2017 Honda Civic Type R vs. Subaru WRX STI -TRACK REVIEW ONE TRACK MIND Ep. 6
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TechTranscript
00:00Alright, there's one very good reason why you would buy a Focus RS.
00:18You actually have to go very fast to actually get the car to do what you would consider a drift, right?
00:23But that was just second gear, 60 kilometers an hour, foot down.
00:27Drift mode allows the car to rotate, comes around, get on the throttle.
00:30That's like, just so fun. It's just so fun.
00:51So, the Focus RS, for me anyway, is the benchmark in this class.
00:55It is indeed very electronic, and actually sustaining a clean drift without the computers interrupting isn't as easy as you would think.
01:02But the fact remains that it still feels rear-wheel drive.
01:06It's also monstrously fast.
01:08I reviewed it last year against a Golf R, which I do like, but found a bit boring on the track.
01:12Now, Colin has set lap times in the RS and the Golf R, so other than the drag race you'll see in a minute with the RS, I'm going to divert my attention to these two.
01:21The Honda Civic Type R and the Subaru WRX STI.
01:26So, the Type R. It's so hot right now.
01:29Seriously, there's a lot of hype surrounding this car because for the first time it's available in North America.
01:35Well, I say available because even if you have the over $40,000 Canadian it costs, it's not exactly easy to get one.
01:41And if you can, dealers seem to be marking them up huge.
01:45So what's it all about?
01:46For starters, it looks a bit ridiculous.
01:48However, Honda says that most of those crazy body shapes in that big wing are quite functional.
01:53In fact, on the roof there's a vortex generator to help that rear wing produce more downforce.
01:58But I'm betting that those fake vents in the rear are, well, fake.
02:03Now what isn't fake, though, is the performance.
02:05306 horsepower from a four-cylinder turbo with VTEC that makes 295 pound-feet of torque way down low in the rev range.
02:13Triple center exhaust in the rear, a limited-slip differential up front, and 245 width tires make it look like it's ready to tear up some tarmac.
02:20Here's the thing, though. It's front-wheel drive.
02:23And with all the all-wheel drive options around today, you can't help but wonder, how will it stack up?
02:28So what do we have it up against?
02:30Well, your $40,000 can also get you a WRX STI, which has exactly one less horsepower than the Type R at 305.
02:37And it makes nearly the same amount of torque, but you do have to run up the gear to find it.
02:41However, it does have all-wheel drive with an adjustable center differential.
02:45This particular STI was donated by the STI Bros, hence the obligatory red mudflaps and a louder exhaust.
02:51So with both of these here at Toronto Motorsports Park, and the RS on hand, obviously we're going to have a drag race.
03:04On the left is the Ford Focus RS, 350 horsepower, all-wheel drive, and launch control.
03:09In the middle is the STI, 305 horsepower, no launch control, but it has all-wheel drive, so it should get off the line just behind the RS.
03:16The Type R is 306 horsepower and is only front-wheel drive, but it weighs over 300 pounds less than the others.
03:27Jay Sang grabbed the RS, I took the STI, and my racing driver Colin Casey, who will be setting lap times in these later, chose the Type R.
03:40Alright, let's do this.
03:50The RS killed them right away, the real race was between the STI and the Type R.
03:56Oh yeah, come on, come on, oh the Type R!
04:03And there's the finish line.
04:06That was close. Oh man. Who won? Who won?
04:11I did.
04:12No, you didn't. No way!
04:15Um, yes way.
04:18That was a good race, and it was pretty much exactly how we thought it would be. The RS just smoked them completely, right?
04:24And the STI got off the line, good launch, Type R was last off the line because of front-wheel drive, and then it just eventually walked past me.
04:32It's lighter and it's faster.
04:35That's fair. That's exactly what we expected.
04:38I was already in the STI, so I took it out for a shakedown on the track.
04:42Alright, there are a couple good reasons why you buy an STI over a WRX, and they go like this.
04:48Number one, the steering is better, the rack is quicker. That makes this a more engaging car to drive.
04:53Number two, the transmission is different, which means the ratios are closer.
04:58In the new WRX, there is a ton of rev-hang, and it is absolutely killer.
05:03It drives me nuts. It drives me absolutely nuts.
05:07I hate rev-hang, and this does not have that, okay?
05:11So that right there is the main reason that I would buy an STI, to be perfectly honest.
05:16Now, to really experience an STI, as much as I hate to say it, I shouldn't be on a track.
05:22I should be on a loose surface, because there, it's a totally different monster.
05:27So what is it like to drive on the track, right?
05:29It feels flat in the corners.
05:31The suspension is just stiff enough that it feels sporty, and the steering is good, okay?
05:36The STI has hydraulic power steering, so it communicates more than many modern cars, which makes it feel old in a good way.
05:42The powertrain, however, is a different story.
05:44In the straights, on the track, it's peaky.
05:49All right, when you're in boost, use the transmission, keep it in the, yeah, keep it in the rev range, and it's quick.
05:54This is a fast car.
05:57The STI's powertrain is enjoyable on the track, yes, but on the road, not so much.
06:03The way that the engine's set up, the new WRX is a twin-scroll turbo.
06:06This is still an older setup.
06:08This flat-four with this turbo has been around for, let's be honest, too long.
06:13This is an aging platform.
06:15Subaru needs to refresh this engine very badly.
06:18There's an advantage to using this turbo in the STI motor over the twin-scroll that you get in the regular WRX.
06:23I know that there is, but I think we need some more modern tech in this car,
06:27because out on the road, this doesn't feel like a fast car.
06:30Out here, it actually does. It feels very, very quick.
06:37So the question is, can I play around with this car at all?
06:40I've got sport-sharp, traction control completely off.
06:43All right, let's put C-Diff in manual.
06:45I've got everything shunted to the rear now.
06:48All right, here's the advantage of an STI, is that I have control over my differentials.
06:53I've got LSDs all over the place underneath this car, and I can actually control them electronically.
06:58That's good stuff. That's race car stuff.
07:00All right, under throttle, it kind of understeers, and there's really no two ways about that.
07:08The RS will power oversteer.
07:11It will power oversteer, even though it's all-wheel drive, because it sends more power to the rear.
07:15This doesn't send as much power to the rear.
07:18All right, so I end up with just understeer.
07:22Yeah, on the track, it just understeers. I don't like that.
07:26But what we will do is we'll experiment with a little bit of a different method.
07:29So I'm going to toss it into the corner and see if I can get any motion out of the chassis.
07:36No, it just understeers.
07:40It's a fun car, though. It makes a good noise. I like the torque. I like the ratios.
07:44The transmission is my favorite part of this car, because you feel like you're in a race car,
07:47because it just kind of, like, he's kind of banged through the gears.
07:50A car like this, to be a track car, needs to have an alignment and maybe some different sway bar setups
07:56or a stiffer spring rate in the rear, maybe, because it just doesn't feel as playful as the RS.
08:03It just doesn't feel as playful as the RS.
08:06All right, underpower, power, power, power, power, power, power.
08:09No, there's no power oversteer whatsoever.
08:12One thing I do have, though, is traction coming out of the corners because of the all-wheel drive.
08:17I've got the diff set all the way to the rear right now.
08:19And when I do get the power down, I get a little bit of understeer, yes, at the limit,
08:23but I'm still building speed, okay, which is good for lap times.
08:29When Colin sets his lap time in this, there's going to be a couple corners here
08:33where the STI is just going to get going out of the corner quicker,
08:36and it might make up a little bit of time.
08:39I need to make something very clear, though.
08:41I'm having a good time driving this car out here.
08:44100%. I like it. It's a fun car.
08:48I'm always game to drive an STI.
08:50The STI was as good as ever, no better, no worse.
08:54So I hustled back to the pits because I was dying to drive the Type R.
08:59All right, the Type R.
09:01Right away, I actually really like the interior of this car.
09:04It's just well-designed. I like the digital readout.
09:07There's Alcantara. It says Type R right here.
09:11I really do like the seats.
09:13They're really well-bolstered, and they're actually incredibly comfortable.
09:17The bolsters don't dig into my legs. They're actually wide enough for a normal human.
09:21All right, now the first thing you notice driving a Type R, I'm in R mode, by the way,
09:25is the steering. The weight is much, much, much better than your average car,
09:31especially nowadays.
09:33Oh, yeah. Tons of weight.
09:36Steering ratio is fast.
09:38All right, so we're in R mode. That stiffens everything up a little bit.
09:41And it also does something that I disagree with,
09:43is it turns on the auto rev-match feature.
09:45No thank you. I will do it myself.
09:47I actually had to go into the menu through, like, four menus
09:50and select driver aids and then turn off auto rev-match in R mode.
09:54So we're in R mode with the traction control completely off.
09:57This is this car at its purest.
10:00R plus mode stiffens up the steering, and it stiffens up the dampers.
10:03And I found it to be bordering on too stiff for a track like this.
10:07The pedals aren't as well-spaced as the STIs for heel-toeing.
10:10Just notice that.
10:14All right, let's talk about the engine a little bit.
10:16We have a VTEC turbo.
10:19That kind of seems like a little bit of redundancy, doesn't it?
10:22VTEC was always supposed to kind of be the natural turbo by valve timing.
10:27There's no doubt the Type R feels fast.
10:29And because of the turbo, you have access to the torque way down in the rev range,
10:33so you don't need to run it right to the red line to put the power down.
10:36But that doesn't mean that you won't still want to.
10:39Kind of has that, like, insane, like, tapping-off-the-rev-limiter feel.
10:43Listen.
10:46Oh, the brakes are fantastic.
10:50Absolutely fantastic.
10:53Yeah, this is a good car.
10:57Oh, my God.
10:59Uh-oh.
11:01Front-wheel drive is back in the fight.
11:08All right, so you just turn in,
11:10and then you just kind of, like, back off the throttle a little bit,
11:13and it tucks the nose in.
11:15It feels balanced.
11:18This is a very good car.
11:20Turbo lag is there, but it's minimal.
11:22It still encourages you to rev it right out.
11:24It kind of hits you.
11:26VTEC and turbo comes in and just punches you back into the seat.
11:31Like, the shifter is, as expected, very Honda-like.
11:34Snappy, short, positive throw into the gear.
11:38Absolutely excellent.
11:44So you can get it a little bit bent out of shape,
11:48but not really as much as the RS, right?
11:50You can't turn in in drift mode and power oversteer.
11:54So it is lacking that, unfortunately.
11:57All right, so if you were getting a car for just hooning around
12:00and sliding and having fun at the track,
12:02this probably isn't the car for you.
12:04But if you're out here to just enjoy driving fast
12:07and setting good lap times,
12:10I don't want to say that I'd want this more than the RS,
12:13but I'm getting close.
12:15I'm on, like, lap 3,
12:17and I'm really, really enjoying myself.
12:23All right, so Colin decided to challenge me here.
12:26So he's obviously going to set out, as you know,
12:28and do hot laps in both of these cars to see which one's faster.
12:31But he put the timing gear in here, and he's like,
12:33set a hot lap, see what you can do.
12:35So basically what I'm going to do is I'm just going to go and embarrass myself.
12:41All right, let's try and set a serious lap.
12:44Right up to 7. Oh, that's fun.
12:47150, 160, 170 on the straights.
12:56All right, yeah, that's quick.
12:59It has a hard time getting its power down,
13:01but it does have a limited slip differential,
13:03so it is putting power to the wheel that has grip.
13:06All right, brake, downshift, roll speed in.
13:09Oh, it rotates. There it goes.
13:11I'll heel-toe in a second.
13:13Looking for my apex. Get on it, get on it.
13:15Oh, understeer, under power. There we go.
13:18Got to be patient. Still front-wheel drive.
13:24Come on, turn in. There it is.
13:26When you really start to push it, you can feel that front-wheel drive.
13:29All right, diving on the brakes.
13:31Down in a second. Late apex.
13:33Yeah, no, it turns.
13:35Just give it more steering angle, and it starts to rotate.
13:38It's not very often you come across a street car that will do that.
13:51All right, turn in, get on the power.
14:03Rotates under brakes.
14:06Get on the power, get on it, get on it, get on it, get on it.
14:09I need to be in second gear for that last corner.
14:11I wasn't expecting a good time with one lap,
14:13but I'd find out later, because at that time I was having too much fun to care.
14:17This is a quick car. This is a fun car.
14:24I don't think I've driven a fully front-wheel drive car,
14:27other than the Focus ST, in a long time,
14:30that I've been this okay with it being front-wheel drive.
14:35And you know what? I don't think I'd want to make this an all-wheel drive car.
14:38It would make it feel heavy.
14:40Right now it feels light and exciting and frantic.
14:44This is a little bit of a game-changer for the front-wheel drive crowd.
14:49It's a good car. This is a good car.
14:52So, Thomas, what lap time did you do?
14:54I have no idea, because your phone is stupid.
14:56I don't know how to turn it on. Here, make it turn on.
14:58Actually, my phone's intelligent. The difference is that actually...
15:00Apple products, Apple products, Apple products.
15:02Android.
15:03So, your best is a 1.28.8.
15:06That's terrible.
15:08I know, right?
15:09Thomas, you are very good on camera.
15:13If he beats me by five seconds, I will actually cry.
15:16Tears will come down my face.
15:18I am hoping to do at least a 1.23.
15:21Oh, you better not do that. Okay.
15:23Didn't push that hard.
15:25It understeers a little bit coming out of the tight stuff.
15:28I could have kept making excuses all day,
15:31but Colin got bored of listening and took each car out to set his best time.
15:34He ran a ton of laps in both so he could get the best out of each of these cars.
15:38You are watching his best lap in each.
15:41For those of you that are just learning to drive on the track,
15:43pay attention to how smooth he is. You might learn something.
16:01Damn it.
16:31Damn it.
17:01So, a 1.23.76 for the Type R and a 1.25.65 for the STI.
17:12Here are the Focus RS and the Golf R times for you to compare.
17:16The Type R is in second place by only a few tenths.
17:18That is seriously impressive considering it's the only front-wheel drive car out of this bunch.
17:24So, the Type R was very close to the RS time and it took the STI by a large margin.
17:29Why?
17:30Well, it comes down to the way they turn.
17:32Now, before you all go talking about how this is rigged,
17:34I assure you that Colin doesn't care which is faster.
17:37He just drives both the best he possibly can.
17:39But the reality is, the STI had a very hard time getting turned through some of the corners.
17:44It simply doesn't rotate the same way as the Type R, even with the all-wheel drive.
17:48So, Colin couldn't carry as much speed on corner entry or exit.
17:51The Type R is lighter, faster, and more responsive.
17:54End of story.
17:55Both of these cars were limited by their stock tires.
17:58And the Type R was surprisingly close to the RS.
18:00But you know what?
18:01The Type R felt much more pure on the track.
18:03Now, the question is, between these two, which one would I take home at the end of the day?
18:08Well, even though the Type R's aggressive styling did grow on me a bit, I don't think it suits me.
18:12And since I live in Canada and we get assaulted by snow every year,
18:15the STI is the better all-around car.
18:17But that doesn't mean that I still really wouldn't consider the Type R.
18:20The thing is, I know how good an STI can be with some modifications.
18:24So, put it this way.
18:25If I wasn't allowed to mod my car, I'd take the Type R.
18:28But if I was, the STI.
18:55So, what do you think?
18:56Is it worth it?
18:57Let me know in the comments below.
18:58And as always, thanks for watching.
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