Can a layoff lead to your next big thing? Issie Lapowsky, contributor for Inc. Magazine and Alphonzo Terrell, co-founder and CEO of Spill join us to discuss.
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00:00Since 2022, more than half a million workers have been laid off from tech giants, including
00:06Meta, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and more.
00:09While nobody wants to lose a job, to many, it may have been the best thing that ever
00:15happened, their loss leading to inspiration.
00:20Isi Lepofsky is a contributor for Inc. Magazine, and Alfonso Terrell is the co-founder and
00:24CEO of Spill.
00:26They joined us now to discuss the group that has become known as Rebounder Founders.
00:31Great to have you both on today.
00:33Appreciate this story very much as someone who's had to bounce back many, many times.
00:38Isi, let's start with you.
00:40What is a Rebounder Founder?
00:44Rebounder Founders are part of this growing cohort of folks who were laid off after the
00:50big layoffs of 2022 that lasted through 2023 and are continuing today, who have decided
00:56to turn lemons into lemonade.
00:59They have gone on to start all manner of different companies.
01:02I spoke to folks who have small pottery making firms now.
01:06They went from Facebook and Microsoft to real micro businesses.
01:11And then you have folks like Fonz, who we're going to talk to, who set off to create a
01:15tech company of his own and kind of challenge these companies on their own turf, albeit
01:20in a very different way.
01:22And what I found is that there were a great number of these people.
01:25We looked at the top 10 biggest companies that had layoffs since 2022 and found a 62%
01:32increase in the number of people who identify now as founders after being laid off.
01:37Isi, I absolutely love this.
01:39Fonz, so let's talk about your story.
01:42Where and when were you laid off?
01:44Yeah, well, first, thank you for having me.
01:48It's pretty remarkable to be able to say about two years ago, I was laid off, then raised
01:55five million in pre-seed funding, then had the number one social app in the App Store.
02:00And today we're on the cover of Inc. Magazine.
02:03It's pretty surreal.
02:05And I think thinking back to that time, it really was two thoughts that came to me.
02:09The first was, what could I do to take care of my team?
02:13And that it was really time to build something new.
02:15And that's really where the inspiration for Spill came from.
02:19For those who aren't familiar with it, Spill is visual conversation at the speed of culture.
02:24Just imagine the best group chat you've ever been a part of where people are slanging memes
02:29and being funny all the time in reaction to what's going on in the world.
02:33So we're really proud of that.
02:35And we're looking to contract across a million in annualized revenue next year and excited
02:39for the future.
02:40Fonz, I want to dive more back into Spill in a moment.
02:42But first, I really want to unpack your journey, because I think people really struggle often
02:48with a layoff.
02:49And as I said, I have a couple of times in my life.
02:51So where were you laid off from?
02:53And initially, what was that disappointment like?
02:56How did you turn that into fuel?
03:00Yeah, it was just about two years ago, again, to this day, that I was on my way home.
03:06We had obviously been hearing about the pending transitions and potential deal happening with
03:11Elon, purchasing Twitter for quite some time.
03:15And so we didn't actually know what was happening.
03:17And then all of a sudden, myself and so many of my colleagues were just locked out of our
03:22slack.
03:23And I think the first emotion, of course, is confusion.
03:26You're checking in with people trying to figure out what's going on.
03:29But then the second, for me, was really clarity.
03:32I really felt like there was just only two things I needed to do.
03:37It was take care of my team.
03:38And then it was time to absolutely, again, build something new, because the problems
03:43that are facing so many people who use these platforms in particular were not going to
03:48be solved by the existing legacy platforms.
03:51We really needed some new innovation, new thinking to push the medium forward.
03:55And it couldn't be more important, especially at a time like this.
03:58It's really remarkable what you did, because losing a job can just destroy one's soul.
04:03It can be really paralyzing.
04:05Izzy, how common is this trait in the tech community in particular, in terms of bouncing
04:11back to found their own company?
04:14Well, I think that, as I said, there were a great number of people who did go on to
04:19launch their own companies.
04:20But I think part of that was circumstantial, right?
04:23There were layoffs across the industry.
04:26So it's not like there were a lot of other jobs available.
04:29So some folks, like Fonz, were very immediately like, it's time to build.
04:35Other folks were like, I'm going to wait out this week job market until there are jobs
04:39I really want.
04:40I mean, you're talking about a community of workers who have been very well treated.
04:45They've been well paid.
04:46They've had a lot of benefits.
04:48They've never really had to go out and look for jobs.
04:51Jobs have come to them.
04:53And suddenly, you have a situation where they're not seeing anything.
04:56And if they are seeing anything, it's not so appealing.
04:58And so for some of the people I talked to, it was a matter of, let me do this.
05:02Let me try this out until I see something new come along.
05:06For some of those people, they decided, I'm going back to tech.
05:09Entrepreneurship is not for me.
05:10And for some of them, they decided, hey, this is something I never thought I would have
05:14done.
05:15I was going to kind of coast in this nice Silicon Valley lifestyle.
05:20But now I found something really fulfilling, where I have a lot more power to innovate.
05:23A lot of these big tech companies have a reputation for innovation, but they have become
05:28really big bureaucracies.
05:30And so when you become an entrepreneur, you have a lot more autonomy and a lot more ability
05:34to execute.
05:35Yeah.
05:36One of the fascinating consequences of the last couple of years is small business growth
05:40is at an all-time high here in the United States, maybe in part because of people like
05:44Ufons.
05:45Can you talk about what was missing out there in the social media atmosphere, perhaps most
05:50particular at Twitter, that led you to found this company?
05:55There were several issues that we were focused on at Twitter that I felt couldn't actually
05:59be addressed by innovating inside the company.
06:02The first was safety.
06:04The most active communities on social media platforms, and this is an industry-wide challenge,
06:10are often the most targeted with hate speech, harassment, and other forms that discourage
06:14them from actually using the platform.
06:17The second is really crediting the innovative creativity that happens on social platforms,
06:22the new language, the new lexicon, all the new dances.
06:25Those come from these young, marginalized communities often that get all this hate speech,
06:31yet they don't get credited, and they're often not rewarded.
06:33So those were the three problems we really set out to solve with Spill, really starting
06:37with safety, crediting the creators for the contributions that they make, and really rewarding
06:43them for it long-term.
06:44And that's what we're focused on.
06:46Izzy, why do you think tech workers are better able to bounce back right now than other,
06:53perhaps, professions?
06:54And is there any warning about starting your own business?
06:56It certainly sounds great in the case of Alfonso, but it is certainly not easy.
07:01Yeah, so I think these folks are coming out of the gate with a ton of skills and a ton
07:06of experience.
07:07They really understand the internet at scale, right?
07:10So they have seen the good, the bad, the ugly.
07:13And so by virtue of being hired into these companies, they are already often very good
07:19at what they do.
07:20And then they've seen how their biggest competition works.
07:23So if you're going to start a competitor like Fonz has, that is a leg up.
07:28For others, it has been a struggle.
07:31A lot of people I talk to, they struggle with these feelings of identity loss, right?
07:36When you say, I work for Microsoft, I work for Facebook, I work for Twitter or Amazon
07:42or what have you, that becomes sort of a shorthand for how people understand things
07:46about who you are in this world.
07:50When you suddenly say, hey, I'm a fashion stylist or I run my own pottery business,
07:56people might assume very different things about you.
07:58And so I talk to people who really struggle with that, like how do I still, who am I in
08:03this world?
08:04And also, I worked really hard to get that job at Twitter or Facebook or Microsoft.
08:10I didn't lose that career path on my own terms.
08:13I talked to people who were like, if I want to change careers, I want it to be my decision.
08:18So I spoke to people across the spectrum, people for whom it was an easier transition
08:23despite all of the challenges of entrepreneurship and people who transitioned and felt like
08:28it really wasn't the right path for them.
08:30Yeah, for many, and again, self-included, your job can be your identity, not just your
08:36business card or your title.
08:38And when that's stripped away, you just feel gutted.
08:40Fonce, do you have any advice for other people, whether it be in your profession or others,
08:45that have or may lose a job?
08:48Absolutely.
08:49I think everything happens for a reason.
08:52I'm a deeply spiritual person.
08:54I practice Buddhism and we talk a lot about there are no accidents in the world.
08:59Everything is fuel, no matter what's going on.
09:01So to anybody out there that's going through this transition, really looking at this moment
09:07as, obviously, it's a great struggle and you're going to have to adapt and learn potentially
09:12new things.
09:13But take it from me, there are so many amazing things that are possible, particularly when
09:19you bet on yourself, when you really step out on courage aligned with a true mission,
09:23and you really go for solving some of the biggest problems in the world that really
09:27need solving.
09:28I think in many ways, that's the reason why all this is happening.
09:32We have to innovate and move so many industries forward.
09:36And this is how we're going to do it.
09:38Truly is the American story.
09:39I can't help but ask you, Fonce, what do you feel like Elon Musk's contribution has been
09:46in taking over Twitter in terms of the social political discourse in this country?
09:50Well, I have a lot of feelings about that, but I will say more than anything, the leadership
09:57at these platforms, particularly social media platforms, matters now more than ever.
10:03We believe the next generation of companies needs to have equal measure of technical competence
10:08and cultural fluency to really achieve these missions that have been set out.
10:13And it's just too important to have the leadership be focused on just one of those elements.
10:19And we really feel that particularly with regards to any type of discourse, whether
10:23it's misinformation, whether it's political discourse, you need to have leadership that
10:27understands both sides of the coin and ultimately the human impact that these products have.
10:34That's how we feel Spill is going to really win and differentiate itself long term.
10:38What a great story.
10:40Really appreciate you both being here.
10:41Alfonso Torell is the co-founder and CEO of Spill.
10:44Check them out.
10:45And most importantly, please go read this piece, Inc. Magazine.
10:49It is really the American story.
10:52Izzy Lepowski, thank you for writing it.
10:54Thank you for bringing it to our audience.
10:58Appreciate it.