El gobierno de Milei, en medio de una caída en las encuestas y sin resultados económicos tangibles para los ciudadanos, busca fortalecerse a través de una alianza con el PRO. Se espera que varios funcionarios del PRO se unan al gobierno en áreas clave como economía y energía. Este movimiento también marca un retroceso para Santiago Caputo, quien ha tenido que ceder espacios importantes dentro del gobierno. Además, se discute la situación interna del peronismo y la influencia decreciente de figuras como Macri y Cristina.
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00:00And well, it opens the question of how the government is doing inside as well.
00:03The government inside is in a moment in which the polls fell, if you know,
00:08in which they do not have direct results for the people's pockets, above all.
00:12They have not been able to improve the socio-economic situation of their electorate,
00:16of the majority of Argentines.
00:17So they know they need the PRO to govern.
00:20So, at this time, the alliance of the Emilay government is almost closed
00:24in the province of Buenos Aires with the PRO.
00:27And in the next few days, attention, with many important areas of the government,
00:31above all economic, beyond the energy secretary,
00:35which was a name that brought people closer to Mauricio Macri,
00:38attention with other economic areas, because many PRO officials
00:43or PRO friends of Mauricio Macri will advance to the government.
00:48And this means an Emilay recognizing that they cannot do it alone,
00:52that this idea of Santiago Caputo of
00:54let's try to have only ours, because the PRO is there, tomorrow they are not,
00:58it is not possible, because it is a moment of weakness of the government
01:01and they need the alliance with the PRO.
01:03Very interesting what Winokur raises.
01:05So there is a rearmament and the government can go towards a co-government with Macri?
01:10I don't know if it's a co-government.
01:12What I say is that the electoral alliance is already sealed,
01:14and more Macrists are going to the government.
01:17There was never talk of a co-government, Macri never asked for that,
01:20but what was always raised from the beginning,
01:23and in any case, 11 months were lost from the PRO's point of view,
01:27is that we need to make a parliamentary alliance
01:31that includes management boards in the second and third lines.
01:35That was what Mauricio Macri intended,
01:37something that Emilay in the first instance denied him,
01:40and from the crisis, due to the retirement reform,
01:44and especially due to the universities where the PRO said
01:48I will accompany you here and I will not accompany you anymore,
01:50is that Emilay begins to realize that without the PRO he cannot.
01:54But wait, stop a minute there, I greet Dr. Federico Perkovic.
01:57Fede, how are you?
01:58What's up, Facu, how are you?
01:59Add a little bit to this exchange of information,
02:02and I'm going to the topic of tweets,
02:04because there were many voices that came out to put their position and their opinion.
02:10Do you agree with Pablo that the issue of retirement was a point of inflection?
02:14Yes, it is an issue that was undoubtedly very sensitive,
02:17and in the same way that it had been in 2018 when the mobility formula was modified.
02:22I think it has to do with the number of people who are affected by these measures.
02:29Let's think that we are talking about millions of retirees,
02:32which is a 40 and long percent of the national budget.
02:35Millions of retirees, Fede, and many of the retirees,
02:38and one can recognize in that segment of society, voters of Emilay.
02:43Yes, surely, voters of Emilay, voters of El Pro,
02:46who saw their income affected considerably.
02:52Yes, let's see, it seems to me that the drop in Emilay's popularity
02:57also has to do with the fact that he is fulfilling one of his great campaign promises,
03:01which is to lower inflation,
03:02but that does not mean improving the quality of life of most of his voters,
03:07and many say, well, wait, who was the caste?
03:10That's why I don't know if you saw that in the slogans and speeches of Emilay
03:13and all the officials, the caste does not exist,
03:16because time has passed, the caste has not adjusted, it is alive and hanging,
03:21and yet there are adjustments on the most unprotected sectors and the middle classes.
03:25But beyond that, what they are beginning to wonder,
03:28which was circulating a lot in the posters of the idea conference,
03:31is that the investments do not arrive.
03:33We made a very big adjustment, we approved the RIGI,
03:37and yet the large investments that we had more or less in sight do not end up falling.
03:42The country's risk falls and yet the investments do not come.
03:45So they are a bit misplaced with, well,
03:48we are only going to be able to tie ourselves to the mast of
03:50we have been lowering inflation and nothing more than that.
03:52Yes, an inflation also tied to the dollar,
03:54which is what is denouncing, and returning to this concept of Cristina versus Emilay,
03:58is what Cristina is denouncing.
04:00All that drop, or the in quotes, successes that Emilay can exhibit,
04:05are tied to a financial stability,
04:08very tied to a dollar, low, which was not indexed around inflation.
04:14Argentina was expensive in dollars,
04:16where the financial system is doing business,
04:19but the real economy, at least, does not take off.
04:23At least it does not start to advance.
04:26All the other variables are very weak.
04:29Consumption, industrial activity, construction, etc.
04:32Emilay says we are bouncing back month by month,
04:34but it is still far from turning around.
04:37Yes, and in the legislative field,
04:40where the budget 20-25 is now being played,
04:43which is nothing less, because there are already allied blocks,
04:45or dialogists, at least, that are raising,
04:48we are going to fight again.
04:50The issue of re-composing, in some way, the pensions,
04:54that there are improvements in the financing of different areas,
04:58such as education, which were already vetoed,
05:01and we know everything that happened.
05:03Well, Emilay needs to be very sharp,
05:06to the pro and the governors,
05:08that's why today he eats a roast with his heroes,
05:11the pancake governors, who supported him.
05:13I think Cata and Huino realized the issue of external investment,
05:17because, in short, what Argentina needs are dollars.
05:20Yes, external and internal.
05:22Why would an investment come if there is no ...
05:26Let's see, if it was controlled, as you explained,
05:29quite well, the inflationary issue.
05:31No, and the country's risk began to fall.
05:33Okay, but you don't have a future outlook,
05:36there is still uncertainty,
05:38the president depends on a parliamentary alliance,
05:41there are still many things to correct.
05:44What was spoken in the idea colloquium,
05:46those who could be there, personally and in person,
05:49is this idea that the government is doing the same thing
05:53that Macri did between 2016 and 2017.
05:59He said, we are doing things well and healing the economy,
06:03that's what Macri said, and today says Milley,
06:05and when we win the midterm elections,
06:08be it 2017 or 2025,
06:11there we will have our own parliamentary majority
06:14and we will end up being able to consolidate the course
06:17and bury Kirchnerism.
06:18Exactly the same thing that Macri said
06:20and what Milley is saying now.
06:21What investors feel is that we have already seen this movie.
06:25Yes, Argentina, whoever is in the government,
06:28the truth is that it has a very big legal security problem
06:32and for now Milley has not managed to bury that insecurity,
06:36it is not that it is because of Milley,
06:37it is something historical of Argentina.
06:39Let's see what Milley says, listen to him.
06:43Well, in fact we did it.
06:45And now in 2025 they will go together,
06:47is that clear or is there still a lot to discuss?
06:50For example, in the province of Buenos Aires,
06:52are they going to make an alliance?
06:53We have a high degree of affinity
06:59and we are willing to work together every day
07:03in a much deeper way.
07:07And I imagine that by 2025
07:13it is most likely that we will be together
07:16defending the city of freedom.
07:17In the city too?
07:19My idea is to reach a total confluence
07:24throughout the country.
07:27Well, the city is not so clear,
07:29but the province, yes,
07:30the electoral agreement in the province of Buenos Aires
07:33is almost closed.
07:34Do you have a head, Karina?
07:35And it is the idea.
07:36It is a possibility.
07:37That is not there yet,
07:39but one of the ideas is that it is Karina-Cristina.
07:42Karina versus Cristina, it could be.
07:44The government likes that idea,
07:46but the names are not there yet.
07:48What is closed is that with the pro-
07:50with an electoral alliance next year,
07:52that in the province,
07:53that was a little loose,
07:54is there and that there were approaches
07:56in the last few days,
07:57that it was not so good.
07:58Now you have a parliamentary alliance
08:01that becomes effective when needed.
08:03Until now they voted for everything.
08:05Except for the DNU of intelligence,
08:08they voted absolutely everything in my law.
08:10It is still a low-intensity alliance.
08:13There is no interlocking.
08:16No, but they vote for everything.
08:18It is a political agreement.
08:20A political agreement with its limitations.
08:22When before I mentioned
08:24what Macri originally wanted,
08:26it was to endow the government
08:27with second and third lines,
08:29that started to happen just now,
08:32plus a formal parliamentary alliance,
08:36an interlocking,
08:38and even asking,
08:40at the time he had asked,
08:41the presidency of the chamber
08:42for Cristian Ritondo.
08:43Well, all that did not happen,
08:44and it is not.
08:45That is why the government
08:46is negotiating law by law with the pro.
08:48What happens is that it is very expensive
08:49to negotiate law by law.
08:50Yes, now Ritondo goes up a little on the podium.
08:53He is better with the government,
08:55better respected too.
08:57He made the passes with Menem.
08:59And there, let's say,
09:01we have to look a little more
09:02what is going to happen in that legislative block.
09:04You say that there is an effective parliamentary alliance,
09:07which is law by law,
09:09that Macri manages to endow
09:11the government with technical blocks.
09:13In areas that matter to him.
09:14Amanti is an example.
09:15Because Macri is playing his own game too.
09:17I don't know if Macri is thinking of the pro
09:19as a political force,
09:21but in areas that matter to him,
09:23in decisions that matter to him,
09:25justice, economy, energy.
09:28But he is the president of the pro.
09:30Santiago Caputo was copying him
09:32and he did not give place,
09:33Santiago Caputo,
09:34to the requests of Macri.
09:36He is the president of the pro.
09:37Is it a step back from Santiago Caputo?
09:39Yes.
09:40It is a step back from Santiago Caputo.
09:42And the example is in that last meeting they had
09:45and in giving way to
09:47the place of the Secretary of Energy,
09:49María Tetamanti.
09:50It is a more than key area.
09:52It is the Secretary of Energy in this government.
09:55And the pro has it.
09:56It is like that.
09:57Someone very close to her has it.
09:58María Tetamanti is on the teams of Patricia Bullrich
10:00when Patricia Bullrich was Macri's candidate
10:02to the presidency,
10:03which seems to have happened 50 years ago,
10:05but it was last year.
10:06Of course.
10:07And it is a person that Daniel González,
10:09who is also in Energy,
10:10brings to the government of my law
10:12to put it in a problematic issue.
10:14Now, I come from the government to Peronism.
10:16How does Pablo follow the history
10:18of the internal of the party?
10:20A very complicated internal.
10:22The analysis that people who follow
10:25close to Peronism do,
10:26people, leaders, intermediaries,
10:28is that ...
10:29Very complicated for whom?
10:30For Cristina Kirchner.
10:31For Cristina Kirchner.
10:32That Cristina lost on Saturday.
10:36Cristina lost on Saturday
10:38when she could not block
10:40the presentation of Ricardo Quintela
10:42as an internal competitor in Peronism.
10:44Regardless of that,
10:46when one looks at the names
10:48that accompany one and the other,
10:49Cristina obviously exhibits
10:51a huge strength
10:53and Quintela, a poverty.
10:55The only weight figure
10:57that accompanies Quintela
10:58is Alberto Rodríguez.
11:00And Victoria Tolosa Paz.
11:03Also, I think it is a figure
11:05that at least was a minister,
11:07has an important range,
11:08has a trajectory.
11:09A part of Albertism.
11:12For example,
11:13Kelly Olmos, her minister of labor,
11:16integrates the list.
11:17Cristina was without the camphor,
11:19or at least not above the camphor.
11:21The camphor is mixed.
11:25They do not have it in the first 5 or 6 positions,
11:28but then below they started ...
11:30And that's how they sold it.
11:32Above they are not.
11:34Below you start to see
11:36one of Peronism and another of the camphor.
11:38It is topped by the camphor
11:40and that's how it is now.
11:41But Cata, when you see the first names,
11:44you see, there is no camphor,
11:46there is federal representation
11:48and there is union representation.
11:50He just issued a statement to the CGT,
11:52now if you want we will tell you.
11:54But Cristina lost.
11:56Because 5 years ago, 2 years ago,
11:58Cristina said,
12:00I am the candidate.
12:01And there was no one who forced her.
12:03And today, not only
12:05someone appeared who says,
12:07I do not care what Cristina wants to do,
12:09with little weight and little relevance,
12:11but you have to see who supported Cristina.
12:14Who did they say?
12:15Quintela, Mr. Bagesé.
12:17Axel Kicillof said Mr. Bagesé?
12:19No.
12:20Silioto de la Pampa said Mr. Bagesé?
12:23No.
12:24Jalil, governor of Catamarca,
12:27said Mr. Bagesé?
12:28No.
12:29And so we can review each of the governors,
12:31not even Gildo Infrán said Mr. Bagesé?
12:34In any case, beyond the fact that it is true
12:36and that Cristina, even for her personality,
12:39would have loved to be acclaimed
12:41by the entire unit of Peronism,
12:43as an undisputed leader and the only candidate
12:45of the National PJ.
12:47Beyond that, today,
12:49tomorrow this is a dynamic scenario
12:51and there is so much left for an election,
12:53but today there is no Peronist
12:55who stands up and measures,
12:57let's say, who beats Cristina.
12:59Because here, basically,
13:01they don't want Cristina to be,
13:02but nobody beats her in the elections.
13:04What Cata says, in some way,
13:05is who has the votes.
13:06Of course, because, I mean,
13:07Cristina can't do it alone,
13:08but nobody beats her.
13:09Give me the statement.
13:10But here it's not just votes.
13:11Give me the statement of the CGT, let's see.
13:13Go ahead.
13:14There it is, CGT.
13:15For what President Javier Milei said
13:18about Peronism and Kirchnerism,
13:20we reject the political violence of the president.
13:24The use and abuse of verbal violence
13:26by the president
13:28show his reprehensible political intolerance
13:31and damage the healthy exercise
13:33of democratic coexistence.
13:35From the CGT, we reject the political violence
13:37exercised by the president
13:39by erasing all the limits of democratic confrontation,
13:42encouraging the death of whoever was twice
13:44president of the Argentines.
13:46Yes, there was no crack in any space
13:48of Peronism,
13:49even with those who are in the worst internal
13:51with Christianism,
13:52El Cuervo, La Roque, Axel, Kicillof,
13:54all, let's say, the Kicillofism
13:56being super attacked by La Cámpora,
13:58they all jumped with messages saying
14:00Milei, stop the hand,
14:02defending Cristina.
14:03There is no crack there.
14:05The crack is going to be due to the candidacies,
14:07the midterm elections are missing next year,
14:09but there is so much left,
14:10that is, today is like everything very soon.
14:12The only photo to say,
14:13today Cristina, well,
14:14is not acclaimed by everyone inside,
14:16at least they are encouraged.
14:18But it is something that two years ago did not happen.
14:20No, of course.
14:21In fact, when one thinks
14:22what the candidacies were
14:24of 2023,
14:25it was a day before,
14:26Cristina saying,
14:27you are not, run away,
14:29you come, you are.
14:30Until the last moment,
14:31who was going to be
14:32Axel Kicillof's formula partner
14:33was being discussed.
14:34So,
14:35that leadership
14:36and that centrality
14:37that Cristina had in Kicillofism,
14:39in Peronism,
14:40today I would tell you that
14:42at least it is in discussion.
14:43And there are many Kicillofist voters
14:45who tell Cristina,
14:46you chose by hand,
14:47without letting us choose anything,
14:49your candidates,
14:50who were all outside
14:51of what are the typical Kicillofist ideas.
14:54And now you have Kicillof,
14:55who is more Kicillofist
14:56than Kicillof,
14:57there is no follower
14:58of Cristina's doctrine,
15:00and you do not ban him.
15:01So there are also many voters
15:03in there and militants,
15:05pay attention to that,
15:06of the bases of ultra-Kicillofism
15:08we are talking about,
15:09not Peronism,
15:10Kicillofism,
15:11because Kicillof was the branch
15:12of Cristina.
15:13Well, back to Kicillof.
15:14Yes,
15:15what this weekend
15:16had a very strong statement too.
15:17A Kicillof who remembered
15:19that the happiest days were
15:22Cristinistas,
15:23talking about the future,
15:24talking about the future
15:25in that statement.
15:26They were,
15:27he talked about the past
15:28and as Cata says,
15:29looking forward.
15:30He wants to write
15:31a new song
15:32and does not want to feel
15:33that he is with Cristina's finger,
15:35that he has already won elections
15:36and does not want to get
15:37into the internal affairs
15:38and in the statement
15:39of the weekend
15:40while everyone was waiting
15:41and Lacampora was telling him
15:42why Axel does not support Cristina,
15:44he said,
15:45I do not want to get
15:46into the internal affairs,
15:47unity, unity, unity,
15:48we are playing my law.
15:49Cata, because apart
15:50from being a Kicillof
15:51candidate,
15:52I think he wants to get
15:53as little protection
15:54as possible for Cristina
15:55if he gets there.
15:56Yes,
15:57because he also has
15:58a problem inside today.
15:59You have to see it,
16:00because Bervisky,
16:01who is clearly a Cristinista
16:02and many times expresses
16:03the same opinion
16:04of Cristina de Máximo
16:05this weekend,
16:06put on the rocket
16:07to the moon,
16:08what will be of you
16:09Axel far from home,
16:10which sounded
16:11a bit like a threat
16:12at least.
16:13And there,
16:14that idea
16:15of being a Kicillof
16:16candidate
16:17has been
16:18quite strong
16:19at least today.
16:20Every time someone
16:21wanted to plant
16:22Cristina,
16:23well,
16:24the Kicillof
16:25apparatus
16:26did not make her
16:27have a good time.
16:28You have to see
16:29what happens.
16:30But at a time
16:31when there were no
16:32votes on the other
16:33side,
16:34I mean,
16:35where Cristina
16:36had guaranteed
16:37her flow of votes
16:38and today it is not known.
16:39Axel Kicillof,
16:40what he says is,
16:41I am the governor
16:42of the most important
16:43province in the country.
16:44And they voted for him
16:45and he won by a lot.
16:46I am the one who won,
16:47more than the
16:48national candidates.
16:49Let's review
16:50what Cata says.
16:51Kicillof gets
16:5253 points.
16:53Yes.
16:54But if you review
16:55the candidate
16:56that El Peronismo
16:57has,
16:58who was Maza,
16:59in the three elections.
17:00Yes,
17:01it is relative.
17:02I know what you are going
17:03to say.
17:04Well.
17:05You have to see the numbers.
17:06Review the numbers.
17:07But wait,
17:08let's remember that
17:09in the province of
17:10Buenos Aires
17:11there are people who vote
17:12in the provincial
17:13and do not vote in the national.
17:14That also explains
17:15a part of the difference.
17:16In general,
17:17the cut of tickets
17:18is very low.
17:19I am not saying
17:20that it is not a phenomenon,
17:21but what you have to consider
17:22is,
17:23let's see,
17:24did the people vote
17:25Axel Kicillof?
17:26Yes.
17:27Did he win?
17:28Did he revalidate his title?
17:29Yes.
17:30Why can't I lead?
17:31Regardless of how many votes
17:32more or less he got
17:33from the national candidate.
17:34That is what Kicillof
17:35considers.
17:36That is what Kicillof
17:37considers.
17:38Here, Kicillof
17:39has two scenarios.
17:40One is the long-term one,
17:41which is,
17:42if he can be the leader
17:43of El Peronismo,
17:44of Quintanarismo,
17:45and the other one
17:46is the short-term one,
17:47which he raises
17:48in his weekly statement
17:49and says,
17:50about those who are
17:51part of the cabinet,
17:52I am very proud
17:53of the work they are doing
17:54and I wish they
17:55continue to do it.
17:56Yes, because he has
17:57many ministers of the Cámpora.
17:58The problem with Kicillof
17:59is that every time
18:00he wants to pass a law,
18:01he does not have his own people.
18:02That is why he wants
18:03to put together the lists.
18:04He has to depend
18:05on the Cámpora,
18:06on the people of Máximo
18:07and on the people of Massa.
18:08There are no Kicillofists,
18:09let's say.
18:10Of course.
18:11So he needs
18:12his own strength
18:13and he needs to say,
18:14if I am going to be a candidate
18:15and I am governing,
18:16I need my own people
18:17to be more aligned
18:18with my own agenda.
18:19A comment.
18:20What is similar
18:21to what happens
18:22to Kicillof
18:23than to what happened
18:24to La Reta,
18:25right?
18:26With Macri.
18:27Let's see.
18:28Of course,
18:29when he wanted to be
18:30candidate for president
18:31of La Reta
18:32in 2019,
18:332020,
18:342021,
18:35etc.,
18:36he had to get rid
18:37of the political leader
18:38of the space,
18:39who was Macri.
18:40A very good note
18:41by Roa in Clarín,
18:42to say, well,
18:43he can't kill his father,
18:44it would be like
18:45killing his father.
18:46La Reta tried to kill Macri,
18:47let's say,
18:48psychologically,
18:49Freudianly,
18:50and now Kicillof,
18:51somehow,
18:52is not trying
18:53to kill Cristina,
18:54but he is trying
18:55to write a new song
18:56and get rid
18:57of his finger.
18:58Macri himself,
18:59in more personal terms,
19:00can give a lecture
19:01on killing his father
19:02in psychoanalytic terms,
19:03because he has brought
19:04him many problems
19:05throughout his life.
19:06But he has not
19:07let him grow.
19:08Macri and Cristina
19:09are no longer
19:10what they were,
19:11they no longer
19:12have enough
19:13to win today,
19:14because everything
19:15can happen.
19:16In 2017,
19:17Cristina is a candidate
19:18and she wins.
19:19Sorry,
19:20I contrast it to you,
19:21Cata,
19:22that.
19:23I don't know,
19:24in the extremes,
19:25how much
19:26the captive vote
19:27that has both
19:28Miley and Cristina
19:29can be despised.
19:3025 points?
19:3115 points.
19:32No,
19:33I don't know.
19:34What captive vote?
19:35No, no, Pablo.
19:36Speaking of votes,
19:37Cristina measures very well
19:38in the province
19:39of Buenos Aires,
19:40she has a hard core,
19:41very noisy
19:42and very hard,
19:43and above all,
19:44in these moments
19:45in which Miley,
19:46again,
19:47her relationship
19:48with people
19:49is beginning
19:50to get wet.
19:51Argument that.
19:52Cristina,
19:53what numbers do you have?
19:54No,
19:55let's see,
19:56the truth is that
19:57in this case,
19:58first of all,
19:59the polls.
20:00Are there any polls
20:01on the weekend
20:02of Suba in Córdoba?
20:03Yes,
20:04but I don't think
20:05the polls are serious.
20:06Let's see why.
20:07With all due respect,
20:08the truth is that
20:09they have never
20:10been good
20:11in the province
20:12of Buenos Aires.
20:13They measure very well
20:14in the province
20:15of Buenos Aires.
20:16Now,
20:17from here to 20,
20:1825 midterm elections,
20:19from here to 20,
20:2027,
20:21I don't know,
20:22Facu,
20:23the truth is
20:24what you are looking at
20:25is that Miley goes down
20:26and Cristina goes up.
20:27Miley goes down
20:28and Cristina goes up,
20:29is that it?
20:30In the province
20:31of Buenos Aires,
20:32yes.
20:33I don't have that number,
20:34but it could be.
20:35I'm not saying no.
20:36Miley,
20:37Miley never did well
20:38in the province
20:39of Buenos Aires.
20:40I think the core
20:41of both Cristina
20:42and Miley
20:43is 15 points.
20:44Maybe Miley
20:45a little more.
20:4615 points, Pablo.
20:47Isn't it little, 15 points?
20:4815 points.
20:4915 points?
20:50Alone.
20:51You're talking about
20:52a Peronism that came out,
20:53I repeat,
20:54with Kicillof
20:55as a candidate,
20:5653 in the province
20:57of Buenos Aires.
20:58How many?
20:5953?
21:00Yes,
21:01but in part
21:02of a coalition.
21:03Okay.
21:04And Maza
21:05in the province
21:06of Buenos Aires.
21:07In the three elections
21:08and Cristina.
21:09Okay, but Cristina
21:10is not Peronism.
21:11You are talking
21:12about a coalition.
21:13Can you be the president
21:14of the party?
21:15Now I'm going to look,
21:16there is a very interesting
21:17survey from the consultant
21:18Opina Argentina,
21:19no, sorry,
21:20Opinaia,
21:21Opinaia,
21:22who asks who
21:23is the leader
21:24of the opposition
21:25and he asks
21:26not everyone.
21:27Who is standing
21:28in front of Miley?
21:29Yes.
21:30That's the question.
21:31Yes.
21:32Who?
21:33But it's very interesting
21:34when you make the disaggregation,
21:35you ask the general population
21:36who is the leader
21:37of the opposition
21:38and the vast majority
21:39say Cristina.
21:40Yes.
21:41But wait,
21:42when you ask
21:43the voter
21:44of the ballot box
21:45of Maza
21:46who is the leader
21:47of the opposition,
21:48there is no longer
21:49Cristina.
21:50There is a bias
21:51where the official
21:52voter of Miley
21:53sees in Cristina
21:54all the evils
21:55and the axis
21:56of the opposition.
21:57When you start
21:58looking and disaggregating,
21:59you see that the figure
22:00of Kaxel Kicillof
22:01is very strong,
22:02that the figure
22:03of Cristina, of course,
22:04is very strong
22:05and that there are
22:06many, many other
22:07candidates
22:08who are not
22:09the same
22:10as Cristina.
22:11Yes,
22:12but it is very soon
22:13to think in terms of
22:14measure or not measure
22:15who is going to win
22:16an election.
22:17For me it is interesting
22:18to look at the phenomenon
22:19today that there is
22:20a part of Peronism
22:21that was breathed
22:22into Cristina
22:23and what to see
22:24happens with Kicillof
22:25and Kichenerism,
22:26to see that relationship,
22:27to see what happens
22:28because we have
22:29the experiment
22:30of the challenge,
22:31we have the experiment
22:32of what Kichenerism
22:33did with Cristina
22:34and with every candidate
22:35Candidate
22:37Suppose you can see love it's a single distinct all okay, so la reta
22:41It's interesting
22:43Separa de mano
22:45Lo que se paraba la reta igual y no se metió en la interna hablando de tres años por delante no por supuesto
22:51pero pensé lo que hacía la reta en esta época se diferencia en esta época del año estábamos en plena pandemia en 2020 y la
22:58reta decía hay que mantener las restricciones
23:00Sanitarias abrir un poquito que se llama cristaba con bullrich diciendo hay que abrir todo
23:07había una
23:08diferenciación y es más te voy a decir la
23:11diferenciación conceptual que puede hacer la reta respecto a macri es mucho mayor de la que puede hacer kicillof respecto a cristina cuál es la
23:16diferencia de fondo entre ellos dos
23:18cuál es la diferencia y me parece que eso es lo que también está en cuestionamiento
23:22cuál es la diferencia en qué piensan distinto que si no volver un minutito a preparar el momento en que el presidente
23:28Dispara esa frase tan contundente que motiva obviamente este debate te quiero preguntar algo vino curry kata
23:38Por supuesto
23:40La interpretación que hay que hacer es quién le recomienda esto a mi ley
23:46de la guerra contra cristina
23:48digo claramente
23:50Haber
23:52A ellos está clarísimo que al gobierno
23:55sea la opositora a ver escuchar a ver
23:58yo también hay una parte de morbo y que me encantaría meterle el último clavo al cajón del kircher himo con que insistir
24:05adentro
24:06bueno es interesante que mi ley antes de decirlo
24:10habla del morbo
24:12Es violento las expresiones son repudiables por supuesto arrancar por eso y son violentas y no sorprende de mi ley
24:19Ahora que le conviene y el kirchnerismo es el cuco
24:22la gente votó que se vaya a lo que gobernó anteriormente y lo que
24:27anteriormente fue el kirchnerismo entonces no hay nada mejor que cristina
24:32Curioso
24:33el asesor en imagen y principal de discurso es santiago caputo yo no puedo asegurar que estas frases se le haya dicho santiago caputo
24:41si
24:44Ante macri sigue siendo el principal asesor de hecho lo dijo en otro tramo de la
24:50El otro tramo de la entrevista lo dijo el propio mi ley y si uno mira en redes sociales
24:55Quién es el que tiene el discurso más agresivo y más cercano a esto es santiago caputo con sus múltiples cuentas fakes no fakes
25:02en las sombras digamos
25:04Donde directamente agrede de esta misma manera habla de mogólicos habla de cuestiones el discurso es el de santiago caputo otro capítulo que podríamos abordar
25:12Nuevamente el ataque del presidente contra el periodismo al decir que el 85 por ciento de los medios de los medios mienten
25:21Nuevas derechas o estos nuevos líderes que han surgido es una estrategia vieja tram lo viene haciendo hace un montón
25:27yo me acuerdo a este año cuando fui al viaje con el departamento de estado de eeuu que recorrían los estados y la gente
25:33Nos decía mentirosos a los periodistas pero los periodistas mienten está inculcado en estos nuevos líderes
25:40Ser políticamente incorrecto ser cruel está un poco de moda
25:45Ser como trump básicamente y mi ley no inventó la pólvora
25:49Incluso muchas veces acá se pasa cinco peaje no no es una narrativa de campaña y la gente ni bien te ponés a gobernar
25:57empieza a reclamar no
26:00De lo que pasó con trump y lo que pasó con bolsonaro trump apunta de volver al poder
26:05Bolsonaro que mantiene niveles popularidad
26:09Construye relato que cucarda de gestión se puede poner hoy el gobierno bueno se puede poner una nación la inflación que no es menor
26:16Que no es poca cosa de vos mirás al kirchnerismo y decir maquinita maquinita de lo económico fue un desastre nos trajeron hasta acá
26:22Por eso la gente no quiere que vuelva al kirchnerismo y mi ley bajo la inflación
26:26Tiene una gran bandera y por eso seguramente el año que viene en las elecciones en medio término con una experiencia tan fresca del desastre
26:33Que fue el gobierno de alberto de cristina le vaya muy bien hasta ahí falta muy profundizo un poco más un poco más
26:39Cuánta paciencia tiene la gente para seguir escuchando ya no sabe y bueno
26:44Lo que se le empezó a mojar la pólvora a mi ley ya rompió ya la gente dice ché loco
26:49todo bien me sale más caro ir a trabajar que quedarme en mi casa a trabajar y eso o el jubilado no tiene para comprar el
26:56remedio
26:57remedio fedes claro además de además de ese
27:01Sustancial la baja en el en el ingreso real del jubilado pero aparte todos los medicamentos que salieron de la cobertura gratuita
27:09está totalmente desorganizada la vida del jubilado de trabajadores con esto cuánto resiste y pablo de esto
27:17bueno por eso hay que verle hay una encuesta de la consultora proyección
27:22Que me que le pregunta a la gente desde hace un mes más o menos
27:26Antes de que empiece la caída en las encuestas de la popularidad de mi ley le pregunta a la gente cuánto está dispuesto a aguantar
27:32El ajuste económico no es esta esta es otra ahora le hacemos referencia si quieren pero y le pregunta y cada vez menos gente
27:39está dispuesta a aguantar más de un año que justamente lo que falta para las elecciones
27:43si el gobierno no puede mostrar una reactivación económica con la baja de la inflación solo no alcanza
27:49Me parece que
27:51Necesita mostrar la gente necesita sentir que empieza a estar un poquito mejor no te digo llegar a los niveles de el consumo
27:58ficticio mentiroso que había en algún momento hace dos años pero sí por lo menos que haya una cierta tranquilidad de bolsillo
28:05en esa encuesta que acabamos de mostrar ahí está mira esto de agosto si pasó mucha agua bajo el puente pero
28:12fíjate ahí está lo que yo te decía
28:14quién es el líder de la oposición entre los votantes el balotaje de masa que no son toques neristo no 15 por ciento bueno