October 10th is Taiwan’s National Day, a public holiday that celebrates the overthrow of China's Qing Dynasty. However, these deep connections to China have turned the day itself into a political battleground, embroiling even the celebration’s logo design.
On this episode of Zoom In Zoom Out, TaiwanPlus reporter Eric Tsai sits down with Hendrick Hsiao. Hendrick is the art director of Y&P Design International, a company that specializes in corporate branding, whose clients include fortune 500 companies. We first zoom in on this year’s KMT-led National Day visuals, then zoom out to discuss how Taiwan as a whole can improve its global branding.
On this episode of Zoom In Zoom Out, TaiwanPlus reporter Eric Tsai sits down with Hendrick Hsiao. Hendrick is the art director of Y&P Design International, a company that specializes in corporate branding, whose clients include fortune 500 companies. We first zoom in on this year’s KMT-led National Day visuals, then zoom out to discuss how Taiwan as a whole can improve its global branding.
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00:00Welcome to Zoom In Zoom Out, your global look at news from Taiwan.
00:16I'm Eric Tsai.
00:17October 10th is the National Day here in Taiwan.
00:20The holiday celebrates a historical uprising that led to the founding of Republic of China,
00:24Taiwan's official name.
00:26These connections to China underscores questions of national identity in Taiwan.
00:30And this year, the debate is being drawn out around the design of the National Day logo.
00:34Today, to further discuss the topics of identity and branding, we have Hendrik Xiao.
00:40Hendrik Xiao is the art director at YMP Design International.
00:43They're a company that specializes in corporate branding in Taiwan and around the world, whose
00:47clients include Fortune 500 companies.
00:50Hendrik, welcome to the show.
00:51Thank you for having me.
00:53It's a real honor.
00:54Let's first give the audience some context.
00:56You were also a major in politics back in school.
00:59How would you describe this holiday to other people?
01:02Yeah, I think it's important to get the context behind this holiday, right?
01:06So officially, it's the commemoration of when the Qing Dynasty was overthrown, the last
01:12emperor of China was overthrown, and China was established as a republic.
01:17So this is the name ROC that we constantly see, Republic of China.
01:22And then you fast forward a few years, China is thrown into a brutal civil war between
01:28the ROC and the Communist Party.
01:31And eventually, the ROC was forced to retreat to Taiwan, paving the way for the modern Taiwan
01:37ROC name that we get now, the communist state in China, forming the PROC.
01:44So then it begs the question, what does this holiday even mean to modern-day Taiwan and
01:48modern-day Taiwanese people?
01:50So recently, both the KMT and the DPP have used this holiday and the logos associated
01:56with it as a political background to throw jabs at each other and to push their own political
02:01agenda.
02:02So the one who is in charge of the visual designs and the double tent is actually the
02:06head of stature of the KMT.
02:09So take a look at this year's logo.
02:11What elements are there specifically that you're seeing that you can describe about?
02:14Yeah.
02:15So if you look at this year's logo, first of all, at first glance, it's very unassuming,
02:21not very impactful, seemingly kind of almost boring.
02:24But if you take a closer look at what, because the KMT has been in charge of the narrative,
02:30what they're trying to do, the symbolism they've been using.
02:33So very clearly this year, they lean heavily into the red, white, and blue colors, which
02:39is obviously the ROC flag colors.
02:42And then also more subtly is in the center of the logo is the national flower of the
02:47ROC.
02:48And so both of these, the flag and the flower have very strong ties to Dr. Sun Yat-sen,
02:53who was the founding father of KMT and the ROC.
02:57So they're really trying to have that symbolism return to logos, which when the DPP was in
03:03control of narrative, weren't clearly there.
03:07And I think what's also interesting is the tagline.
03:09If we take a look at the tagline, where in Chinese it says very clearly, happy birthday
03:14ROC, but in English, they omitted the ROC and just leave Taiwan in the message.
03:22So for me, this seems like they're trying almost to appease all the spectrums.
03:26The KMT has been losing a lot of votes recently, especially with the youth and et cetera.
03:30So with this, they can kind of, okay, we're kind of appeasing the pro-China spectrum,
03:36the status quo guys, and also the pro-Taiwan guys, because we have a little bit of everything
03:41in this message.
03:42Yeah.
03:43So we'll look at the logo designs.
03:44We're going through like Ma Ying-jeou, a KMT president, and then Taiwan.
03:48And then now with another KMT-led design, how has the designs changed over time?
03:53So I think it's very clear that when Ma was president of the KMT, and even before that,
04:01these political imagery and logos associated with them, whether it's the campaign or with
04:06the National Day logo, they were just what you thought government logos would be.
04:11Like for the National Day logo, it's kind of maybe a little bit celebrative, a little
04:15bit patriotic, et cetera, et cetera.
04:18But when the DPP came into control of the National Day logo, I think they really took
04:24that opportunity to really use that platform to push, to use like a creative and design
04:30thinking platform to push their agenda creatively.
04:34Because there's no other opportunity for them to do so.
04:36And they can use something to really present to the outside world, it's like, this is what
04:41kind of Taiwan should be about.
04:42Now it's a very Taiwan-centric image, much more colorful, a lot of lines about unity
04:47and moving forward.
04:49But at the same time, there's an overarching green color that's being shown through all
04:54the logos, right?
04:56So it's very clear that they were using color to kind of also, you know, they were in charge
05:00of the narrative so they could portray these more green shades representing them.
05:04And they're pushing a very Taiwan-centric image, right?
05:08So I think pushing back to 2016, the first thing they did in the tagline was they dropped
05:13the ROC.
05:14And then they added Taiwan over the years.
05:17And then they finally said Taiwan National Day.
05:19And that's what kind of upset the KMT.
05:22And so I think this year, the KMT has caught on.
05:26And so they're starting to play with it too, but with their own spin on it.
05:30Back to what I was saying before, where they still have a lot of ROC symbolism and ROC
05:37elements embedded in the logo.
05:40This year's logo has caused a lot of uproar, talking about and discussing whether it makes
05:45sense or doesn't make sense and stuff like that.
05:47So does that cause a disconnect between the higher-ups deciding how it looks versus how
05:52the people feel?
05:54Yeah.
05:56Definitely, with government-related projects, there's going to be a disconnect.
06:01I think there's been a disconnect for a while between what the KMT wants and what the general
06:09populace wants.
06:10So that's why the DPP has been in control for eight years.
06:13That's why Tsai Ing-wen was president for eight years, and now Lai Yi-je is president.
06:18So there's definitely a disconnect there.
06:20And I think they're struggling to find their own identity, the KMT, to try to resonate
06:25more with the younger vote and the younger generation.
06:29So I think also this ties into the new party, the TPP, which has been able to capture the
06:35youth vote.
06:36This is the past couple of years when the DPP was in charge, when they commissioned
06:41these logos out to be designed, the designers almost always come out with a whole document
06:47describing why they designed the things that they did.
06:50But this time, the designer requested anonymity, requested to have their name removed from
06:55it.
06:56Is that a common practice in design?
06:58So for me, this is actually very interesting, too, because normally when you take on a government
07:03project, it's all about the exposure, right?
07:06As a designer, you want to build up your portfolio as much as possible.
07:10So the amount of free exposure you get if you landed the logo, it will be enormous from
07:17social media to traditional media.
07:18Everyone's going to come and want to interview, like, oh, what was the creative process?
07:22Why did you do this, et cetera, et cetera.
07:24But the fact that the designers this year want to remain anonymous is very peculiar
07:29to me.
07:30It's like, why would you not want that free exposure, right?
07:32It's almost as if a lot of the logo was done in community through a lot of deliberation
07:38between the government and the designers.
07:40And I would guess even maybe a falling out happened.
07:43So they said, this is not the creative direction that I really want to go with.
07:47So I think that ties into this point of what I really want to say is how the current international
07:53political turmoil really affects the average day Taiwanese citizen.
07:57From everything from an ordinary National Day logo to how the Taiwanese identify themselves.
08:04Even the government, like, are we Taiwan ROC?
08:07Are we ROC?
08:08Are we Taiwan?
08:09Even the government doesn't know, right?
08:10They're using this national holiday and the logo to try to push different agendas.
08:15So in the end, it's like, it's very hard for the Taiwanese to really have a strong
08:21identity.
08:22And I think a lot of the Western narrative has been pushing, you know, the old boys down
08:26to, oh, China bad, free Taiwan.
08:28But it's not that simple, right?
08:32Our histories are so intertwined together.
08:35And it's so nuanced that it's going to take a lot of work and, you know, even pain to
08:40untangle that.
08:44So Hendrik, let's zoom out and take a look at the design industry and Taiwan's aesthetics.
08:49When you are given a project within Taiwan to do a logo design or whatnot, what was your
08:54approach to it?
08:55Well, so we did do the logo for Taiwan tourism.
08:58Okay.
08:59Yeah.
09:00How did you go about that?
09:01That's actually a pretty interesting story because, first of all, you know, it also went
09:06through committee and a lot of it's like, everyone's like, oh, what defines Taiwan,
09:10right?
09:11Like butterflies or, you know, the one-on-one or like Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall, et cetera.
09:17But these are all just, you know, physical landmarks.
09:21They don't really define Taiwan.
09:22So what we really found to really define Taiwan, first of all, is just the name Taiwan.
09:27I think just getting the name out there, Taiwan is very important.
09:30So the logo is using calligraphy to write out Taiwan.
09:35And what also really defines Taiwan is the people, the Taiwanese people.
09:40Like their Taiwanese spirit, the friendliness, the openness, and just, you know, all of our
09:47identities and struggles and cultures.
09:49That's what really defines Taiwan.
09:51So if you look at the Taiwanese logo that we created for the tourism board back then
09:54is inside the calligraphy for Taiwan, we created a cute little story of a Taiwanese person
10:00welcoming a guest to his home, and then they're drinking tea together.
10:05And at night, they discuss Taiwanese stories and cultures and folklore.
10:09So having done a lot of designs here in Taiwan, you know, what is Taiwan's design language?
10:14What is Taiwan's aesthetics?
10:16I think it's important to kind of see that, to understand that Taiwan is like a huge melting
10:21pot of different cultures.
10:23So this goes back to what I was talking about, like the identity issue, right?
10:27Because the Taiwanese, I think our identity is so hard to pinpoint.
10:30We borrow and we use a lot of cultures around us that we find influential, fun, and interesting.
10:36So our Japanese neighbors, our Korean neighbors, a lot of American culture.
10:40And it creates this melting pot of Taiwanese aesthetic that they then use and blend and
10:46turn into their own personal aesthetic.
10:49And that's what has been like this defining creation that the Taiwanese have been going
10:53through these past years.
10:55A lot of US brands are starting to go through this minimizing, you know, reducing number
11:01of colors, sharper lines, less shading, stuff like that.
11:06Is there a similar thing that's happening within Taiwan from your observation?
11:09So for the US brands, they have this huge marketing engine behind it, like money to
11:15support and really push the brand.
11:18So they can afford to be, you know, very minimalistic because they know they have a lot of marketing
11:23and PR behind it to shape, evolve, and create the story to tell to the consumer.
11:28They can almost, you know, I like to use the term brand washed, right?
11:32They can just constantly bombard the consumer with the image that they want.
11:37But Taiwan, a lot of these companies don't have the budget or do they even want to spend
11:43the amount of money?
11:44Like I like to take the comparison between TSMC and Intel, right?
11:48They're both business to business companies and they're both juggernauts in their respective
11:52industries.
11:53But Intel spent a huge amount of money marketing and pushing Intel.
11:57So we're now every consumer knows like Intel, right?
12:00Intel inside, Intel inside.
12:01But no one knew about TSMC, Intel now.
12:05And they're only getting coverage because of all like the political turmoil surrounding
12:09Taiwan now.
12:10And it's not like they spent money on the marketing.
12:11It's free marketing, right?
12:12It's free exposure.
12:14So the difference is that for our Taiwanese clients, I think we need the logo to be impactful
12:19right from the start.
12:20It needs to immediately tell a story and needs to cut through the rest of the competitors,
12:25the rest of the noise.
12:26So sometimes you can't afford to be very minimalistic.
12:29You have to almost weird or crazy logo or something.
12:32It needs to be immediately memorable.
12:34Like if you've ever seen an overview of Taiwan, it's just a bunch of signage.
12:39Because Taiwan, you know, it's a small, Taipei especially, it's a small amount of land with
12:44a lot of people, a lot of companies, a lot of everything.
12:47So it's just a lot of signage.
12:49So how do you cut through all those signage, all those colors, everything, right?
12:54So to bring the tourism to Taiwan, what kind of branding should Taiwan be projecting?
13:00Yeah.
13:01So one thing I think we've done a really good job is with our food, right?
13:04So you look at any country like, and we did this recently with a local brand and trying
13:09to push some of our food culture to the Western world.
13:13You look at the Japanese with ramen or the Koreans or even the Vietnamese with pho, like
13:19food is what ties everyone together.
13:21So recently I think we've been doing a really good job of bringing a lot of food tourism
13:26to Taiwan.
13:27And I think Taiwanese food is top tier in the world for sure.
13:31So that is something that we can really push.
13:33Like stuff like this, how beautiful Taiwan is, you know, the country itself and the people,
13:38how beautiful the people are.
13:40I think these are all like how friendly, how safe it is, how convenient it is.
13:44These are all things that would definitely attract tourists to Taiwan.
13:49So I mean, Taiwan is a very young island country, right?
13:53But so it doesn't have a lot of the history between, you know, the Europeans have or even
13:58the Japanese have.
13:59But what we do have is a lot of the young energy and what made us, makes us Taiwan in
14:04the first place, our food, our people, our beautiful island, stuff like that.
14:09And that's, I think a lot of people have, it's resonated with a lot of people and it's
14:13bringing a lot of tourists.
14:14Hendrik, thanks for joining us today.
14:16It was great to hear your insight on design, logo and all that as well too.
14:19Yeah.
14:20Thanks for having me.
14:21It's a rare opportunity to be able to talk about two of my great passions, politics and
14:25design.
14:26This has been Zoom In Zoom Out.
14:27For more stories from Taiwan and around the world, check out Taiwan Plus News on our social
14:31media platforms.
14:32Thank you for joining us.
14:46Bye-bye.
14:47Bye-bye.