20this thing and we start scaring
01:22and we just say, yes, we start
01:24collecting the hijab. You know,
01:26it's been 10 years since the
01:28original kidnapping 7 years
01:30since you were released. Would
01:31you say that you've gotten over
01:33the trauma? I wonder if that's
01:34even an appropriate question.
01:36Yes, I'm still scaring because
01:38they are still coming to our
01:40places. Sometimes I can't feel
01:44stay at home safe because I'm
01:47afraid if I have gone, they are
01:49just shooting despite what the
01:51government did and despite what
01:52the international community
01:54tried. Do you feel that it was
01:55enough? No, it's not enough. I'm
02:00still asking them for our
02:03sisters did for 10 years. Do you
02:05think that the government has
02:06forgotten about the remaining
02:07girls? Yes, I think so.
02:10Mustafa, you had a very different
02:12experience. She was obviously
02:14captured by Boko Haram. They
02:16have some very incredible
02:17militant ideologies based on
02:19religion. Do you know who your
02:20captors were and what happened
02:21to you? One day I come back in
02:25the night. Then I saw someone
02:27climbing my gate. So, they were
02:30wearing black clothes looking
02:33like police but they covered
02:35their faces. And were they
02:39armed? Yeah, they were armed.
02:40About 18 of them. They were
02:42carrying AK-47. So, I've been
02:46with them for good 15 days
02:50because in that situation, it's
02:52just between life and death and
02:54they were just asking of ransom
02:56of 100 million. I said that I
02:59don't have it and none of my
03:00family is having the 100 million
03:01that they are calling. He says
03:03that if there is no such money,
03:04they will kill me. There was no
03:07way I saw me coming back to my
03:09family. Wow. I'm really sorry
03:11that you both went through that.
03:13But of course, the situation
03:15that we're talking about here in
03:16Nigeria is not unique to these
03:18two. As a matter of fact, let me
03:19just see from our audience, how
03:21many people here know of someone
03:23who was kidnapped or knows a
03:24friend or a friend of a friend?
03:27Yeah. No Nigerian. Okay. So,
03:29you're saying no Nigerian has
03:30been unaffected. Yeah. But these
03:32are two very different
03:34motivations, right? It would seem
03:36like. The Boko Haram, it's very
03:37clear. They wanted to form a
03:38caliphate. Where does that
03:39disparity come from? Well, the
03:41disparity in the case of
03:43kidnappers for ransom, it
03:45started lightly as a conflict
03:47between hardest and farmers
03:49which is normally occur during
03:51the harvest among the house and
03:54among the Fulani. Who are the
03:56house and the Fulani for our
03:57audience who are not familiar
03:58with Nigerian? Okay, fine. The
04:01Fulani are the hardest and the
04:03house is a tribe that has been
04:05mixed up by religion. Okay. So,
04:08we are clear on who they are and
04:10now you're telling me they start
04:11a conflict because of grazing
04:12lands because of drought. But how
04:14does that then become kidnapping?
04:16Well, it later became kidnapping
04:18because of the lack of social
04:20justice to the corruption among
04:24our security personnel. The
04:26issues of managing the grazing
04:28lands. They started selling
04:30grazing lands to the farmers. So,
04:33how does have no alternative
04:35institutional corruption and so
04:36on and so forth. So, doctor Ahmed,
04:39let me just pause there because
04:41it's a huge and very complicated
04:42history but I think we get the
04:44gist of it and you've talked
04:45about the security forces and
04:47their response to that. Obviously,
04:48when we're talking about
04:49kidnapping, you'd expect to find
04:51a a uniformed police officer here.
04:53We actually had one and they
04:54actually came right up here to
04:56our venue but at the very last
04:57minute when they heard that it
04:58was a debate, they chose not to
05:00participate. Regardless of that,
05:02you still depend on the police
05:04officers Halima and one of your
05:06relatives was also kidnapped and
05:08I'm just trying to find out as a
05:09family when you hear the news,
05:11what impact did that have on on
05:13your family? It's it was so hard.
05:17They post their video on the
05:20social media how they were
05:21flogging them, maltreating them
05:24in the bush. All of them were
05:26shouting, crying and the next
05:28thing their leader come up and
05:30said, he's giving the government
05:32also did that if they don't come
05:34to give them what they want that
05:37they are going to slaughter all
05:38of them. So, how did you
05:40eventually get your sister back?
05:43Let me say it's by god's grace.
05:45Without paying any ransom?
05:47I don't know. That is between
05:49them and the government. I want
05:51to come to Joshua because we're
05:52hearing some very scary things
05:54here. Yeah. Why are people so
05:56daring? Why has this problem
05:58continued persistently for so
06:00long? Uh the bottom line is
06:02money. It's a money making
06:05venture. So, for example, you
06:07they start small and they
06:09graduate into uh bigger groups
06:11and and the more they are they
06:14they are victims, the more
06:15money they make. Nigeria is a
06:18cash-based economy. Now, what
06:20do you use to pay for ransom?
06:22Well, I would imagine if you're
06:23a clever kidnapper, not a
06:25digital currency. Yes. Because
06:27no kidnapper want to take money
06:29by by wire, by bank transfer or
06:31anything because there'll be a
06:32trail. So, so long that there's
06:34cash in the society, the issue
06:37of kidnapping is not going
06:38anyway soon. Let me hear uh a
06:40few more solutions from the
06:41people here. What do you think
06:43needs to be done in order for
06:44this to become a problem of the
06:46past so that Nigeria is no
06:47longer dealing with this? I see
06:49your hand up. Let us stop paying
06:51the ransom completely because
06:53we are always witnessing a
06:55number of people that are being
06:57killed in the country. So, if
06:59they kill people tire, no money,
07:01no ransom, maybe they will have
07:03to stop. But how many that
07:05cannot be a solution. So, you
07:08you think that it's okay for
07:09people to get murdered just so
07:11that a solution can be found?
07:13If not, so how much are we going
07:15to spend in the pain? Some
07:17people you paid and they killed
07:18it. Okay. I see Joshua's hand up.
07:21I think he he wants to respond to
07:22this and Mustafa, let me come to
07:24you first. He's saying, you know
07:26what? In order to ease the burden
07:27on your family, it's maybe better
07:30if you had been killed. I'm in
07:32support of that. The sense of
07:34fact, if people are taking money
07:36to this uh kidnappers, this
07:39kidnapping will not end. Uh and
07:42if anyone or a victim in the
07:45hand of a kidnappers lost his
07:47life, the government should come
07:49out by compensating their family
07:51at least at least with a minimum
07:54of uh at least a 5 million
07:55because we have money. Uh okay.
07:57I have to say I'm very surprised
07:58that you're leaning towards that.
08:00Uh Halima, let me come to you
08:01before I finish with Joshua.
08:03To me, what he said is a no to
08:06me. That ransom they're going to
08:09give the family. Will it bring
08:10back the person they kill? It
08:12can't bring him back. Assuming
08:14the time I was kidnapped already,
08:16this is in the position that I
08:18will not come back but uh the
08:19money they will give to my
08:21family probably they'll be able
08:23to to see something to do to my
08:24children. Let me let me let me
08:26come back to what's if the
08:30person you're saying they should
08:31kill and give the family the
08:33ransom is the breadwinner of the
08:34family. They didn't kill you.
08:36You came back to your family.
08:38Are you not providing for your
08:39family? Will the government
08:40continue to provide for that
08:42family? I believe you don't know
08:44what government is doing to
08:47stop that killing. There was
08:49nothing and still our money is
08:50going. I didn't see any way to
08:53stop this kidnapping purposely
08:55the government in order what the
08:57security sector is not ready to
08:58do their works by stopping this
09:01kidnapping. Let me let me close
09:03this up with Joshua because we're
09:04hearing obviously some very
09:06radical solutions from two
09:08people who've endured the
09:10kidnapping in one way or another
09:12final thoughts for you to say
09:13stop payment of ransom is beyond
09:15words because once um your your
09:17father or your mother or a
09:19relative is kidnapped, your sense
09:21of judgment is automatically
09:22impaired. I expect the government
09:24to put words into action to
09:26ensure that ransom payment is
09:29reduced. It cannot be stopped.
09:31So, uh we asked what sounded like
09:33a very simple question at the
09:34beginning of this debate. What is
09:36causing the problem of kidnapping
09:37here in Nigeria? Very clear
09:39factors elaborated. How can you
09:41stop that? Not so clear on that
09:43matter. We'd love to hear from
09:44you but for now, thank you all
09:46for watching.