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00:00The participation of Malaysia in BRICS is a strategic step to expand the economic cooperation network,
00:08especially in terms of trade, investment and market diversification.
00:13Minister of Trade and Industry, Datuk Sri Tengku Zafrul Abdulaziz said,
00:18in terms of market expansion and economic strength,
00:21BRICS, which is co-chaired by Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa,
00:28as well as four new member states, has a cumulative population of 3.54 billion people
00:34with a GDP of 26.6 trillion US dollars, or 26.2% of the world's GDP.
00:46BRICS, as a bloc, forms a mega-market that will open up opportunities for market diversification
00:52and new sources of foreign investment to the country,
00:55which will contribute to sustainable economic development
00:58alongside balancing dependence on traditional markets,
01:02as well as US and European markets.
01:06This time, we will deepen the benefits and risks related to Malaysia's participation in BRICS
01:12as well as how the government plans to deal with the challenges that may arise in Malaysia's efforts to form a mega-market.
01:19And in this third segment, we have Professor Ulung,
01:23Datuk Dr Raja Razia, an economist from the University of Malaya,
01:26Prof, thank you for being with us.
01:28First of all, what is your view on the main challenges facing BRICS
01:35in maintaining multilateral cooperation,
01:38and at the same time, how do you see Malaysia's potential, benefits, and risks,
01:45especially in the huge economic gap in the BRICS group?
01:53First of all, I think we need to be aware that
01:57when BRICS was first officially launched in 2009 in Yekaterinburg, Russia,
02:07they were actually obliged to take a stand
02:12in line with what happened when Mr. Soekarno held the Bandung Summit in 1995,
02:20which is to strengthen the non-aligned movement.
02:28We have to realize that this is the origin of the existence of this body.
02:34So this is because they are trying to strengthen justice for all countries.
02:39Because of that, their participation, regardless of their size, regardless of their GDP,
02:45China's GDP has surpassed Malaysia's GDP,
02:53even though their population is 1.4 billion.
02:56So there are also poorer countries, such as India and South Africa.
03:01So even so, they have ensured that all laws and regulations are fair to all countries.
03:09So we have to accept such a position.
03:14Second, BRICS, as a large body, has a large market.
03:20As Mr. Haris said earlier,
03:24with a GDP of $25.8 trillion at present,
03:31while the G7 countries, which are the richest of the seven countries, including the United States,
03:38have a GDP of $46.8 trillion.
03:44In terms of percentages,
03:47BRICS actually contributes 51% if we combine the two bodies, G7 and BRICS.
03:57In addition to the five countries that Mr. Haris mentioned,
04:02in January 2024, officially,
04:06Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates,
04:10Iran, Egypt, Ethiopia, and Argentina have accepted BRICS.
04:17And now there is a new agreement between Malaysia and Thailand to accept BRICS.
04:24Prof, one of the important things,
04:27if we look at the context of the bloc economy,
04:32if we look at economic cooperation such as RCEP, CPTPP,
04:37and now we look at BRICS,
04:40and Minister Tengku Zafrul has said that he might also look at OECD.
04:47How can you give an understanding of the bloc economy and economic cooperation?
04:54Is it actually, as an open economy country,
04:59free for Malaysia to participate in any economic bloc,
05:02asking for participation and also to show that Malaysia is balanced in its market?
05:10Coincidentally, that is the intention, the desire that has been proposed by the Prime Minister,
05:16as well as the statements that I have understood from Minister Tengku Zafrul.
05:22But as far as we know,
05:24in the middle of the city, they have set strict conditions.
05:31For example, it is not easy for us to draw attention and support from the United States
05:38if we understand a body where Russia plays an important role.
05:42Not only Russia, but also China.
05:46Moreover, since President Barack Obama became the President of the United States,
05:51we can see the emergence of their base to support and tighten China's anger.
05:58So all of this will intensify the traits or tricks
06:04that may cause trouble for Malaysia.
06:07But I am very happy with the position of the Malaysian Prime Minister
06:11because he has said
06:13that we will see what is the interest of the country.
06:17If the interest of the country needs us to understand the bridge,
06:21I think there is no problem with that.
06:23And the position of the Malaysian Prime Minister at this time,
06:26he did not accuse or condemn anything that the United States did,
06:35other than his role in the Israeli-Palestinian crisis.
06:40I am also very happy with the position of the Malaysian Prime Minister
06:43because it shows the characteristics,
06:46except one, two,
06:48in line with the foundations that were originally laid by Tun Radat,
06:53which is part of ASEAN,
06:57which is that we take the position of Zofar,
07:00a zone of peace, freedom, and neutrality.
07:06So we want a zone that supports security,
07:13as well as something that supports freedom,
07:17as well as with an exception,
07:20so that we do not look at large powers.
07:24Prof, one of the things I want to bring in our discussion
07:28is to look at the economic and trade landscape of the country,
07:32because if we restrict economic cooperation,
07:35it must have a big impact,
07:37especially on the industry, for example.
07:40Some of our foundations, NIMP,
07:42and so on,
07:43put such high standards.
07:45How does this cooperation in the economic block,
07:48such as BRICS,
07:49will advance the industry,
07:51will advance the industry directly,
07:53especially in order to achieve the foundations that have been laid?
07:59Prof?
08:02I think for now,
08:04I don't see a new development
08:07when we try to assess China's participation,
08:11because Malaysia has already had a close relationship with China.
08:15For example,
08:16Malaysia's trade, including exports and imports,
08:20broke 20% of the country's trade.
08:23This has indeed developed and continued to rise since 2009.
08:28In 2023,
08:31it broke 20%.
08:33This means that we already have a close relationship with China.
08:36And recently,
08:37we also know that China has been targeted
08:40to strengthen the Malaysian T-Web system,
08:43as well as efforts to move technology
08:47from China to Malaysia.
08:49So, even though China is the richest country in BRICS,
08:53even though India is now,
08:55but China remains the richest country in BRICS,
08:59the investment must be greater.
09:02But that investment may not bring something new,
09:09because China has already had a good relationship with Malaysia.
09:13So, I just see,
09:16so that we use the BRICS,
09:19so that we also involve other countries,
09:22such as Russia, Brazil.
09:24Brazil has high technology
09:26in the production of small and simple aircraft.
09:31Embraer, for example,
09:33is one of the best aircraft in its size category.
09:40Embraer,
09:41such as the Fokker that we use here.
09:44So, from here,
09:46we can also learn a lot from Brazil.
09:49We can also contribute to Brazil's technology.
09:53And I also see President Lula of Brazil
09:56playing a big role in making BRICS successful.
10:00And with that,
10:02he also tried to create,
10:04this is his idea,
10:05which has now been accepted in 2014,
10:09the establishment of a new international bank.
10:14Its role is to support the development of infrastructure.
10:18Secondly,
10:20its role is to support countries
10:22that are facing problems
10:25of a so-called Muslim settlement.
10:27Because they can't pay back the negative balance,
10:30or they can't pay back their debts.
10:34So, and he also,
10:36if we look at this bank,
10:38it's not some kind of world bank,
10:40or an international monetary fund.
10:42Because this is not,
10:44I don't see a settlement where America,
10:47in terms of the world bank,
10:49with this IMF,
10:51America has a lot of power
10:53to control or influence
10:56the role of these two bodies.
10:59But this new international development bank
11:01is more focused on
11:03playing a more just role
11:07to support the financial settlement
11:09in these countries.
11:11So, this is one of the reasons I think
11:14and if we succeed,
11:16I hope we succeed
11:18to become one of the experts in BRICS.
11:21This means that we will have
11:23a wider ecosystem
11:26in the international framework
11:28to build the foundation of Malaysia
11:32to become a richer country,
11:34to improve the lives of Malaysians.
11:39Prof, I like it when you say
11:42it's related to what we can learn.
11:44Where one thing,
11:46aside from the market,
11:48the market will be wider
11:50in terms of cooperation,
11:52trade facilitation,
11:54that's one thing.
11:56But one thing is for us to learn
11:58from countries that may be more advanced
12:00in terms of technology,
12:02emerging economies.
12:04Emerging economies such as hydrogen,
12:06CCUS,
12:08there are many things we can learn
12:10from emerging economies.
12:12How do you see this as an important
12:14importance for Malaysia?
12:18Yes, I see it.
12:20China is one of the countries
12:22that has the first place
12:24in terms of the use of
12:26renewable fuels.
12:30It's not dependent on fossil fuels.
12:34This is one of the
12:38parameters that Malaysia
12:40has agreed to
12:42in order to achieve
12:44carbon net zero
12:46in 2050.
12:48This is a promise that Malaysia
12:50gave to the United Nations
12:52Convention for Climate Change,
12:54UNFCCC,
12:56after the Paris Accord,
12:58the Paris Agreement 2015,
13:00so that all countries
13:02involved support
13:04efforts to reduce
13:06carbon dioxide
13:08as well as
13:10greenhouse gas.
13:12So I think,
13:14given that China
13:16has agreed
13:18to reduce it,
13:20even though China also produces
13:22greenhouse gas,
13:24but to reduce it
13:26more than other countries,
13:28including the United States.
13:30In terms of windmills,
13:32China has the highest
13:34windmills in the world.
13:36In terms of solar panels,
13:38this also uses
13:40solar energy
13:42to replace
13:44fossil fuels.
13:46So all of these
13:48are among the technologies
13:50that Malaysia can
13:52try to learn
13:54from China.
13:56It is the largest
13:58economic entity,
14:00even though they maintain
14:02a fair balance.
14:04We also have to realize that China
14:06has contributed 41%
14:08to support
14:10in terms of liquidation,
14:12even though they use oil,
14:14and oil has not yet replaced
14:16the US,
14:18far from being left behind
14:20compared to the US dollar
14:22as an international currency.
14:24However, we see the movement
14:26towards such a target,
14:28this all shows
14:30that China has been
14:32working with Malaysia
14:34since Abdul Raghaf's
14:36leadership,
14:38so that we can
14:40act and be accepted
14:42as a country
14:44that is equal
14:46to other countries.
14:48Prof, there are only 2 minutes left.
14:50This might be my last question.
14:52How do you see,
14:54especially in terms of
14:56geopolitics,
14:58and also in terms of
15:00competition
15:02with the BRICS,
15:04is there a possibility
15:06that the BRICS can
15:08strengthen the relationship
15:10between Malaysia and
15:12the West,
15:14and also the conflicts
15:16between the member states,
15:18such as the US and China,
15:20as well as the US
15:22and Russia,
15:24how can this
15:26strengthen the relationship
15:28between Malaysia
15:30and the BRICS?
15:34I accept that
15:36there is a risk,
15:38but is our education
15:40strong enough?
15:42Do we have the courage
15:44to take actions
15:46towards a better future
15:48for Malaysia?
15:50Imagine the situation
15:52in the 60s
15:54and 70s.
15:56Not only the Prime Minister
15:58of Malaysia,
16:00they also
16:02rejected
16:04the recognition
16:06of the apartheid
16:08that started in 1948
16:10in South Africa.
16:12Second, Malaysia
16:14is also the first country
16:16among the free countries
16:18where the Prime Minister visited China
16:20in 1971.
16:22All of this shows
16:24that Malaysia has
16:26accepted and
16:28taken actions
16:30that show what Malaysia
16:32sees as something
16:34that is pure, yet there is
16:36a risk. There is a risk
16:38because there may be a big
16:40possibility of retaliation,
16:42especially from the US compared
16:44to European countries.
16:46But for me, it is good
16:48that we maintain our position
16:50and also that
16:52we are aware of the role
16:54of Israel in
16:56suppressing
16:58the Palestinian people.
17:00For me, all of this
17:02is a pure step. We cannot
17:04be afraid.
17:06We have to
17:08take
17:10honest
17:12actions
17:14that show
17:16that we are
17:18the leaders
17:20of Malaysia.
17:22I think what we are doing
17:24is good for
17:26the future of Malaysia.
17:28Thank you Prof. Ulung,
17:30Dr. Raja Raz Siapakai Ekonomi
17:32University of Malaya, for sharing
17:34your ideas and views
17:36on the economic bloc,
17:38especially in this break.
17:40Thank you, Prof.
17:42We will see you again
17:44on airstrawani.com and
17:46we will take a short break.