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The Story of PIA's Rise and Fall | Khawar Ghumman's Reports
"Koi bhi idara privatize nahi hoga..." - Haider Naqvi
Muhammad Zubair criticizes government decisions
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The Story of PIA's Rise and Fall | Khawar Ghumman's Reports
"Koi bhi idara privatize nahi hoga..." - Haider Naqvi
Muhammad Zubair criticizes government decisions
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:30The reporters, me and Chaudhry Ghulam Singh, will discuss why this joke happened.
00:36We have invited the former Governor of Sindh, the former Minister of Education,
00:44who was the head of the Nijkari Commission when the Pakistan Muslim League was in power from 2013 to 2018.
00:50This is our top story for today.
00:53We have also included in the program a new law, the Terrorism Act.
00:58We will discuss how people will be investigated and how they will be arrested.
01:04But first of all, we will tell you the history of Pakistan International Airlines.
01:12The information we have collected is that on 1st February 1955,
01:19the first international flight from Karachi to London took off.
01:25PIA was the first airline in Asia to include Jet Tiarum in its fleet.
01:31It was the first non-communist airline in the world to land in China.
01:35It was the first airline in the world to link Asia with Europe via Moscow.
01:40It was the first airline in the world to introduce movies and music to passengers during flight.
01:48People who use PIA flights nowadays, especially to go to Canada,
01:54this is the only long direct flight available.
01:56Let's see what happens inside the aircraft nowadays.
01:59In 1967, when IBM computers were purchased,
02:04people were unaware of the name of the computer.
02:08In the era of the city of lights, Karachi,
02:11when 40 airlines and limited companies operated here,
02:14PIA had the contact of training of 30 companies in space and ground operations.
02:21The great revolutionary poet Faiz-e-Mant Faiz had given this slogan,
02:25Great people to fly with.
02:30Before going to Mr. Muhammad Zubair, I will try to talk to our reporter.
02:37We have invited Mr. Shoaib Nizami to the program.
02:41What exactly happened yesterday?
02:44We were told that around $20 million consultants were paid and hired.
02:51They prepared something.
02:53Six different consortiums were finalized that they can participate in this bidding process.
03:02When the bidding process started, it was found that only one bidder was present.
03:06Viewers, you can take it seriously.
03:10The price was set at least for Rs. 85 billion.
03:13Later, it was said that those who are going to buy it will pay Rs. 10 billion.
03:18If you want to buy it, then buy it.
03:20If you don't want to give it, then give it.
03:22Viewers, I remembered that in Punjab,
03:25clean products are sold at Rs. 200.
03:32The buyer says, if you want to buy it for Rs. 10, then buy it.
03:35Later, the deal is at Rs. 5.
03:37I don't know if our airline deal will be at Rs. 10 or less.
03:41Mr. Shoaib Nizami, what exactly happened yesterday?
03:46Who is responsible for this?
03:49Yesterday, we provided live Pakistani television coverage at an international level.
03:56We made fun of the world.
03:58Who is responsible for this?
04:00The main person responsible for this is Mr. Wazir-e-Nichkari.
04:03Who is he?
04:04Mr. Abdul Aleem Khan, Secretary-General Nizhkari,
04:07and all the other officials.
04:09Mr. Zubair is also here.
04:11He knows about all the issues.
04:12Since when has the PIA Nizhkari been going on?
04:14When Mr. Miftah Ismail came to the BOI,
04:17these things were discussed.
04:19These things were in Nizhkari.
04:20The documents were finalized.
04:22In February 2016, there was a demonstration in Karachi.
04:24Leave that.
04:25The documents were ready.
04:28They are being prepared since that time.
04:29After that, Mr. Fawad prepared everything in January.
04:34After that, when the announcement came in April,
04:36within six months,
04:38there was a need to open up the media more.
04:43Its price went from 2 rupees to 27 rupees.
04:47Yesterday, it was trading for 20 rupees.
04:49The price reached here because of Nizhkari.
04:52The real case was not pleaded.
04:55The case was not pleaded.
04:57You have spent millions of dollars on this.
05:02The fees of 20 million dollars are being quoted.
05:05The consultants are being paid.
05:07How much is the punishment?
05:09It is given at different times.
05:11The last one is of 75 lakh dollars.
05:13It was given to Ernest Young, a British company.
05:16Our case could not be pleaded in the international market.
05:20You can see that the people of the aviation industry ran away.
05:24There is only one real estate left.
05:27What was the compulsion? Why did you get the bidding done?
05:29I did not understand.
05:31Why did you call them five parties?
05:33We have an agreement with IMF.
05:36We had to do it before November.
05:38But, there is no seriousness.
05:40The last hope was from the Minister of Treasury.
05:43What is the status of the 10,000 rupees that they have offered?
05:47Is the bidding done?
05:50Or, has it been terminated?
05:51Will a new process start?
05:52Or, has it been announced that the Cabinet will decide on it?
05:55The Nishkari Committee of the Cabinet will decide on it.
05:58It will decide on it.
06:00After that, an announcement will be issued.
06:03Whether the bidding has been terminated or not.
06:05But, all the sources are saying that it should be done at such a low price.
06:09The price was already 99 billion rupees.
06:12But, they still offered 85 billion rupees.
06:14The value in their books, after Nishkari,
06:18is 167 billion rupees.
06:2060% of the shares are 99 billion rupees.
06:23But, they still offered 85 billion rupees.
06:26What is the overall assets of this airline?
06:29After Nishkari, the assets of the airline are around 180 billion rupees.
06:33Then, you don't have to see how expensive the routes are.
06:36Then, a committee was formed under the supervision of Mr. Salim Anwar.
06:40The fake degrees of all the PIA pilots were cleared.
06:43The decision has been made since June 2.
06:45No action has been taken on it yet.
06:48All the efforts were made to clear the routes of Europe.
06:51But, all that was not done in these 5 months.
06:53You should have cleared the routes of Europe.
06:57When your aircraft is going to Canada,
06:59can't it go to America and Europe?
07:01Thank you very much for giving us all this information.
07:03Now, let's go to our friend, Mr. Zubair.
07:07He is present in Karachi.
07:08Mr. Zubair, when this incident happened yesterday,
07:11you saw it on live television.
07:14Were you surprised?
07:16Were you worried?
07:17Was it a surprise for you?
07:19Or were you expecting this to happen?
07:21Mr. Zubair.
07:25I was a little surprised.
07:26But, obviously, the process that was run from the beginning,
07:31was done in such a stupid way.
07:33It was so inappropriate.
07:35It was like a joke.
07:37You don't joke about selling a car like this.
07:42You don't joke about selling your plot like this.
07:44PIA is such a big entity.
07:46And, Khawar, it was not just a matter of PIA.
07:49In the conditions of IMF, as your representative just said,
07:53Pakistan has three or four big challenges, economic challenges,
07:57which Pakistan has agreed upon and which are there.
08:00One of them is poverty.
08:02Because, there is an annual loss of more than 1 trillion rupees,
08:06which is the loss of our public sector companies.
08:09And, PIA is at the forefront of it.
08:11A loss of about 1.25 billion rupees was made last year.
08:15So, you can imagine.
08:17So, it had to be taken seriously according to that.
08:19From the first day, when the financial advisors were appointed,
08:24the biggest failure came to light at that time,
08:28when the job of the financial advisors is to bring foreign interest.
08:33The big Middle East airlines, Chinese airlines,
08:38China has not only national airlines,
08:40it has many domestic and provincial airlines.
08:42They have been interested before.
08:44Second, there are Australian airlines and others.
08:46So, not a single foreign interest came.
08:49Now, the biggest problem in that is not just PIA,
08:53it is not about poverty, it is about Pakistan's investment climate.
08:57The way we look at it, it has also come to light openly here.
09:02Despite the fact that we have hit such a blow in the last year,
09:05that I don't know what we are going to do.
09:07The current investment ratio is at the lowest level in Pakistan for less than 50 years.
09:12So, one, there was no interest in Pakistan.
09:15Then the second thing is that the process of privatization is very professional.
09:19And in that, your financial advisor, who Ernest Young was telling in this,
09:24along with him, there are many other companies, there is a consortium.
09:28Not a single road show went out. Not a single one.
09:31And the biggest thing is that the minister of privatization
09:33makes very good housing projects.
09:35Of course, we are all witnesses and witnesses that he has done great work.
09:40But privatization is a very professional job.
09:43And the joke you made yesterday, where was the minister of privatization?
09:47All this that you are interviewing me today,
09:50I don't know how many BBCs and television networks I have been to.
09:55Where is the minister for privatization?
09:58Mr. Zubair, let me show you the footage.
10:00I think he was present with the Prime Minister.
10:03He had gone to bring investment from abroad.
10:05So he should have been here.
10:07He was present in that meeting through Zoom.
10:09I think he knew that all this was going to come out.
10:12Therefore, he easily got to the side.
10:14Obviously, you are facing embarrassment in front of the whole world.
10:18Mr. Zubair, I will know the whole incident from you.
10:22Obviously, when you headed it in 2016-17, you almost completed it.
10:26What happened to Fayyaz then?
10:28And the viewers will keep the comparative analysis of both in front of you.
10:31Mr. Chaudhary, your friend, Ishaq Darsad,
10:35he is wearing so many hats.
10:38He is a foreign minister.
10:40Yesterday, you saw him as a foreign minister.
10:42He came from China.
10:45A letter was written from a German ambassador.
10:48He is saying that he is more interested in being a finance minister
10:53or a former finance minister in all these matters.
10:56Now, he is heading this committee of privatization.
10:59Why is he not able to complete a single job?
11:02What is the problem?
11:29Has he ever done a good job?
11:31Has he ever done a national service?
11:35He has created a scene.
11:37Now, who will come to buy PIA?
11:39When a single bid came from a local bidder,
11:43first of all, a single bid is generally not acceptable.
11:47Shahab will bear me all.
11:49And Mohammad Zubair is also a very big expert.
11:53And the people of Pakistan are very standing.
11:56So, why did he open it?
11:58Why did he open it?
11:59He has started to destroy the whole process.
12:04Absolutely right.
12:05You have made a joke.
12:06If it is a single bid, then it should not have been opened.
12:07Why didn't he postpone it earlier?
12:08Mr. Naqeeb, this was a big news for you.
12:11Yesterday, everything that happened to us,
12:13our joke was made in front of the whole world.
12:15When you got this news,
12:17you saw it.
12:18What news do you have?
12:19If you have any news, then share it.
12:20Mr. Azhar, what was your immediate reaction?
12:22That you have said at least Rs. 85 billion.
12:25Rs. 10 billion is being offered.
12:27And it is written in the newspapers that
12:29the real estate company Zubair has put this offer,
12:33he is saying that our plots can be adjusted,
12:35so let's do it against it.
12:36Mr. Naqeeb.
12:37Yes, absolutely.
12:38The first thing is,
12:39what is the joke in Pakistan?
12:41Is this how it happens in auctions?
12:43Everyone knows from the first day.
12:45Are you serious?
12:46Are you serious?
12:47We know in Pakistan,
12:48we know in the whole world,
12:49what is the condition of PIA.
12:50And that Rs. 85 billion,
12:51he would have put Rs. 5000 billion.
12:53He said, whoever wants to buy,
12:54he has to give only that,
12:55which he must have made his business feasibility.
12:57Secondly, my advice is that
12:59even if PIA is sold for Rs. 10,
13:00then sell it.
13:01If you are losing Rs. 100 billion per year,
13:03then it is better that you give it to someone
13:05and put all the liabilities on it.
13:07Instead of having to give Rs. 100 billion in cash,
13:09you are asking for Rs. 85 billion.
13:11Mr. Naqeeb, this is such a brilliant idea,
13:13why didn't it come to the mind of Mr. Rishabh Dutt?
13:15It has been going on for so long.
13:17Let's go.
13:18See, the people of the government have problems.
13:20Then such people come in front of them,
13:23who then make them understand
13:25as a citizen of the country.
13:27Some people make them understand
13:29as a big business tycoon.
13:31Some people make them understand
13:33as a big champion of human rights.
13:35There are a lot of problems of the government.
13:37But the realistic ground truth is that
13:39one thing that is giving you a loss of Rs. 100 billion,
13:41if you have to give it to someone for free,
13:43then give it.
13:44At least you will save Rs. 100 billion after a year.
13:46Okay, Mr. Zubair,
13:47we saw what happened yesterday.
13:49Now there is a news to BBC.
13:51Someone has quoted Reuters in BBC.
13:53And three or four other people say
13:55that Pakistan does not have a sustainable,
13:57viable option.
13:58They are seeing whether the current government
14:00will be able to implement the terms and conditions
14:02that it has offered or not.
14:04People think, experts think that no.
14:06Now, sir, I would like to know from you,
14:08you worked on it comprehensively.
14:10Almost completed.
14:12How much was being sold at that time?
14:14How many consultants did you hire?
14:16How much money was spent at that time?
14:18And bring that fast forward to today.
14:20So how will you do its comparative analysis?
14:26For Mr. Naqvi and for your viewers,
14:28let me tell you that the government
14:30should have understood,
14:32as Mr. Naqvi said,
14:34what is its condition.
14:36So you keep the conditions according to that.
14:38You have kept such tough conditions
14:40that no one was ready to meet.
14:42Those who were five,
14:44six, seven, eight,
14:46why did they go back?
14:48You have kept such tough conditions
14:50that no one was ready to meet.
14:52And in the end,
14:54when there was only one bidder left
14:56and he had no background,
14:58even if you had given him,
15:00suppose you had given him,
15:02then you would have thought
15:04that what a joke it would have been
15:06that someone's background is real estate.
15:08You would have given him
15:10an airline and a global airline
15:12that he has to compete with
15:14all the Middle Eastern Emirates,
15:16Qatar, Lufthansa
15:18and compete with them.
15:20And at the domestic level,
15:22we have such good airlines
15:24that we have to compete with them.
15:26So who were you going to hand over to?
15:28So it was a non-serious attitude
15:30while keeping the conditions.
15:32You should have understood
15:34that how much it is.
15:36And let me tell you another thing.
15:38The liabilities of 625 billion rupees
15:40of PIA
15:42were taken out of the balance sheet
15:44to attract investors
15:46that 625 billion
15:48is the responsibility
15:50of the government.
15:52So the balance sheet
15:54was being given very cleanly.
15:56Now your question was
15:58what happened in 2015.
16:00One more thing,
16:02it is very important
16:04that there are always political issues
16:06in privatization.
16:08When the privatization program
16:10started in 1990,
16:12at that time it was the PMLN government.
16:14People's Party was the only
16:16major political opponent.
16:18People's Party tooth and nail
16:20opposed that privatization program.
16:22If we fast forward,
16:24when PTI came in 2013
16:26as a strong opposition,
16:28they also opposed
16:30very strongly.
16:32And it was a very big challenge
16:34that how to convince
16:36PMLN and PTI
16:38to come with us.
16:40This time there was no opposition
16:42for the government.
16:44Neither PTI was opposing,
16:46nor People's Party,
16:48nor Jamaat-e-Islam.
16:50So they got an environment
16:52that no political party
16:54or government had before.
16:56And despite that,
16:58it was such a big failure.
17:00In 2015,
17:02there were two aspects.
17:04Capital market transactions
17:06amounted to 450 billion rupees.
17:08There were HBL, UPL,
17:10PPL, ABL,
17:12and a couple of other companies
17:14whose transactions
17:16amounted to 450 billion rupees.
17:18They came to the government
17:20in a foreign exchange.
17:24After that,
17:26the Privatization Commission
17:28did not earn a single rupee.
17:30Secondly,
17:32the big companies
17:34in which we put PIA first
17:36both symbolically
17:38and as a loss-making entity.
17:40Secondly, Pakistan Steel Mill.
17:42And thirdly,
17:44Faisalabad Electric Supply Corporation.
17:46We said that these three
17:48will be eliminated.
17:50The rest will be very easy.
17:52And the 35 other institutions
17:54which had distribution companies
17:56and banks,
17:58their due diligence process
18:00was almost complete.
18:02What happened with PIA?
18:04We know the whole story.
18:06What happened with PIA?
18:08With PIA,
18:10a parliamentary committee
18:12was formed.
18:14PIA was run
18:16under an Act of Parliament
18:18in 1956.
18:20As you said in the intro,
18:22it started in 1955.
18:24In 1956, an Act of Parliament
18:26was passed.
18:28In that original Act,
18:30the government could not sell
18:32its shares to the private sector.
18:34So, we needed an opposition in the government.
18:36A parliamentary committee was formed.
18:38In the parliamentary committee,
18:40there was PTI, Sheikh Rashid,
18:42and the People's Party.
18:44We thought that
18:46we had completed the last stage.
18:48We were on the last stage.
18:50In the last meeting,
18:52PTI said,
18:54Mr. Dar,
18:56you can't do this.
18:58Mr. Dar said,
19:00I am telling you the facts.
19:02You can't do this.
19:04You can't do this.
19:06Mr. Dar said,
19:08if you don't want to do this,
19:10then we don't want to do this either.
19:12I was shocked.
19:14We had already paid
19:16$10 million to the Financial Advisers.
19:18We had already paid $10 million to the Financial Advisers.
19:20This time also,
19:22we are paying only $20 million.
19:24At that time,
19:26I was shocked.
19:28I said to Mr. Dar,
19:30we have made a tough decision.
19:32We have made a two-year effort
19:34at the last stage.
19:36Pakistan is running in the IMF program.
19:38Asian Development Bank
19:40and World Bank
19:42are working with us.
19:44Pakistan will be shocked.
19:46But they said that
19:48these are political considerations.
19:50I think that is very important.
19:52Overall,
19:54there is a lot of debate
19:56as to why only $10 million.
19:58Mr. Naqvi said,
20:00it is written in the newspapers
20:02that there are a lot of liabilities.
20:04Even if someone takes it for free,
20:06they have to pay all the liabilities.
20:08What is the difference
20:10between the price
20:12and the assets being quoted?
20:14What is the difference between the price
20:16and the assets being quoted?
20:18Mr. Naqvi,
20:20it is a function of demand and supply.
20:22It is a function of demand and supply.
20:24It is a function of demand and supply.
20:26You can put a price of
20:28$60 billion instead of $85 billion.
20:30You can put a price of $60 billion instead of $85 billion.
20:32The reality is that
20:34there should not have been a bidding.
20:36When a person is left alone,
20:38he knows that he has no competition.
20:40What is the benefit of competitive bidding?
20:42It would have gone to the Competition Commission
20:44and Pakistan if it had happened.
20:46There should be competition
20:48If the best 5 bidders
20:50leave this real estate business,
20:52If the best 5 bidders leave this real estate business,
20:54why will it go above $10 billion?
20:56Why will it go above $10 billion?
20:58If they ensure competitiveness,
21:00If they ensure competitiveness,
21:02they would have eased the strict conditions
21:04they had imposed.
21:06They would have eased the strict conditions
21:08and explained that we withdraw these conditions.
21:10Tax liability, contingent liabilities
21:12and so on.
21:14You will invest so much,
21:16you will lose the money.
21:18You will lose the money.
21:20You will invest so much,
21:22you will lose the money.
21:24This never happens.
21:26If you had not done this,
21:28you would have got a good price
21:30because of competition.
21:32This would not have happened.
21:34If you and I both know that
21:36I am the only potential buyer,
21:38why would I give a high price?
21:40Why would I give a high price?
21:42We will try to find the answer to this question
21:44We will try to find the answer to this question
21:46Is it intentionally
21:48Is it intentionally
21:50that no one should buy PIA
21:52or is it the intention to give it to a special party?
21:54or is it the intention to give it to a special party?
21:56Because the facts and figures
21:58that have come in front of us
22:00and you have made a single bidder
22:02and you have made a single bidder
22:04open his offer,
22:06I don't understand anything.
22:08I don't understand anything.
22:10I don't understand anything.
22:12A letter of intent has been issued
22:14A letter of intent has been issued
22:16by the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa government
22:18by the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa government
22:20that we also want to participate in this bid.
22:22that we also want to participate in this bid.
22:24that we also want to participate in this bid.
22:26that we also want to participate in this bid.
22:28that we also want to participate in this bid.
22:30that we also want to participate in this bid.
22:32that we also want to participate in this bid.
22:34that we also want to participate in this bid.
22:36that we also want to participate in this bid.
22:38that we also want to participate in this bid.
22:40That is a precise question.
22:42It seems like there is some conspiracy behind this.
22:44It seems like there is some conspiracy behind this.
22:46Someone has done this intentionally
22:48to show that PIA is nothing.
22:50to show that PIA is nothing.
22:5210 billion,
22:54and that nobody is interested,
22:56and that nobody is interested,
22:58not internationally, not locally.
23:00And you call it a daisy business.
23:02And you call it a daisy business.
23:04And you call it a daisy business.
23:06Yes.
23:08On the 26th, they got to know that only one single bid has deposited their money under bail.
23:15They should have been alert at that time.
23:17They should have relaxed and considered their rules once again.
23:22They are giving them the responsibility of pension before dismissal.
23:26They are not even giving the shares that 76% and 80% are asking for.
23:31They are giving only 60%.
23:33Earlier, they were giving 51%.
23:35Now, they are giving 20% or 40% shares.
23:40I can understand all this.
23:42You gave $20 million to a consultant.
23:44You can see that this work is not moving forward.
23:46Despite this, you have insulted the Live Television yesterday.
23:50You insulted the National Bank and the National Bank.
23:52Why? Is there a solution to this?
23:55They just wanted the price to be visible to the public.
23:58What we said to them was that we wanted the price to be visible to the public.
24:02Who knows, it would have been more.
24:04They didn't know what the price would be.
24:06They had to be quoted at that time.
24:07But when they were given half an hour, they got the shares.
24:10They don't need it.
24:11They won't increase it by a single rupee.
24:13There is no competition.
24:15Mr. Ghulam Hussain, Mr. Aleem Khan is a successful businessman.
24:21The way he runs his business.
24:23He couldn't see that this is something.
24:25Obviously, he is a public representative here.
24:28He is an MNA.
24:29He is holding an important position.
24:31If this was the case, we would have stopped the bidding.
24:34The single bidding, as Mr. Zubair is saying, would have been broken.
24:37No, you will understand what I am saying.
24:39Mr. Zubair may not understand.
24:41Many times, when we buy tomatoes, pumpkin seeds, or potatoes,
24:49we get to know that the 100 sacks that come out of one acre,
24:55if we take it to the market,
25:00whether it is a barber or a tractor or a trolley,
25:04we have to pay from our own pocket.
25:07So, it is better to throw it here.
25:10Give it there.
25:12And you get into this business.
25:14You tell me that this is a failure.
25:18Have you heard of stealing clothes?
25:22This is beyond that.
25:24Mr. Nagri, while you were leaving,
25:26I thought you wanted to give some news.
25:28But you always put the truck behind the light.
25:30Or you sit on the truck.
25:32Or you sit on the driver's seat.
25:34Tell me, who is behind this?
25:36Who has tried this?
25:38Mr. Zubair said the right thing.
25:40Before this, there was never such an environment.
25:43Privatization friendly.
25:44If the government was interested,
25:46then there was no opposition of whatsoever nature.
25:50This matter could have been easily transacted.
25:53Tell me, who is behind this privatization?
25:57I will tell you what you want to hear.
26:00Not just PIA,
26:02no institution will be privatized.
26:04The institutions that are being privatized
26:07will go into PP mode,
26:08Public-Private Partnership mode.
26:10And PIA will also be given to a party
26:12in 3-6 months,
26:14in Public-Private Partnership mode,
26:16which will run this PIA
26:18under the formula of Build-Operate-Transfer.
26:22This is one thing.
26:23But the second thing I want to say,
26:25because Mr. Zubair is more experienced
26:27in business and in privatization,
26:30he may agree.
26:32If PIA is not being sold,
26:34then who is behind this?
26:35Behind this are the private airlines
26:37that are currently operating in Pakistan.
26:39Because when PIA is sold,
26:40it will be organized, managed,
26:42and aircrafts will come.
26:44And there is a lot of domestic traffic in Pakistan.
26:46And all this domestic traffic
26:48will be converted to PIA.
26:50The solution to this is
26:51that you bring at least 10-15 more domestic airlines,
26:54close PIA as it is,
26:56and bound those domestic airlines
26:58so that they keep at least 20% of their employees
27:01who are currently working in PIA,
27:03so that their jobs do not end.
27:05And all your traffic
27:07will come to those domestic airlines.
27:09Their business will also run.
27:11Mr. Negri,
27:13$20 million has been spent by the government.
27:15If you had taken $100,000 or $200,000,
27:17you would have given them advice.
27:19I am ready to give for free.
27:21See, I am giving through you.
27:22In fact, I am ready to give advice myself.
27:24Okay, Mr. Zubair,
27:25all these things seem easy.
27:27Obviously, there is always
27:29some method behind this madness.
27:31What do you think?
27:33Didn't Mr. Aleem Khan know about this?
27:36Didn't Mr. Ishaq Dar know about this?
27:38In the current government,
27:39many of your old colleagues,
27:41didn't they know
27:43that a single bidder,
27:45nobody is interested,
27:46nobody is willing to pay,
27:47despite this,
27:48we are going ahead with this bidding.
27:50The general impression is that
27:52you are deliberately trying to
27:54devalue your asset
27:56in front of the world,
27:58in front of the people.
28:00There is nothing to be gained.
28:02They just have to sit like this.
28:03Mr. Zubair,
28:04what do you think,
28:05who got all this done
28:06and what is its purpose?
28:07Mr. Zubair.
28:09Yes, two things are important.
28:11One is that
28:12this is not a 7-month government.
28:14When this government came in April 2022,
28:16our economic agenda,
28:18which was a part of the economic team,
28:20was at the top of the list.
28:22So after two and a half years,
28:24we have reached this position
28:26that there was only one company
28:28and what happened to it.
28:30The second thing is that
28:32I think you mentioned
28:34its team.
28:36Earlier in April 2022,
28:38there was a person,
28:40Abid something,
28:42who was the MNA of the People's Party at that time.
28:44You made him the Privatisation Minister,
28:46which was the anti-privatisation
28:48of the People's Party
28:50and was also in their manifesto.
28:52So look at your choice,
28:54look at your merit,
28:56what you did.
28:58Now you have made Alim Khan
29:00the Minister of the Nijgari Commission
29:02and also the head of the Board of Investment.
29:04Now Pakistan's biggest need
29:06is to bring investment.
29:08And you made him,
29:10Alim Khan,
29:12he has a great position.
29:14I value his political insight.
29:18But for this,
29:20he should have kept
29:22a very high level professional.
29:24Communication is very important.
29:26Those who understand these things.
29:28The secretary of the Nijgari Commission,
29:30now you yourself think
29:32that what was happening there yesterday,
29:34which you have mentioned
29:36two or three times,
29:38that the bidders were saying
29:40that the value will be adjusted against it.
29:42Now this cannot be a bigger joke.
29:44This cannot be a bigger joke.
29:46And the biggest effect of this
29:48was not only the Nijgari of the PIA,
29:50but also the economy of Pakistan,
29:52the image of Pakistan,
29:54which was already very bad.
29:56That no one was ready to come here.
29:58Which is evident that
30:00after two and a half years of effort,
30:02you reached here and no one came.
30:04And the good Pakistani potential buyers
30:06also backed off.
30:08So I think this has caused
30:10a lot of damage.
30:12And then who thought
30:14that the one who was
30:16showing live on Pakistan television,
30:18I mean this was the first question.
30:20Absolutely right.
30:22This is a flagship program.
30:24He is showing live,
30:26continue.
30:28Mr. Zubair.
30:30You see,
30:32the thought of the whole government
30:34was so misplaced.
30:36When the offer of
30:38185 billion will come,
30:40we will make noise.
30:42We will say,
30:44we have fulfilled
30:46the vision of the
30:48Prime Minister.
30:50Mr. Zubair, there is always
30:52a method behind the madness.
30:54The aim was to tell people
30:56that there is nothing in the PIA.
30:58Viewers, we will go to the break.
31:00After the break, we will talk
31:02about national politics.
31:04What will national politics look like
31:06in the next 2-6 months?
31:08Will the current government
31:10continue?
31:12Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf has given
31:14a final call that we are going
31:16to come back to the streets
31:18with full force and the government
31:20will have a very difficult time
31:22in a couple of weeks.
31:24We will try to know
31:26Mr. Zubair's thoughts
31:28on all matters.
31:30Stay with us.
31:34You must have seen
31:36on the television screen
31:38that a plane is being
31:40taken from Karachi to Hyderabad
31:42by road.
31:44Some people think that
31:46we will have to do
31:48this work
31:50with the Pakistan
31:52International
31:54Airlines.
31:56On the one hand,
31:58we are seeing this scene
32:00and on the other hand,
32:02we are seeing
32:04that our party
32:06has started
32:08to fly.
32:10We have started
32:12to fly the flags
32:14of success.
32:18I have just heard
32:20that the Muslim League
32:22has started to fly.
32:24By the grace of Allah,
32:26thanks to Allah,
32:28the Muslim League
32:30has started to fly.
32:38Mr. Zubair,
32:40I don't know who says this
32:42but we have heard
32:44that the Muslim League
32:46has started to fly.
32:48What are your thoughts
32:50on this?
32:54First of all,
32:56they have admitted
32:58that the Muslim League
33:00has started to fly.
33:02It was not in February
33:042024.
33:06At that time,
33:08the wind was blowing
33:10in the opposite direction.
33:12When I met Mr. Mian
33:14in September 2023,
33:16the people there
33:18told me that
33:20the wind was blowing
33:22towards the Muslim League.
33:24The Muslim League
33:26has started to fly.
33:28The Muslim League
33:30has started to fly.
33:32The wind was blowing
33:34in the opposite direction.
33:36When I met Mr. Mian
33:38in September 2023,
33:40the people there
33:42told me that
33:44the wind was blowing
33:46towards the Muslim League.
33:48When I met Mr. Mian
33:50in September 2023,
33:52the people there
33:54told me that
33:56the wind was blowing
33:58in the opposite direction.
34:00When I met Mr. Mian
34:02in September 2023,
34:04the people there
34:06told me that
34:08the wind was blowing
34:10towards the Muslim League.
34:12They told me that
34:14the wind was blowing
34:16in the opposite direction.
34:18They told me that
34:20the wind was blowing
34:22So they asked me, have you ever fought a consular election?
34:26I said, no.
34:27So I said, Mr. Sohail Varai had come a few days ago, had a two-hour meeting.
34:31Which consular election was that?
34:33I have facts and figures.
34:35All the by-elections were won by PTI since 2022.
34:38All of them.
34:39Approximately 90%.
34:40In fact, everyone wins against the Muslim League.
34:43They were losing to the People's Party.
34:45One was losing in Multan, one was losing in Karachi.
34:4717 out of 20 seats, 16 seats were won by PTI in the by-elections.
34:53After that, all the by-elections that took place, they are winning in all of them.
34:57So on what basis are we saying that the wind is on our side?
35:01This is also an assessment.
35:02You see, you do analysis.
35:04Let's talk about this.
35:05Mr. Zubair, this has come to light.
35:07The current situation is that PTI is trying to resist on its own.
35:12They come on the roads and go back.
35:14Now, once again, PTI is saying that we are coming on the roads.
35:17And you saw how the 26th Ayn-e-Darmim happened.
35:20They don't let you listen to it.
35:22Mr. Maulana also gave a statement about how we faced the difficulties.
35:26Now, what will happen next?
35:27First, listen to Mr. Maulana.
35:28So, they bought the members from inside.
35:31And this is a fact that they bought them.
35:33They needed our 8 votes.
35:35They had bought 11 votes.
35:37And they felt safe.
35:39If we hadn't voted,
35:40the draft would have been better than the original draft.
35:45Mr. Zubair, being a...
35:47Obviously, you have been looking at politics for a long time.
35:50What do you think, in the next 6 months, down the road,
35:53what will the national politics look like?
35:56What are we looking at?
35:57What will happen in Pakistan?
36:01Look, the only viable political opposition is PTI.
36:06But I think, I don't know if you will agree or not,
36:09Mr. Jaudi, will you agree or not,
36:11PTI has also played its cards badly.
36:14We were just talking about Nijkari.
36:16Where is PTI's official position?
36:18Absolutely right.
36:19It is such a big political party.
36:21Such a big economic activity was going to take place in Pakistan.
36:25No one was talking before that.
36:27No one is talking after that.
36:28So, they have become completely dysfunctional.
36:30They are fighting among themselves and so on.
36:314 lakhs will come, 6 lakhs will come.
36:33That is for later.
36:34So, this government, I think,
36:37regarding that, regarding street agitation,
36:40I don't think there is any fear.
36:42And because of this, this government will remain.
36:45Not that I want.
36:46I want there to be justice.
36:48In the 2024 elections that were held,
36:51the right result should come in front of everyone,
36:54on the basis of Form 45.
36:56And because of that, it will be known,
36:57who is the majority and who is the minority in the assembly.
37:00But having said that, PTI also needs to improve its strategy.
37:06And Kibla also needs to improve its strategy.
37:08Absolutely right.
37:09Mr. Mohammad Zubair, thank you very much for giving us your time.
37:12In this week's last program,
37:14we will meet you on Monday.
37:17Till then, take care. Allah Hafiz.