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00:00I was just a boy, everybody told me, what I should do, who I should be
00:28Ain't never understood the kind of man I am, I do my own thinking, got a lot of big plans to stand back
00:35Stand back!
00:38In the new world, ready for the top, never slowing down and I'm never gonna stop
00:45Along the way you're gonna see a lot of men drop, baby watch them drop, baby, baby, ready for the top
00:53Stand back!
00:56Stand back!
01:05Stand back!
01:07Stand back!
01:19Every man for himself and they're on the hook, they're at the moment, Cleaning House and a hockey top man, look at him!
01:25Professional wrestling, it's always been popular but lately it's been emerging from second rate arenas to attract a whole new generation of fans
01:3484 and 85 was a very pivotal year in wrestling, things were changing rapidly
01:40WrestleMania 1 was very, very successful
01:43Vince was ahead of everyone when it came to understanding how to market and you know, had the more modern product and he had the bigger stars
01:50This once scoring pastime has grown so trendy that NBC will soon begin a regular late night television program combining rock, comedy and wrestling
02:00Saturday Night's Main Event was on NBC late night, whenever Saturday Night Live takes a break and had a big impact on the perception of the business
02:10That was a real big deal to be on network television
02:15My love, my life, wrestling is on network television
02:23Oh my god, that was crazy
02:26Oh yeah, Morgan scoops him up
02:30When you look at pivotal moments in our industry, Saturday Night's Main Event was a huge coup
02:44So WrestleMania is this huge success and they start doing more TV shows, more live shows
02:53Now they're out there every night touring the country
02:56But you're doing all of this on the backs of the wrestlers who have to work twice as hard to make the business grow
03:04We wrestled seven days a week, I don't know if people knew that or not, we had no time off
03:09It was seven days a week, 52 weeks a year and so it was pretty hard ground
03:18I just wish they'd give me just a few more days off a year
03:21They could have been better at managing the schedule, especially in the late 80s when it was just a disaster
03:29The schedule now, I don't think it's that bad and they're on guaranteed contracts so they're not under the same pressure to reform while hurt
03:37In the 80s, if you were hurt and didn't wrestle, you were not paid
03:42Because of that, you wrestled hurt all the time and the injuries got worse and worse and worse and you used painkillers
03:50It was brutal, but at that time it was about capturing the most amount of money and that is how they did it
03:58Wrestlers as a group were often exploited
04:01These wrestlers were not unionized, they didn't have medical protection
04:07There was definitely a need for a union wrestling, that's what Jesse Ventura was trying to do
04:12Please welcome Jesse the Body Ventura
04:16Right before WrestleMania 2, Jesse was trying to start a union and undermine Vince
04:22I'm here to make sure that Vince McMahon tells it like it is
04:26You know, I was on Vince McMahon's team all the way so I went straight to Vince and said, hey Jesse's stirring shit up man
04:32You know, he's trying to start a union here and next thing you know you're going to have a bunch of wrestlers walk out on you in Madison Square Garden and just want to let you know what's up
04:41Hulk Hogan double crossed Jesse and ratted out all the guys that were trying to get a union going
04:45Hulk Hogan stooged him out
04:47Hogan ratted him out
04:49The whole thing was a sham, it was something that he pulled out of the air, mostly like, well we should get together
04:56And quite frankly, no one in the locker room would ever get behind Jesse
05:00So what Vince would do, he'd call each wrestler one by one
05:03He's like, I know about the meeting, everybody that showed up for this meeting would not have a job in the morning
05:08So nobody showed up
05:10It was almost always acknowledged that these guys would never go for it and these guys would never stick together
05:15And the wrestlers would tell me that too
05:17We say boycott WrestleMania altogether and then half the guys are going to go back and do it and undercut us
05:22Unionizing never happened and I think it's actually less likely to happen now than it was right before WrestleMania 2
05:31WrestleMania 2, what the world has come to
05:35Okay, WrestleMania 1 was such a huge success
05:38So what do you do to top this?
05:40Oh, I know
05:44We'll have an event from New York
05:46We'll have one from Chicago
05:48And we'll have one from LA
05:50Three shows in one day?
05:53Okay, that's kind of impressive
05:55WrestleMania 2 and the three cities, that was a disaster
05:59To try to send a signal from three different cities
06:03It felt like we weren't in control
06:05Vince could not be in all three places
06:08Beg your pardon? We have technical problems
06:10I just remember after that, Vince goes, we'll never do that again
06:15WrestleMania 2 was a success in that it made money and that it wasn't a total catastrophe
06:23But even if it was a commercial success, it wasn't a spectacle on the level of WrestleMania 1
06:31So WrestleMania 3 then was like, hmm, what am I going to do?
06:37I knew there was a very large stadium in Pontiac, Michigan
06:41It seats 93,000 people or something like that
06:44It was almost like, wow, did you really do that?
06:49And I thought with the right attraction we could
06:52And that involved Andre the Giant
06:54Andre the Giant, ladies and gentlemen, is the only undefeated superstar in professional wrestling
07:01Hogan vs. Andre
07:06Even though they had met many times in the past
07:09In order to sell tickets, we would sell it as if they had never met
07:13But I had to convince Andre to come back to the business
07:17At the time, Andre's health was failing him
07:21He needed a crazy back surgery, as I recall
07:25Andre did a film in the UK
07:28And just was going to cash his chips in
07:31I've done as much as I can in the business
07:33I'm hurting, I can't move, I'm in pain
07:37So I went over in the middle of that filming and said, Andre, here's what I want to do
07:40I want you to get the operation that you refused to get
07:44And I want you to come back
07:46And I want you to draw the largest crowd that's ever been drawn
07:50How many seeds, boss?
07:5293,000
07:55He laughs
07:56I said, no, Andre, I'm serious
07:58You vs. Hogan, with the way we can present this
08:01You as the heel
08:03Because he had never been a heel, a bad guy
08:05He was always, you know, a baby face
08:08So he thought about it
08:10And, ok, I'll get the operation
08:14I'm here for one reason
08:16To challenge you for a world championship match in WrestleMania
08:22Are you or are you not gonna fight him in WrestleMania 3?
08:26Yes or no?
08:28Yes!
08:34It was such a huge promotion
08:37They're talking about it not only here but all over the world
08:39Heavyweight champion Hulk Hogan
08:41To defend his crown against challenger Andre the Giant
08:45So great is the lore that WrestleMania 3 will draw the largest audience ever to witness
08:50An indoor sporting or entertainment event in the history of the world
08:54We sold 93,000 seeds
08:57We're expecting fans from France, Germany, Africa, South America, the Orient
09:01All over the world
09:03Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the magnificent Super Bowl
09:10And welcome to WrestleMania 3
09:16And now, the Queen of Soul
09:21Miss Aretha Franklin
09:31Take a look, Jesse
09:33It's unreal history will be made here this afternoon at the Pontiac Silverdome
09:38Oh, Beaver just completed a shot on the post
09:41Oh, he brought in with a sleeper from behind with a kick
09:44Oh, he did it!
09:46Oh, he broke his guitar, hang on, let's go for a chance shot
09:50Oh, he's seen it!
09:52He's seen it!
09:55He's seen it!
10:02There are a lot of great contractions underneath this huge main event
10:06But it was Hogan and Andre that drew that house
10:09Sooner or later, you gotta live and die and you gotta face the truth
10:13And for you, Andre the Giant, it's time to face the truth, brother
10:17Hulk Hogan has never met a man bigger than him, stronger than him
10:21And with a burning will inside more than Andre the Giant
10:25Andre, he never told Hogan whether or not he would allow Hogan to win the match
10:30And Hulk kept coming to me, just talk to Andre, just talk to Andre
10:34I said, and I did, what do you say, what do you say?
10:37I just said, it's not gonna be a problem
10:39You couldn't force him to do anything, come on, he's a giant
10:43I sat in the locker room with Andre, I said, hey boss, any idea what we're doing out there?
10:48Don't worry
10:50I got a hold of Vince, I said, what's gonna happen?
10:53What am I doing out there?
10:55Am I winning or losing?
10:57He goes, Andre will do the right thing, don't worry
11:00What does that mean?
11:03This is the main event of the evening
11:06He weighs 520 pounds
11:10Andre the Giant
11:14And now, his opponent, Hulk Hogan
11:21I walked out to the silver dome, I just couldn't believe how full it was
11:26I said, boy, this is either gonna be the easiest thing I've ever done
11:30Or this is gonna be a total disaster, there's no in-between
11:33This is the biggest match in the history of professional wrestling
11:37The irresistible force meeting the immovable object
11:40Look at the size of the giant
11:43Yeah, that's a giant
11:45And you get this individual with so much charisma, who is almost a superhero
11:50And the two of them colliding, it was awesome
11:54During the match, it was the first time I realized how bad his back really was
11:59And I told him during the loss, stay close to the ropes
12:02Because I knew he couldn't get back up on his own
12:05But we got through the match, and out of nowhere, he goes, slam!
12:10What? And when I said what, he came at me
12:16After I slammed him, I went and dropped the leg, and I covered him
12:19And I didn't know if it was gonna be a one-two kick out
12:21And I didn't know if it was gonna be a one-two kick out
12:23I had no idea if I was gonna win or lose the match
12:26Until when?
12:28Until Andre didn't kick out
12:39That moment in time, it's just something very, very special
12:45World Wrestling Federation Heavyweight Champion, Hulk Hogan!
12:57That probably is the greatest attraction we've ever had
13:00That's something I'm very, very proud of today
13:05WrestleMania 3 is a key part of the WWE and Vince McMahon mythology and story of wrestling
13:12You know, that Andre the Giant passed the torch to Hogan
13:15The reality is, Hogan was already a bigger star than Andre before that match ever happened
13:18Hulk Hogan, electrifying his capacity ground!
13:22Andre had never lost
13:24That's the first time in 15 years Andre the Giant had ever been defeated
13:28Nah, Andre'd lost
13:30Andre is out!
13:32He's out, I can't believe it!
13:33Andre had never been slammed, he'd been slammed probably 25 times before that, maybe more
13:37Oh, look at that!
13:40They said 93,000 for so many years, they probably all believe it by this point
13:4393,000 people
13:4493,173 people
13:46We held the record for 93,000 in that building
13:50Yeah, it was actually 78,000 in the building
13:55I don't know why this is one of the greatest controversies in pro wrestling history
13:59I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle
14:02And I'm not sure that it matters at all
14:04I mean, nothing that any wrestler, that anybody involved in wrestling tells you should be regarded as fact
14:10But, regardless of the real attendance figure, WrestleMania 3 was an enormous success
14:17History is made here in the Superdome, Pontiac, Michigan
14:20And that guy, right there, has made history all over the world
14:25A victory for Hogan at that time would build him greater as an entertainer and athlete and representation of our brand
14:33But, of course, the brand comes up that way too
14:42WrestleMania 3 changed the business and it launched me into superstar status
14:52He is the most famous and successful professional wrestler the world has ever seen
14:55His name alone can generate millions of dollars of revenue
14:58And when he performs at indoor arenas, he has attracted bigger crowds than the Rolling Stones and even the Pope
15:03When Hulk Amader was run wild, he got to be the most popular person in the world
15:09You put Hogan on the card, the building sold out
15:12That was it
15:17He was a figure of national fame
15:19And you didn't even really have to be someone who regularly watched wrestling
15:24Hulk Hogan had broken through
15:28At that time, Hulk Hogan, that's all anybody ever talked about was Hulk Hogan
15:33So I do remember feeling a little bit of resentment as a kid
15:37Because my dad never got the credit that he deserved for creating all of this
15:44Every word that came out of Hogan's mouth was Vince talking
15:47You better stock them on your shelves
15:49Make sure you've got plenty of them right on your shelves
15:53Hogan and Vince were like one person
15:55Vince came up with the idea, Hogan did it
15:57Hogan did it
15:59Every single thing was Vince
16:01When he would tell me stuff, I'm like, eh, I don't know man, but I would do it anyway
16:06Because everything he did turned to gold
16:09With wrestling superstars, it's like having a real match right in your own home
16:14This huge swell of fans and whatever that we now have in middle class America
16:19It's like, okay, let's bring this together and let's sell it
16:22You can start by getting in shape with a Hulkamania workout set
16:26It's $1,945 for Hulk
16:30One of the most remarkable success stories has been written by the WWF
16:34His marketing merchandise grossed over $200 million last year alone
16:38The man behind the magic is the man behind the mic, Vince McMahon Jr.
16:43Vince never stopped
16:45He didn't complain about the hours he worked
16:47He's a workaholic
16:49As Hogan was out doing the shows and drawing the money
16:53Vince was out setting up other stuff
16:56At that time, because of the success that we had
17:00Hogan wanted to be a part of Hollywood
17:02And I'm going, oh, God, I'm going to lose Hogan to Hollywood now
17:06And I said, Terry, if you want to do a film, I'll do one with you
17:11Of course, I knew nothing about filmmaking
17:13So Terry and I decided, all right, then we'll go write a movie
17:17It was basically Vince and I spending two, two and a half days in a hotel room writing the whole script
17:24We just didn't know what the hell we were doing
17:26We were just having fun
17:37It's not the world's worst movie
17:42But it wasn't great
17:49It was pretty hokey
17:53I thought, okay, I'll do this great movie
17:55And then everyone in the world is going to want to see it
17:57Not exactly the way it worked out
18:00It didn't prevent Hogan from then going to Hollywood
18:04But it delayed it for a while
18:06When did you notice Hulkamania was starting to fade?
18:10You know, I go back and I look at WrestleMania VI
18:15The Hulkster putting his title on the line against the Ultimate Warrior
18:20At that time for Hogan, a star like me may have been fading a little bit
18:26Do you want to live forever?
18:28You can't just stay on top every day, every year
18:31It was probably time for Hogan to be on the bench for a while
18:35Hulk's getting older and you need something new
18:42And Warrior had a groundswell of popularity
18:45Listen to the ovation, Jasper, the Ultimate Warrior
18:48The Ultimate Warrior was built better than me
18:51And his colors were brighter than me
18:54The only one problem he had was he really wasn't in love with his business
18:59It was a situation beyond that shiny object, there wasn't much go
19:03But I did what Andre did for me, I passed the torch to him
19:07He's impervious to those moves
19:09Unbelievable, Hogan has never had anyone do that
19:13Look out, the big splash, one, two
19:16He got him! He got him!
19:19Warrior became the champion and he was very popular with the audience
19:24As popular as Hulk? No
19:27As time went on, Warrior wasn't all we had hoped he would be
19:32And he was not a popular person backstage
19:36So immediately you look at, well, oh my God, we need to move back to Hulk
19:41We had this storyline in which Sgt. Slaughter, who was a big, huge fan favorite
19:48Sgt. Slaughter
19:50He was a Green Corps drill sergeant and a great American
19:54So he, as a baby face, a good guy in the parlance of our business
19:59Was turning into a bad guy
20:03And like any good organization, you're always like
20:06Okay, what can I take from pop culture, what's happening out in the world
20:09You know, and how can we present it in a different fashion
20:12So there was a lot of heat, as we call it, with Iraq and USA
20:17Troops and civilians are on edge in the Middle East
20:19So, okay, good, then we can capitalize on that
20:23A ten-hut!
20:26My guest this week, ladies and gentlemen
20:28Is the former United States military man, Sgt. Slaughter
20:33Yeah, Sgt. Dede, dishonorable discharge
20:37Sgt. Slaughter then sort of was drafted into the Iraqi culture, so to speak
20:42And now he wanted to represent Iraq
20:45I will take the flag of the brave Iraqi country
20:53And raise it high in the air
20:56And so we had this big storyline going with Hogan vs. Sgt. Slaughter
21:00USA vs. Iraq
21:02And it was working, it was working really well
21:05And then all of a sudden, from a reality standpoint
21:10Da-da-da-da
21:12Iraq invades Kuwait, we have desert storm
21:16As I report to you, air attacks are underway against military targets in Iraq
21:22Having Sarge as an Iraqi sympathizer, it was way too fresh and way too new and in the now
21:29It was like, wait a minute, I've got, you know, a relative over there
21:33Or a niece or something like that that's serving our country
21:38The audience really didn't want to see it
21:41We got to the point where Sgt. Slaughter was getting death threats at home
21:45And they wanted to kill his wife and kill his kids
21:47So as far as telling a wrestling story, it worked awesome
21:50I just thought that, whew, boy, this is a risky move here
21:54Americans could die in this thing, so change it up
21:57Back off of the storyline just a little bit
22:00But, you know, still have the match
22:02Once again, the largest pay-per-view audience in the history of pay-per-view
22:07Oh, no! Give me a break here!
22:11It's not over yet!
22:14Austin Kerrigan defeats us!
22:16You're not going to do that to the United States of America!
22:19Fitzherbert!
22:22He's done it! He's done it!
22:24At the end of the day, the great American won
22:27He did it for the Harvard Fifth Generation and for the United States of America!
22:34The wrestling of the early to mid-80s, I liked it a lot
22:39I was very amused by it
22:42But it took a nastier turn somewhere down the line
22:48And at some point, it ceased to be something that I was comfortable being involved with
22:56Well, you learn from everything
22:58And since you have no control over world events
23:02You have to be very careful associating yourself with events in the real world
23:06Anything can happen, so don't go there
23:11So we moved back to Hulk
23:13And there wasn't, oh thank God, Hulk's back
23:16The audience was tired of Hulk
23:20At least Hulk in that role of being the All-American and being the hero
23:25They were sick of him
23:28And on top of that, there started being the whispers of the Dr. Zahorian trial
23:36And the whispers of all this other stuff
23:38In Harrisburg, Pennsylvania next Monday, a doctor will go on trial
23:42Charged with prescribing anabolic steroids to several professional wrestlers
23:47Dr. George Zahorian has been indicted by a federal grand jury
23:50On 15 counts of distributing muscle-building steroids
23:54To my right, Dr. George Zahorian, thank you very much for joining us here this week
23:57Dr. George Zahorian was appointed by the Pennsylvania State Athletic Commission
24:01As the doctor of note for WWE
24:04We had nothing to do with who was appointed
24:07His role was to make sure that all the laws of the State Athletic Commission were followed
24:12It would be in our locker rooms and things of that nature
24:15And he began to sell steroids to our talent
24:20At that time, steroids were part of the culture
24:24Because all the stars during that time period had the perfect bodies
24:29And so it was the norm
24:31You know, like people go to Starbucks in the morning before they go to work
24:34People would take steroids because they were wrestlers or actors
24:37Or baseball players or hockey players or football players
24:40It was an era where steroid use in sports ran amok
24:46If you just looked at the wrestlers themselves
24:49They went from, you know, a burly guy who could plausibly be introduced
24:54As having come off his grandpa's farm in Iowa
24:58Built his muscles from hoisting bales of hay
25:01To these guys who were like cyborgs
25:04The WWE reeked of steroids
25:08It's obvious
25:09Now you tell me he ain't ripped
25:12Dr. George Sahourian would come and he would have steroids
25:17And painkillers and sleeping pills and different things
25:20That he would then prescribe and sell to the talent
25:25He would check you for your match, blood pressure, your pulse rate and all that
25:29And it's like, I need a few other things
25:31And then you'd negotiate for your steroids and your pills
25:35It wasn't illegal to buy steroids from a physician
25:39I bought some from him
25:41But it was illegal to prescribe them just to sell them
25:46Steroids, early on, they were legal
25:49However, when they became illegal, that's when it became an issue
25:53Following Reagan's era of war on drugs
25:56Just say no
25:58The laws started changing
26:00And at some point, steroids were categorized as, I believe, a class 3 substance
26:06The feeling was that doctors were prescribing them
26:09Not for the purpose that they were intended for
26:12So George Sahourian was arrested by the federal government
26:16The government came down hard on him and sent him to jail
26:19It's hard to believe what's occurred today
26:22All of the media hoopla behind the steroid trial
26:26Definitely came at a really bad time for Vince
26:30And we had just started the WBF, the World Bodybuilding Federation
26:35Here comes the World Bodybuilding Federation
26:38I've always enjoyed bodybuilding and physiques
26:42So I thought maybe, okay, I could get these bodybuilders to perform various routines
26:47And add a lot of entertainment value to it
26:50Turned out, not a good time to do that
26:53Because bodybuilders, all they do is take steroids
26:57So the writing's on the wall
27:00This is not going to work
27:02So I decided, well, let's fold this
27:05At that time, there was a lot of heat
27:08And I felt like, boy, I'm getting hit from all sides
27:11Most of us think of professional wrestling as harmless entertainment
27:15And Hulk Hogan as the king of the ring
27:17But was there a sinister side to his success?
27:20Dr. Sahourian testified he had treated Hulk Hogan for a serious steroid abuse problem
27:26After the Sahourian trial, Vince ended up being pressured by the media to start steroid testing
27:33When you see this symbol
27:35You can be assured of drug-free sports entertainment
27:39That you and your entire family can be proud of
27:45I held a press conference and said, hey, look
27:47I took steroids, I'm not anymore
27:50And we're going to establish protocols and procedures
27:53To make certain that none of our performers do either
27:56The World Wrestling Federation will be the standard bearer
27:59For drug-free sports and entertainment
28:04The same day, Hulk Hogan went on the Arsenio Hall show
28:09Your name came up recently when a doctor got himself into trouble
28:14Have you heard about this?
28:15Oh yeah, I've heard about it
28:17I remember talking with Vince about going on Arsenio Hall
28:20And he thought it was a really bad idea
28:22My suggestion to him is to come clean
28:25That's not what happened
28:27I'm not a steroid abuser
28:29And I do not use steroids
28:31I said, oh God, please
28:33Just tell the truth, it's so much easier
28:36Hulk Hogan went on the Arsenio Hall show
28:39And he told everybody that he only took steroids three times
28:42He lied like a dog
28:44I myself injected him personally
28:47I injected Hogan with steroids many times
28:49I self-destructed my own self
28:52That was one of the worst decisions I ever made
28:55Was not listening to Vince
28:57When you do stuff like that and don't tell the truth
29:00Then it's an open door for people to come get you
29:04And unfortunately we were caught in a crosshairs of that as well
29:12I was never assigned to cover wrestling
29:15But pro wrestling was so highly rated on TV
29:18It was hard to ignore
29:20And I slowly began to feed it into my column
29:24There's a newspaper columnist, Phil Mushnick with the New York Post
29:28I try to be nice here, but there's nothing nice to say about him
29:31He seemed to be on a vendetta against the company
29:35And Vince in particular
29:37Phil Mushnick was digging for anything he could possibly dig for
29:40I don't know why his vendetta still does against our company
29:44Against our form of entertainment
29:46Against me, I don't know why
29:48Because he's a dirtbag
29:51What Vince had by running wrestling
29:54Is that it's wrestling
29:56So the real reporters for the most part
29:58It's wrestling, we don't want to waste our time covering it
30:01And Phil Mushnick was the one guy to cover it
30:05And he wrote very, very strongly against Vince
30:08Stronger than I would write
30:12Back then no one had seen anything written critical
30:16Of pro wrestling in mainstream media
30:18And when I first wrote this stuff
30:21My mailbox was stuffed with messages
30:24And they essentially all read the same
30:27You don't know the half of it
30:30You don't know how truly bad it is
30:32Within the ring and within the locker rooms
30:35And I returned some calls
30:37And it was mind-blowing
30:40You know, as wrestling becomes more popular
30:43Naturally people are interested in
30:46The stories of what's going on behind the scenes
30:49And pulling back the curtain in the pro wrestling world
30:52Can be pretty shocking
30:54You know, the stories of depravity
30:56Of sex, of violence, of drug use
30:58We would have been looked upon in today's society
31:01As some of the worst human beings walking the face of the earth
31:04I mean, we abused a hell of a lot of women
31:07All of us did
31:09You know, they were like a tool for us
31:11You don't have to do a lot of research
31:14To understand that being a woman
31:17In or around the pro wrestling world
31:19At this point in history
31:21Was not necessarily a safe place to be
31:24I hear some horrible stuff about women's wrestling
31:27Horrible
31:29With us now, ladies and gentlemen
31:31Superfly, Jimmy Snuka
31:33For example, the Jimmy Snuka thing
31:35Where that girl got killed
31:38In 1983, Jimmy Snuka
31:41He was the most popular wrestler in the company at the time
31:44Something happened in a hotel room in Allentown, Pennsylvania
31:49His girlfriend hit her head and died
31:52The forensic pathologist who investigated
31:55Thought it was a homicide
31:57But at the time, no charges were ever filed
32:00Superfly, Jimmy Snuka
32:02And was the power of Vince involved in that?
32:05I think that Vince had a hand in making it go away
32:08I mean, exactly what? I don't know
32:10In hell, brother
32:11It's gonna be hot
32:13Hot, brother
32:16No doubt
32:18At this point, most fans didn't know about
32:21These sort of darker stories about pro wrestling
32:24And Phil Mushnick was one of the first people
32:26To really bring this out into the public space
32:31Phil Mushnick was vigilant against Vince
32:34He had told me once, and he said like
32:37I've got a story, and the day I write it
32:39They may have to close the doors the next day
32:41A battle royale and professional wrestling
32:43Over new allegations of sexual harassment
32:45By top officials in the sport
32:47This growing scandal could put wrestling down for the count
32:51There was so much going on at the time
32:53And one accusation is that someone from our organization
32:57Was coming on to someone on the ring crew
33:00The Ring Boy scandal began with a fellow named Mel Phillips
33:05Who was what they called a ring boss
33:08And he would bring with him ring boys
33:12In too many cases, these ring boys were underage
33:19And they were being sexually abused
33:22Former ring boy Tom Cole says the top WWF executives
33:26Sexually harassed and abused ring boys
33:29The teenagers hired to put up and take down rings at matches
33:33Mel Phillips was a total pedophile
33:36That preyed on young boys
33:38And if these young boys weren't complying
33:41With their requests for sexual favors
33:44They weren't hired
33:46And then I learned there were others involved
33:51Terry Garvin, an executive in Connecticut
33:54And Pat Patterson, one of McMahon's top executives
33:58Here at ringside, Vince McMahon along with wrestling great Pat Patterson
34:02In a business that was very homophobic
34:06Pat was gay and openly gay
34:10But Pat prospered and became a top guy everywhere he went
34:16I was grabbed on numerous occasions on my testicles and my buttocks
34:19By Pat Patterson of the World Wrestling Federation
34:22And Terry Garvin propositioned me when I was 16
34:25Offered me cocaine and all kinds of drugs to have sex with him
34:29I refused, I was let go from the company when I was 16
34:32I think Vince is guilty of aiding and abetting the ring boy scandal
34:38At best, he's guilty of rank neglect
34:43Phil Mushnick was trying to build this whole case of
34:47You know, how rotten the company was
34:49He didn't care how he did it
34:50He didn't care about whether or not he hurt the people that were involved
34:53You know, on one side or the other
34:55He just wanted to write this salacious piece about WWE
34:59It was a pedophile ring
35:01Three of these guys were all in on it
35:04These were real kids being sexually abused on McMahon's watch
35:09I do think there was a lot of turning a blind eye to some of the things that were going on
35:14But I don't think anybody could ever prove anything
35:18It was kind of like, how do you prove it?
35:21Eventually, Vince settled with Tom Cole
35:25Mel Phillips and Terry Garvin
35:27They were let go and never worked there again
35:31Pat Patterson resigned
35:33But during that period, Vince and I talked
35:36He goes, one of the three was innocent
35:38And I go, well, who?
35:39And he goes, Pat Patterson
35:40And I go, so why is he gone if he's innocent?
35:43He goes, you don't understand running this business
35:45It's a gay witch hunt
35:47And he had to go
35:50Most people in wrestling that were around
35:53Believed that Patterson never acted unprofessionally
35:56And months later, Patterson was back
36:00In regards to the allegations made against Pat
36:04Nothing has ever been substantiated
36:07And I just don't believe him
36:09Oh, please, not me
36:11He's doing home movies, Patrick
36:12None of it rings true
36:14The others, no comment
36:19We all knew Pat was doing this stuff
36:22I didn't like Pat because he kept grabbing my pecker
36:24In the locker room
36:25He what?
36:26He was grabbing my pecker
36:28Yeah
36:30Did you guys complain?
36:32To who?
36:33He's a booker
36:34He's the number two guy in the office
36:36To who?
36:37Vince
36:41You know nothing about the wrestling business, don't you?
36:44He's nobody to go to, son
36:47You either take it or you go home
36:50Who you gonna complain to?
36:53Vince
36:54For what?
36:55To get fired?
36:57He needed Pat more than he needed me
37:00Pat was like the savant of professional wrestling
37:04And he was Vince's right-hand man when it came to booking
37:07And, you know, was very, very valuable in the company
37:11Did Vince protect Pat?
37:15I wouldn't say he protected him
37:17I would say he protected business
37:22His allegations are absolutely absurd that have been raised
37:25McMahon insists it's all just a conspiracy to wreck his business
37:30And it just seems as though they're all ganging up on us all at one time
37:34There's no sign the charges have done any harm
37:37No wrestling or whatever this is has survived scandals before
37:41There's no reason to believe this one, too, won't be drowned out
37:44By all those fans who couldn't care less
37:47What reaction there was was meager from legitimate media
37:52Those who seemed to eat it up were the scandal shows
37:55Like the Phil Donahue kindness show
37:59Here you are being accused, Mr. McMahon
38:02Of presiding over an organization that looked the other way
38:05While these such harassed activity was taking place
38:08I'm one of the few people in the world who enjoys confrontation
38:11If there's a situation like Donahue, you know, I have no problem at all
38:15Confronting someone, especially when they're lying
38:17You did a horrible job, that's the only reason why you were fired
38:21Donahue was an opportunity to stand up for himself
38:25I don't think it went the way he wanted it to
38:27Sexual harassment is running rampant in the World Wrestling Federation
38:30Where were you all these years?
38:31His father blackballed me all over the country
38:33I didn't sleep with your vice president, two weeks later I'm fired
38:36I don't know that that happened
38:37And whether it was a good decision or a bad decision
38:40At that time, at this time, I did it
38:44I was sitting right next to Vince
38:46He was not comfortable
38:48At one point he whispers to me, like, this is the longest hour of my life
38:51It's not the truth
38:52Okay
38:53You lie about this to children
38:54You're finished, kaput
38:55I don't buy it
39:02I think that this was one point in his life
39:04That everything was kind of coming down at once
39:07There was a bit of frustration in what he couldn't control
39:10Oh my gosh, there were so many scandals going on
39:13With who was dating who, who was sleeping with who
39:16Do you remember any of those?
39:18Well, you know, you know what, let me try to do
39:22I'm trying to be, I'm trying to be really cautious on doing this
39:25I don't know what they want out in the open or not
39:28I know there was some girl that I think was a referee
39:31A girl referee that had claimed that Vince had sexually assaulted her
39:36For the first time ever, a lady referee
39:41And I remember Rita Marie, the referee
39:43Because there was only one female referee in wrestling at that point in time
39:48And it was her
39:49Vince was definitely trying to push her as, you know, the hot blonde woman ref
39:53As a character in his soap opera
39:55Rita Marie, ladies and gentlemen
39:57The very first ever lady referee in the World Wrestling Federation
40:01Hopefully we'll be seeing more of her in time to come
40:04When you're accused of this and accused of that
40:06And it's like there's this deluge of things
40:08You're this, you're that
40:09One of the things was an alleged rape that never happened
40:17I was forced into oral sex with Vince McMahon
40:22When I couldn't complete his desires
40:27He got really angry
40:29Started ripping off my jeans
40:34Pulled me on top of him and told me again
40:38If I wanted a half a million dollar a year contract I had to satisfy him
40:42And if I didn't satisfy him I was blackballed
40:45I was scared
40:47My wrist was all black and blue
40:49He just didn't stop
40:52When you're accused of rape
40:54You're a rapist
40:55But it was consensual
40:57And actually had it been a rape
41:02The statute of limitations had run out
41:04So I mean it's all kind of crap like that
41:07That people are digging up and trying to find something on you
41:11Vince did sue her over it
41:13And he sued Geraldo Rivera
41:16But the general public
41:18I think they just thought that it was all sleazy
41:20People looked the other way
41:23God I just hope somebody listens
41:25They just thought it was like a woman making up a story on a rich guy
41:28Rita what do you expect to get now?
41:30I mean what do you want?
41:31Did you just want to come on Geraldo?
41:33They were very very negative on her
41:36It just didn't resonate with a public
41:40That it should have resonated with
41:43He was the biggest guy in cable TV
41:46Nobody wanted to look a little deeper
41:49They really didn't want to look
41:50They didn't want to know
41:53Most newspapers ran away from it
41:55Or wouldn't touch it because it's wrestling
41:57It's beneath us
41:58But Phil was not dissuaded by Vince at all
42:02He kept going and going
42:04And I do think that
42:07The negative headlines and attention
42:09That did lead to the indictment
42:11It did lead to the trial
42:13The Justice Department has indicted
42:15The most powerful man in professional wrestling in this country
42:18Not a wrestler
42:19But the man who runs the World Wrestling Federation
42:21The charge
42:23Illegal distribution of steroids
42:25Do you know what triggered the federal government
42:27To start looking into you?
42:29Well I think Phil Mustick
42:31Triggered all of this
42:32And whether or not he had any connections
42:35To the federal government
42:36I don't know
42:37But again
42:38That's where it seemed to begin
42:40I was an FBI informant
42:42I admit to that
42:43You know why?
42:44The FBI would read what I wrote
42:46And then act on it
42:48When the indictments came
42:50There were no indictments or anything
42:51On the Ringboy story
42:53Or Ria Chatterjee
42:55There were steroid indictments
42:56The three count indictment charges that
42:58He conspired to defraud the government
43:00By possessing and distributing steroids
43:02Through Dr. George Zaharian
43:04Good morning guys
43:05It was not a good morning
43:07For World Wrestling Federation owner Vincent McMahon
43:10On this day he was in federal court
43:12Entering a plea of not guilty
43:14The charges that he bulked up
43:15His wrestlers with steroids
43:17Prosecutors say McMahon
43:18Who admits being a former steroids user himself
43:21Is a corporate drug pusher
43:23McMahon lawyers on the other hand
43:25Say the wrestling mogul
43:26Is the victim of a government witch hunt
43:28Sometimes life isn't fair
43:30And unfortunately for me
43:32I believe this is one of those instances
43:35The federal government
43:36The Justice Department
43:38Can be the biggest bullies
43:40They have unlimited resources
43:43The average person can't afford
43:45To buck the government
43:46They just can't
43:47So that's why so many people
43:49Cop a plea
43:50They wanted me
43:51To cop the plea
43:53He would have to plead guilty
43:55To some charge
43:56But he would pay a fine
43:58And everything goes away
44:00I wouldn't do it
44:01I wasn't guilty of anything
44:02I said
44:04Fuck yourself
44:06If convicted McMahon could face
44:08Up to 11 years in jail
44:09And $500,000 in fines on each count
44:12So right before the trial
44:13Vince had neck surgery
44:15And so he goes into the trial
44:16And he's wearing a neck brace
44:19My impression was
44:20That it was not an operation
44:21That he needed to do
44:22At that moment
44:24A lot of people thought
44:26He's wearing that thing
44:27Because he's trying to
44:28Evoke some sort of sympathy
44:30You know, from the jury
44:32That was not the case
44:34It's impossible to not think
44:36There was some sort of
44:37Storytelling contrivance behind it
44:40I mean in pro wrestling
44:41Bad guys would wear those neck braces
44:44Because they knew the crowd
44:45Would boo them
44:46For like being overly dramatic
44:48It's not a facade
44:50I'm not well
44:52With Vince, everything is a show
44:54Even in the midst of this
44:56Very serious trial
44:58I mean, there's a lot at stake here
45:01It was a tense time
45:04If he was proven guilty
45:06That would have been a problem for us
45:08And they would be off the air
45:10During that time
45:11There was a lot of turbulence
45:13And instead of people
45:15Cheering me on stop
45:16I'd hear a couple of boos here
45:18You know, instead of
45:19We love Hulk Hogan
45:20Or Hulk may live forever
45:21I'd see a sign up that said
45:22Hey, did you take your shot today?
45:26And so I didn't feel
45:28Like I was in control
45:29Of the crowds anymore
45:31And that's when I told Vince
45:32I needed to go
45:34It was not an easy conversation
45:37And whether or not
45:38This is your last match
45:39I'd like to say that on behalf of
45:41All of us, your Hulkamaniacs
45:44Thank you for the memories
45:47And thank you for Hulkamania
45:50Thank you
45:53I don't think people fully
45:55Appreciate how dire things were looking
46:00All the scandals
46:01Were all piled off at the same time
46:04And it was a great opportunity
46:05For our competition
46:06To make a move
46:10At that time, Ted Turner
46:12Who owned a WCW
46:14He was my biggest competitor
46:16I've been involved with
46:17The wrestling business
46:18Since we started televising it
46:19Back in, I think, 73
46:23Ted Turner is one of the pioneers
46:25Of cable television
46:27Obviously founded TV networks
46:29Like CNN, TBS, TNT
46:31And he was one of the first people
46:33To broadcast professional
46:34Wrestling nationwide
46:37We were the number two
46:38Wrestling promotion in the world
46:40Good morning America
46:41And welcome to WCW
46:43We might as well have been
46:44Number 202
46:46That's the distance
46:47Between WWE and WCW
46:51The type of program
46:52And the content that WCW
46:53Was producing prior to me
46:55Being hired as executive producer
46:57Was just a really bad
47:00Imitation of what WWE
47:03Was successful at
47:04There was no vision
47:06There was no strategy
47:07There was just
47:09Throwing things up against the wall
47:10And hoping something would work
47:12As long as it looked
47:13Something like
47:15What WWE was doing
47:18I had been following
47:19The steroid trials
47:20And all of the controversy
47:21And everything that went on
47:22As a result of that
47:24I was very well aware
47:25That Hulk had left WWE
47:27And was going to pursue
47:29Television and movies
47:31And coincidentally
47:33I was down at Disney MGM Studios
47:35Shooting my show for WCW
47:38While Hulk Hogan
47:40Was at Disney MGM Studios
47:42Shooting a show called
47:43Thunder in Paradise
47:46Here comes Eric Bischoff
47:47Wandering over to the set
47:49And he said
47:50We really would love to have you
47:52Consider coming back to wrestling
47:54We know you're filming
47:55The TV series
47:56Even if part time
47:57I said let's talk
48:00I was not happy with the acting
48:02And being locked up
48:03In a trailer most of the day
48:05Just wasn't me
48:08Hulk was torn
48:09Because he loved wrestling
48:11He missed it
48:12But he also had two
48:13Very very young kids at home
48:15And it was really important to him
48:17To not be on the road
48:19300 days a year
48:21And WCW provided Hulk
48:23An opportunity to do both
48:25The nature of our contract
48:27The nature of our contract
48:28Was you may have
48:30A total of 30 appearances a year
48:32As opposed to 300
48:34Ted Turner was given
48:35These guarantees
48:37We're going to give you
48:38A million dollars a year
48:39How many days do you work?
48:40Well how many days
48:41Do you want to work?
48:42Ah I want to work
48:43100 days
48:44Okay you got it
48:45Where WWE
48:46I know when we were there
48:47It was 7 days a week
48:4852 weeks a year
48:50I just looked at it as
48:51Wow I have this amazing opportunity
48:53I'm going to put my
48:54Salesman hat on
48:55I'm going to get this guy
48:56To join WCW
48:58When I left
48:59I had the meeting with Vince
49:00And it was a real emotional meeting
49:01I actually told Vince
49:02I will never run against you
49:04Because that was a concern
49:06He said
49:07I'm going to go off and do movies
49:08And do things like that
49:09But I do want my release
49:11But you're not going to compete
49:12You know
49:13I said no
49:14Absolutely not
49:15So um
49:16It was one of those things
49:17Where I gave him his release
49:18And next thing you know
49:19He's with the other guys
49:21WCW is about to dominate
49:23The globe in professional wrestling
49:25That's why we're here today
49:27To sign the contact
49:28For a match between
49:29Two of wrestling's
49:30Biggest superstars
49:31Hulk Hogan
49:32And Ric Flair
49:34We had a very close
49:35Personal relationship
49:37We took him
49:38And of course
49:39Made a huge start out of him
49:41And then from there
49:42He decides
49:43He wants to flip
49:44To our competition
49:45And no longer be associated
49:46With you
49:47So sure
49:48Emotionally
49:49It hurt
49:50It broke my heart
49:51You know I mean
49:52Damn
49:55Hulk Hogan's defection
49:56To WCW
49:58Right there in the middle
49:59Of a trial
50:01That was an enormous
50:02Slap in the face
50:04Even to this day
50:06That was taboo
50:07In my book
50:09Vince viewed Hulk
50:10As a lifer
50:12But Hulk was offered
50:13A better deal
50:14With Ted Turner
50:15And offered guaranteed money
50:16With Ted Turner
50:17Money talks
50:18As expression goes
50:19I guess
50:20Hulk's looking at it
50:21Also like
50:22Man I don't know
50:23Vince is gonna be there
50:25After the trial
50:26I don't know
50:27If there's even gonna be
50:28A company there
50:29To work for
50:30It's another day in court
50:31For World Wrestling
50:32Federation founder
50:33Vince McMahon
50:34Vince McMahon
50:35Was charged with
50:36Conspiring to beef up
50:37His brawny wrestlers
50:38With anabolic steroids
50:40This case should go on
50:41For several days
50:43And interest is expected
50:44To peak
50:45When a pro wrestler
50:46By the name of
50:47Terry Bollea testifies
50:48Of course he goes
50:49By the name of
50:50Hulk Hogan
50:51Wrestling insiders say
50:52That Hogan will be
50:53The government's
50:54Star witness
50:55And testify against
50:56McMahon
50:57At his trial in May
50:59After I left the WWF
51:01The government
51:02Wanted me to be
51:03Their star witness
51:04I was told
51:05That if
51:06I didn't say
51:07What they wanted to hear
51:08The target of the investigation
51:09Would be directed to me
51:10And I might do
51:1117 years
51:13Hogan didn't want to
51:14Testify against Vince
51:15They forced him to
51:16They basically
51:17Had something on Hogan
51:18And they wanted Vince
51:19And so Hogan had to
51:21The conviction rate
51:22In cases like that
51:23Was very, very high
51:24So at that point
51:25It was like
51:26God, the odds are
51:27I'll look against Vince
51:28I think a lot of the stuff
51:29In there is evidence
51:30Of what I believed
51:31All along
51:32Is kind of proven to be true
51:33I was there for two weeks
51:34And I could tell
51:35That Vince was just
51:36Scared to death
51:38Vince was in
51:39Serious, serious
51:40Problems at that point
51:42I truly believe
51:43In the law of the jungle
51:44If something's weakened
51:46You know, then
51:47You want to pile on it
51:48You want to kill it
51:49So at that time
51:50It was coming from
51:51Everywhere
51:52How could they possibly
51:53Stand up to that
51:54And hold up
51:55You know
51:56Law of the jungle
51:57I get it
52:00I was granted immunity
52:02And I said, well
52:04Cool, I got it
52:05I know what I want to say
52:20I got it
52:21I got it
52:22I got it
52:23I got it
52:24I got it
52:25I got it
52:26I got it
52:27I got it
52:28I got it
52:29I got it
52:30I got it
52:31I got it
52:32I got it
52:33I got it
52:34I got it
52:35I got it
52:36I got it
52:37I got it
52:38I got it
52:39I got it
52:40I got it
52:41I got it
52:42I got it
52:43I got it
52:44I got it
52:45I got it
52:46I got it
52:47I got it
52:48I got it