Dragons.Den.CA.S19E03
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00:00Tonight, one of Hollywood's biggest stars enters the den.
00:08First pitch of the day, baby.
00:10He's a Marvel superhero.
00:12Is this what you wanted?
00:14He's a Ken in Barbie.
00:15I can.
00:16And now Simu Liu is a dragon.
00:19Well, I have a Hollywood-sized question.
00:21You know what you need is you need a celebrity presence.
00:24I'm not opposed. Who would that be?
00:26When he's not walking red carpets...
00:28Hello.
00:29He's looking to back the next big business.
00:32From Kim's Convenience to Marvel Megastar.
00:36Oh!
00:37He's ready to give the dragons a run for their money.
00:40He's a superhero.
00:42Simu Liu, he's a Hollywood heavyweight,
01:08starring in some of the world's biggest movies,
01:11has a leading role as Ken in the blockbuster Barbie
01:15and as a classic villain in Jackpot.
01:19He's also Marvel's first Chinese superhero,
01:22with his starring turn in Shang-Chi
01:24and The Legend of the Ten Rings.
01:27What you don't know is he set out to become an accountant.
01:32Born in Harbin, China,
01:34he came to Canada at five years old
01:36to join his parents in pursuit of a better life.
01:39Raised with a strict academic work ethic,
01:41Simu graduated from a prestigious business school
01:44before landing a job at one of the world's
01:46largest accounting firms,
01:48only to be fired nine months later.
01:51Do I clap it?
01:52Hey, my name is Simu Liu,
01:53and I was fired for skipping work
01:55to be an extra on Pacific Break.
01:57That failure ended up being one of the best things
02:00that ever happened to me
02:01because it led me to my true passion.
02:04Hello!
02:06Now at just 35, he's a modern-day renaissance man.
02:11An actor, a dancer, a musician,
02:13and a best-selling author.
02:16And he's using his star power for a purpose.
02:19I think coming up as an Asian Canadian
02:21in the entertainment industry,
02:22I was constantly being reminded of what I couldn't do,
02:26what was not possible.
02:28Simu, you want to come up here?
02:30With his background in business,
02:31he's created his own investment fund,
02:34Markham Valley Ventures.
02:35Our mission statement is really
02:36to empower minority entrepreneurs
02:38and to make sure that they have the same opportunities
02:40as anyone else.
02:41We truly feel like we have the ability
02:44to knock down doors
02:45and to make calls and to persuade people.
02:48His roster of investments
02:49already includes soup dumplings,
02:51a sparkling water brand,
02:52and consumer tech.
02:54Now he's looking to back even more diverse businesses.
02:58And tonight, he's taking his seat in the den
03:01to find the next great deal.
03:05First up, an entrepreneur from Ottawa
03:08who's hoping her new sport is a hit with the Dragons.
03:14Hello there.
03:16Hi, Dragons.
03:17My name is Amanda.
03:18I'm from Ottawa, Ontario,
03:20and I'm here today seeking $50,000
03:22in exchange for 5% of our company's board ball.
03:26Volleyball is fun.
03:27What's not fun is the expensive equipment required.
03:30Setting up a traditional net with heavy poles,
03:32finding a court,
03:33gathering a large group of people,
03:34these are all reasons to make the sport inaccessible.
03:37But we've come up with a solution.
03:39Check it out.
03:41Ooh.
03:42Board ball is a new sport we've created
03:44that aims to lower the barriers to playing volleyball
03:47by combining volleyball
03:48with another wildly popular and portable sport, spikeball.
03:52Ooh, you can tell that they play.
03:54Yeah, they've done this a few times.
03:57Oh.
03:59So, Simu, I heard you love volleyball.
04:02Ready to get a game on?
04:03Yeah, I feel like I'm the sporty spice of the bunch,
04:06so I should be doing this for sure.
04:08All right, all right, here we go.
04:10We're going to be on the same team.
04:11Ready? Let's go.
04:13All right.
04:14I want to play.
04:15Jump on in.
04:16David and Michelle, you guys together?
04:17Here we go.
04:19The game is played 2v2,
04:21and instead of hitting over a net,
04:22you're hitting onto a board
04:23and can hit anywhere around that board.
04:25But by using a full-size volleyball,
04:27you really get that ultimate bump, set, spike experience.
04:31Ah, come on.
04:33God, it hits so hard.
04:34I really wanted a kill shot.
04:36Okay, let's talk business.
04:38All right.
04:40Nice, you got it.
04:42Let's do it.
04:44Nice, great job.
04:46All right, we'll edit the clip so that that's all you see me do.
04:48It's just that from different angles, right?
04:50This is reality television, Simu.
04:52We don't do that.
04:54How was it? Was it fun?
04:55That was fun, yeah.
04:57I really liked it.
04:59I played varsity volleyball in high school
05:01and pretty seriously, like, throughout my adult life.
05:04So what Amanda's saying is absolutely right,
05:06is, like, it's tough to get a group of people together.
05:08It's tough to, like, you know, set up a net.
05:10Sometimes you have to go to the beach, set up a net there.
05:12It's just very tough.
05:13It's so hard.
05:14How does this differ than spikeball?
05:17Boardball specifically uses a full-size volleyball,
05:19so you're really keeping the fundamentals of volleyball in there.
05:22The way you interact is different.
05:24The gameplay and the movement is quite similar in the 360 motion,
05:28but how you actually play is a lot more like volleyball.
05:30I want to understand your market for a second.
05:32This isn't the beach, go have a beer or a cold drink and play this game.
05:36Yeah, so coming from a volleyball background,
05:38I think my initial intention was always,
05:40I'm going to take this to the highest level of athletes,
05:43and I brought on Olympic players who love the game.
05:45But I quickly learned that what we were doing
05:48was creating a very accessible version of volleyball.
05:50Accessible, why?
05:51Because of the price point, because it's easy to carry around.
05:54Like, why is this accessible?
05:55Because it's easy to set up.
05:56It feels like volleyball.
05:57You've got the same, it's the same ball,
05:59and you feel like when I'm making the digging motions and the setting,
06:02like, you are building those skills.
06:04So as you're getting better at boardball,
06:06you're actually also getting better at volleyball.
06:08Yeah, a lot of coaches and PE teachers loved boardball
06:11for its ability to actually engage the students
06:14in a way that is physically demanding,
06:15but also building fundamentals that allow you to be fit for life.
06:18Amanda, how much money have you got invested in this?
06:21So, we've invested $260,000.
06:24Who's we?
06:25Myself and my partner who was very supportive when I started this journey.
06:29Wow.
06:30I grew up with immigrant parents.
06:32Growing up, I learned, you know,
06:34the struggles of being scrappy and resourceful.
06:37They taught me really good foundations early on.
06:39My mom immigrated from Cambodia,
06:41lost her parents pretty much at a very young age and came here.
06:44My dad immigrated and, you know, escaped his country by boat.
06:47So, naturally, they really wanted me to have a secure and stable life.
06:52But I think that what I've learned
06:54and what I've been privileged by being in this country
06:56is that talent is truly distributed globally,
06:59but opportunities are not.
07:00Very true.
07:01Very true.
07:02Yeah, I love that.
07:03How are you going to educate people on the rules of the game?
07:07That takes a lot of money.
07:08Yes, so content is key for us.
07:11Okay.
07:12We've got a lot of great players,
07:13a lot of great ambassadors who are on board right now
07:16who are helping us with content, developing the actual gameplay.
07:19You know what you need is you need a celebrity presence.
07:22You need someone kind of famous.
07:24Someone to take off their shirt and play.
07:27I'm not opposed.
07:28Who would that be?
07:29Imagine.
07:32What does the product cost?
07:33It costs $229,000.
07:35What does it cost you to make it?
07:36$78,000.
07:37What are your sales?
07:38From September 2021 onwards, we had $155,000 in sale.
07:42The following year, we had $216,000,
07:45and then last year was $276,000.
07:48This year, we're on track for $600,000.
07:50$600,000?
07:51And then what's your cost of customer acquisition?
07:53CAC is $35.
07:55We haven't spent too much on marketing to really...
07:58Yeah, how much have you spent on that so far?
08:00Of our lifetime, we spent $44,000.
08:02$20,000 was actually in paid ads,
08:04and that's actually my background.
08:06So I run an agency,
08:07and I know the route for what it's going to take
08:10from a marketing standpoint.
08:11I have the game plan for that.
08:12So you're running a marketing firm,
08:14and you're doing this part-time.
08:17Do you think that that's going to make an investor excited?
08:24If you were forced to pick one,
08:27the agency or board ball,
08:30you could only go all in on one.
08:32What would you pick right now?
08:34Before the break, none of the dragons are out.
08:37But will they invest in this part-time entrepreneur's new sport?
08:42So you're running a marketing firm,
08:44and you're doing this part-time.
08:46Do you think that that's going to make an investor excited?
08:50If you were forced to pick one,
08:52the agency or board ball,
08:54you could only go all in on one.
08:56What would you pick right now?
08:58If you were forced to pick one,
09:01If you were forced to pick one,
09:03the agency or board ball,
09:06you could only go all in on one.
09:08What would you pick right now?
09:10I'd pick board ball because with the agency,
09:12we do have a plan for exit.
09:16First of all, it looks like great exercise.
09:19I hear Michelle in my ears just huffing and puffing,
09:23and she's in great shape.
09:25Sorry you had to hear me huff.
09:28The issue that I have is the time, the money,
09:33and the energy that it will take
09:35to educate the market on the product.
09:38You can't do everything and do something else
09:40at the same time in this business.
09:43So I'm going to be out for that reason.
09:48You're a marketer.
09:49What do you get?
09:50$50,000 is not going to build this
09:52to a multi-million dollar business.
09:54You're going to need lots more capital.
09:56I don't like that you're part-time at it.
09:58I don't like that you haven't asked for enough money
10:00to really get it where it needs to be.
10:03At this point as an investment, I'm going to be out.
10:07You're sort of cautious going,
10:09I want to prove it out before I commit.
10:12I also don't love the comparison to spike ball
10:14because when I hear you say,
10:16this is an athletic sport,
10:18this isn't a drinking game, sit on the beach,
10:21the comparison to spike ball creates that story for me.
10:24For those reasons, I'm out.
10:27Here's the crazy thing about businesses, Amanda.
10:29Windows close.
10:30You have a limited time to build a brand
10:34and your biggest challenge is you're distracted.
10:36If you want to win and if you want an investment,
10:39you have to go all in on this.
10:42Michelle is out?
10:43Yeah, I'm going to be out on this.
10:48So Amanda, I love your enthusiasm.
10:51I love your passion for this
10:52and I love that you actually created something.
10:54Not only did you come up with the idea, you've innovated.
10:57Now it's about going and selling it, right?
10:59And so I really do think that you do need some help there.
11:02I will help you with manufacturing.
11:04I will help you with a retail strategy
11:06because you do need to go to retail.
11:08And I will help you with the education space.
11:10But you do need more money.
11:11$50,000 is not enough.
11:13So I will offer you $100,000 for 15% of the business.
11:17Wow.
11:19Okay.
11:20Okay.
11:21Well, Amanda, I think what really spoke to me
11:25about your personality that's really shining through
11:29in this pitch is your immigrant grit
11:32that I feel like as a child of immigrant parents,
11:35I really resonate with.
11:36And it's that immigrant grit that, you know,
11:40my mom's, you know, pursuing her studies full-time
11:44at Queens University
11:45while washing dishes every single night.
11:48You couldn't have told her
11:49that she wasn't focused on her studies.
11:51She's doing what she has to do in order to survive.
11:53And I feel like that grit exists in all of us.
11:56It's in our DNA.
11:57So I would say I want to do $100,000.
12:02I want to keep your valuation at 10%.
12:04But I would want a 2% royalty on all sales
12:06because I'm going to be out there.
12:07You want to take money out of the company.
12:09It's going to be my body and my likeness playing board ball.
12:15Is there a limit with the 2% royalty?
12:18I would say no.
12:19We have an opportunity here to really make something global.
12:23And I believe that I have the presence
12:25to help you do that and the connections.
12:27So I want to get you into retail in Canada,
12:29but I also want to get you into retail in the States
12:32and everywhere else.
12:33I want to make board ball inescapable.
12:35I want it to be around.
12:36I want people to bring it on vacation.
12:38But he hasn't done it before.
12:39I've done it.
12:41I think we're so excited to grow board ball globally.
12:45I think there's something here, and it's going to be great.
12:49I'd love to take your offer, Simu.
12:51All right.
12:52Good job.
12:53First pitch of the day, baby.
12:55Congrats, Simu.
12:56Congrats, Amanda.
12:57Can't wait to play some board ball with you.
12:59Oh, let's go.
13:00Thank you, everyone.
13:01Congratulations, Amanda.
13:02You made the wrong choice, but congratulations.
13:04Thank you anyway.
13:05Thank you so much for your time.
13:10Simu was incredibly engaged.
13:12I think he really understood what we're trying to do here.
13:15I think we connected in terms of our backgrounds,
13:17so I'm super pumped for where we're going to take board ball next.
13:21I'm Simu's first deal in the Dragon's Den.
13:23All right, let's go.
13:24All right.
13:25Me and Michelle versus Brian and Arlene.
13:27I'm coming in.
13:28Let's go.
13:29I'm coming in.
13:30You and I get to sit here.
13:31Yeah, I'm happy to sit in my heel.
13:32Me too.
13:33Okay, so it's it.
13:34It's it.
13:35So we're here.
13:36We're here.
13:37There you go.
13:38There we go.
13:40Look at those shoes.
13:41Those shoes were not meant to play sports, Brian.
13:43The shoes are too fancy.
13:44All right, maybe you guys shouldn't endorse the product.
13:51I don't know.
13:52It should have been, I can't play board ball,
13:54and for that reason, I'm out.
13:56That's right.
13:57I suck at volleyball.
13:59So you're hiring high-end security guards
14:01when you need them for certain situations like Simu
14:04when you're managing talent?
14:06I mean, I know he's a superhero, but do you...
14:08He doesn't need any security.
14:10He can protect himself.
14:26This is a very huge leap for us.
14:28First pitch, first everything.
14:29Discussion with investors, first everything for us,
14:32so we're expecting something fantastic out of it.
14:37Next in the den, a security startup
14:39that's ready to lock down a deal with the Dragons.
14:43Simu, is this your security detail?
14:45Oh, finally, my bodyguards are here.
14:47Oh, exactly.
14:48Okay, do we need to stand at attention?
14:50You know this is a big deal.
14:52Oh, man.
14:53Big deal coming.
14:57Hello, Dragons.
14:58My name's Nathan Alexander.
15:00And I'm Arne Calixto.
15:01And we are...
15:02AC Security.
15:03From Winnipeg, Manitoba.
15:05We're seeking $350,000 for 8% of our company.
15:09Wow.
15:10AC Security is revolutionizing the way that you do, see,
15:13and experience security guard services.
15:15Our pioneering technology and mobile application
15:18are what sets us apart,
15:20offering unprecedented real-time access
15:22to our clients' security guard service needs.
15:25We'd love to do a quick demonstration
15:27of our mobile technology.
15:28Great.
15:29Nathan, want to pull up your application there?
15:31Absolutely.
15:32Let's set up an event for Taylor Swift.
15:35Absolutely.
15:36One for the Swifties.
15:37Taylor Swift.
15:38Here we go.
15:39Let's do that.
15:40I think Simu is a big Swifty.
15:41Big Swifty.
15:42Personal protection?
15:43Personal protection, yes.
15:44Absolutely.
15:45She's flying into Vancouver here.
15:46The AC Security app allows customers to book a security guard
15:50at a time and place of their choosing.
15:52And with that, a little bit of risk level.
15:55Maximum.
15:56Maximum.
15:57Maximum.
15:58It's Taylor.
15:59Simu really likes her.
16:01The app then connects to available staff
16:03and offers them a shift.
16:05Looks like I have a shift here.
16:07Perfect.
16:08And just like that, we set a shift for our security guard
16:10to take care of Taylor Swift in Vancouver.
16:12Okay.
16:13Any questions?
16:14Lots.
16:15Lots.
16:16Lots.
16:17Lots.
16:18I want to know why.
16:19Why?
16:20So why security or why?
16:22Why are you two doing this?
16:23You know what?
16:24I've always been, actually since I was 16,
16:26I was bouncing or being a doorman.
16:28So you decided to build it into a business and security?
16:31Correct.
16:32And then where did you come into the picture?
16:33I was actually hiring him at a restaurant that I was managing,
16:36and so he would do the security,
16:38and then eventually we just started talking
16:40to a point where I was like, well, this could actually be something.
16:43So we started taking on more clients,
16:45slowly evolving, slowly growing,
16:47to the point where we're at today.
16:49We have about 398 employees on payroll now.
16:53398?
16:54That's all in the Winnipeg area?
16:57Correct.
16:58We are only in Manitoba.
16:59Wow.
17:00You guys have dominated Manitoba.
17:01So are you hiring high-end security guards
17:03when you need them for certain situations,
17:05like Simu when you're managing talent?
17:08I mean, I know he's a superhero, but do you?
17:10He doesn't need any security.
17:12He can protect himself.
17:13We do it all.
17:14So we do event security, we do residential security,
17:17we do retail theft security,
17:18we do personal protection security,
17:20we do events throughout the province.
17:22We do hire a full range of staff.
17:24If they've never been in the industry, we start them out,
17:26we get them licensed, and we continue to train them
17:29so that they do become the best in the industry.
17:31What was your revenue last year?
17:32Yeah, so three years ago, just starting out,
17:34we were doing about $150,000.
17:36Next year, after that, two years ago, we did $959,000.
17:40And then this past year, we did $1.6 million.
17:43How much have you guys made on that?
17:45So this past year was a loss
17:46because we are investing into this sector.
17:48How much did you lose last year?
17:49$150,000 with the investment into the technology,
17:52and as well, retraining and hiring new management.
17:57And how is this more than a security company
18:01with an online scheduling interface?
18:03Yeah, absolutely.
18:04So there's no other company that has their own
18:06internal security workforce management application.
18:08That's because it's hard to build software.
18:10You've got to specialize in doing that.
18:11The second thing is, as you want to sell your software
18:14to other competitors, they don't want to buy it from you
18:17because you have a competitive core service.
18:19Absolutely.
18:20So with that, we're not intending to sell it
18:22to other companies.
18:23We do have an eventual model that could involve franchising
18:26where somebody will actually buy our technologies
18:29and then start to establish themselves.
18:31That model is still coming down the road.
18:33A friend of mine owns Paladin Security.
18:35Okay.
18:36You know them.
18:37They're across the country.
18:38They're massive.
18:39I'm having a hard time understanding what is different.
18:41Yeah, absolutely.
18:42But again, they don't have their internal technology,
18:44which will allow them to basically capture
18:46the data necessary.
18:47Oh, I find that hard to believe.
18:48Such a big company, Paladin?
18:49No way.
18:50Yeah, so they do have, again,
18:51they have a separate workforce management software system
18:53that is owned externally.
18:55They do not have access to all that internal data
18:58for their employees.
18:59Of course they do.
19:00When you use a software provider,
19:01you have access to all the data.
19:02For sure you do.
19:04They might use a different platform,
19:06but they have all the data.
19:07To an extent, yeah, absolutely.
19:08There's no innovation here.
19:10Like, you guys have a service-based business,
19:12and then you built a little piece of internal software.
19:15Like, I just don't understand
19:16how this could possibly be a venture investment.
19:18For sure.
19:19Like, there's nothing unique.
19:20Like, the innovation in the security space
19:22is using cameras and having remote monitoring.
19:24Sure.
19:25Those are now big $100 million.
19:26Like, there's lots of things that have happened here.
19:28Michelle, what's unique is a $150,000 loss
19:30for a $4.4 million valuation.
19:32That's pretty unique.
19:33That's very unique, yes, definitely.
19:37I'm not going to debate your valuation,
19:39but I think you're early on.
19:41You're the first three years.
19:42You haven't made money yet.
19:43I think you've got to decide.
19:44We were profitable in those first two, yeah.
19:46Yeah, but third year, you're not, so currently.
19:48True.
19:49At this stage, I'm out.
19:51Got it.
19:53I'm just not seeing this special sauce
19:56that differentiates you from competitors.
19:58You've got to figure out what that tech side is going to be
20:00before you come in front of us with it,
20:03but for now, I'm out.
20:06For me, guys, no value proposition.
20:08Also, you're in the service-based business
20:10that is really hard to scale
20:12and to make money at.
20:14I'm out.
20:17So, fellas, I'm probably the only one up here
20:19who was actually on the board of a security company.
20:22Okay.
20:23And it's a tough, tough sector to compete in.
20:26It is.
20:27It's going to be a long slog to make it work,
20:31and it's going to take a ton of capital.
20:34I can tell you that right now.
20:35Yeah, absolutely.
20:37I'm out.
20:38Yeah.
20:39Yeah.
20:41Years ago, I decided that I should get into the tech space
20:44because I had a great idea
20:45for how to make the marketing company more efficient.
20:47I spent millions of dollars learning
20:49that I am not a tech entrepreneur
20:51and that I should have put that money into my core business,
20:54which was marketing instead.
20:55But you going into technology right now
20:57just feels like a cash burn to me.
20:59It scares me on your behalf,
21:01and I think you should really think about that.
21:03I'm going to be out.
21:06Yeah, I think on this show,
21:07sometimes you talk too much about valuation.
21:09I only look at valuation after there's innovation,
21:12and I just don't see the innovation here,
21:14so I'm out.
21:16Good luck.
21:17All right.
21:21Think, the business is a service-based, simple business,
21:24and they're trying to complicate it.
21:25And as much innovating as they're even trying to do,
21:28I don't know that any of that
21:29translates into value for the end consumer.
21:37In your business, you do not need distribution.
21:41You're going to need help marketing,
21:43and you are going to need help financing
21:45this massive amount of inventory,
21:47financing the distribution.
21:51Anything else?
21:52No.
21:54We think that this company can worth a billion dollars
21:58in the next five years because it's so unique.
22:01The sales we're doing is crazy.
22:03We're everywhere in the world already,
22:05so we just need to deal with someone
22:07that's going to see this vision
22:08and will help us to elevate us
22:11because we got it.
22:12We got it.
22:13We got it.
22:14We got it.
22:15We got it.
22:16We got it.
22:17We got it.
22:18We got it.
22:19We got it.
22:20We got it.
22:21We got it.
22:22Because we got it.
22:23Finally, we got it.
22:24So we need someone that believe that we got it too.
22:31Next up, a couple from Quebec City
22:33pops into the den with their take
22:35on a popular beverage.
22:39Hello, Dragon.
22:40My name is Jessica.
22:41And my name is Sebastian.
22:42We are here today from Quebec City
22:44seeking $1 million in exchange
22:47of 18% of our business, Boba.
22:52Dragon, you have probably heard about bubble tea.
22:55Yes.
22:56Has anyone else heard of bubble tea?
22:58Yes, I've heard of it.
22:59What is bubble tea?
23:00Who was drinking bubble tea this morning?
23:02I've never heard of this thing before.
23:04Yes, I'm talking about bubble tea.
23:05That trendy sugary drink you queue up for
23:08and you are never quite sure about its content.
23:11Those days are over with Boba.
23:13Hang on, hang on.
23:14I'm quite sure about its content,
23:16but continue.
23:18We have transformed this beloved beverage
23:20into a convenient and healthier
23:22ready-to-drink experience.
23:24Since day one, we are disturbing
23:26this $4 billion market
23:28with three simple ingredients,
23:29high-quality tea, fruit juice,
23:31and our famous boba, Boba.
23:33Last year, we just launched two crazy innovations,
23:36including the first alcoholic
23:37ready-to-drink bubble tea in the world.
23:40But how so?
23:41Our grab-and-go-popping Boba.
23:43So, Dragon, are you now ready to drink our product?
23:46Yes.
23:47Boba comes in various flavors
23:49like watermelon, dragon fruit, and peach.
23:52It retails for about $3.99 at major grocers
23:56in Canada, the U.S., and Europe.
23:58Can you get the popping Bobas, though?
24:00The Boba's popping.
24:02Raspberry and lime.
24:04Not bad.
24:05This is the popping Boba.
24:06We sell it in convenience stores
24:08to add to any drinks.
24:09This is my first time having bubble tea.
24:11You're missing out in life, man.
24:13I've never seen it like in this.
24:15People have tried to bottle it up.
24:17It's very difficult to maintain the flavor.
24:20Did you like this?
24:21I thought it was fine.
24:23But I, you know, I'm concerned about this idea
24:26of disrupting or disturbing bubble tea
24:29because it's something that's very near.
24:30Why? There can be new takes on things.
24:32Sure, but I'm looking at these two guys.
24:34Not everything has to be traditional.
24:36No, but then there's also an issue
24:37of cultural appropriation.
24:38There's an issue of taking something
24:40that's very distinctly Asian in its identity
24:43and quote-unquote making it better,
24:45which I have an issue with.
24:47But I want to hear the pitch
24:48before I formulate an opinion.
24:50Boy, that's one way to start.
24:52Yeah, that's one way to start.
24:54A little heavy there.
24:56But okay.
24:57But it's not an ethnical product anymore.
25:01Not with the popping Boba's.
25:02So we took the Asian version
25:05and we made it with fruit, with juice.
25:08The popping Boba is new.
25:09I can't say I've had that.
25:10It definitely is an experience
25:12when you're having it.
25:13And do you manufacture this yourself?
25:15No, so we have three partners,
25:17but they are exclusive partners.
25:19So they only make my bubble tea.
25:21Where?
25:22In Quebec.
25:23Hmm.
25:24What made you guys get into this business?
25:27I was like looking at the data about bubble tea
25:30and the popping Boba was just rising
25:33everywhere in the world.
25:34So I was like, I need to come out with something.
25:37It was a crazy success since day one.
25:40I'm really curious what your sales are today.
25:42So we just launched this company two years ago.
25:45The first real year we did $2.2 million.
25:48Yeah.
25:49With a profit of $300,000.
25:51Yeah.
25:52And this year, we just end the year in February,
25:54we did $4.6 million with a profit of $600,000.
26:00Wow.
26:01And we are on our way to do $7 million this year.
26:04Wow.
26:05And we expect to do $14 million the next year.
26:07That's impressive.
26:08What?
26:09The numbers never lie.
26:11Sebastian, is your biggest challenge money for inventory?
26:15Our challenge is trying to figure out
26:17how we can do $25 million really fast
26:20because we are the leader in the category right now.
26:23So then what is the million dollars for then?
26:26So it's going to be for listing fees in the U.S. basically.
26:28U.S., okay.
26:29Our boss are asking for $600,000 for 2,000 store.
26:33Hey, big risk, big reward.
26:35We just launched at Costco this year.
26:37Holy smokes.
26:39So you're building a brand, and this is,
26:41I'll see if I can articulate this, but the name Boba,
26:44the industry is Boba.
26:46Yes.
26:47Is it not?
26:48Is that a good thing being called Boba or a bad thing?
26:51Well, they added a B.
26:54Ah.
26:55So right now, we're rebranding,
26:57we're working with lawyer and everything,
26:59but at the end of the day,
27:00maybe we're going to need to add a little word after the Boba.
27:03Clearly, you're doing very well.
27:05What respect is being paid to this very Asian drink
27:09that has blown up around the world?
27:11And is it in your teas?
27:13Is it in your product development?
27:14Who is on your staff?
27:15Who is on your cap table that is?
27:18It's a good question,
27:19because our best partner is in Taiwan, actually.
27:24So they make all the recipe, all the Boba.
27:27We work really hard.
27:28We travel to Taiwan.
27:29We speak with them.
27:30They are part of our team.
27:32It's really important for us.
27:34So that's the best part.
27:36That's the cultural part of our product.
27:41And for the little popping Boba like that,
27:44we have a deal with Cush Star in Quebec.
27:46So we have 900 star with that,
27:48and they bought like 300,000 of this to put in the slush,
27:52and it's a crazy success.
27:54Oh, yeah. That's such a good idea.
27:56Guys, I just, like, we see so many consumer packaged goods products.
28:01This is, like, mega.
28:03I've never seen anything like it.
28:05I'm sure we can sell it to Pepsi for $1 billion in, like, five years.
28:09We are convinced of that.
28:13I can go first.
28:15I find the product a little too sweet for my own personal preference
28:18and for me to invest in something.
28:20I've got to love it and stand behind it,
28:22but at this stage, it's not for me, and I'm out.
28:28I am studying your can,
28:31and I am looking for anything that tells me where Boba came from,
28:37and where Boba came from is Taiwan.
28:40You know, I started this venture company for a lot of reasons,
28:44but really primarily to uplift minority entrepreneurs,
28:48and not only do I feel like this is not happening here,
28:51but that I would be uplifting a business
28:55that is profiting off of something that feels so dear to my cultural heritage.
29:02I want to be a part of bringing Boba to the masses,
29:06but not like this, so for that reason, I'm out.
29:09Thanks.
29:10Respect that.
29:11Respect that.
29:14I'm not sure I'm the right partner for you,
29:17so for that reason, I'm going to be out.
29:22I like it.
29:24I want to help you build the distribution out in the U.S.
29:27That does take money, for sure, and it takes a team,
29:31and that's what you really need to build here.
29:33I will offer you a million dollars for 20% of the business.
29:39I would offer you a million dollars for 18%.
29:42I think your valuation is incredibly fair.
29:44I have no issue with it.
29:45I believe I can help you.
29:48That's my offer.
29:50In your business, you do not need distribution.
29:54You're going to need help marketing,
29:56and you are going to need help financing this massive amount of inventory.
30:00Financing the distribution.
30:04Anything else?
30:05No.
30:07If you can do that, I genuinely believe there's a $100 million company in this space,
30:12but I do think we need to absolutely find someone that can really represent this brand,
30:16and I can help you find that person that stays very true to what the brand is.
30:23Does Earlene want a partner?
30:25If you want to co-invest together, I would do that with you.
30:28Yeah.
30:29We would do a million dollars for 18%.
30:32But together.
30:34Yes.
30:38I'll do a million dollars for 18% on my own.
30:41I bring a lot of value.
30:47I really respect all your offers.
30:52I think we will go with Manji because of the distribution with the alcoholic and everything.
30:57I'm very excited.
31:01Great product.
31:02Thank you so much.
31:03I believe in you from the moment one.
31:05Good luck.
31:06Thank you so much.
31:07Yeah.
31:09Thanks.
31:11It makes me sad how successful this business is.
31:13It makes me sad how successful this business is.
31:15It makes me sad that people are drinking boba with a raccoon.
31:19It doesn't mean that they don't have the opportunity to change and do that.
31:22That's true, but there has to be a willingness,
31:24and I have to be able to invest in these founders knowing that change is possible.
31:27They didn't say no.
31:28The collaboration that they've had to this point is with their supplier in Taiwan,
31:33and if nobody else has told them that before, you can't put that all on them.
31:41I'm a loser.
31:42I'm a loser.
31:43I lost 15 pounds.
31:44You're a loser.
31:45I'm an even bigger loser.
31:46I lost over 100 pounds.
31:47Wow.
31:48No way.
31:49But don't take our word for it.
31:50Meet some more amazing losers.
31:56Loser.
31:57Loser.
31:58Loser.
31:59We've got to do something about that name.
32:12Next, a couple from Toronto who are hoping to sell the dragons on the upside of sizing down.
32:20What's going on here?
32:21Hello, dragons.
32:22My name is Tony Ann.
32:23And my name is Gina Livy.
32:25And we're from Newmarket, Ontario.
32:26And we offer an online weight loss program called the Livy Method.
32:30And we're here today seeking a $250,000 investment for 3.5% of our profits.
32:35Oh, gosh.
32:36Wow.
32:37Man.
32:38Going to make us do some math.
32:39When it comes to diets, are we not just done with counting every single calorie?
32:44How about weighing all of your food or measuring absolutely everything?
32:51Come on, Tony.
32:52Go easy on me.
32:53Or how about losing your weight only to gain it all back every single time plus more?
32:58You're probably wondering, how does it work?
33:01The Livy Method is a 91-day systematic and guided program and process.
33:07How much does that cost?
33:08$75.
33:10Wow, that's really cheap.
33:11That's it?
33:12Yeah.
33:13No gimmicks, just healthy, nutrient-rich foods.
33:15You can follow along using our easy-to-use app and by also buying our number one book
33:22or by joining our support group and being part of our truly incredible community.
33:26We're on a mission to help millions of people become losers just like us.
33:30I'm a loser.
33:31I lost 15 pounds.
33:32You're a loser.
33:33I'm an even bigger loser.
33:34I lost over 100 pounds.
33:36Wow.
33:37No way.
33:38But don't take our word for it.
33:39Meet some more amazing losers.
33:41We've got to do something about that name.
33:43Yeah.
33:47Losers.
33:48Losers.
33:49Losers.
33:50Losers.
33:51These are six of over 135,000 members who've not just lost weight,
33:56they've decreased their medications, they're more in tune to their body's needs.
34:00It's way more than just weight loss.
34:02Congratulations.
34:03Yeah.
34:04It's very hard to lose weight.
34:06So Gina and Tony, there are so many diets out there.
34:10What made you think that you could create a better one and that people would follow yours?
34:14Well, I've been helping people lose weight for over 30 years.
34:17I was eating less, I was exercising a lot, and I couldn't lose weight.
34:22So that sent me on a mission to figure out why and what to do about it.
34:25So I started helping people one-on-one online,
34:28and I came up with an idea of a Facebook support group.
34:31And so overnight, I had 500 people sign up, and I had to figure it out.
34:37And now we're currently on our 21st program.
34:40And Tony, were you in the business already?
34:42No, I spent 20 years of my career in product development and operations,
34:46and I quit my very stable job at Amazon.
34:50His parents were not happy.
34:52My immigrant parents who came here from China,
34:54wanted me to go that traditional route, thought I was crazy.
34:58But I really believed in her mission.
35:00Why are you guys looking at me?
35:05Okay, so the $7 million question.
35:07What is the program?
35:09Okay, so every other diet is based on eat less, exercise more,
35:13counting, weighing, measuring your food.
35:16Okay.
35:17And with the Living Method, there's none of that.
35:19It's teaching people how to really be in tune to their body's needs
35:22so they know not only what to do to lose weight,
35:24but to also be able to maintain their weight.
35:26So it's a 91-day program, which is great.
35:29Okay, so in those 91 days, what do you do?
35:32Do you track my food? Do you tell me what not to eat?
35:34Tell me what I get for 91 days.
35:36Yeah, what's your secret sauce?
35:37So I will show up every single day and check in.
35:40Can I show you my app and show you how it works?
35:42Yes, of course.
35:43Yeah, for sure.
35:44Okay, so if you were on day 11 of the program,
35:46and this is a check-in video where I'm saying,
35:48Hi, Michelle, this is what we are talking about today.
35:51This is where you can track your fluid, your breakfast, your snack,
35:55your lunch, for example.
35:56I thought you said there was no measuring.
35:58No, there isn't.
35:59So you would just write down, I had vegetables, I had proteins,
36:01I had leafy greens, I had healthy fats.
36:03So we don't focus on things that you are having.
36:06We're about making as many choices as possible day to day
36:08that fall in line with your goals.
36:10Five years ago, I used to yo-yo up and down based on what I'd eat.
36:14That's right.
36:15I learned to eat smarter.
36:16Every single meal, I track in my phone and my notes.
36:19Yep.
36:20That keeps me accountable, but I'm not understanding what the app is.
36:23I'm not understanding what the program is.
36:25It's a systematic programming process.
36:27So what you eat and when changes and evolves as you go.
36:29And then we start being mindful.
36:31Before you eat, are you even hungry?
36:33While you're eating, are you starting to feel full?
36:36And then when you're done, how did you know you had enough?
36:38So this is the psychology of eating more than it is actually what you're eating.
36:42Yeah, there is a rhyme and a reason to what you're eating.
36:45Okay, back up there for a second.
36:46How do people know about you guys?
36:48Well, 95% referral.
36:50It's been all organic.
36:51Yeah.
36:52That is, like, so rare.
36:54What is it?
36:55Is there part of your program that you have to, like, sign up for a certain date?
36:58Or you have to refer a friend?
36:59Or is this, like, truly just, like, all organic?
37:02This is truly all organic.
37:03So we run three programs a year.
37:05In the fall, in the winter, and in the spring.
37:08Yeah.
37:09And it's really just people who were successful, who shared with friends and family.
37:13Okay, Gina, we could talk about whether this is good for you.
37:16And until we're blue in the face, are you making money?
37:19So since we incorporated in 2021, we have made $18 million lifetime.
37:24Lifetime.
37:25Lifetime.
37:26Okay, how about last year?
37:272021, 22, 23.
37:28So 2021, after six months, we made $1.1 million.
37:31Our first full fiscal year, we made $5 million.
37:35And last year, 2023, we made $6.1 million.
37:38And this year, we're on track to make $7.5 million.
37:41Whoa.
37:42So break that down for me.
37:43Is that all subscriptions?
37:44That's not all subscriptions.
37:45It's subscriptions, book sales, or can you make a pie chart for me?
37:48That's all 75 bucks at a time?
37:5075 bucks at a time.
37:51We don't have a subscription model.
37:52Wow.
37:53I have a Hollywood-sized question, which is that there is something making the rounds
37:56in the entertainment industry, and I'm sure you know what I'm going to ask about
37:59because it's the big elephant in the room.
38:02What do you think about Ozempic?
38:04It's not actually a threat to us at all.
38:06We lost this kind of like skincare, right?
38:08Somebody's going to go maybe for a facelift.
38:10Someone else is going to get Botox and shots.
38:13But the majority of people are just looking for quality skincare products.
38:16And how much did you invest in the business?
38:18Nothing.
38:19We have no debt.
38:20There's no other investors.
38:21No other investors.
38:22Do you keep running programs every month, or is it moving to an all-app model?
38:27Or what's the vision for how you take the $6 million and make it $20 million?
38:31Well, the app is how we're going to scale.
38:34The way you have it now with the referral is the unique part of it.
38:38But once you've doubled down on the app, then you become like your competitors.
38:42Well, the app will help us.
38:43Like, Noom right now has 45 million users a year,
38:46and you can only fit so many people into a Facebook support group.
38:49But when you just focus on the app, then you're getting into competition with the big boys and big girls.
38:55Yeah, I'm not afraid of that.
38:57Speak about where you see AI fitting in,
39:00because that, to me, is very critical in how a business like this grows.
39:04Yeah, so right now the AI interface we have is based off the GChat GPT model.
39:09We have a lot of data in our app right now that I think can help with creating algorithms
39:14and machine learning that can, based on what the users are inputting,
39:18give them personalized guidance based on their situation.
39:21So it becomes a lot more customized and personalized based on user input.
39:25So I think that's the future where we're going,
39:27and then I think that's going to really help members, because everyone's different.
39:31Yeah, got it, got it.
39:34Gina and Tony, listen.
39:36First of all, I love this, okay?
39:39And I cannot not invest in it.
39:43Okay?
39:44You haven't eaten in days.
39:45I know that.
39:46I know that.
39:47You can eat on our program, Wes.
39:48You can eat on our program.
39:49Why haven't I eaten?
39:50Because if I had a program like this, I wouldn't have to starve myself.
39:53Yes, that's right.
39:54Okay?
39:55So that's why it's beautiful, okay?
39:57Now, I've been talking to Simu telepathically.
40:01Okay.
40:04And he said, maybe, Wes, you and I should go in at $250,000 for 10%, 5% each.
40:10He'll market you in the U.S., and I'll do it in Canada.
40:14I have to do the market that's 10 times bigger than yours?
40:16He just sold you.
40:17You know, that's the kind of deal I do.
40:21Hold on.
40:27So, Michelle and I are going to go in on an offer for $250,000 for 5% and 5% also for 10%.
40:33Same deal.
40:34Same deal.
40:35Wow.
40:37I feel like I've tried every healthy eating, more gym, more diet, this and that over the years.
40:43There's so many fads that have been out there.
40:46The industry scares me.
40:47Yeah.
40:48I'm out.
40:49Okay.
40:51I need to address this telepathic conversation that Wes and I had.
40:54I appreciate him including me in this.
40:57I think that I am not the right person to help you get there, but I wish you the best of luck.
41:02I'm out.
41:03Okay.
41:05I'll give you $250,000 for 4%.
41:11And I want a $25,000 break fee if you don't close the deal.
41:16Oh, wow.
41:17That's fair.
41:18Oh, wow.
41:19No, that's fair.
41:20If we don't close the deal with you.
41:21Because I'm going to spend a lot of time and energy with my team doing due diligence.
41:24Sometimes people can come on the show just for the PR and I don't want to go down that road.
41:29That's my offer.
41:30Hold on.
41:31We'll revise our offer.
41:32My deal has no break fee.
41:33No break fee.
41:34By the way, my deal still is on the table.
41:35No break fee.
41:40Oh, boy.
41:41Okay, Michelle and I will revise our offer then.
41:43Yeah.
41:44Okay.
41:45We are going to offer you half a million dollars for 8% of the company.
41:49Oh, okay.
41:50So.
41:51We don't need money.
41:52We want it fast.
41:53I'm so impressed that you have done this.
41:54I just want to bet on that.
41:58$500,000 for 8%.
41:59Can we have a second?
42:00Yes.
42:01Okay.
42:02For sure you can.
42:05It's a no-brainer.
42:06It's a no-brainer.
42:07No-brainer, yeah.
42:08That's good.
42:09Okay.
42:17I can't tell you what a proud moment this is for us.
42:27We're going to take your deal.
42:28Yes!
42:33We're winners now.
42:34We're losers.
42:35All right.
42:36Well done.
42:38Congratulations, guys.
42:39I'm so excited.
42:40Congrats.
42:42Congrats, congrats.
42:43You guys have done a great job.
42:44Thank you, thank you.
42:45Well done.
42:51I will fight hard to close that.
42:53That was incredible.
42:54So, I guess two of the five of us are officially losers now, just so that we are clear.
42:58Manjeet, this is for you.
42:59You've done so many deals, you're going to need a wagon to wheel them home in.
43:03Take me home, James.
43:06Next time on Dragon's Den.
43:08Hello.
43:09Hello.
43:10Queen Arlene.
43:11Queen Arlene.
43:12I love this, man.
43:13Oh, yeah.
43:14I'll take two of them.
43:15We want to exceed $5 million, and year three, we want to exceed $15 million.
43:18Wow, that is a hockey stick projection.
43:21That's right.
43:22And I think that the market is there for it.
43:24There's some doors that you need to open.
43:26Click, click, click, open doors.
43:28You tell me what you want open, and I can open it for you.
43:33Whoa.
43:34We've got to get close.
43:35We're friends.
43:36Ready, dragons?
43:37Three, two, one.