panorama.2019.02.04.brexit-whos.in.charge.proper

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panorama.2019.02.04.brexit-whos.in.charge.proper
Transcript
00:00Back in 2016, Britain began going round in circles.
00:09We're taking back control.
00:12The referendum result was clear enough.
00:15The British people have spoken and the answer is we're out.
00:19If only it were that simple.
00:2153 days until we leave and we know clearer how it's going to happen.
00:26The ayes to the right, 202.
00:30The noes to the left, 432.
00:37The government and the opposition promise to deliver Brexit,
00:41so far without conspicuous success.
00:44It is clear that the House does not support this deal,
00:47but tonight's vote tells us nothing about what it does support.
00:53It's embarrassing to be part of a system which is so, frankly, messed up.
00:58I've been away from Westminster hearing what voters make of it all.
01:03You're happy with a no deal? I'm up with a no deal.
01:06So the real problem has to be addressed and it's not the EU.
01:09I've been shadowing backbenchers and eavesdropping on Parliament's plotters.
01:14Neither side, Labour or Conservatives, is talking about the national interest.
01:18They have to make decisions, that's what we were elected to do.
01:21Global Brexit, getting the country ready, WTO terms.
01:24Everyone's calling for compromise without much wanting to compromise themselves.
01:41Good evening, it's question time.
01:43We're taking your calls on the topics raised on the programme.
01:47There'll be a fair bit of Brexit, I'd have thought.
01:51Three weeks ago, Britain sank deeper into limbo
01:54when MPs voted down the government's Brexit deal.
01:58Parliament can't agree on anything.
02:00I think that we just really need to leave on the 29th of March.
02:04They're in headless chicken mode.
02:06How on earth do they think they're going to get any sort of consensus out of this?
02:11The ayes to the right, 202.
02:16The noes, order!
02:19There were cries for a new plan, any plan, to get us through.
02:24I've actually got to the point where I'm past caring what the deal is we have.
02:29I will vote for it, to get a smooth exit.
02:33The government look to have lost control of the Brexit process.
02:37There can be no doubt that this is indeed a zombie government.
02:42We had that same arrogance, unwillingness to listen,
02:46which has brought us to this position.
02:50MPs were too busy squabbling amongst themselves for anything but chaos to reign.
02:55The House must behave with decorum.
03:02While their leaders trade political punches,
03:05their backbenchers have to go back to their constituencies
03:09and explain to the baffled and angry people who voted them in
03:13what on earth is going on.
03:15Why haven't politicians got it sorted?
03:18I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
03:22East Yorkshire in January, chilly outside,
03:25but somewhat heated on the Brexit front.
03:28The Tory MP for Brig and Gould is a committed leaver.
03:34Welcome.
03:36Unlike many Brexiteers, Andrew Percy did vote for Theresa May's deal.
03:42Just how MPs dress at the weekend, I like your style.
03:45Thank you, I copied you.
03:49Like all MPs, he's having to explain his stance to his constituents.
03:54His challenge is to convince the hardcore leavers amongst them
03:58that May's deal is a proper Brexit.
04:03You're an absolute Union Jack Underpants type leaver.
04:07What are you more fearful of, Remain or No Deal?
04:11I think when people talk about No Deal, it's not the outcome I want
04:14because I do think we should leave on a negotiated basis.
04:17But the option that is absolutely unacceptable to me
04:21and to most of my constituents is Remain,
04:24because that's not what we voted for.
04:26But he's no wiser than the rest of us
04:28as to who's going to get us out of this hole.
04:31I don't think it's clear at the moment who's in charge.
04:34There are ministers saying things
04:36which are diametrically opposed to one another,
04:38and I'm afraid lots of them, leavers and Remainers,
04:41I think are behaving fairly childishly at the moment.
04:45It's embarrassing to be part of a system at the moment
04:48which is so, frankly, messed up.
04:55A messed up system means a lack of clarity,
04:58and that's the one thing businesses can't bear.
05:01Uncertainty.
05:04Thanks for that.
05:08Not least, farmers, who urgently want it all sorted.
05:13But you don't get them pregnant?
05:15No, the bull does that.
05:21Ian Backhouse is the latest in a long line of farmers in his family.
05:26He voted to leave the EU.
05:30You could argue that a lot of farmers voted for Brexit,
05:33and voting for Brexit was like a bit for them,
05:36turkeys voting for Christmas,
05:38because there's no guarantee that the UK government post-Brexit
05:41will replace the subsidy we receive.
05:44How much must you dislike the European Union,
05:46even though you might be one of the turkeys voting for Christmas
05:49on this as a farmer?
05:51It's not a dislike of the EU,
05:53it's what opportunities can we get outside the European Union,
05:56when we get control back for ourselves.
06:00So Ian wants to leave with a deal agreed as soon as possible.
06:04His real beef is with those he believes won't let go
06:08of the dream of remaining.
06:12I mean, you're a mild-mannered farmer,
06:14but, you know, who do you get angry with?
06:16Westminster.
06:17Yeah, but you can't have Westminster, what, all politicians?
06:19So you're annoyed with all of them?
06:21All of them.
06:22We can't allow these individual politicised groups
06:25to wreck the country.
06:27The country made a decision,
06:29and then the reason we are where we are today
06:32is because every step of the way,
06:34people who weren't happy with the decision
06:37started to frustrate, tried to frustrate the process.
06:41Here in Gaul, 66% voted to leave.
06:47We've corralled a few locals together
06:49to hear what they make of Parliament's handling of Brexit.
06:53And to show of hands, who voted leave?
06:57And who would vote for no deal?
07:01So, literally, a vote for no deal,
07:03and a vote for no deal,
07:05and a vote for no deal,
07:07and a vote for no deal.
07:10So, literally, a proper rock-hard northerner's new lot, aren't you?
07:15Who do you blame for this not working?
07:19For this situation,
07:21mostly the blame lies with the Conservative traitors
07:26who don't want to abide by the results.
07:29I want to be out of the Customs Union.
07:31I want to be... I don't want to be ruled by the ECJ.
07:35There's somebody else telling us that we can't make deals.
07:38Who are these people? I didn't vote for them.
07:47Excuse me, may I have a word with you?
07:49Who's in charge here?
07:51Is it Parliament? Is it the government?
07:53I would definitely say that the EU is in a position of power here.
07:57Well, there is 27 of them. Yeah, exactly.
08:00Nobody's in charge, actually.
08:02We've got very hard lines on either side.
08:11The hardest of those lines right now
08:14are around the so-called Irish backstop.
08:17That's the indefinite legal guarantee
08:20that there should be no hard border
08:22between Northern Ireland and the Republic.
08:27Brexiteers fear the backstop could effectively keep us
08:30out of the Customs Union with the EU forever.
08:34They won't sign up to a deal unless it's changed.
08:38And if nothing's agreed by 29 March, we will leave without a deal.
08:50I'm heading down to the bottom right-hand corner of the country
08:53and the other side of the Brexit fault line.
08:56Freeze it.
08:58In 2017, the voters of Canterbury and Whitstable
09:01elected their first ever Labour MP.
09:04Are you the future Prime Minister?
09:06No, thank God.
09:08Many credit the victory to the fact that Rosie Duffield
09:12stood as a proud Remainer.
09:17So, how many on your patch?
09:20Oh, I think it's around about 85,000.
09:23How did they vote in the referendum?
09:25I think, officially, in the constituency, it's about 56 Remain.
09:31Rosie takes me to a firm that makes spare parts for boats,
09:34Barton Marine.
09:41They're convinced, even with a deal,
09:43that Brexit will damage their business.
09:49This is our piece parts store.
09:51So what we do here, all the parts that we manufacture,
09:54they work their way this way.
09:56Joyce takes them, we put them in boxes,
09:58and then we are able to pick parts for individual orders
10:01and they go into assembly.
10:03So all this stuff here, you make all this stuff
10:06and then you sell it to people around the world.
10:08How much of it goes to elsewhere in Europe?
10:1265% of our production goes to Europe.
10:16From my point of view, leaving Europe
10:18isn't about losing an export market,
10:20it's about losing our home market.
10:22Sending stuff to Germany, France, Greece,
10:26is just the same as sending stuff around the UK.
10:29This is a unique business in my part of the world
10:32and I cannot vote for a deal
10:34that's going to put her out of business or move this business away.
10:37I don't want Suzanne to leave.
10:41And I don't believe the boss is bluffing
10:43when she says Barton Marine may have to up sticks
10:47if we leave without a deal.
10:50I think the disgraceful part of this whole Brexit scenario is
10:56in order for Barton to survive,
10:58we will have to incorporate in Europe
11:01and set up a facility in Europe.
11:03There's just no other way for us to do it.
11:05And it's disgraceful that I have to take wealth and jobs
11:09and move them abroad instead of keeping them here
11:12in Kent and in the UK.
11:14And that's the shame of this.
11:20I rounded off my day in Rosie's constituency
11:23in a pub in Canterbury
11:25with some of the 55% around here who voted Remain.
11:31OK, well, welcome to this meeting of the Remainer Revolutionary Front
11:36here in Kent.
11:38What are you all about? Just give us a general flavour.
11:42We all want to remain in the EU
11:44and that's that we have the best deal as part of the EU as we are now
11:48and that's what we're all fighting for, I think.
11:50And our future, globally, has got to be about working together,
11:55about solidarity with other people over all the issues which we face.
12:00They are not going to be resolved by people looking inwards
12:04and saying, make Britain great again.
12:07So echoing the Trump line...
12:11You lot all want a referendum, presumably?
12:14Or you just want to remain even without a referendum?
12:18Sorry, how are you going to have Remain without another referendum?
12:21I mean, if they vote twice to leave, then I think one accepts it.
12:24But it's a totally different clientele now.
12:26There should be a lot more students on the books.
12:29Quite a lot of the people who voted Leave have died and so...
12:32And also, two and a half years have gone by.
12:36People's vote! People's vote!
12:39The second referendum lot have rallied noisily
12:42under the banner of a people's vote.
12:45Hello, London!
12:47But it's not clear if the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn,
12:50is going to back the idea.
12:53Labour's official policy is to push for a different Brexit deal.
13:02No deal must be taken off the table,
13:05a permanent customs union must be secured
13:08and people's rights and protections must be guaranteed
13:12so they do not fall behind.
13:15But Rose is under pressure from her constituents to go further.
13:20Overwhelmingly, I get stop Brexit emails,
13:24or, you know, let's stay in or let's have a people's vote.
13:27So they're banging a drum, you've banged a fair bit,
13:30but you can't sort of bang it back, so to speak, now,
13:33because of your party's position?
13:35Well, no, we're moving, I think.
13:37I hope we're moving towards a people's vote,
13:39but we're definitely keeping that option on the table.
13:42The people's vote, tell me how it can possibly end well
13:46if that ends up remain.
13:48I mean, there's going to be so many people are going to feel shafted
13:53for want of a more parliamentary vote.
13:55I get that argument,
13:56and I don't think it's going to go perfectly well either way.
13:59People are really angry,
14:01but I think we need to understand why people are angry.
14:04They're angry because of some of the things that happen in this country
14:08and politicians in Britain's fault, like austerity.
14:11They're not really angry at the EU, I think.
14:16The people's vote campaign is led by a cross-party group of Remainers.
14:22I think the thing that strikes me in all of this
14:25is that neither side, Labour or Conservatives,
14:28is talking about the national interest.
14:30It's all about the party reunification.
14:32I couldn't believe it this morning.
14:35So for the Conservatives, it's all about keeping the party together,
14:39not doing the right thing for the country.
14:41And from the Labour side, it's all about Jeremy Corbyn
14:44not being called out to do what he promised to do,
14:46which is to put forward a proper amendment supporting the people's vote.
14:49Because in all of this, he's off the hook again.
14:54These Tory and Labour rebels are annoyed
14:57Jeremy Corbyn hasn't declared his hand on a second referendum.
15:02We have to make decisions. Absolutely.
15:04We have to make decisions, that's what we were elected to do,
15:07and too many people want to obfuscate and avoid making the decisions,
15:10which I think is totally outrageous.
15:14Outside Parliament, protesters of all stripes are in full voice.
15:20Come on, you've got to keep your banner tight.
15:22It's no good you let it flop.
15:24A flaccid banner's not going to convince anybody.
15:27Just helping them with the banner.
15:29I'd help you too.
15:31Inside, in nooks and crannies and tiny offices,
15:35some MPs are setting aside party differences
15:38in an effort to thrash out solutions to the Brexit gridlock.
15:43I'm in a House of Commons office,
15:45waiting to meet a couple of MPs, one from each party, both Remainers,
15:50and they're pushing like mad for this Common Market 2.0, so-called,
15:55or Norway Plus Plus, if you want to call it that.
15:58So the ultra super soft marshmallow Brexit, if you like.
16:06Their compromise solution to take Britain out of the EU
16:09would keep us in a close economic relationship with Europe.
16:14So how did this heartwarming relationship begin?
16:16Who was making eyes at who across the floor?
16:19Well, Rob is the chair of the committee that I sit on.
16:23The Education Committee.
16:24Oh, so you're making eyes there, then?
16:27Metaphorically, I mean.
16:28Yeah, well, I think both of our...
16:30My husband and Rob's wife, there was a sort of period over Christmas
16:33when we were writing this pamphlet where we probably spoke to each other
16:36more than we spoke to our husbands and wives.
16:38But actually, she persuaded me outside a corridor,
16:41just after we had a committee, to do this pamphlet.
16:44It was literally like a eureka moment for me.
16:46I started to think, why on earth aren't we doing this?
16:49Why on earth was this not plan A, let alone plan B?
16:52But it doesn't solve the free movement of people, does it?
16:55So what do you do about that?
16:56You're never going to get everything in every deal.
16:59But I think this squares the circle.
17:04In another office, the Scottish National Party are hard at it,
17:08devising a plan to try to delay Brexit and avoid a no deal.
17:13So, I mean, the contents of the Labour amendment are not ideal.
17:16They're not... No. It's not carried.
17:18He said he'll move to the SNP amendment. Right, OK.
17:21At that point, we need to make sure all of our people are in the right place.
17:24We've got them all at the right time.
17:26All 35 are on the estate. Everybody's on the estate.
17:31I mean, it helps that we've got quite a clear position.
17:34You know, Scotland voted to remain.
17:36My constituency voted pretty overwhelmingly to remain.
17:40Pretty much every Scottish counting area voted to remain.
17:44So we're in a slightly different situation
17:46in terms of being very, very clear on what we need to do.
17:50We know that we want to remain in the EU
17:52and we want to try and salvage as much of our relationship
17:55with the rest of Europe.
17:58But what of the Conservatives? Can they unite behind a deal?
18:03A lot depends on this man and his group of hardcore Brexiteers
18:07known as the European Research Group, or ERG.
18:11I would like the Prime Minister to deliver
18:14and you may think that's naive,
18:16but I am going to cling to that hope until it's proved to be the law.
18:21The ERG want Theresa May to go back to the EU
18:24and demand the Irish backstop be renegotiated.
18:28If she doesn't get anywhere with that,
18:30they're prepared to leave without a deal.
18:35Our Gaul MP is in a group of Tory leavers and former Remainers
18:39working together to try to save the PM's deal.
18:44This idea that we can reach out across party lines to solve this
18:49is going nowhere.
18:50And if you think you're going to get more than a dozen,
18:52two dozen Labour MPs on side, it ain't happening.
18:55So the only way you solve this is within the Conservative Party.
19:00They're discussing what can be done with the backstop
19:03to win the Rees-Mogg types round.
19:06If Parliament is eventually able to find something around
19:09which we can all agree that might be the current deal,
19:12plus some significant and binding conditions around the backstop,
19:17even though we might pass that in the knowledge that Brussels would reject it,
19:21at least in a sense it passes the focus of attention back.
19:25So this is, in the end, it's about politics.
19:31Another big night in the Commons.
19:33I've seen a lot of backbench groups devising their own Brexit plans.
19:37Tonight, MPs are getting a chance to vote on some of them.
19:41Division! Clear the lobby!
19:44Most fail.
19:46But in a surprise move,
19:48the PM herself has supported a backbench proposal
19:52to try to renegotiate the backstop.
19:54Order!
19:56Brussels won't like it,
19:58but he could keep the Conservative Party together and May's deal alive.
20:02The ayes to the right, 317.
20:06The noes to the left, 301.
20:10It passes.
20:13It's quite a big moment, potentially a big moment.
20:16These things can always unwind.
20:18On a point of order, the point of order of the Prime Minister.
20:24If she can sort out this backstop issue,
20:26either through renegotiating that or some other alternative arrangement,
20:29then we might just get a deal through.
20:31But the important thing is the House has shown there's a majority
20:34for something to deliver Brexit tonight, and that's really key.
20:37I'm less embarrassed by the House of Commons tonight
20:40than I was for the last month or two.
20:44Almost immediately, the EU rather took the shine off things,
20:48restating its position that it won't budge on the backstop.
20:58A couple of days after the vote, I'm in Fairham in Hampshire
21:02to meet their Brexiteer MP, Suella Braverman.
21:06I want to tell you tonight that I am cautiously optimistic
21:10about where we are in the Brexit process.
21:13She's invited me to a meeting with her constituents,
21:1755% of whom voted to leave.
21:20Who feels that they knew what they were voting for when they came?
21:24When we voted in the 1970s, we voted to join a common market.
21:30We did not vote for political union.
21:34APPLAUSE
21:38My clear preference is for a good deal to be struck at the EU.
21:42She doesn't come back with a deal.
21:44I do believe there is another way through,
21:47and that is so-called no deal, or a managed no deal,
21:51or a stripped-down withdrawal agreement.
21:54MUSIC
21:59Hard Brexiteers round here believe businesses would cope
22:03with a no deal Brexit and quickly bounce back from any disruption.
22:08Most business leaders and economists disagree.
22:13One of those at the meeting was a local factory owner, Tony Barnett.
22:18His company makes parts for aircraft engines and submarines.
22:22He exports a lot, mostly to America, Africa and the Middle East.
22:27You get the trade part, but there's such a thing as sovereignty.
22:31And the sovereignty question, which is why I voted leave, is a big issue.
22:36I take your point on sovereignty,
22:38but business-wise, it's not going to be a benefit to you.
22:42If anything, you might lose something from it.
22:44Is that just a price worth paying?
22:46Yes. We can paddle our own canoe.
22:49We've had 900 years of paddling our own canoe.
22:52And we can do that again.
22:54But there will be bumps in the road.
23:00Fairhams MP Suella Braverman and her ERG colleagues
23:03are pushing the PM hard to replace the backstop.
23:08But what makes her think the EU will now completely change tack?
23:14It seems to me who's actually in charge is the EU.
23:16The EU decides what they're going to let us have in terms of Brexit.
23:19That is the reality. We're beholden to them.
23:22That's the awful truth, isn't it?
23:24I disagree completely. I don't see it in those terms.
23:26It's the case so far. They say, no, no, no, that's that.
23:29They're bigger. There's 27 of them. There's one of us.
23:32In a fight, I wouldn't take on 27 people.
23:34That's such a defeatist view of our country.
23:36It's realistic. It's realistic. They're bigger.
23:39Where's your pride and ambition for our nation?
23:41I've got pride, but I'm not daft. I can't fight the whole lot.
23:44I'm behind you, if you like, but there's a lot of them.
23:46We are a valued partner.
23:48We're not some fledgling democracy
23:50with a fragile economy on the brink of collapse.
23:52What you're talking about is exactly why
23:54we mustn't take no deal off the table.
23:56As long as we can walk away from these negotiations
23:59and say, thank you, EU, but no thanks, we're off,
24:02and we don't need your deal,
24:04and we're going to thrive without your rubbish deal, the better.
24:09One thing I keep hearing going round the country and on phone
24:12and everything is that they want politicians to get on with it,
24:16to drop their party differences,
24:18to break their red lines and just compromise.
24:21You've got to compromise somewhere, aren't you?
24:23Well, I believe I have compromised.
24:25There are many aspects of this deal that I have accepted,
24:28but there comes a point when compromise tips a balance
24:31and becomes total surrender, and the terms of the final deal,
24:34in particular the backstop, represented that for me.
24:38Over the past two weeks, I've met MPs willing to compromise,
24:42but compromise doesn't really thrive in our party political system.
24:46I've invited two of my new MP friends round for a Brexit-themed lunch.
24:51Two backbenchers struggling to reconcile their own views,
24:55their constituents' views and their party's policies.
24:58Hello. Good afternoon. Thank you very much.
25:00I think we're unhooked in terms of our work.
25:02Nice to see you. You all right? Come on in.
25:04Come on in, come on in.
25:06I've got a Tory here, I'm afraid. Are you all right with that?
25:09I am. He's a Conservative. Hello.
25:11How are you doing?
25:13I've seen you across the chamber, but we've never really spoken.
25:17Come and take your seats. I know your time is busy.
25:19Do we have to sit on the left or the right?
25:21OK, well, you'll be sitting on the right.
25:23You go in here. Hang on a sec.
25:25Now, this is my red line here. OK.
25:27You see what we've done there? Brilliant.
25:29It's a bit orange. OK.
25:31That looks a bit sinister, that layout there.
25:33How many red lines have you got?
25:35I'd like a different set of six red lines.
25:38All right. They're a bit wobbly, yeah.
25:40They can be all over the shop. Yeah, that's...
25:42OK, there you go. There we are.
25:44So what we've got here is Irish stew.
25:46Oh, my gosh, wow. With a twist. Look at that.
25:49Is it with or without a backstop?
25:51Surely they understand many of us have had it with MPs' bickering.
25:55What do you think about the stock of politicians now?
25:58Has it fallen? Not your good selves, but, I mean, generally.
26:01I don't understand if it has. Yeah.
26:03Because we are supposed to be kind of guiding people
26:06and leading them through on this.
26:07Well, we're supposed to be delivering Brexit.
26:09That's what they've voted for.
26:10Yeah, well, it's the blind leading the blind,
26:12cos we don't know where this is going.
26:14Do you know what the funny thing about this is?
26:16It's the... You know, if you think about it as an issue,
26:19it's an issue that has probably meant more constituents
26:22engaging with their politician than on any other issue.
26:27That's a good point.
26:28At the time when I put stuff on Facebook, I'm really surprised,
26:31happily surprised, the number of people who say,
26:33I was glued to the... Even though I'm sick of it,
26:35I was glued to the TV today in the debate.
26:38If you drive past a car accident, you can't help watching, can you?
26:41Maybe it's just a bit like watching a tragedy, yeah.
26:43Maybe it is like that.
26:44OK, just eat, cos then I'll go and get the...
26:46I'm going to get these sprouts.
26:48This is another gag, all right?
26:50This is eaten mess.
26:52Excellent, thank you.
26:55And with dessert, I'm dishing up some new research.
26:58We've commissioned an opinion poll asking people
27:01about the trust they have in MPs when it comes to Brexit.
27:06OK, what percentage figure do you think
27:10said they have little or no trust at all in their MPs?
27:14I reckon two-thirds of people probably say they have no faith.
27:17That sounds probably realistic.
27:19It is 85% of the people.
27:22Interestingly, ask the same question about the EU.
27:25Do you have little or no trust at all in the EU?
27:27Only 75%.
27:29So people are more distrustful of MPs than the EU.
27:32So are we being told to leave, then?
27:34I don't know. I mean, it's not great for either of us.
27:37No, that's really upsetting.
27:43MPs surely only have themselves to blame for this loss of trust.
27:47After letting the public make the big decision on Europe,
27:50most of them promised to deliver Brexit.
27:53And now they can't agree between themselves how to do so.
27:58The question is, are they disagreeing
28:00because of what they believe is in the national interest,
28:03or are they disagreeing
28:05because of what they believe is in their party's interest?
28:09And if it's the latter,
28:10I wonder whether they'll ever get the public's trust back.
28:15Whatever happens, we have years of trade negotiations ahead of us.
28:19Unless MPs can bring themselves to present a united front soon,
28:24this kind of disarray will be with us for many moons to come.
28:33On BBC Two now, including interviews with European leaders of the time,
28:37how a catastrophic financial disaster was narrowly averted.
28:41Inside Europe, ten years of turmoil.
28:43Next this evening here on BBC One, Monday drama with Silent Witness.
28:49.