Kathi Vidal, Under Secretary of Commerce for Intellectual Property; Director, U.S. Patent and Trademark Office
Interviewer: Allie Garfinkle, Fortune
Interviewer: Allie Garfinkle, Fortune
Category
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TechTranscript
00:00Hi, Cathy.
00:01Hello.
00:02Hello, amazing women.
00:03You can say hello.
00:04Hello.
00:05So we're going to come to you all for questions, but Cathy, I'm really excited to be here with
00:10you because you are uniquely equipped to talk about this long arc of AI.
00:15You started working in AI in the early 90s.
00:17Take us back in time a little bit.
00:18I think a few things have maybe changed.
00:20A few things have changed.
00:22So I started working on AI when I couldn't ship my files via email.
00:26I had to use FTP, if you remember that.
00:30This is way back in the day.
00:31There was really no internet that we all had access to.
00:35Files had not been digitized.
00:37So when we were working on AI back then, and I worked on it in the aerospace industry trying
00:41to detect faults on aircraft, we were really looking at using our own data.
00:46We weren't looking at these massive data sets.
00:49We had no concerns about what we were training on or bias.
00:52We were just trying to come up with a system that was a little bit more insular.
00:55Well, and it's the sort of thing we were talking about earlier where you said, well, data,
01:00we weren't thinking about how big a role data would even play.
01:03Exactly.
01:04There was no big data then.
01:06Now how do you think about AI policy in broad strokes?
01:09It's something I know a lot of folks here have questions about.
01:12Lay it out for us.
01:13So in my role, I think about four things.
01:16I think about jobs.
01:17I think about innovation to solve community and world problems.
01:21I think about US competitiveness globally.
01:25And I think about national security.
01:27So whether I think about intellectual property or AI or anything else, I'm looking at it
01:31through that lens.
01:33And so one of the ways I like to explain it is NIST is really there on safety and security
01:38related to AI.
01:40I'm really there when it comes to opportunity.
01:42Now how do you think about the election?
01:45That's coming up.
01:46Is there an election?
01:47There is.
01:48I don't know if you've heard.
01:50How do you think about it though in the context of what you do?
01:53So this is what I'll say.
01:55Over the last four years, the Biden-Harris administration has really leaned in when it
02:01comes to supporting communities and creating jobs.
02:04We are creating Silicon Valleys everywhere.
02:08We are creating tech hubs everywhere.
02:10Quantum, for example, in Colorado and in Chicago.
02:13And so what really needs to happen, no matter what administration is in, is that continued
02:18commitment to US communities and US innovation.
02:23This election does have a couple of very key tech figures who have been very vocal.
02:28One of them is Elon Musk.
02:29Any opinions about Elon?
02:33I would say my relationship with Elon is more of a personal nature.
02:39So I drive the Tesla.
02:42I have the Tesla plaid because I wanted to get an electric car.
02:46And when I drive and I see a voluptuous woman walk across the street, Elon depicts her as
02:53a tall white man.
02:55Really?
02:56That's the AI recognizes everybody as tall white men.
02:59So I have the Roadster on order and I'm, Elon, if you're listening, I'm going to withdraw
03:04my money if you don't change that.
03:07Kathy has some questions for you, Elon.
03:10Now I want to talk about the role of women in AI.
03:14What role do women have to play in this space that is evolving so quickly and is so important?
03:21So one thing that I love, which I never take for granted, is when I sit around a table
03:26in government and I talk about AI, at most there's one man in the room.
03:32So it's incredible, Elizabeth Kelly, Elham, Secretary of Commerce, all of us across government,
03:39most of us are women who are dealing with this at the highest levels.
03:42So I find that very interesting.
03:45I will say in terms of the role that women have to play, actually, let me ask a question
03:51on this.
03:52How many in the audience have lobbying organizations?
03:55Okay.
03:56Now, if you can put your hands down, of all those who don't have lobbying organization,
04:02who has reached out to government to express your thoughts on policy?
04:07Okay.
04:09That's great.
04:10I'd like to see that number be much, much higher because we are listening to everyone
04:14and I think there's a general misconception that you have to be a very large company who
04:20funds a lobbying organization to be heard.
04:23And if we look at policy through that lens, we're going to be shaping policy for the large
04:28organizations.
04:29So we really need everyone here.
04:31All of you have a stake in the future of AI.
04:34All of you have a stake on how we shape policy.
04:37And we need you to reach out.
04:38You can write personal letters.
04:40We'll take meetings.
04:41Elizabeth Kelly and I just last week had a meeting from a very small company.
04:45So when I think about women's participation, I think not only about the fact that we all
04:50need to educate ourselves, we need to use AI, we need to think about how AI applies
04:55on our organizations or we'll be left behind and the stats of women-owned businesses outperforming
05:01men will change if we don't do that.
05:03But in addition to that, you need to weigh in on U.S. policy because we're trying to
05:08create policy right now that helps everyone.
05:11And if we don't hear all voices, we're not going to be able to do that.
05:15Who here, after listening to Kathy speak, is going to write a letter?
05:18Woo!
05:19We want to see more hands than that.
05:22Come on.
05:23There you go.
05:24Now, in terms of what is it going to take to get more women in the mix?
05:27Because I found a UNESCO study I was telling you about earlier.
05:29The numbers don't look great.
05:31About 80% of AI professors are men.
05:33At a lot of AI conferences, 18% of presenters are women.
05:37What is it going to take for more women to get involved sort of at the research level
05:41and beyond?
05:42So I'm going to talk fast here because we're doing so much on this.
05:45So I will say we released recently the first ever national entrepreneurship strategy.
05:51We also released the first ever national inclusive innovation strategy.
05:57We got to start from the beginning.
05:58We got to get girls in the mix.
06:01And so we're doing programming now across the country, 373,000 children participated
06:06last year alone, where we're introducing children, 6, 7, 8, 9-year-olds to innovation, entrepreneurship,
06:13intellectual property, and I want to put AI in there as well.
06:16And we're working with NSF on that.
06:18To everywhere we connect with people, we want AI to be part of the mix with innovation.
06:23But it starts there and it continues on.
06:25We teach teachers across the entire country how to teach innovation, entrepreneurship.
06:30We invited NSF in to come talk about AI, to make sure we're teaching AI.
06:34So it's all along this process.
06:37It's everything that we should be doing on STEM.
06:39We need to be doing when it comes to AI, and we need to bake AI into all of our teachings
06:44and all of our outreach.
06:45Well, and you said something really interesting earlier about the letters that people get
06:49when they receive patents.
06:50Can you tell us about that?
06:51So it's interesting.
06:52So when I came into office, which was two years and seven months ago, the first thing
06:56I did is say, we're going to rethink everything.
07:00Why did you decide to rethink everything?
07:02Because you always hear, it's always been done that way.
07:04And I thought, one benefit of having a political come in is that I don't know how it's always
07:08been done.
07:09And it gives me a chance to say, are things working?
07:11Are they not?
07:12Double down on things that are working, but fix things that are not working.
07:16So instead of waiting, I was told, stakeholders will start to reach out.
07:19I'm like, no, I'm going to reach out to all of them immediately and reach out within the
07:23organization.
07:24So I heard from 2,000 of our 14,000 employees on what's working, what's not working.
07:30And one of the things we've been trying to do is expand innovation so that more people
07:34who don't participate, statistically women, but also people from different racial groups,
07:39people from rural areas, we want to bring more of them into the ecosystem and empower
07:44them.
07:45So once we get them in the system, we want them to stick.
07:49So we've done a lot of things to bring them in the system.
07:52But what I recognize is that women who come into the system and file for a patent, I surmise
07:58that they did not persist at the same rate as men.
08:01And the reason I thought that was because the first substantive communication you used
08:06to receive from the office was a rejection.
08:10And given my huge brain, I realized that was not welcoming.
08:13I agree.
08:16If I received a rejection from the patent office, I'd probably take that pretty hard.
08:18So I thought, that does not seem like we're here to support you.
08:23And so I asked our chief economist, just do back of the math analysis, do women opt out
08:28at a higher rate than men?
08:30The answer was considerably yes.
08:33And then we're solving for women, we're solving for other demographics as well.
08:36So what I did was we now send a letter, actually when you file before you get your substantive
08:42communication, we welcome you to the innovation ecosystem.
08:45We tell you about our women's entrepreneurship efforts that we've been doing.
08:49We invite you to free programming.
08:51We teach you how to learn what the steps are, how to track your application, what to do
08:56next.
08:57And we teach you that we're here to help you get a patent.
08:59And that when you receive a communication that's fashioned as a, it looks like a rejection,
09:05it's really about saying, you're not quite there yet, and we're here to help you get
09:08there.
09:09And so we're measuring data, we don't have the data yet, but we anticipate that's going
09:13to dramatically move the needle on everybody staying in the system, but we'll certainly
09:17hopefully level out when it comes to women.
09:19This is one of those things I'm fascinated by because it seems like something where people
09:23would say, oh, that would never make a difference, but it sounds like you're fully anticipating
09:26that it will.
09:27It will make a huge difference.
09:28And I will say a lot of what we do is we get out in communities and listen to women entrepreneurs
09:32on where were the stumbling blocks?
09:35And so many of them say, I was so lucky that I had a lawyer who helped me realize that
09:40when I got that rejection, I could move on and move forward.
09:44And these are the first black inventor this century, woman, black inventor in Colorado
09:48told me that.
09:49So women are telling me this, and as I said, if we sell for women, we sell it for other
09:53demographics as well, but we know that this is going to make a difference.
09:56So when women are receiving that rejection, they're taking it as a permanent rejection.
10:00They're taking it, who wouldn't, right?
10:01You don't know the system.
10:02It seems pretty opaque to most people.
10:05Now are there any questions for Kathy?
10:07If we could raise the lights.
10:09Yes, over here.
10:12Hi, I'm Jana Geraldin with Miller Knoll.
10:15Going back to your comments around creating more education and getting educators to adopt
10:22AI, I think about my 17-year-old daughter in her AP language class who's the first thing
10:28that her teacher said in the syllabus is don't use chat, GBT.
10:31However, there's such an opportunity to have these educators better understand how can
10:36they use those tools to advance learning?
10:39And yesterday in one of our breakout sessions, a statement was made that AI isn't going to
10:43replace humans, but humans who use AI will replace humans who don't.
10:48How do we get educators on board in understanding the importance of adopting these tools?
10:54Really great question, and I love that phrase that humans who use AI will replace humans
10:58who don't.
10:59I truly believe that, which is why I would encourage everybody to adopt it.
11:03First of all, we need to make sure that people understand that adopting AI is safe and teach
11:07them safe ways to adopt it.
11:10That is something that I'm working on.
11:11I know Secretary of Commerce Gina Raimondo is working on.
11:14I will say just on that topic, we are running a contest right now where we're asking developers
11:20to basically run AI and then create a Boolean output to show that AI was basically doing
11:25what you would think of putting into a system anyway, to give people more trust in the system.
11:31In terms of the educators, we have programs at Department of Commerce through my organization
11:37where we are reaching out to teachers.
11:39We run a National Summer Teacher Institute.
11:41I institute a graduate program when it comes to teaching.
11:45On all of this, you can email me directly and get your school involved in this.
11:50If you want your teachers involved, if you want to connect them in, we do free programming
11:54once a month to teachers, and we're incorporating AI as part of that.
11:59But it's not just AI.
12:00It's the rest of the ecosystem as well, because AI is great, but there's also young girls
12:05who tinker and innovate, and we teach it out of them through the educational process.
12:10We want them to be interested and understand not just AI, but STEM generally, and then
12:15the whole innovative and entrepreneurship process so that we can really empower them.
12:19My email is director at USPTO.gov, and that goes directly into my inbox, so I will connect
12:27you up with the right people.
12:28We can get the camps into your schools.
12:30We can get your teachers involved, and that's really what we want people to do is to reach
12:34out and scale the work that we're doing so that more schools, more communities across
12:39the country will benefit.
12:40I don't know if I've ever had anyone give out their email on stage.
12:44You weren't kidding.
12:45You weren't kidding.
12:46Yeah.
12:47No, clap.
12:48Yeah, no.
12:49When we were talking outside, you said, I want people to email me.
12:52You're really serious about it.
12:53Yes, yes.
12:54It's the only way.
12:55We've got to do it together.
12:56I can only do so much by myself.
12:57I understand we have some questions over here.
12:59Hi.
13:00I'm an FOK, a friend of Kathy, and I highly recommend it.
13:06She is amazing.
13:07She's not just breaking and shattering the glass ceiling.
13:13She is drop-kicking it.
13:15Thank you, Robin.
13:17Yes, I'm also a fan of Kathy's.
13:22So I'm CEO of the Creative Coalition, which is the nonprofit arm of the entertainment
13:27industry.
13:28Our members are actors, writers, producers, directors, executives that use the power of
13:33entertainment to impact social welfare issues, and we partner with companies like yours.
13:38So Kathy, your moment.
13:40What can you say to my constituency where AI became two dirty letters?
13:48So there's a reason for that, right?
13:51There's real concern when it comes to your industry, and that's something that we're
13:55tackling right now.
13:57We actually worked it into an executive order where we need to issue guidance to the Biden
14:01administration on how to deal with the intersection of AI and copyright.
14:05So one thing that I would say is have their voices be heard, and don't just work through
14:11lobbying groups.
14:12I'm not saying any ... Lobbying groups are great, but I will tell you that CEOs of companies
14:18call me directly.
14:19They call senators directly, right?
14:21They send letters directly, and that's much more impactful in some ways.
14:26So to the extent that you have well-known actors, have them reach out directly and have
14:32their voices heard so that the people who are making the decisions really hear from
14:36the end consumer.
14:38That's terribly important.
14:39And then I would say keep your finger on the pulse of what is happening internationally.
14:44So one concern that your constituents have right now is that in Singapore, they're considering
14:50allowing AI to train behind paywalls.
14:55And your industry is extremely concerned about that, as other people should be as well.
14:59So we don't just develop policy in the United States.
15:03We go out and advocate for policy that's going to be good for US businesses across the globe.
15:08So they should keep an eye on that as well and make sure they're heard on those issues
15:12as well.
15:13I understand.
15:14We have one more question over here.
15:15Hi.
15:16My name is Shannon Nash.
15:17I'm also...
15:18I didn't know what FOK meant, but I am an FOK fan.
15:19I also consider...
15:20I know, right?
15:21I also consider you to be a mentor, a supporter.
15:22In fact, you brought me to the Fortune...
15:23What was it?
15:24Next Gen Conference or something, like 10 years ago.
15:25I wouldn't be here if you hadn't have brought me to that.
15:26My question is, I saw how you...
15:27I mean, this woman was killing it in corporate America, bad-ass in corporate America, and
15:28now she's here.
15:29How do you feel about that?
15:30How do you feel about that?
15:31How do you feel about that?
15:32How do you feel about that?
15:33How do you feel about that?
15:34How do you feel about that?
15:35How do you feel about that?
15:36How do you feel about that?
15:37How do you feel about that?
15:47How do you feel about that?
15:48How do you feel about that?
15:49How do you feel about that?
15:50How do you feel about that?
15:51How do you feel about that?
15:52How do you feel about that?
15:53How do you feel about that?
15:54How do you feel about that?
15:55How do you feel about that?
15:56How do you feel about that?
15:57How do you feel about that?
15:58How do you feel about that?
15:59How do you feel about that?
16:00How do you feel about that?
16:01How do you feel about that?
16:02How do you feel about that?
16:03How do you feel about that?
16:04How do you feel about that?
16:05How do you feel about that?
16:06How do you feel about that?
16:07How do you feel about that?
16:08How do you feel about that?
16:09How do you feel about that?
16:10How do you feel about that?
16:12Even if you don't become, you won't become the patent secretary, but maybe being on commissions,
16:18just what are options?
16:19So, thank you for that, Shannon.
16:20I will say, I think now more than ever, we need more women to step up into those roles.
16:26For me, I wake up every day thinking about how I can have impact.
16:30Usually, I do kind of, as I'm waking up my brain, it's by connecting women or doing things
16:34like that.
16:35But when this opportunity presented itself, because I was not lobbying for it, and I said
16:40I would not lobby for it because I wanted to be unbiased in everything that I do, I
16:44thought about how I could have broader impact for more people.
16:47And I know that everybody in the room is working on having that level of impact.
16:52You don't need to go full-time.
16:54Regardless of where my career takes me, I hope to always play a role in government.
17:00There's everything from the Council for Inclusive Innovation that we run, that I co-chair, that
17:05Mary Barra is on.
17:06So, she sits on our Council for Inclusive Innovation.
17:08You saw a little bit about her movie, which is a great prelude to all the work we're doing
17:12around inclusive innovation.
17:14There's all kinds of committees.
17:16There's the National Advisory Council on Innovation and Entrepreneurship.
17:19There are roles opening up in that soon.
17:22That's going to time out at the end of the year, and there'll be more roles opening up.
17:26But there's so many opportunities right now in government to be on a committee, to really
17:31have your voice heard and lifted.
17:34If you're interested in that or any other government role, it really helps to know people
17:38who are in the government.
17:39So, again, feel free to email me.
17:42Tell me what you're interested in.
17:43I will connect you with the right people to make sure that you can move that forward,
17:48because we need more great women in government.
17:50One last question.
17:51Kathy, can I email you?
17:52I don't know, Allie.
17:55I have your email now.
17:57It's already too late.
17:58Kathy, thank you so much.