Psychiatrist Analyses Ted Bundy's Last Deception

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In the hours before his execution, Ted Bundy sat down for a last interview with James Dobson. In this interview Bundy played his final card, weaving tales of victimhood and societal blame. But was it sincere remorse or the final act of a master manipulator? Witness as a psychiatrist dissects Bundy's words, shedding light on the dark corners of this psychopathic serial killer's psyche. Hit play for an unflinching look at one of history's most infamous criminals.  #truecrime #jcs #jcsinspired #forensicpsychology #forensicpsychiatry   Related Keywords: Ted Bundy daughter Ted Bundy interview (1977) How did Ted Bundy die Ted Bundy Netflix Ted Bundy wife Ted Bundy documentary Ted Bundy childhood What did Ted Bundy daughter say about him Ted Bundy interview - youtube Ted Bundy interview (1977) Ted Bundy interview - youtube Ted Bundy daughter Ted Bundy interviews Ted Bundy - youtube Ted Bundy Netflix Ted Bundy childhood How did Ted Bundy die How did Ted Bundy die Ted Bundy daughter How old was Ted Bundy when he died Ted Bundy childhood Ted Bundy family What did Ted Bundy say about his daughter Ted Bundy documentary Ted Bundy mother Ted Bundy daughter How old was Ted Bundy when he died Ted Bundy death Ted Bundy childhood Ted Bundy wife Ted Bundy family ted bundy,bundy,ted bundy documentary,ted bundy interview,ted bundy execution,ted bundy story,ted bundy murders,ted bundy victims,ted bundy survivor,ted bundy daughter,ted bundy childhood,tede bundy,how they caught ted bundy,ted bundy car,ted bundy utah,ted bundy tapes,ted bundy facts,who is ted bundy,ted bundy trial,young ted bundy,ted bundy miedo,ted bundy movie,ted bundy death,ted bundy family,ted bundy cousin,ted bundy horror

Transcript

00:00It was like something had, say, snapped, that I knew that I couldn't control it anymore.

00:05Today we delve into the enigmatic and chilling final chapter of Ted Bundy's story,

00:11his last interview with James Dobson. Hours before his execution, Bundy engages in a psychological

00:17chess game, using his intelligence and charm in a desperate bid to avoid the chair for the

00:22multitude of horrendous murders he committed. Before we delve into today's topic, please be

00:28aware that this video discusses sensitive and potentially disturbing content related to violent

00:34crimes. Viewer discretion is advised. As we explore this chilling interview, consider what

00:40signs of manipulation you notice in Bundy's responses. Share your thoughts in the comments

00:46below. Ted, it is about 2.30 in the afternoon. Your schedule will be executed tomorrow morning

00:53at seven o'clock if you don't receive another stay. What is going through your mind? What

00:59thoughts have you had in these last few days? I won't kid you to say that it's something that I

01:09feel that I'm in control of or something that I've come to terms with, because I haven't.

01:14It's a moment-by-moment thing. Sometimes I feel very tranquil and other times I don't feel

01:21tranquil at all. What's going through my mind right now is to use the minutes and hours that

01:28I have left as fruitfully as possible and see what happens. It helps to live in the moment in

01:37the essence that we use it productively. So right now I'm feeling calm and in large part because

01:44I'm here with you. Bundy talks about using his time productively, which seems honest,

01:51but there's more to it. He claims he's a victim of intimate imagery leading him down a dark path.

01:56This narrative makes him seem less like a perpetrator and more like someone who also

02:01suffered. It's a clever move, especially when he's trying to align with Dobson's views against

02:06pornography. Does he need to be incarcerated? Yes, but he doesn't deserve execution. For years,

02:13he had denied committing the murders. Now, as part of his last gamble, he admits the murders,

02:19but denies full responsibility for them, seeking an ally in James Dobson who may intercede in his

02:25pleas for clemency and the commutation of his death sentence. Psychopaths will frequently

02:31try to use flattery to create a good impression. People much more intelligent than I have been

02:35working on for years, but one that I've been working on for years and trying to understand.

02:42It, is there enough time to explain it all? I don't know. I think I understand it though,

02:49understand what happened to me to the extent that I can see how certain feelings and ideas

02:58developed in me to the point where I began to act out on them. Certain very violent and very

03:03destructive feeling. As a psychiatrist watching this, several things stick out. Firstly, Bundy's

03:09acknowledgement of his crimes is unaccompanied by any significant overt emotional response,

03:14suggesting a lack of empathy and remorse, key elements of psychopathy. Secondly, his reflection

03:21on the development of his violent tendencies is designed to point to self-awareness, but is

03:26belied by the detachment in his tone. This is indicative of the emotional shallowness we see

03:31in psychopaths. Lastly, it is very striking to me that Bundy asks,

03:38is there enough time to explain it all? I don't know. Is there enough time to explain it all?

03:44This could be seen as either a throwaway comment or reflection on the lack of time he has to help

03:48others by explaining what he thinks happened to him. Given Bundy's psychopathy score, I think it

03:55is far more likely that this is him trying to plant the seed that if he only had more time,

04:00he could productively help society by helping it understand the suggested link between intimate

04:05imagery and the development of serial killers. Again, he is fishing for a commutation of his

04:11death sentence, but he is doing so quite subtly and in quite a superficially charming and believable

04:17manner. He's quite good at playing the part. I'll give him that.

04:47One of five brothers and sisters. A home where we as children were the focus of my parents' lives,

04:56where we regularly attended church, two Christian parents who did not drink, they did not smoke,

05:02there was no gambling, there was no physical abuse or fighting in the home. I'm not saying

05:08this was Leave it to Beaver. It wasn't a perfect home. No, no, I don't know that

05:12such a home exists, but it was a fine, solid Christian home.

05:16Bundy's emphasis on a wholesome upbringing serves to dissociate his psychopathic behavior

05:22from environmental factors. This contradicts reports of a troubled early life, suggesting

05:28an intentional narrative to absolve himself from blame and reinforce his victimhood stance.

05:35His mother reports he lived with his maternal grandfather, a man who was known to do terrible

05:40things to his children, spout racist rhetoric and kill neighborhood pets, and who is suspected

05:47of fathering Bundy with his own daughter as well. Additionally, Bundy was shoplifting,

05:53stealing and engaging in peeping Tom behaviors from a relatively early age, and was even suspected

05:59of committing his first murder at the age of 15 when Anne-Marie Burr, an eight-year-old, disappeared.

06:06In 1987, Bundy confided that he would never talk about some murders because they were committed

06:13too close to home, too close to family, or involved victims who were very young. I suspect

06:21we can believe Bundy when he said this, and believe that there were more victims and some

06:26were not yet adults.

06:56But dwelling on the issues with his upbringing wouldn't further Bundy's goal of putting all the

07:13blame on his exposure to intimate imagery. Bundy's continued insistence on intimate imagery shaping

07:19his actions is a classic psychopathic trait of externalizing blame. His ability to present this

07:25narrative in a charming, convincing manner highlights his manipulative skills, even in the

07:31face of overwhelming evidence of his intrinsic violent tendencies. He's a monster, but he's a

07:37very capable, intelligent, superficially charming, and superficially believable monster. That was why

07:43he was so dangerous.

07:55of our neighborhood and oftentimes people would dump

08:00the garbage and whatever they were cleaning out of their house and from time to time we'd come

08:04across so pornographic books of a harder nature than more graphic you might say more explicit

08:11nature than we would encounter let's say in your local grocery store and this also included such

08:16things as let's say detective magazines and more hard those that involve violence yes yes and i

08:23and this is something i think i want to emphasize is the the the most damaging

08:31kinds of pornography and my again i'm talking from personal experience

08:36hard real personal experience the most damaging kinds of pornography are those that involve

08:41violence and sexual violence because the wedding of those two forces as i know only too well brings

08:48about behavior that it's just it's just too terrible to describe again bundy emphasizes

08:56the influence of intimate imagery in his developmental years he links the combination

09:01of violence and sexual content in intimate imagery as catalytic in his development of

09:06violent behavior this aligns with his continued narrative that external factors created this

09:12sickness in him which he isn't responsible for he's the real victim here by verbally claiming

09:18responsibility while shifting the blame to external factors he follows a common tactic

09:23used in manipulative behaviors aligning with characteristics of the hair psychopathy checklist

09:29he's quite charming and outwardly believable in earnest when doing this though you can easily

09:34see how he'd have been able to put people at ease and get close enough to attack now walk me through

09:39that what was going on in your mind at that time okay before we go any further i think it's

09:44important to me and and that people that people believe what i'm saying to tell you that that i'm

09:51not blaming pornography and not saying that it caused me to go out and do certain things and i

09:59take full responsibility for whatever i've done and all the things that i've done that that i'm not

10:04blaming pornography and not saying that it caused me to go out and do certain things and i take full

10:12responsibility for whatever i've done and all the things that i've done i often see this psychopaths

10:17and other manipulators say they are doing the precise opposite of what they're doing as though

10:22saying it will cause one to miss what they're doing yes he is blaming pornography and no he

10:28isn't taking full responsibility for what he's done this contradiction is typical of psychopathic

10:34behavior where individuals often engage in manipulative tactics to appear responsible

10:39while pointing the finger elsewhere what's your take on bundy blaming intimate imagery

10:44is it a deflection of guilt or could there be some truth to his claims that's not the question here

10:50the question and and the issue is how this kind of literature contributed and helped mold and and

10:58shaped the kinds of violent behavior fueled your fantasy system well in in the beginning it fuels

11:05this kind of thought process then at a certain time it's instrumental in what

11:11would say crystallizing it make it and making into something which is almost like a separate entity

11:17inside and that in that point you're at the verge or i was at the verge of acting out on this on

11:23this kind of these kinds of here bundy again plays a double game he admits he's not a helpless victim

11:29yet he keeps emphasizing how external influences shaped his actions it's a strategic way to admit

11:35some fault while still shifting the real blame this approach is common in individuals trying

11:40to negotiate their way out of a tight spot especially when they've been caught bundy does

11:45throughout the entire interview and once you're aware of it it jumps out at you now i really want

11:51to understand that you had gone about as far as you could go in your own fantasy life with

11:57printed material and you made or printed and video or film or film magazines what happened

12:05and and then there was the urge to take that little step or big step over to a physical

12:11right event and it happens it happened in stages gradually it doesn't necessarily not to me at

12:19least happen overnight my experience with i say pornography generally but with pornography that

12:26deals on a violent level with the sexuality is that once you become addicted to it and i look

12:35at this as a kind of addiction like other kinds of addiction of addiction you keep i would keep

12:41looking for more potent more explicit more graphic kinds of material like an addiction you keep

12:48craving something which is harder harder something which which gives you a greater sense of

12:56excitement until you reach the point where the pornography only goes so far you reach

13:03that jumping off point where you begin to wonder if maybe actually doing it will give you

13:11that which is beyond just reading about it or looking at it bundy's description of his

13:15escalating need for more explicit material mirrors the pattern of addiction suggesting

13:20an increasing desensitization to violent content the problem with this for bundy is that that

13:27pattern also aligns with the psychopathic trait of needing constant stimulation or proneness to

13:32boredom in the presence of an unchanging stimulus okay so he wants us to see him as an addict yet

13:39another victim archetype trotted out and yet another way in which he isn't responsible for

13:44what he became and did bundy's expression of feeling deeply about the impact of pornography

13:50is likely another layer of his manipulation aimed at resonating with dobson's concerns

13:56his practiced manipulativeness is on full display here how long did you stay at that

14:01point before you actually assaulted someone well yeah you see

14:08that is a very delicate point

14:10in my own development and we're talking about something we're talking about having reached the

14:14point or a gray area that surrounded that point over a course of years you don't remember how

14:20long that well i would say i would say a couple years and what was i was dealing with there were

14:26very strong inhibitions against criminal behavior or violent behavior that had been conditioned into

14:34me and bred into me in my environment in my neighborhood in my church in my school

14:42things which said no this is wrong again this doesn't really reflect what we've heard from

14:46others of bundy's childhood bundy's reference to the strong inhibitions against violent behavior

14:51instilled by his environment further illustrates his effort to distance his intrinsic psychopathic

14:56tendencies from his actions it also shows that he recognizes what he did is wrong his acknowledgement

15:03of societal and moral constraints yet his eventual overriding of these inhibitions

15:09aligns with the psychopathic traits of egocentricity and lack of regard for societal norms

15:15his acknowledgement of the impact on victims and families is likely a strategic move to appear

15:21empathetic fitting his manipulative pattern i mean just even to think of it as wrong but

15:27certainly to do it as wrong and you're on well i'm on that edge and these the last you might say

15:31the last vestiges of restraint the barriers to actually doing something were being tested

15:40constantly and assault assailed um through the kind of fantasy life that was fueled

15:50largely by pornography do you remember what pushed you over that edge

15:56do you remember the decision to go for it do you remember

16:00where you decided to throw caution to the wind

16:08again when you say pushed i don't i know what you're saying i don't want to infer again i

16:13understand that i was that i was some helpless kind of a victim and yet

16:19we're talking about an influence which that is the influence of violent types of media and

16:25violent pornography which hadn't was an indispensable link in the chain bundy's

16:31insistence that he was not a helpless victim of his influences yet simultaneously attributing

16:37a significant role to these external influences in his behavior is an example of an excellent

16:44manipulative tactic once caught it is much more successful to admit fault and then actually lay

16:49the blame elsewhere than it is to just outright deny any responsibility whatsoever bundy had

16:56denied his guilt for as long as he thought it was viable and now at the end of his life has

17:02decided to admit it but lay the blame elsewhere as a final throw of the dice to get clemency

17:07in a behavior the chain of events that led to the behaviors to the to the assaults to the

17:12murders and what and what have you

17:17it's a it's a very difficult thing to describe uh

17:24the the sensation of the the of of reaching that point we were

17:35reaching that point we were i knew

17:41that it was like something had say snapped that i knew that uh that i couldn't control it anymore

17:47that these barriers that that i had had been i had learned as a child that had been instilled in me

17:54were not enough to hold me back with respect to seeking out and harming somebody this statement

18:01a common narrative in psychopathy where the individual describes a snapping point

18:06this is often used to externalize blame and deflect personal responsibility

18:11suggesting that their actions were beyond their control bundy's reference to childhood barriers

18:16indicates an awareness of societal norms but simultaneously shows a lack of true internalization

18:23of these norms typical in psychopathic behavior he knows and understands them but doesn't feel

18:29or believe them would it be accurate to call out a frenzy a sexual frenzy well yes that's one way

18:37to describe a compulsion a a building up of of this destructive energy again i another factor

18:52here that i haven't mentioned is the use of alcohol but i think that what alcohol did

18:58in conjunction with let's say my exposure to pornography was alcohol reduced my inhibitions

19:05at the same time the the the fantasy life that was fueled by pornography eroded them further

19:15bundy calls it a frenzy a compulsion this sounds like he's detaching himself from the horror of

19:21and responsibility for his actions doesn't it think about it by blaming alcohol and pornography

19:28bundy cleverly shifts the focus onto external factors and not himself in the early days you

19:34were nearly always about half drunk when you did these things is that right yes yes was that always

19:42true i i would say that that was generally the case almost what what without it's all right if

19:51i can understand it now there's this battle going on within there are the conventions that you've

19:56been taught there's the right and wrong that you learned as a child and then there is this this

20:01unbridled passion fueled by your plunge into hardcore violent pornography and those things

20:10are at war with each other yes and then with the alcohol diminishing the the inhibitions

20:17right you let go well yes and to you can summarize it that way and that's accurate certainly

20:27and it just occurred to me that some people would would say that well i i've seen that

20:35stuff and it doesn't do anything to me and i can understand that i know virtually everyone

20:41uh can be exposed to so-called pornography and while they're aroused to it to one degree or

20:46another and not go out and do anything wrong now addictions are like that they affect some people

20:50more than they affect others that there is a percentage of people affected by hardcore

20:55pornography notice how bundy leans into the idea of being intoxicated it's like he's saying it

21:01wasn't me it was the alcohol now imagine a prohibitionist hearing this they'd have a field

21:08day but again bundy's playing the blame game he's trying to convince us that the alcohol and

21:14so-called addiction to pornography are the real culprits but let's not be fooled what's really

21:20going on here in my opinion it is a master manipulator spinning a narrative to a well-meaning

21:26but clearly gullible man in an effort to save his own skin in a very violent way and you're

21:32obviously one of them that was a major component and i don't know why i was vulnerable to it all i

21:38know is that uh that it that it had an impact on me uh that was just so

21:48central to the development of the violent behavior that i engaged in ted after you committed your

21:54first murder what was the emotional effect on you what happened in the days after that

22:03hmm

22:08well again this please understand that even all these years later it's very difficult

22:16to talk about it and in reliving it through talking about it that it's difficult to say

22:23the least but i want you to understand what happened it was like coming out of

22:30some kind of horrible trance or or dream um i can only liken it to after you know i don't want to

22:41overdramatize it but to have been possessed by something so awful and so alien and then the next

22:48morning wake up from it remember what happened and realize that basically i mean in the eyes

22:54of the law certainly in the eyes of god you're responsible to have to wake up in the morning and

23:01and realize what i had done and with a clear mind and all my essential moral and ethical

23:10feelings intact at that moment

23:15absolutely horrified that i was capable of doing something like that so horrified that he took the

23:24heads home with him and assaulted the bodies repeatedly until decay and animal damage made that

23:30no longer possible if he was so horrified why did he keep repeating his crimes there's a disconnect

23:36here the pieces of his story just don't fit together when you examine them closely you really

23:42hadn't known that before there is just absolutely no way to describe first

23:56the brutal urge to do that kind of thing and then what happens is once it it has been more or less

24:05satisfied and received you might say or spent that that sense that the kind of energy

24:12the level receives and basically i became my myself again and i want people to understand

24:18this too and i'm not saying this gratuitously because it's important people understand this

24:23that basically i was a normal person uh i wasn't some guy hanging out at bars or a bum or

24:33i wasn't a pervert in the sense that you know people look at somebody and say i know there's

24:37something wrong with him and just tell i mean i i was essentially a normal person i had

24:43good friends i i i led a normal life except for this one small but very potent and very destructive

24:52segment of it that i kept very secret very close to myself and didn't let anybody know about it

24:58and part of the shock and horror from my dear friends and family when years ago when i was

25:03first arrested was that they just there was no clue they looked at me and they looked at the

25:08you know the um the all-american boy and i'm i mean i wasn't perfect but it was i want to be

25:14quite candid with you i was i was okay okay i was and the basic humanity and basic spirit that god

25:25gave me was intact but unfortunately became overwhelmed at times i think people need to

25:31recognize that it's not some kind of those of us who are who have been so much influenced by

25:41violence in the media in particular pornographic violence are not some kinds of inherent monsters

25:49we are your sons and we are your husbands and we grew up in regular families and pornography can

25:57reach out and snatch a kid out of any house today he snatched me out of my home it snatched me out

26:03of my home 20 30 years ago and as diligent as my parents were

26:14and they were diligent in protecting their children

26:16and as good a christian home as we had and we had a wonderful christian home

26:24there is no protection against the kind that the kinds of influences that are loose in the society

26:30that tolerates again a tissue of lies he wasn't a normal person what he was was a murderous

26:38psychopath who had constructed a facade of normalcy to camouflage the real him here he

26:43is pretending the facade was the real him that's simply not true

26:50you feel this really deeply don't you

26:54head outside these walls right now there are several hundred reporters that wanted to talk

27:01to you yeah and you asked me to come here from california because you had something you wanted

27:08to say this hour that we have together is not just an interview with a man who's scheduled to

27:17die tomorrow morning you feel this really deeply no no he doesn't i can absolutely guarantee you

27:24that as a man who scored 39 out of 40 on the psychopathy checklist he absolutely does not

27:31feel this deeply this is just james dobson seeing what he wants to see as bundy bet he would

27:37score one point for bundy's psychopathic and expert manipulativeness and another one for

27:43some pretty good acting while dobson is talking i'm here and you're here because of this message

27:49that you're talking about right here you really feel that hardcore pornography and the doorway

27:56to it soft core pornography is doing untold damage to other people and causing other women

28:04to be abused and killed the way you did her listen i'm no social scientist and i haven't

28:12done a survey i mean i i don't pretend that i know what john q citizen thinks about this

28:18but i've lived in prison for a long time now and i've met a lot of men who were motivated

28:26to commit violence just like me and without exception every one of them was deeply involved

28:34in pornography without question without exception no ted you're a serial killer of young women who

28:40is looking to get out of being executed and you'll do and say anything to get out of being executed

28:46this includes trying to negotiate for your life in return for giving up the details of where your

28:52victims bodies were and while you engaged in those negotiations you also said you were motivated by

28:58a desire to provide closure to the families but if that were true then you'd just have given up

29:04the details to the families and in reality you didn't because it wasn't about the families

29:09or closure it was about saving your own skin deeply influenced and consumed by an addiction

29:16to pornography there's no question about it the fbi's own study on serial homicide shows that the

29:24most common interest among serial killers is pornography that's true and it's and it's real

29:32it's true wow an fbi study backup bundy's claim that's really convincing except that he's

29:38misrepresenting the study and that isn't what it actually showed but it sure sounded like a good

29:43line and as we see dobson swallowed it hook line and sinker ted what would your life have been like

29:52without that influence

29:59you can only speculate yeah well i i know it would have hit far better not just for me and

30:07and it's excuse me for being so self-centered here it would have been a lot better for me and

30:12lots of other people i know they had lots of other innocent people victims and families it would have

30:19been a lot better there's no question but it it would have been a fuller life certainly a life

30:26that would not have involved i'm absolutely certain would not have evolved involved this

30:33kind of violence that i have been that i have committed again he is deflecting responsibility

30:38for his actions painting a picture of a ted bundy who never saw intimate imagery who would have been

30:44pious and lovely his acknowledgement of the impact on victims and families is designed to appear as a

30:49sign of empathy but given the context and his psychopathic traits it is more about creating a

30:55certain image and narrative which he believes will be favorable to him i'm sure ted if you know if i

31:04were able to ask you the questions that are being asked out there i mean one of the most important

31:10as you come down to perhaps your final hours are you thinking about all those victims out there in

31:17their families well who are so wounded you know years later their lives have not returned to

31:23normal they will never return to normal absolutely are you carrying that load that weight is the

31:28remorse there again i know that people will accuse me of being self-serving but we're beyond

31:38that now i mean i'm just telling you how i feel but through god's help i have been able to come

31:45to the point where i've much too late but better late than never feel the hurt and the pain that i

31:54am responsible for yes absolutely i'm sure dobson viewed bundy's claim of remorse and acknowledging

32:01the pain he caused as significant and i'm sure he would have appreciated bundy's statement that it

32:07was with god's help he was somewhat healed however given his psychopathic profile this expression of

32:15remorse must be viewed skeptically it just seems very rehearsed to me psychopaths are known for

32:21their lack of genuine empathy and remorse and such statements are far more likely to be part

32:27of his manipulations to receive commutation of his sentence in the past few days myself and a number

32:33of investigators have been talking about unsolved cases murders that i was involved in and it's hard

32:42to it's hard to talk about all these years later because it revives in me all those terrible feelings

32:48and those thoughts that i have

32:53steadfastly and and diligently dealt with i think successfully with the love of god

33:02and yet it's reopened that and i felt the pain and i felt the horror again

33:06of all that and i can only hope that those who i have harmed and those who i've called so much grief

33:18even if they don't believe my expression of sorrow and remorse will believe what i'm saying now again

33:30i think bundy is being honest just not in the manner he wishes us to believe he does want people

33:36to believe what i'm saying now but as a psychopath with a 39 out of 40 score on the psychopathy test

33:44it is simply unbelievable that he feels all the sorrow and remorse he claims his mind simply

33:50doesn't work that way he wants you to think it does so you can identify with him feel empathy

33:56for him and want to pardon him but he doesn't have that empathy within himself at all and again we

34:03have the references to god because his interviewer is religious that there is loose in their towns

34:11in their communities people like me today

34:18whose dangerous impulses are being fueled day in and day out by violence in the media in its

34:27various forms particularly sexualized violence and what scares me and let's come into the present now

34:35because what i'm talking about happened 30 20 30 years ago that is in my formative stages

34:42and what scares and appalls me dr dobson is when i see what's on cable tv

34:48some of the movies i mean some of the violence in the movies that come into homes today

34:54with stuff that they that they wouldn't show in x-rated adult theaters 30 years ago this stuff

35:01the slasher movies that you're talking about that stuff is i'm telling you from personal experience

35:07the most that is graphic violence on screen particularly as it gets into the home to

35:15children who may be unattended or or unaware that they may be a ted bundy who has that that

35:22vulnerability to that that predisposition to be influenced by that kind of behavior by that kind of

35:28of a movie that kind of violence that there are kids sitting out there switching the tv dial around

35:35and come upon these movies late at night or i don't know when they're on but they're on and

35:39any kid can watch them it's scary when i think what would have happened to me if i had seen i'm

35:45scary enough i mean that i just ran into stuff outside the home but to speak to to know that

35:51children are watching that kind of thing today or can pick up their phone and dial away for it or

35:57send away for it particularly as it gets into the home to children who may be unattended or

36:03or unaware that they may be a ted bundy who has that that vulnerability to that that predisposition

36:10to be influenced by that kind of behavior by that kind of movie that kind of violence oh yes won't

36:17someone think of the children it's really interesting to see his manipulation at work

36:21as i see it he had three main strands to his attempts to receive commutation firstly negotiating

36:27with the authorities to reveal further details of his crimes and where the bodies were buried in

36:31return for commuting his death sentence secondly appealing to dobson's religiosity through claiming

36:37that he has found god and been changed through this revelation a claim which he could reasonably

36:42expect to motivate dobson or others to seek a stay on his death sentence thirdly suggesting that he

36:48may be able to provide insight into the how exposure to intimate imagery turned him into a

36:53serial killer and by helping understand this he may save lives in future it's the mind hunter

36:59defense as a psychopath none of these rationales are believable instead it is much more believable

37:06that these are all placed to externalize blame avoid responsibility and avoid the death penalty

37:14can you help me understand this desensitization process that took place what was going on in

37:20your mind well by desensitization i describe it in specific terms is that

37:30each time i'd harm someone each time i'd kill someone there'd be an enormous amount

37:38especially at first enormous amount of horror guilt remorse afterwards but then that impulse

37:46to do it again would come back even stronger bundy's description of desensitization reflects

37:51a common phenomenon in serial crimes where initial emotional responses to violence diminish over time

37:58this increasing detachment aligns with psychopathic traits of lacking empathy and remorse

38:03however bundy's claim of experiencing horror guilt remorse is atypical for psychopathy where such

38:10emotions are usually shallow or non-existent if we are to believe his horror guilt and remorse

38:16how do we explain that he didn't provide a full detailing of his crimes and where he left the

38:21bodies the most logical conclusion given what we know about bundy is that he didn't have any horror

38:28guilt and remorse but was just saying what he felt gave him the best chance of surviving now

38:34believe me i didn't the unique thing about how this worked dr dotson is that i still felt

38:41in my regular life the full range of of guilt and and uh remorse about other things uh regret

38:48and you had this compartmentalized this compartmentalized very well focused

38:55very sharply focused area where i was like a black hole it was like a

39:00you know like a crack and everything that fell into that crack just disappeared

39:04does that make sense you can take this one of two ways firstly that bundy is being dishonest

39:09and didn't experience a compartmentalization of empathy guilt regret and remorse but instead is

39:17saying that because it fits his narrative or secondly that bundy despite scoring 39 out of

39:2240 on the psychopathy checklist somehow felt normal human empathy in all aspects of his life

39:28except that aspect which encompassed his mistreatment of and killing of women

39:33that simply isn't believable or keeping with the details of what he did to them both pre

39:37and post-mortem it does uh one of the the final murders that you committed of course

39:46was apparently a little kimberly leach 12 years of age i think the the public outcry

39:53is greater there because an innocent child was taken from a from a playground what did you feel

39:59after that where was there were there the normal emotions three days later where were you dead i

40:12i can't really talk about that right now that's real

40:19that's too painful i would like to uh i'd like to be able to convey to you what that

40:29that uh that experience is like but i can't i won't be able to talk about that

40:42i can't begin to understand well i can try but i'm i'm

40:49aware that i can't begin to understand the pain

40:54that the parents of these of these children that i have and these young women that i've

41:01harmed feel and i can't restore really much to them if anything i won't pretend to and i don't

41:11even expect them to forgive me and i'm not asking for the kind of forgivenesses of god and if they

41:17have it they have it they don't well maybe they'll find it someday do you deserve the punishment the

41:23state has inflicted upon you that's a very good question i'll answer very very honestly i i don't

41:32want to die i'm not going to kid you i'll kid you not um i deserve certainly the most extreme

41:41punishment society has and i deserve i think society deserves to be protected from me and

41:49from others like me that's for sure i think what i what i hope will come of our discussion

41:57is i think society deserves to be protected from itself because because of we as we've been talking

42:06there are there are forces at loose in in this country particularly again this kind of violent

42:12pornography where on the one hand well-meaning decent people will condemn behavior of a ted

42:23bundy while they're walking past a a magazine rack full of the very kinds of things that send

42:30young kids down the road to be ted bundy's bundy's response to the question of deserving punishment

42:35is multifaceted on one hand he acknowledges deserving the most extreme punishment and

42:42recognizes the need for society to be protected from him which might seem like an acceptance of

42:48responsibility however he quickly shifts the focus to society needing protection from itself

42:54particularly from violent pornography this shift can be seen as a continuation of his narrative that

43:00external factors rather than his own psychopathic traits are to blame for his actions his focus on

43:08societal hypocrisy also diverts attention from his own guilt and is a manipulative tactic typical of

43:14psychopathic behavior i believe his reference to divine forgiveness can be seen as an appeal to

43:20dobson's religious or moral sensibilities and is another manipulative strategy that's the irony

43:26we're talking here not just about more we're talking on what i'm talking about is going beyond

43:32retribution which is what people want with me going beyond retribution and punishment because

43:40there is no way in the world that killing me is going to restore uh those beautiful children to

43:47their parents and and and correct and and and soothe the pain but i'll tell you there are lots

43:55of other kids playing in streets around this country today who are going to be dead tomorrow

44:01and the next day and the next day and next month because other young people are reading the kinds

44:06of things and seeing the kinds of things that are available in the media today bundy is suggesting

44:11that his execution won't solve the underlying problems he evinces to believe contributed to

44:17violent behavior his narrative seems to be that killing him won't restore the children so there's

44:22no point killing him instead society should focus on the intimate imagery which is busy creating the

44:29next generation of serial killers ted as you would imagine there is tremendous cynicism about you on

44:34the outside and i suppose for good reason i'm not sure that there's anything that you could say

44:40that people would would believe some people would believe yeah and and yet you told me last night

44:48and i have heard this through our mutual friend john tanner that you have accepted the forgiveness

44:56of jesus christ and are a follower and a believer in him do you draw strength from that yeah as you

45:03approach these final hours i do i can't say that uh it's going to be being in the the valley of the

45:11shadow of death is is something that i've become all that accustomed to and then i you know and

45:16then i'm strong and uh nothing bothering me uh listen it's no fun it's it's it you know it's it's

45:25it's it's kind of lonely and yet

45:30i have to remind myself that every one of us

45:34will go through this someday you know in one way or another and the man and countless

45:39millions who have walked this earth before us have so this is just an experience which we all share

45:44and you know here i am bundy's expression of religious belief and acceptance of forgiveness

45:52can be interpreted in different ways on one hand it could represent a genuine turning point in his

45:58life an acceptance of a higher power and a search for redemption however considering bundy's

46:05psychopathic traits particularly manipulative behavior this is unlikely and is just another

46:11attempt to cast himself in a favorable light in the shadow of ted bundy's execution our exploration

46:18of his final interview offers a haunting glimpse into manipulation and psychopathy his last days

46:24weren't just marked by reflection but also by a frantic scramble for clemency despite efforts by

46:31his attorney and some supporters to sway opinion including pleas to the families of the victims

46:36and plea to governor bob martinez their attempts were starkly rebuffed the families refused his

46:43pleas and governor martinez declared we are not going to have the system manipulated for him to

46:49be negotiating for his life over the bodies of victims is despicable a grave reminder of the

46:55reality behind bundy's machinations in closing our journey through ted bundy's final interview

47:01paints a haunting picture of manipulation and psychopathy it's crucial to remember the real

47:07victims of bundy's crimes the lives tragically cut short and families forever altered their genuine

47:14suffering stands in stark contrast to bundy's feigned victimhood having heard bundy's final

47:19words and our analysis what are your thoughts on how society should deal with such manipulative

47:24individuals do you think we are currently equipped to identify and prevent potential dangers posed by

47:30individuals like bundy what are your thoughts about his final interview join the conversation

47:35and help us dissect these complex criminal minds here on crime and psychiatry if you'd like to

47:41learn more about psychopaths serial killers and criminal psychology please check out our channel

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