Mark Atkinson and Matthew Elder discuss the latest from Scottish football.
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00:00Hello and welcome to another episode of the Scotsman football show.
00:06My name is Matthew Elder and I'm joined by our sports editor,
00:09Mark Atkinson. He took over a busy last 48 hours of Scottish football,
00:15kicked off by the sacking of a second manager this season.
00:18Obviously, Craig Levine lost his job at St Johnstone last week.
00:22And this weekend, Stephen Naismith has paid the price for eight straight defeats at Harts.
00:28Mark, you were at St Mirren Harts on Saturday.
00:31You told me on Sunday morning that it could be a busy day.
00:33And you were right. Naismith was sacked.
00:36I think 1.46pm it was confirmed.
00:39And I think after having witnessed what you did in Paisley on Saturday,
00:43that was something that you were expecting on Sunday.
00:46Sadly, yes. I don't like seeing managers being sacked, especially Stephen Naismith.
00:51He's a likeable individual.
00:52A real privilege to go to his press conference and talk to him.
00:57Always very honest answers.
00:58But the reality is, and he admits that himself, that Harts' run of form is dreadful.
01:04Eight straight defeats across all competitions,
01:07one of which a defeat to Lower League opposition, albeit Falkirk, in the Premier Sports Cup.
01:13And also the team playing with little identity and real bluntness and attack.
01:20It just meant that the writing was on the wall for him.
01:23I don't think a Harts manager can really afford to go on that run of form and lose that many matches.
01:31People will say, well, he had credit in the bank.
01:33He did have credit in the bank.
01:35That's probably why he didn't lose his job after, say, six defeats in a row.
01:39I think he got given a little bit longer than perhaps other head coaches would have done at Harts.
01:43Craig Levine, you mentioned, was sacked on a four-game losing run.
01:47So, yeah, it was the right decision, you have to say,
01:50because Harts appeared to be going backwards this season under his watch.
01:54A real shame for Naismith, 38 years old, his first job.
01:58Remember, he got Harts to finish third last year and into two cup semifinals.
02:03Really impressive maiden campaign, but for whatever reasons, and there probably are plenty,
02:08it's not happened for him nor his players this season.
02:10And ultimately the head coach carries the can, and that's what's happened here.
02:15Just seemed to be a major issue with scoring goals, doesn't it?
02:18Even creating a chance to score a goal for Harts.
02:21Obviously, they relied heavily on Shankland last season and his 30-odd goals,
02:26but that's dried up and there's nobody else contributing now this season.
02:30And as you wrote in your report, you just couldn't see Harts producing the goal that they needed to save Naismith's job.
02:40You're absolutely right, Matthew.
02:41The goals are a huge issue, and Lawrence Shankland is a huge issue.
02:44He has not performed this season for whatever reason, be it to do with him personally or to do with how the team is set up.
02:52He doesn't look like scoring a goal at the moment, just a complete shadow of the player he was last season.
02:57And we saw last season, if Shankland didn't score, Harts didn't score either.
03:02It was down to him.
03:03But what they were doing was creating chances for the guy to score.
03:06This season, not only has Shankland misfired, but the fellow forwards and creative players have misfired.
03:13You look at people like Kenneth Vargas, his end product has been poor this season.
03:18Barry Mackay hasn't been able to stay fit and get a consistent run of games.
03:23You've got Jan Danda and Blair Spittle.
03:25They've come in and not hit the ground running and at times not played either.
03:29Liam Boyce hasn't really contributed either.
03:32They don't have enough going forward.
03:34Their only forward signing was Moussa Dramma, a Gambian from Sevilla, who is very raw and needs time to adjust the Scottish game.
03:44So that's a huge issue for Harts.
03:47If Shankland doesn't perform, there's no goals in that team.
03:51And three goals in nine competitive matches is very poor for a team of Harts' stature.
03:56And yeah, they didn't like scoring again against Simmer.
03:59And the goal came from a set piece, Craig Hedder.
04:02I think their other goals have been maybe a Frankie Kent goal, I think, in one of the matches.
04:06And actually Shankland did score against...
04:11I don't know if Shankland set up Vargas to score like it was against Motherwell.
04:14But apart from that, it's been slim pickings.
04:17That's going to be a big job for whoever takes over at Harts.
04:19How do you get this forward line?
04:21You can't add to this forward line until January.
04:23So how do you make it better?
04:25They're at the bottom of the league right now and the Harts team that we were seeing under Naismith looked like a team who could relegate.
04:31So the first thing they've got to do is shed that tag from them.
04:34There are good players there.
04:36The squad needs to take a longer look at itself.
04:38They're not performing.
04:39Too many good players just not picking up.
04:42And yeah, a big task for whoever comes in to get them going again.
04:47I do think they'll be OK.
04:48I think they've got enough quality there.
04:49But the next manager will be key.
04:53Looks like Alex Neil's been installed as the early bookies favourite.
04:57You can always take that with a pinch of salt this early.
05:00But there's other names there listed.
05:01Derek McInnes, Steven Robinson, obviously, both who have done particularly well with smaller clubs,
05:08perhaps getting them in the top six last season.
05:11And there's also the possibility of going down a form route.
05:14I saw reports this morning, obviously, that Tony Bloom and the Star Lizard investment that's coming in will be involved in the process of hiring a new manager,
05:22which could open doors that maybe wouldn't have been otherwise opened.
05:28Who would be putting it at the top of your list for the next Hearts manager job?
05:34It's always difficult to say this early on, but if I had to put my hat on something,
05:38I would say that the new manager will be somebody that many of us have not heard of.
05:43Just have a feeling that Hearts will go down a foreign route this time.
05:47Tony Bloom's relationship with Hearts is already quite strong.
05:51We expect a deal with Star Lizard to be finalised evidently.
05:55If that happens, then you may well even have access to a database.
06:00They will be able to see a number of coaches that they haven't already seen.
06:04You look at what Brighton have done.
06:05They've appointed Fabian Herzler, little known German coach from St.
06:10Pauli. Before that, they brought in Roberto Di Zerbi and they had him lined up a long way out.
06:16So they have a list of coaches that are not well-known names to the average Scottish football fan,
06:23the average football fan. I just think they might be slightly more, I don't know,
06:30I wouldn't say that it's an expansive search because they probably have got a number of
06:33coaches on their list already from other shores. I think they'll be a little bit more experimental.
06:39I think you also see what's happening at Aberdeen. If you meet Taleen coming in there
06:42and doing really well, that will give some boards a bit more confidence that they can go
06:48and get somebody from abroad and believe that they can get it right. I suppose the
06:52difference is that Taleen came in in pre-season and was lined up from a long way out. Whoever
06:58comes in at Hearts has got to hit the ground running straight away. You look at Stephen
07:03Robinson, Derek McInnes. I just don't think Hearts will go down that route.
07:08Alec Neal is available but would command a massive salary and is still very much based
07:13in England and I think he sees his future there. I think it will come from abroad and I think it
07:19will come from the Star Wizard book of contacts or database, shall we say. It'll be fascinating
07:26as the days and weeks go on to see which names emerge and which names start to become serious
07:31live candidates because, as you say, that bookie's list, how often do the bookies get it right the
07:36first couple of days? Not often. No, it's definitely going to be an interest and I want
07:41to keep an eye on developments at Tynecastle but there was also an event on at Rangers today.
07:48John Gilligan, the interim chairman, speaking for the first time since being appointed last week.
07:56What was the mood like at Ibrox today with that press call? I see that he came out sort of
08:04fighting, I suppose, in the face of some Dave King criticism and obviously his calls for an
08:11AGM were very much shot down. What was the mood like then? Yeah, I was impressed with John Gilligan
08:18given that he's 72 now. I don't think he particularly wanted to become chairman on an interim
08:24basis although he said it's a privilege and he'll do it for as long as required. He is coming in as
08:28a slight firefighter, there's no doubt about it, but what I would say is that his predecessor John
08:32Bennett never spoke to the press yet just a few weeks into the job Gilligan is there. He didn't
08:37look entirely comfortable to begin with but he got more cosy and expansive as the
08:42press conference went on. A lot of media there today, there was a lot of interest around Gilligan
08:47and what he had to say. As you touched upon, Dave King's explosive comments last week have caught
08:53the eye. He wants this emergency general meeting, he wants to become chairman for two years, he wants
08:58fresh investment, he wants the board to be changed and Gilligan said look, actually we are quite
09:03happy with where we are. We're going to get investment from the guys that are here and
09:07elsewhere. We feel we can bridge the gap with Celtic, we feel Clermont's the right person in
09:11charge, we feel we'll get it sooner rather than later. So actually he was trying to put a lot of
09:16positive spin on it and he completely rebuffed the idea that Rangers are a club in crisis. He said
09:22there's lots of good things going on right now. He admitted that there have been mistakes, I think
09:27that's impossible not to. He also admitted that Celtic are very much ahead of them right now. He
09:32said he wouldn't be stupid enough to say otherwise. A very honest appraisal at times from Gilligan
09:37about where the club is. I think the most interesting things were Dave King, he basically
09:43said to Dave King, look you're entitled to your say. Remember Gilligan and King were close on the
09:48Rangers board back in King's tenure between 2015 and 2017 but he said look you're entitled to your
09:54say but please keep your comments under the radar or below the radar, I think it was. They haven't
10:00appreciated this public diatribe that has come out. So yeah very much saying to King, look
10:07your vision's unrealistic and let's now not hear from you for a little while. And secondly he said
10:12that they're well on in their search for a CEO. Now they've been looking for a CEO for goodness
10:18knows how many months now, it feels like an eternity since James Bisgrove left. They were
10:23linked with Jim Gillespie at St Mirren, that's not happened. And yeah I think they need to work hard
10:29to get a CEO in place and get that structure rebuilt at Ibrox. But yeah fascinating stuff,
10:34lots to be read on the website and in print tomorrow as well from Gilligan and I think
10:40fair play to the guy for coming out and speaking as interim chairman. I think it was needed
10:44and it's done a good job there. Yeah obviously a lot of restlessness among the Rangers support
10:50this season but something like that today, seeing their interim chairman coming out
10:55with a fair degree of positivity must give them some hope that things are
11:01starting to maybe move in the right direction. But it was also a busy weekend of football
11:07obviously, we had the Premier Sports Cup quarter-finals where we'd taken a lot to knock
11:12Stephen Naismith off the back pages but Falkirk came close. There were obviously two on up at Celtic
11:18there and then Celtic bring on the big guns and go through 5-2 in the end and that's obviously
11:23set us up for the semi-finals which we'll see Celtic take on Aberdeen on Saturday November
11:29the 2nd I think I'm right in saying? That's right yeah. Rangers Motherwell on Sunday the 3rd.
11:36Two mouth-watering ties there especially, I'm looking forward especially to Celtic-Aberdeen
11:40if those two are still undefeated going into that match. Obviously it's still a month away yet,
11:45over a month away but something tough to give there. Yeah I think Aberdeen will be
11:52a bit disappointed they've landed Celtic. I think they would rather have got one of the other two
11:57but you've got to play Celtic at some point I suppose given the form they're on.
12:02Mouth-watering semi-final, they met in the Scottish Cup semi-final earlier this year
12:07and it went to penalties and that Aberdeen team was definitely not as strong as it is now.
12:12They do meet in the league beforehand, I think it's October 19th they play at Celtic Park
12:16and I always feel when you get these draws you go oh that's going to be a great tie but of course
12:22a lot can change in a month, a lot can change in a week in football and if Aberdeen are still
12:28on the premises, on the coattails of Celtic then they'll have done really well to navigate a
12:32difficult October. Celtic at hand are difficult to beat, Brendan Rodgers has got a fantastic record
12:39there. I would still expect Celtic to be too strong but half-time kick-off under the lights
12:45at Hamden, that'll be pretty special. And then Motherwell Rangers, I think that's a really
12:50intriguing tie. They played at Hamden earlier this year, it was Rangers' first home league game of the
12:56campaign and they only won narrowly 2-1. Motherwell are a difficult team to beat, to put away.
13:02They've got a lot of spirit and are well organised under Kettlewell and they've got a really good player
13:07in Lennon Miller in midfield and they'll be a little tricky for Rangers. They've also got good
13:12memories of beating Rangers in the Cup a few years ago when Louis Moult scored a couple of spectacular
13:16goals at Hamden. So yeah, two really good ties and of course the Old Firm kept apart. I think most
13:23would expect an Old Firm final on December 15th and you'd be hard-pressed to go against that but
13:30I always think at this time of year getting a November Sunday final is good for Scottish football
13:34and you've got another element to add in as well as European and league stuff. So I suspect both
13:38sets of fans will be hugely excited and now we'll end up having the ticket wrangle, the SPFL's
13:43ticket details will be announced in due course. I'm sure Aberdeen will be desperately wanting a
13:48fair split of tickets given that their form is so good right now.
13:54Yep, something tells me they won't get it but I'm sure they'll hope for that.
14:00Yeah, so that leads us into a big week of football ahead European-wise. So we had Celtic last week
14:05obviously kicked off their Champions League campaign in some style with that 5-1 win over
14:09Slovak Bratislava. Rangers now heading to Sweden to take on Malmo, a difficult opening night of
14:15their Europa League campaign against a team that are top of the Swedish table at the moment.
14:22How do you see that one going? Do you think Rangers can do a Celtic and get off to an equally
14:27impressive start? I'd be stunned if they went to Sweden and won 5-1. I think Malmo are the
14:34Champions League qualifiers, dropped out of there. Rangers have got a horrible Europa League draw in
14:39terms of the task they're up against. You've got so many good teams to play against. This is probably
14:44one of the ties they'd identify as a winnable one, just given that they're not as fearsome as
14:51say Spurs or Lyon, some of the teams that they're going to be facing. But it's hard to know with
14:58Rangers. They've been capable in the past in this competition of getting strong results when
15:04you don't expect it. They've got this great relationship with the Europa League, obviously
15:08finalists in 2022, where they've gone and got excellent results. I don't think they'll fear
15:14going to Malmo and I think Philippe Clement takes them there in a decent place. They've recovered
15:20quite well from the old firm defeat. They won at Dundee United, a game you were at, where they
15:26weren't at their best, but they got the job done. Then they took care of Dundee back at
15:30Ibrox and I suspect that will probably give them a lot of belief going into the European matches.
15:38It wouldn't surprise me if they got a positive result. I think a draw would be a positive result.
15:42What we're still trying to work out here is how these new European competitions work in these
15:49very, very big league phases where you've got a number of permutations about how you can get
15:54into the next round. I don't think we'll see that settle until maybe game week three or four. So,
16:00avoiding defeat in Sweden gives them a really good platform to go and build on
16:03in what is an extremely difficult fixture list for them.
16:08Indeed, indeed. Let's hope for Scottish football's sake, the co-efficient's sake,
16:12that we can get another positive result this week. Obviously, it's down to hearts then the
16:16following week when they go to Azerbaijan, whether they've got a new manager in place by then
16:21for the Dynamo Minsk tie would probably be doubtful but remains to be seen.
16:27Mark, thanks for joining me on this Scotsman football show. You can read all about everything
16:31we've spoken about on the scotsman.com forward slash sport website. Mark, as I said, thanks
16:37for joining me and just catch us on the next football show. Thank you.