The UN’s Christophe Yvetot discusses the importance of solidarity in achieving the SDGs.
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00:00The reindustrialization of the North cannot happen without the resources that are in the South.
00:04Even the world waste should be eliminated from the vocabulary.
00:15Welcome to the Big Question, a series from Euronews where we discuss some of the most
00:21important topics on the business agenda. I'm Angela Barnes and today I'm joined by Christophe
00:28from the United Nations Industrial Development Organization. Christophe,
00:33thank you very much for joining us on the show. It's a pleasure to have you with us.
00:37Thank you very much for having me.
00:38Well, Christophe, so a big part of UNIDO's work is focusing
00:42on the UN Sustainable Development Goal, of course, and Goal 9 is a big part of that.
00:47But in 2023, only 15% of all sustainable development goals were on track for 2030.
00:56So how is Goal 9 doing now, Christophe?
00:59So Goal 9 is about resilient infrastructure,
01:04inclusive and sustainable industrialization and innovation. We have issued a report on
01:10well-being and industrialization. Of course, you might think that it's an oxymoron, that it's
01:15really something that is opposing. But when you are in Europe and then go to a poor country,
01:20you will see that everything we have, social security, the right to vacuum, to have some
01:27leave, the wealth that we have is because we were industrialized after the COVID-19 pandemic.
01:35And also because of the various wars and the energy crisis, SDG 9 is not on track.
01:41But we think that if we put more effort, if we invest, if we work together, we think that SDG 9
01:48can be boosted and achievements in SDG 9 can really improve also the delivery of all SDGs.
01:59Because why? Every time you add value to a product, you need more skills. So more skills
02:06means higher revenue. Higher revenue means that you can live better. You can pay tax to the state.
02:13The state can pay for education, for health, for all kinds of social services and infrastructure.
02:19If we don't have this base, you cannot pay all of this.
02:23There's an estimated $4 billion funding gap to achieve
02:27all the SDGs. Where can this money come from to make this happen?
02:31There's a lot of money that is now invested. You see the IRA, Inflation Reduction Act in the US.
02:38You've seen the big plan, recovery plan of Europe, $750 billion to invest in new technologies,
02:46in climate-friendly technologies. But you see there's a need for more solidarity.
02:52Because most of the countries of the world, through the COVID-19 crisis, they've been more
02:58indebted. They are more in suffering than before. And we need a solidarity. Because if we fight
03:05climate in Europe or the US or China is very good. But if we don't do it in the rest of the world,
03:14we are not going to make progress. So we need this solidarity to create the jobs that are
03:18needed in the South, but also to accompany them through this process of transitioning
03:25from fossil fuel energy to decarbonized energy.
03:35And Christophe, a sustainable industrialization, it always feels like a bit of an oxymoron.
03:41How do you envisage the balance?
03:44So in the past, we know that industrialization has also had a very strong footprint on environment.
03:52At the same time, we are now in an industrial civilization. Everything around us is industrial.
03:59We all benefit from the services and products that are created every day. Now the big challenge
04:07is to make sure that everything that is produced has the least impact on the environment. This is
04:13what we call eco-design. So from the start, when you start to envisage to have a new service or
04:20a new product, you should envisage already from the start what will be the impact. So this is
04:26possible. We have seen through what we call the circular economy that we can make sure we avoid
04:33waste and we can make sure that even the word waste should be eliminated from the vocabulary
04:41because waste doesn't exist. It's only a raw material that you don't use. You haven't found
04:47the way to use a raw material. So we could utilize all the material more efficiently.
04:53You know, I participated with our organization in the first package of the EU on circular economy.
05:02We are one of the promoters of circular economy around the world and we see not only that it
05:07decreased the cost of production, but also you create new jobs because instead of wasting or
05:15throwing away raw material, you use it to create new industries on this basis.
05:21And this is really something that is profitable for everyone.
05:24Interesting because there have been criticisms that achieving some of the more economic industrial
05:29goals will prevent the ability to achieve emissions or ecological goals. Is each goal
05:35given the same importance focus do you think and should they be given the same level?
05:40I mean all those are big challenges and for sure you have maybe some SDGs which will be the
05:50consequence of others. Let me make a clear example. In SDG 9, we have an inclusive and
05:57sustainable industrialization. It means, for example, I was posted five years in Senegal, in Africa.
06:04So most of the products, fruit or vegetables, for example, that are produced, a part of them are lost
06:14in the way, what we call the post-harvest losses. And also they are most of the time sold without
06:20any local transformation. I mean if we would work to add more value on the ground, train the people,
06:28have the machinery to transform the fruit in fruit juice and all those agricultural products,
06:34that would create many jobs. Many jobs mean that you would have a direct impact on goal one,
06:40on poverty. Goal two, on hunger. Many times women are those working in those activities,
06:47so it would be goal four, on the equality. If you do utilize the machinery that is more
06:56resource efficient, you can also contribute to all the goals related to the environment.
07:02What we recommend is to invest more on industry because industry can have a big impact on the
07:10other goals. What we have seen also with a new report is that every time that you have more
07:16industry in the GDP or in the wealth of a country, you have quasi automatically more human development.
07:25It means more access to education, more access to health services, more life expectancy,
07:32more equality between men and women. So you have a direct impact on social goals, on human goals.
07:40So since the COVID-19 pandemic and since your time in Senegal as well,
07:50do you think that there is more support in place now for poorer countries?
07:53I think in the long run, at the moment, many countries are looking more inwards than outwards
07:59and that's what we fear, that countries through their move of re-industrialization themselves,
08:07one of the mega trends that we have seen in the last 30 years is that, for example, the US
08:14and Europe have seen their contribution to international manufacturing reduced by half.
08:23So there's a strong move now to re-industrialize. What we believe is that while this is legitimate,
08:33because people need jobs also here, is that many of those resources are in the global south.
08:40So what we believe is that we should work more together to have more solidarity, but also it's a
08:48win-win. I think countries should think more how to co-industrialize. In the north you need
08:56re-industrialization, in the south you need industrialization and many resources are in the
09:01south. So the re-industrialization of the north cannot happen without the resources that are in
09:07the south. So now how to build this partnership, win-win partnership, where those having the
09:15resources share them, but also they keep also a part of the wealth to create jobs, so that people
09:24see that, okay, they trade their resources, but they see also improvements in their everyday life,
09:29that people have jobs, people are more prosperous and this is what they are looking for.
09:34And there is a statistic, Christophe, that almost 60% of low-income countries face difficulty
09:41paying their debts. If we write off debts, could this help them invest in sustainable
09:47development goals? We hope if this would happen we would be happy. I know that there were efforts
09:54at international level to at least increase their fiscal space. I mean it's a bit technical,
10:00but maybe they could, you know, there was a big support by the IMF, the International Monetary
10:07Fund, that provided like 650 billion for the G20 countries. But if you look at Africa countries,
10:16they got only 35 billion for the 54 countries. Can you imagine? And so there were efforts being
10:25made so that those rich countries not utilizing those what we call special drawing rights could
10:33give a part to developing countries. It seems that we have reached, last year we had reached already
10:38100 billion, so that would be a way also to have for them to be able to have more also access to
10:46finance, because without finance we are not going to succeed.
10:57Ursula von der Leyen has pledged as well her new clean industry deal. Do you think that goes far
11:04enough? I think there will never be enough, but at least there's a clear direction. And I think
11:11that if we really want to mobilize all parts of society, public sector, private sector, civil
11:18society, NGOs, whoever, you need to give a clear political direction. So this direction is quite
11:25clear. Now what is needed is also a public investment, and this public investment that
11:32can really leverage the private investment. There's a lot of money, more than we think,
11:38and if well invested, we think that we can really leverage all the society toward this goal. Of
11:45course, the effort made in some parts needs to be made also globally, otherwise what we see,
11:53private sector complain sometimes that they have many rules to comply with, and maybe their
12:01competitors don't have that. So it's very important to make sure we have a global playing
12:07field, as we said, that everyone will apply also the importance of those roles. And Christophe,
12:13finally, if you had to summarize one key thing that we need to get right that could unlock big
12:20change across Europe and across the globe for sustainable development goals, what would that be?
12:27First, we need to really support industry, because without industry, you don't have human
12:33development and prosperity. Second, we need, of course, this industry fuelled by sustainable
12:40energy. Without energy and sustainable energy, we will never reach our goal in terms of climate.
12:46Christophe, thank you very much for your insights. It's been an absolute pleasure
12:50talking to you. Thank you very much for joining us on The Big Question.
12:53Thank you very much.