Linkin Park: The Emptiness Machine, New Album & Return To Music With Apple Music’s Zane Lowe
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00:00We had this conversation about like the what-ifs of the band and it wasn't like let's do it,
00:07it was like can you imagine?
00:09When we started the band it was just friends getting together, talking about life and the
00:16things that we could create together.
00:21When I started to hear Emily's voice on things, it was like the first time that my brain would
00:26accept it as a Linkin Park song.
00:30I mean, this could work.
00:35And then all of a sudden we're here and it's very real and it's really big.
00:41For more than a decade Linkin Park gave us songs of resilience and empathy, reaching
00:45millions of people and building one of music's most faithful fan bases.
00:50But as they were reaching us, one of their own, the brilliant Chester Bennington slipped
00:54out of reach in 2017.
00:57Fans rallied around the band as they said goodbye, unsure if we'd ever get a chance
01:00to see them again.
01:01But here we are, seven years on, Linkin Park are officially back with a new singer and
01:07drummer and new music ready to reach us once more.
01:14Today is a celebration, a chance to build on the incredible legacy of Chester, of Linkin
01:18Park and the magical healing power of music.
01:29Look at this place, bro.
01:30I don't know what I was expecting when I was coming here today.
01:31I got goosebumps because I'm like, what stage is this?
01:34So we've got a launch stage and then this is the arena stage.
01:38This is the arena stage.
01:40And then there'll be a bigger stage.
01:42There's no one to play here, Mike.
01:43There's no one to play.
01:44No, no.
01:45You're all in.
01:46We're committed, yeah.
01:47That's why we're here.
01:48We're here to talk about commitment.
01:49Yeah, man.
01:50Right?
01:51We're here to talk about Linkin Park.
01:52Oh, man.
01:53I can't tell you how happy I am to see you and to be able to do that.
01:56Can I go on the stage though?
01:57Can we go on the stage?
01:58Let's do it, man.
01:59Let's go.
02:00Yeah.
02:01Come on up this way.
02:02You know, the live show has always been such an important part of who we are.
02:06With a lot of years behind us, we've done a lot of things.
02:10So we had to do something we hadn't done.
02:12What?
02:13Like in the round?
02:14Yeah.
02:15Yeah.
02:17With new members is in the round.
02:19I don't think anyone needs me to explain why that's kind of psycho.
02:25It's very...
02:26Actually, what's funny is, I think in the round is easier for solo artists.
02:31Right.
02:32Because they're just that single point of interest moving around.
02:35Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:36Ed Sheeran's having a great time.
02:37And then we, as we were designing and building whatever, we went, oh, wow, it's really different
02:43for a band to do this.
02:45The music culture is so single or solo artist, small group oriented that it's six people
02:51on stage.
02:52What am I doing here?
02:53So this is you.
02:54That's me.
02:55Yeah.
02:56But this is Colin.
02:57Okay.
02:58Yes.
02:59So Colin facing that way.
03:00Joe facing that way.
03:02I'm facing this way.
03:03And when we can, we're going to do like halftime at the basketball game.
03:10We're going to switch sides.
03:11Love it.
03:12I love it.
03:13I love it.
03:14So we're going to do a couple of variations, but then you move around.
03:16So let's just talk about the scale of this for a second, because I don't know if it looks
03:20bigger or smaller on camera, but it feels big to me.
03:24Yeah.
03:25No, it doesn't just feel big.
03:26It is genuinely big.
03:27Like we're in a huge soundstage here.
03:28You're taking up every inch of it.
03:30Your whole crew is here.
03:31Look over there.
03:32You got people who you've worked with from the start.
03:35Right.
03:36I mean, this has not just been about getting, giving the band an opportunity to continue
03:41and to make new music and to move forward, but also it's a reunion.
03:46Yeah. Some of the folks that we're working with across the board have been with us
03:53since the beginning, like first tour, first album cycle, and other people are brand new,
04:03right? And to have all of those different points of view, all of that diversity of types of people
04:10and ways of thinking is like, I don't know if we could do it without that. We need all of it,
04:16and we thrive on having that family around us. I think that's part of who we are.
04:23It's funny, family old and new, like you say, bring different perspectives, but
04:29there's just an inbuilt emotional resonance with people who have watched you grow up doing what
04:35you love, and they've been doing what they love, and you shared in it together that I'm sure has
04:41created some emotional moments with people who wondered in the last seven or so years,
04:47whether you would ever get a chance to spend time together again like this.
04:51Yeah. We felt like we were, seven years ago, we were launching a record. We were just getting
04:57started with that, and everything came to a halt, and it felt like it got taken away. It felt like
05:03we had a thing that we're really happy with and proud of, and it was gone. One of the things that
05:09happened that a lot of people don't think about is that the people off stage had that feeling.
05:14There was hundreds of people from the tour, to the management, to the label, lots of people there,
05:23and so on. There was a part of us over the last seven years where we did remember that
05:33we have a, I don't want to say it's like a responsibility because it's not all that serious,
05:38but there is a benefit to like, if we get this thing up and running and we do it well,
05:46then everybody gets to play a role. Everybody gets to jump back in their seat on the Millennium
05:52Falcon and shoot the back. You know what I'm saying? Totally. I think it is a responsibility,
05:56but not just on you. That's the difference. I think everybody wants that responsibility back
06:02of playing a role in something that makes a lot of people happy and ultimately
06:07leave something that is lasting. That is what you do and your peers and friends do through the ages
06:15is you create art and it will last long after we're gone and you create memories that will stay
06:21with us as long as we're here. I mean, that's our hope. That's our goal, right? All right. I mean,
06:26we're going to get into kind of how this is all unfolded when we get to sit down and pretty soon
06:31and also I get to actually spend some time with Colin and Emily, which is going to be exciting.
06:35I'm excited for you to do it. Yeah. And also see Brad again, see Joe again. I haven't seen,
06:39I think we figured I saw him in the hallway 10 years probably because I've seen you and Dave.
06:43Oh, wow. Yeah. Rob's not here. That's right. Probably a good time for us while we buy the
06:48drum kit just sort of for the fans to elaborate a little bit on that. Yeah. Rob, you know, we had
06:54a conversation a little while ago. I want to say it's like a couple of years ago at this point
07:00where he said he wanted to step away. We didn't talk about that in public because we didn't really
07:05know how that was going to work out. The fans noticed it. I mean, they've seen that like we
07:10put out, you know, as you know, we did paper cuts. We released a bunch of things. We celebrated hybrid
07:15theory and he wasn't part of any of the, you know, interviews or marketing or whatever.
07:21And that's why, you know, we'll always love the guy. You know, we'll always respect like
07:28the wonderful things we built together. And yeah, with his absence being a real thing,
07:35I was already working with Colin. Yeah. And Colin is, I didn't even think of Colin as a drummer.
07:41Because he's a record producer. He writes, he produces, he does everything. He plays guitar
07:46really well. He plays piano well. But his main instrument is drums. And it clicked. Yeah, it did.
07:51And it feels like in many respects that's the reason we're here is that I don't know how to
07:55put it. When I spoke to you on the phone the other day, before we met here today with all
07:59the cameras and everybody here, it didn't sound like you had any of this felt like you were
08:05trying. And I know you did and put a lot of hard work and effort and love into this. But it felt
08:10to me like the way you were describing it, like it was as organic as it could be.
08:15That's how it felt to me. Like we didn't say, hey, let's get the band started again. We didn't
08:21say, let's do tryouts. Let's find somebody or whatever. It was even suggested to us at one
08:27point like, hey, you guys could do like a competition show on TV and have all these,
08:34you'd have the best singers and you'd pick the best ones. Oh my God. Right. And anything you
08:40can imagine, any crazy idea that a person comes up with, it's like, oh, you could have done it
08:44this way. That came to us. They all came. I'm not trying to say there's any such thing as a bad idea,
08:50but that's tough to acknowledge. The idea that in the midst of trying to figure out how you
08:58reappear for yourselves in a way that's authentic so that the fans, so that we embrace it because
09:04it's authentic, to do that through the filter of entertainment would have been, I think,
09:08nearly impossible. I think that bands are more and more rare these days. And so maybe it escapes
09:17a lot of people that one of the fundamentals of a band is that there's a bunch of people who are
09:23sharing everything, all the creative space and the touring and all these decisions and stuff.
09:29And you've got to spend a lot of time together. And you're sharing all of that stuff in a more
09:35intense way than you would be if you were a smaller group or if you're a solo artist. So
09:40for us, talent just gets you in the door. We expect that if somebody's going to come in and
09:46we're going to do a little writing session. You can play. Of course, they got to be able to do
09:50that. It's not about that. It's on top of that. What's the vibe in the room? What's the dynamic
09:55between the people in the band and the conversations we have that aren't related to the music?
10:03What kind of people? Are they good people? All that stuff becomes so, so important. So for us,
10:09the idea of tryouts or the idea of finding somebody through a talent- It's too rigid.
10:15It's not about the talent. It's about the person. Yeah, exactly. And then by the way,
10:18you're on the hook because everyone voted for them or whatever. They all want them to be in
10:21the band. Then you go on tour and it's like, oh my gosh. It could not be more incompatible.
10:26Could be. We're stuck. You're stuck with that. Stakes are even higher because you had this,
10:31whether you want it or not, this time, each of you, away. And I know the friendship remained
10:36and you had reasons to reconnect. You were very kind to us all in terms of reconnecting with the
10:41music, re-releasing things, keeping the Lincoln Park experience alive. But you were figuring it
10:48out on your own. Post Traumatic is a powerful body of work and we never really got to talk
10:52about that. You could have just made Place to Start and just that because it says everything
11:00in that one moment of feeling guilty for just wanting to continue doing something that you love
11:05that you now have no control over. I wanted to ask you before we sit down- I forgot about all
11:09that in the song. You literally said a bunch of stuff like, oh yeah, that's right. It's very
11:13powerful. It's very powerful. Yeah, well, probably a good thing. But before we sit down and start
11:20really focusing on the future, can you trace back that we're here today because of that?
11:26That's kind of where your journey started. You make a great point in that sometimes
11:32as an artist over the years, I or we will put out music and then disappear and do a bunch of
11:41creative work and then pop back up. And there's a whole narrative that people kind of missed
11:46in between that got you there. And sometimes that means that that thing you came back with
11:53is very dramatically different and weird and people are confused or uncomfortable.
11:57My journey through this was a little more of the opposite where I was very upfront about how I was
12:07doing and what was happening. It was happening in my head. And I put out a record called Post
12:11Dramatic. You said a bunch of songs. I did a whole tour to kind of commune with the fans and give
12:18them a place to come and say like, this has affected me like this. What's going to happen?
12:24And the answer was, we don't know. Nobody knows.
12:26Well, because that album was just full of questions. And I'm sure everybody in the band
12:33was asking the same questions in their own way. What is life now? What's wide open for us?
12:40I don't know if you can honestly ask yourself now looking back on it, if you imagine that
12:46this machine, you'd be standing under it and within it again like this.
12:53It was actually at some points, it was so scary.
13:00To commit to it, to imagine it and get your hopes up about it.
13:04Right. You had to measure your hopes.
13:06Oh, man. It was so hard to say, yeah, we're going to do it again. It's
13:14enough things are starting to come together and work out that it feels like it might...
13:19The architecture could be scary. Yeah, because you're in a safe place just creating. And
13:24by the way, how the fuck did you keep it such a good secret? That's insane.
13:29I kind of want to know...
13:29I can't wait for you to hear some of the other stories from the other folks in the band about
13:34that.
13:34You know what?
13:36Neither can I. Let's go over there now.
13:45It's great to meet you.
13:47Congrats.
13:47Great to meet you.
13:49Great to meet you.
13:50You too.
13:50Congrats.
13:51And congrats on all of you for being here. It's lovely to see old friends in there.
13:54I feel like we've literally known you since we started our whole career.
13:58Pretty much.
13:59And I don't know if I could say that about anybody else.
14:02Yeah.
14:02I mean, there are other humans that we know, but I'm saying...
14:05I can't think of any in this capacity.
14:08Yeah.
14:09You're him.
14:11Yeah, we're still here. It's a blessing and I don't take it for granted.
14:15And what year did One Step Closer come out? When did it come out?
14:21Oh God, was it 2000?
14:222000. So yeah, we're getting up to 25 years. We've known each other.
14:26Was that right? 2000?
14:28Oh my God.
14:28You had purple hair.
14:31And at one point I probably did, but I started with red.
14:33You remember the original?
14:35Red. Oh yeah, absolutely.
14:36Man, you were kids.
14:37Yeah.
14:38Yeah.
14:38You were kids and it was happening very, very fast.
14:40I felt like it became this really quickly, like this kind of scale really quickly.
14:45Coming back to this, having had this space between what Linkin Park ultimately became,
14:52right? The scale of it, the size of it, Brad, and then coming back to it.
14:57This isn't an underplay stage.
14:58I was telling Emily, like, I just feel so relieved because there's probably like
15:02300 road cases stacked up on the side of this huge soundstage over there,
15:07and you wouldn't believe how much space they were taking up in my garage.
15:12That was your job? Your job was to hold all the flight cases? That was your straw?
15:18That's hilarious.
15:19You had one job.
15:20We were just trying to, we needed to save money on storage.
15:23Flight case joke aside, did it surprise anybody in the band when you first walked in here
15:29that this was kind of where you left off? This is what you do.
15:34You work in these huge environments and prepare to play big shows with
15:38massive screens and massive stages, you know?
15:41It surprised me. I mean, when I walked in, this was on paper.
15:47Like, we were still working out.
15:48I felt like we were still working out the shape of everything
15:51a week before, and then all of a sudden we're here and it's very real and it's really big.
15:56It's almost that feeling of like, oh, this is what I committed to.
16:02This is what I signed up for, and it's like, it made me a little nervous.
16:07Well, you're sort of a frog in a pot of boiling water when it's all happening over 10, 20 years,
16:12and it just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and then that's just your gig.
16:15That's what it is, and then it's like, no, it's not that anymore.
16:19And then it's like, no, it's not that anymore.
16:21How long...
16:23Obviously, putting aside the emotional changes that had to occur and what you had to go through
16:28as people, how long did it take you, Dave, to kind of pump the brakes on this seven years ago
16:36and realize that this may not be a part of your life again, and that's okay?
16:40For me, I've always had music as a part of my life starting when I was five, six years old,
16:48and it's never been a focal point of like, this needs to be my career or this needs to be
16:54anything else other than, for me, what has been an incredible outlet.
16:59And even looking back seven years ago, I just had the feeling of,
17:05I'm going to keep doing music in some way or another, whether that means,
17:09which is even what I was doing, playing with my kids at home.
17:12I'm going to keep doing that, but there's no promises that we'll do Linkin Park again.
17:17There's no promises that it'll be at any level or anything other than that.
17:22And oddly for me, that felt okay.
17:27And at the same time, a couple of years ago when Mike, Joe, and I started talking about like,
17:33are we going to do Linkin Park again?
17:35Is that a thing?
17:37There was a real excitement from that early stage of like, well, let's just get together,
17:40hang out, let's start talking together about maybe doing that.
17:45Let's see what comes of it.
17:46And gradually like that grows to here.
17:51And so to your question a second ago, when we got in this room,
17:55the first day we were rehearsing in this space,
17:57the first like 20 minutes for me were just kind of a mix of anxiety and panic and like,
18:03oh boy, this is now like a significant step on that process or on that journey.
18:09This is real.
18:12There's no more like, eh, maybe it's a...
18:14It's almost like there's two of you, you know?
18:16It's like, well, I've kind of got this other life going on now.
18:18And then I've got to remind myself who I am when I'm in this band
18:22and when we get to do it at this scale, which is, it's the dream.
18:28It's what everyone aspires to, you know?
18:29When you start out, I mean, look, you set your own goals in life,
18:32but you want to reach as many people as you can.
18:34You want to have as much excitement and fun as you can.
18:37And you have, and you'll have more.
18:39And so as we meet you, Emily, someone who's dedicated your life to music,
18:44with Dead Sarah, achieved things, made great music, played shows,
18:47done all the things you wanted to do as a young person starting out on this.
18:51And then it's like, boom, welcome to Burbank.
18:54Burbank, I love it.
18:57Welcome to sunny Burbank, the only place where you can build a place this big
19:01to score an arena stage just for fun, right?
19:04Exactly.
19:05How has that, before we even get into making music
19:07and the chemistry of how you got here, just staying in the moment,
19:11what were your first impressions when you sort of walked in here
19:14and you were like, all right, this is my stage now?
19:15Yeah, I was like, whatever.
19:21I mean, it's been, you know, this past year,
19:24just like little by little, you know,
19:26being able to like process a little bit of it day by day.
19:31And also like, we got to see pictures of the stage and everything
19:35and how it was being built.
19:37But it was like that first day coming on stage, I was like, oh my God.
19:43Everything is so neat.
19:45Look how everything is perfectly wound and wrapped up.
19:49There's not one wire out of place.
19:51That was actually me.
19:52Yes.
19:53It was a shit show in here.
19:55Yeah.
19:55And I came in one night, late at night, just OCD'd the heck out of this place.
20:01No one even acknowledged it.
20:03But I feel like I'm getting my proper...
20:06We can acknowledge it now.
20:08And also, listen, not everybody needs to be pat on the back
20:11for doing what is inherently their job just by nature.
20:14You were built this way.
20:15Get out of your own way.
20:16Be the tidier.
20:17It's who you are.
20:18Accept it.
20:18Embrace it.
20:19You need a cord tidied.
20:20I'm your guy.
20:21So I've got to get past this now.
20:22I've got to get past how it feels just to be here with you in this room.
20:24It's taken me a while because it was emotional for me
20:27as well as a lifelong fan and friend to know that this was even happening.
20:31We were going to be able to talk.
20:32And I'm really grateful that you've taken the opportunity to talk with me
20:35and with all of us and you chose us to have a conversation with.
20:39So thank you.
20:40Let's get into how this group of people started to form
20:43and what steps needed to be taken for Colin and for Emily
20:47and for all of you now to be able to sit here today
20:49and say to fans, we're Linkin Park.
20:51We're not another name.
20:53This isn't in honor of playing shows
20:56because we want to go out and play shows,
20:57which some people reunite just to play shows.
21:00It feels real.
21:01There's an album.
21:02You've announced an album.
21:03We made some music.
21:04So let's talk about how we got here.
21:06For me, I've been doing lots of stuff.
21:10I did the post-traumatic record.
21:12I did some singles.
21:13I was working with a bunch of different artists,
21:15like writing, producing.
21:16And there was one moment a few years ago,
21:22a specific moment where it was the end of summer.
21:25And I remember getting on the phone with Joe.
21:28And Joe was like, I really want to get back together as friends.
21:33I feel like we haven't been hanging out.
21:35And we haven't seen each other as much as I'd like.
21:38And like, what are you doing?
21:41Let's go get breakfast or something.
21:42And when we sat down at this little brunch spot,
21:46we had this conversation about the what-ifs of the band.
21:51And it wasn't like, let's do it.
21:53It was like, can you imagine?
21:55There was a million questions, right?
21:58Everything was unanswered.
21:59So we went through this weird little idea or list of it.
22:04And at one point, I was like, what if we do it
22:08and we're really happy with it, but nobody else really likes it?
22:11Great question, by the way.
22:12Powerful question.
22:14My feeling was, well, I won't say my feeling,
22:17because Joe's answer was, oh, I'd totally still do it.
22:21And he was so decisive.
22:24It was so real.
22:27And I felt the same way.
22:29And that was, for me personally, that was big.
22:31But did you feel the same way before Joe unlocked that in you?
22:34Because I can also understand why you asked the question.
22:37Because those expectations, you've got to acknowledge that they're there.
22:42Even just to get past them.
22:44Otherwise, you're in denial.
22:46Yeah, it's almost like an unspoken goal or hope or whatever.
22:50And you're right.
22:50Like, I feel like I'm not 100% sure if I felt it the way he felt it.
22:55But when he said it, it was like a real...
22:58Joe, had you considered that question, even just privately in your mind?
23:04Like, if we had a chance to do this again,
23:06would I be happy just doing it to my own satisfaction
23:09without the pressure of it being a Linkin Park
23:11that everybody else wants it to be?
23:13Or did it surprise you, your own answer to that question?
23:15Yeah, for sure.
23:16It was a thought at different moments in time.
23:20I would think about that and probably have a different answer at different times,
23:23depending on how I'm feeling.
23:26I think it comes down to when we started the band.
23:32It was just friends getting together and just like,
23:35oh, that's cool.
23:36Not just making the music or thinking about playing live,
23:38but us talking about life and the things that we like
23:42and the things that we could create together.
23:45Whenever conversations steer towards that type of enjoyment,
23:50then it gets to a pure place of creation and freedom.
23:53And that's really what I miss.
23:56And I think as we became successful,
24:00some of that would get lost sometimes.
24:03But whenever we get back to the core,
24:04even making this record,
24:07we just get together and sometimes six hours goes by.
24:11We're not making any music.
24:13We're just hanging out.
24:15And that's what it's about.
24:17And there might be something that comes out from a conversation
24:20that that's the genesis of the ideas.
24:22Oh, let's write about that.
24:23Okay. Or like, oh, this is a rhythm,
24:26a sound that I'm thinking of.
24:27And that's what I missed.
24:30And just seeing the seed of that type of idea,
24:33what it can turn into,
24:34ultimately playing live and sharing that with people.
24:37Yeah, that works itself out later.
24:39It extends outside of us too.
24:42If you talk to anyone that's here,
24:45it's a job,
24:46but they're doing everything they can
24:49because they're invested in the joy
24:54of what brought them to this space too,
24:56and how they can help us to make something great.
25:00And they have ownership of that.
25:02And we draw a lot of power from that as well.
25:06It's given me a lot to think about it.
25:07In particular, when you talk about the idea of feeling
25:10like you can go back to the beginning.
25:11And I think the album title reflects that very cleverly,
25:16because any Rural Linkin Park fan knows
25:18that you're originally called Zero with an X,
25:19which is pretty sick, by the way.
25:22I mean, in terms of discarded band names,
25:24it's kind of up there.
25:26You know what I mean?
25:26It's been a lot worse.
25:28It feels like you're feeling that,
25:31the whole process,
25:32not just the beginning of the album
25:33and answering those questions,
25:35but you wanted to hold on to that sense
25:38of how we felt at the start.
25:40If we can't be those kids anymore,
25:42can we recapture that feeling?
25:44Hmm.
25:46Yeah.
25:48One of the reasons for the album title,
25:52I mean, it's obviously a double entendre
25:55about blank canvases
25:58and also about our band in particular.
26:02And we felt like we have a new energy.
26:07It's almost like going back in time
26:09and going to the start and starting again,
26:13except you have the benefit
26:14of all the stuff you know.
26:15Yeah.
26:16We know what we've been through.
26:18Emily knows what she's been through.
26:20Colin knows what he's...
26:21And everybody brought those things to the table.
26:24I actually, one of the things I really enjoyed
26:26is they're from a younger generation than me.
26:31So some of the stuff
26:33that they were bringing to the table was refreshing.
26:36It was just a different point of view
26:39that I wouldn't have had.
26:41And as we were writing stuff,
26:43it was a lot of that.
26:45And also a lot of just their own individual,
26:48specific individual way of doing things
26:50and creative process.
26:52They're great in the studio.
26:53They're fun to hang out with.
26:54Yeah. You said up on stage,
26:55how important that is,
26:56is that you've got people
26:57that you want to spend time with
26:58and that you want to support personally,
27:00not just creatively, right?
27:01How important that is.
27:03So how did you start to work together?
27:05Because obviously,
27:07whoever's idea it was to hold
27:09like a mainstream television competition
27:11to try and get a new lead singer,
27:13that didn't land.
27:14So I'm only guessing it was the opposite of that.
27:17That it was like,
27:17just let's just be very granular here.
27:20What's the first one?
27:21Well, what's the first one?
27:23So we were talking,
27:24Dave and Joe and I were talking,
27:26but Colin and I had started,
27:27when did we meet?
27:2920, 21?
27:31Yeah.
27:31About 21-ish.
27:33And I would, like I said,
27:34I was doing some sessions
27:35with some other artists.
27:36That was, has been what Colin was doing.
27:40And we did a, we did a session together.
27:43I walked out of that session being like,
27:45dude, that guy is insane.
27:47Like he's, he and I have like a thing,
27:49like we, I feel like we think similarly or something.
27:53And so we set up some more sessions.
27:55Yeah.
27:55And actually the only reason I did that session
27:58was to work with Mike, actually.
28:01And so I was just excited.
28:03I was like, kind of whatever.
28:05Is it the first time you've said that?
28:07No, I think I've told me that way later though.
28:09I didn't know that for a really long time.
28:11Yeah.
28:11That's a weird intro to a session.
28:15Be like, hey Mike, nice to meet you.
28:16The only reason I'm here today
28:17is just because I want to work with you.
28:19Something kind of cool about that too though.
28:21Just put all your guys on the table.
28:22He played it very cool.
28:24We wound up working together for a long time.
28:27I feel like over a year probably,
28:29just periodically, you know,
28:30a couple of times a month probably
28:32on other sessions and songwriting.
28:33And it was always fun.
28:34There's always so much to learn from Mike.
28:37And I think that your creative process
28:42was something that I've always really admired.
28:45And from the time,
28:47Linkin Park music was what got me into production
28:50to start with.
28:50I've already told these guys this.
28:51This isn't new information.
28:53I used to be in my dad's house,
28:55who's a musician,
28:56and he had a bunch of music here.
28:57And I would try to recreate the faint sample.
29:01It's one thing to go into a studio
29:03and get to work with someone who inspired you
29:04to want to create music yourself.
29:05It's another thing to realize
29:06that actually now you've fallen into sessions
29:08that actually might be something else.
29:10That might actually be a Linkin Park thing.
29:13I guess what I'm trying to achieve
29:14for all of us here,
29:15myself included and the fans,
29:16is when does it actually start to feel,
29:19in particular to Emily and to Colin,
29:22like, is this Linkin Park we're doing?
29:26Like, is that what we're doing?
29:27Like, have I gone from working with Mike
29:29to like, now Dave's here and Joe's here
29:31and Brad's here and now everyone's...
29:32What's going on?
29:33Do you know what I mean?
29:34I do.
29:35To give a look a little bit behind the curtain,
29:37here we're sitting in this and it's this,
29:39but there's so many little steps along the way
29:43that we were literally starting from zero.
29:46It sounds cheesy to say it in that manner,
29:49but there was no roadmap
29:51and we don't have a direction at that point
29:53of what we're trying to land at.
29:56It was, at least in my head,
29:58it was as sincere as let's get together
30:01and just see if we even like what we're doing.
30:04Truth be told, there's a lot of times
30:06when I'd drive up to Mike's
30:08and we'd hang out in the studio
30:09and we'd just talk for six hours.
30:12And that's funny too, because in retrospect,
30:14like, my kids don't realize or understand
30:17why all these guys know what's going on in their lives.
30:20And I'm like, it's because we hang out all the time
30:23and we talk and we're not just sitting there
30:24playing instruments or whatever.
30:25Like, you've got to like live together and feel it out.
30:29So when I first met Colin,
30:31it wasn't, there was no part of it of,
30:35this is where Linkin Park goes.
30:37It was strictly like, let's just make some stuff
30:40and see what happens.
30:40Let's meet, let's hang out, let's do whatever.
30:43Same with Emily.
30:43We've known Emily for a bunch of years,
30:45but it was always this long process of like,
30:48we don't know what we're doing,
30:50but let's just hang out and make some stuff
30:52and see what happens.
30:53And then from their side, who knows?
30:56Let's talk about the who knows.
30:57You'll never know.
30:58Wow, that's very sage and very meditative.
31:02And years of being in the music business
31:04will hopefully teach you how to do that.
31:06That being said, let's talk about hopes
31:08because you're in control of your hopes
31:10because you have to be, right?
31:11You can't get your hopes up too high.
31:12You just want your friendship back.
31:14You want the experience of being together.
31:15But we've got to acknowledge that there are hopes here.
31:18We spend time in a room with people making music.
31:20Emily's starting to like sing on some stuff,
31:22write some stuff, figure some stuff out.
31:25Where are your hopes at this point?
31:26It's a good question.
31:28We started writing actually in 2019.
31:31We did a couple songs
31:33and it was just, everything was a question mark.
31:35You know, it was just fun to go in and write some stuff.
31:38And then of course the pandemic happened, you know?
31:44And it wasn't until a couple of years later, whatever,
31:46a few years later, you called me.
31:47And I was like, yeah, I would love to come in.
31:50And it was like, at that point,
31:53I felt like I was really open,
31:57open to what would eventually be what this is.
32:02But at the time I didn't know what it was, right?
32:04I felt an energy.
32:06I did.
32:06That's all I could kind of go after, right?
32:10And I just knew at that point,
32:13going in and working with Mike,
32:16and at the time it was just like a few questionable.
32:18It wasn't everybody.
32:19It was just like certain people showed up.
32:21Yeah, yeah.
32:23And like Colin, I got to know Colin
32:24and I just knew that I loved going back
32:27and I learned more and it was fun.
32:30I think from that point, it was, it just became,
32:35it wasn't like a moment, you know,
32:37where it was like, oh my gosh, this could be it.
32:39It was just like, what's going on?
32:42And I like this.
32:43And the more and more creative that everybody else got.
32:45And it was like, it was infectious
32:47and it was really, really fun, you know?
32:50And that's what I love about being in a band,
32:53you know, having been in a band for 20 years, you know?
32:56It's like, I love it.
32:57It's the magic.
32:59It's that.
32:59And I was just like all about it, you know?
33:02And it was like, okay, this is what we're going to do.
33:04Emily, so we're going to start booking some shows.
33:07And I was like, okay, cool.
33:09That was actually a big moment.
33:10It was very small.
33:13It was very small.
33:15The moment you found out you were,
33:16this was Linkin Park was when you're like,
33:18hey, our booking agent's on the phone.
33:20Do you want to do six arenas?
33:22The context, just to lay the context.
33:24That's exactly how it went.
33:25To lay out the context,
33:27we, because I know that actually does sound crazy.
33:30Crazy.
33:30Super crazy.
33:31And we were at that point,
33:33everything was still very organic and like amorphous.
33:37Like there wasn't a lot of shape to it.
33:39Yeah.
33:40I think you were under the impression
33:41that you might be like a featured artist, right?
33:43Like she, I got the vibe that that'd be like, yeah.
33:47And we weren't even clear at that point,
33:49if it was, is there, like,
33:52am I going to be carrying a bunch of vocals?
33:54Are we going to have another vocalist?
33:56Are we going to have multiple vocalists on stage?
33:58Like, I don't know what, we had all these options.
34:00Yeah.
34:01And then, yeah.
34:02And then some real shows showed up on the radar.
34:06They had like reached out to management.
34:09Those shows since had not happened,
34:11but it was just like the impetus for like,
34:12hey, like apparently people actually
34:16really want to see the band.
34:17Like you still have fans out there.
34:19Yeah.
34:20And.
34:21You still have fans out here.
34:24Believe it or not, like there are,
34:26there were moments in the last seven years
34:28where I was not positive.
34:29That was a real,
34:31I wasn't convinced that there were a lot of fans out there
34:34for us in some, whatever version.
34:37Like, do you know what I'm saying?
34:38Like, I imagine that it could be a lot smaller.
34:42That we are still here, but we have what we need.
34:46Are we in the business of more Linkin Park?
34:49Is it, yeah.
34:50Is it just a different thing now?
34:52It's very understandable
34:53why you would ask yourself that question
34:54because it brings up an enormous amount
34:56of imagery and thrash and things.
34:59And the what-ifs, the what-woulds.
35:01We were all feeling the what-ifs.
35:03There was a huge leap of faith that we had to say,
35:06like, I think she's the one.
35:08Like, I think she's.
35:09Yeah.
35:10There was a moment, Mike was working with Emily
35:13and you've heard her voice.
35:14Sounds amazing.
35:15Yeah.
35:15But there was a moment,
35:16it was the first time Mike asked her to scream.
35:19And that, for me, that did it.
35:20I was like, okay, this is.
35:24Let's have a conversation.
35:25Your scream is super unique because you're screaming
35:27and I didn't even realize that you started screaming.
35:29It's the craziest thing.
35:30Like, there's a lot of dynamic shift
35:32when people choose to go from singing to screaming.
35:34It's like, that's very much by design.
35:36Sometimes I feel that yours is just like this.
35:37It's like a wave.
35:38It's like a very, it's like a crest of a wave.
35:41It's like, I'm singing really pure
35:42and then all of a sudden I'm screaming.
35:43But it's like, I don't feel that's such a hot dynamic shift.
35:46We even like soloed it
35:48and like there were different takes, right?
35:50And we soloed the takes and we're listening through
35:52and we're like, it sounds like there's effects on the vocal.
35:54That's what I mean.
35:55It sounds like there's like a bit crusher
35:56or distortion on the vocal.
35:58There's nothing on it.
35:59It just sounds that way.
36:00Yeah, yeah.
36:00It's really, yeah, it's really unique.
36:02At that point, we were like,
36:04by the way, get used to this
36:05because this, the timeline is all over the show.
36:07So if you want quick and easy answers here, forget about it.
36:10What your feelings, what I'm feeling,
36:11we're all feeling the same thing.
36:12Carry on.
36:14We're in my studio.
36:17We've been working on stuff off and on for weeks or months.
36:22And at a certain point, it's like,
36:24we keep inviting Emily and Colin back.
36:27We keep just, it's, oh, that was good.
36:28Like, let's do it again.
36:29We did it again.
36:30That was good too.
36:31And it gets better and better and better.
36:33And we had some songs and we realized,
36:36I think, I think we should like,
36:39this is me speaking.
36:40This is everybody speaking.
36:41Like, I think she's the singer.
36:43Like, is that, am I crazy?
36:45And the other guy's like, no, I feel that too.
36:48As that was happening,
36:49like we had a desire to like make things loud.
36:54Yeah.
36:55The vocal felt right.
36:57And so that inspired more heavy songs.
37:00And the heavy songs brought that out more.
37:02And it was just back and forth.
37:03What a beautiful, beautiful process
37:05to be able to allow yourself the space
37:06to come to a singular moment
37:08when you have to actually commit.
37:11So we had to verbalize that.
37:13Yeah. And we said to her.
37:15So that's the point when I was like, hey.
37:17Holy shit.
37:18And by no means up to that point,
37:20had you allowed any potential or any hopes
37:23or any other reality settle in?
37:26I mean, it was a lot of feeling.
37:27There was a lot of,
37:30I definitely didn't want to go there,
37:32you know, and be like,
37:34oh, I'm the singer or I could be the singer.
37:37Or it was just like,
37:41what is good for this band as a fan?
37:46What would be the ideal voice or energy?
37:50Or what is that fit?
37:52I took myself out of the equation
37:56and I just looked at it as like,
37:59what could be a good fit?
38:00Yeah. You know?
38:02And I held on to that question for a bit
38:04as I was going in and singing and stuff.
38:06And then it would, you know, there was,
38:09and that's when the thoughts would trickle,
38:11you know, being like.
38:13Yeah.
38:14I mean, this would be really fun.
38:17I mean, this is, this could work.
38:19And then it's like, oh my God, holy shit.
38:21You know, like when you start to like
38:23have that moment, it's like, whoa.
38:26Can I ask you a question?
38:27And I really love you to take it
38:28in the intention of which it's meant,
38:30which is really, really genuine and honest.
38:32You know, does Chester into your mind
38:34in moments like this?
38:35Do you think about when you're trying
38:36to sing these songs and do what's right
38:37for the band?
38:38Like, if so, how does,
38:41how does he manifest in this?
38:44In your thoughts and your feelings?
38:45Well, when I first listened to Linkin Park,
38:50like a hybrid theory was like my favorite album.
38:56And I was starting bands at the time.
38:58I was in a band.
38:59And that was the moment where I was like,
39:02I want to sing and scream.
39:05You know, one step closer.
39:06I was like, I could do that.
39:08You know, and at the time
39:09I wasn't even a good singer.
39:10I was a guitar player in a band, you know?
39:12And I just loved being in a band.
39:13And I was like, I could do that.
39:15So of course, you know, it gets to this point
39:17and just being like, this is crazy.
39:20You know, in that fact where it's like,
39:23I would have never imagined, you know?
39:27So there's definitely that.
39:29And obviously in the side of like,
39:32the feelings and the emotions of it,
39:34like I would love to do him proud, you know?
39:38As of this conversation,
39:39you've taken a different stage yesterday
39:42and presented, this is where the timeline
39:44gets even weirder,
39:45because we're a ways away from that.
39:48This is the arena set up.
39:50This conversation will happen the day
39:52after you've played your first show.
39:54And I've seen the set list.
39:56Now everyone's heard it.
39:57You know, there's only one new song,
39:58I think, on the set list.
40:00So the first time you sang Chester's songs,
40:04because you really became a part of this band
40:06singing your songs, super unique.
40:10Not even probably thinking,
40:11because there isn't a Linkin Park.
40:13What would it sound like if I sang Paper Cuts?
40:15It's the weirdest way to start a new band.
40:17Yeah.
40:19Like we were literally like writing a new album,
40:21writing new songs,
40:23figuring out the band at the same time.
40:25And then you add on to the kind of the,
40:27at some point, maybe not the end of it,
40:29but you add on later.
40:31Oh, and there's all this other great stuff
40:33that we love that we wrote.
40:34But Colin and I both have like a pretty good imagination
40:38for what something is going to sound like.
40:40Like that's when we're working on a thing, right?
40:42It's like, oh, this part could use a sound like this.
40:44It's in our head.
40:45We know what it is and then we have to make it.
40:47Similarly, I could hear her sing and I go,
40:49I know what she's going to sound like on Crawling.
40:52I think I know what she's going to sound like on Faint.
40:57And then we started doing it.
40:58You remember we sat and was it just like an acoustic?
41:04You mean in your studio?
41:05Yeah.
41:05Oh, wait, no, you've done your piano.
41:07That's right.
41:08Because we were changing the keys to get into your range.
41:11And then I would do this to scream to cover my scream.
41:13She was screaming into like a pillow or into her shirt
41:16so that it wasn't so loud.
41:17Because it was so quiet and I was like,
41:18I think I could do it.
41:18Sitting this far apart.
41:21Yeah.
41:22It sounds great.
41:23No, no, no, this is good.
41:24I mean, to some degree, I can imagine.
41:25And I mean this well as a little anticlimactic
41:28because you waited your whole life to probably sing those songs
41:32and really let it go as a fan,
41:35not under the circumstances that they're in.
41:38Probably with Chester.
41:40Probably one day to get on stage with Chester at a festival
41:42and do it with him, right?
41:43So that moment when you actually get to really sing that song,
41:47what did that feel like?
41:47When you got to sing a Linkin Park song that Chester sang
41:50and that inspired you to be a singer in the first place?
41:53Colin and I, we had to go in and we spent a lot of time together
41:58and going through the songs and really trying to make them our own.
42:05That was a process of, especially the older songs
42:09that are just embedded.
42:13And it's never a thought where it's like,
42:15I need to make the song my own, right?
42:18So there's a lot of deconstruction in that way
42:21where it's like, how do I make this song have the same impact
42:27as much as possible with my voice?
42:30So I had to find the meaning in the song again in a different way.
42:36And that was fun and challenging.
42:38Some of the songs came way quicker than others.
42:42But I definitely noticed that the newer songs like Lost,
42:45that was so easy for me.
42:47And I thought it would be like,
42:48we went through it like a few times and I just like had it.
42:51And the other ones, for some reason,
42:52even though I've listened to them so many, so many, so many times.
42:57Well, maybe you just subconsciously still connected to them as a fan.
43:00Exactly.
43:00It's really hard to figure out how you can actually bring them to life to your point.
43:04Exactly.
43:05You know, keep them authentic, but also be you.
43:08Yes.
43:09Because you got to do two authentics here.
43:10Yes.
43:11You got to do right by the song, but you got to do right by you.
43:13Otherwise, everyone's going to be like,
43:14well, this is just a bar room so we get up and have a go.
43:16Exactly.
43:17I don't know if I said this to anyone out loud.
43:21I really felt like when I met you in person,
43:26like you walked into the room at East West.
43:30I felt like that was the clearest spark where I was like,
43:34oh yeah, I get it.
43:36Like this is right.
43:37Even before really hearing you on anything and really thinking about it,
43:43just like when you walked into the room, your energy,
43:46I was like, that's spectacular.
43:50Like that feels right.
43:52And then I think your voice, the way you interpret things,
43:57it's all just like cohesive to me in terms of who you are.
44:00And you said authentic.
44:02And I think the greatest opportunity for Emily is just to be Emily.
44:09And Emily's energy makes sense with Linkin Park.
44:13It's the exact right feeling.
44:15Because there were even experiments that I had heard with amazing singers
44:19that had come in and worked on stuff,
44:21some of whom I really loved their voices.
44:24And when I heard it, I was like, that sounds cool.
44:26It doesn't sound like this band.
44:28And everything I've seen you bring to the table
44:33feels naturally like this band.
44:36And even to your questions about Chester,
44:38like Chester's one of a kind,
44:40like Chester did his thing like no one else could do it.
44:43And I think like what's amazing is like Emily,
44:46just being Emily works in Linkin Park.
44:50Can I give you the perspective from a fan?
44:52When I press play on the album, damn, I shouldn't have let that out.
44:56I'm going to get bombarded now, way too late.
44:59When I press play on the album.
45:00Who gave you the album?
45:04I can talk about Emptiness Machine.
45:05Yes, you can.
45:08And in relation to the album, it was the first thing I heard.
45:12And it was...
45:14I'm walking so carefully here.
45:16It was...
45:18It blew me away because obviously you introduced...
45:19People who heard it live know, you start the song
45:23and you lay out the store.
45:25And it's like, you know me.
45:27You think you know me, this is what the song's about,
45:29but you don't actually know me, but you know what I sound like.
45:32So let me just explain to you what the relationship actually is.
45:36And then when you start singing for the first time,
45:39yeah, I get goosebumps thinking about it
45:41because it sounded so much like the band.
45:44And it didn't sound like Chester,
45:46but it didn't sound unlike Chester's spirit,
45:50if that makes sense, you know?
45:52So it was such a tricky...
45:55For my ear, I've got, I don't know, audio baggage.
46:01Like I just...
46:02There's a lot when I'm processing things in general,
46:05I'm thinking a lot.
46:07When I'm processing our music, I'm thinking more.
46:10And like Brad said, we did a lot of sessions
46:13with a lot of people.
46:15They weren't tryouts, they were just sessions.
46:19And certainly when I started to hear
46:24Emily's voice on things, my brain...
46:28It was like the first time that my brain would accept it
46:31as a Linkin Park song, you know what I mean?
46:34When it was just my voice on the song, I could accept it.
46:37We put other people in the songs.
46:40This, that...
46:42Having Emily's voice on it over and over again,
46:46it went, yeah, that feels good.
46:47Yeah, that feels good.
46:48And I'm glad that you had that feeling
46:51because I think Emptiness Machine...
46:54I think a lot of us, when we arranged it
46:57the way it's currently arranged,
46:58like when we got to that version of the song,
47:00it was pretty obvious to us
47:01that it was a good thing to lead with.
47:03Well, it also feels like it's a very important
47:06closing of the loop from some of the feelings
47:08you were all going through seven years ago
47:11and that you so eloquently put on,
47:12as we mentioned before, Place to Start,
47:14which is the idea of wanting to find a place to start
47:17and wanting a place to belong.
47:19And really what this is about
47:20is finding that place to belong again, right?
47:22That reason to want to hang out again,
47:24to want to create again, to have the fun again,
47:26to do it again.
47:28That's how the song ends.
47:29It begins as a throwdown.
47:32Very clear throwdown.
47:33And I'm not going to say that it's a challenge
47:34to anyone or any group of people specifically,
47:37but to me, it's very clear that there's a big distance
47:40between what people think and what you want to do.
47:45I don't want to be dragged down by expectation.
47:47And so it's hard not to make a connection
47:48to some degree between what we've talked about
47:51a little bit so far,
47:51which is this idea of how things are going to be received
47:55and getting ahead of it a little bit.
47:57I don't know if that was conscious or subconscious,
47:58but I definitely heard the gauntlet thing throw down
48:01that I'm not going to sit around and be judged anymore.
48:03That's an interesting take on it.
48:05I don't think that's exactly what I meant,
48:07but I mean, you know,
48:08the listener's perception of the lyrics is always their own
48:11and yours are valid.
48:13However it came up of your subconscious,
48:15it feels like it's a very clean break.
48:18You talked about the catharsis having already happened
48:21and that makes total sense.
48:22Seven years is time.
48:25But there's still some catharsis out there
48:26for people who are going to try to figure out,
48:28okay, I love this band.
48:30What is Linkin Park in 2024 with Colin and Emily
48:33and new music, not just shows,
48:35we're not just doing festivals.
48:36I'll decide in a park somewhere.
48:38No, no, no.
48:39We got to see this last night
48:40and we got to hear a new song
48:41and there's a new album.
48:42Can we get the album artwork up actually on the screen?
48:44This is a cool trick.
48:46There it is.
48:48There we go.
48:49That's why we want to do it.
48:52That's cool, right?
48:54That's really cool.
48:55That's sick.
48:56Yeah.
48:56It's not CGI.
48:58That's a photo.
48:59So did you put it in between the glass?
49:01It is a, I don't know.
49:03I'm not technical enough with photography.
49:05It looks like they would have had to have created,
49:07put the liquid in between two sheets of glass
49:08or something to create that spread.
49:10That's not how it was made.
49:14It's because it's natural,
49:16like liquids and colors and photography.
49:19You couldn't, you can't make it again.
49:23This is just a moment in time, right?
49:25It feels simultaneously like really small,
49:29like microscopic
49:30and also galactic, like very big.
49:34I think our band is big and small at the same time.
49:38To me, it screams possibility,
49:41which encapsulates what Mike is saying.
49:43It sums up the From Zero concept
49:46and it's kind of like, okay, it looks cool,
49:49but it's like, where do we go from here?
49:52Yeah, it's an organism
49:53and you want to see where it goes, right?
49:54You want to see what it builds from.
49:56We're all seeing this now.
49:57I guess you hadn't seen it.
49:59And we're meeting new people
50:01and we've got Linkin Park back in our lives.
50:03Let's talk to the fans.
50:04I would just love to know
50:05what you would like the fans to know
50:08from a relationship point of view,
50:09because this is a relationship
50:10that you've built over a long period of time.
50:14And those relationships are what keep everybody
50:17in what we love.
50:18You get to do what you love, we get to love it.
50:21I've been thinking about that a lot.
50:23I've been thinking about the process
50:26that we've gone through,
50:27the steps that we've come to get here.
50:29We've talked about it in the past
50:30that anytime you release a new album,
50:32you're kind of popping up in a new location
50:34and then the fans have to try to catch up.
50:38So we might've gone on a two-year journey
50:40or in this case, a seven-year journey
50:43or whatever that is.
50:43And then for us, we've walked that whole path.
50:47And so for us, it feels, this is where we're at
50:50and it makes sense to us and this is why,
50:52but to somebody else, you've disappeared
50:55and been underground for forever.
50:56And then now here you are.
50:57So there's a big amount of life
51:01that's been lived on our end
51:02and on the fans' bases end.
51:05And I think in the process of all that,
51:07I am so excited to share this whole thing
51:12with them again.
51:13As a musician, my favorite thing
51:15is that interaction and that connection
51:17with your audience.
51:18I love this connection first and foremost,
51:21but then I love to go share it.
51:23But I also have permission for our fan base
51:26to form their own opinion.
51:28It's okay for them to land wherever they land on it.
51:32Obviously, we all, I would speak for all of us,
51:34we want them to be in the journey
51:36where it's an open arms event
51:38where we're like, hell yeah, come on in
51:40because we're having a great time
51:41and this is an awesome place to be.
51:44But respectfully, I know it's a lot.
51:47I know a lot's gone down.
51:49I know there's a lot of feelings
51:51and everything.
51:52Different people process that differently.
51:55Even amongst the six of us,
51:56we've processed things differently.
51:58I want to give space and respect to that
52:00and just have an open invite.
52:03That was so beautifully said,
52:04I have to say, honestly, as a fan,
52:06I really feel that.
52:08I think we have a right to listen
52:09and like whatever we want.
52:10And I think we'd love to be able to control that.
52:12All musicians and I would love our art to be heard
52:13and perceived the way that we intend it.
52:16That is the risk.
52:17It's the risk when you dedicate your life to it.
52:20Dedicate your life to it.
52:21On day one as a kid,
52:23not enough emphasis is placed on,
52:25and understandably so,
52:26because there are people putting their lives at risk
52:28to do things to make the world better genuinely.
52:31But I do put art and magic as magic up there.
52:35It can save people's lives.
52:37It can make life better.
52:38It can mend and heal and create real experience.
52:42And when you commit yourself at a young age to do that
52:44and you step out of the framework
52:46and you back yourself,
52:48that is a form of courage
52:49whether anyone wants to call it that or not.
52:51And that is what's going on here.
52:53It is a courageous step you've all taken
52:56to continue and to make music and to reconnect.
52:59You're going to make me cry.
53:00Stop you guys.
53:01So nice.
53:03And I feel like there's a million different ways
53:06people can do that.
53:07One of them is to kind of put on the front of like,
53:09I don't give a fuck what anybody thinks.
53:11This is my thing, whatever.
53:13You can do that.
53:13And people take that space and that's sincerely
53:17you know, whatever their path is,
53:19if that's what it is, that it is what it is.
53:21But there's also a space where you can say,
53:25and this is kind of where I feel like I'm coming from.
53:27And I think all of us that sincerely we believe in this.
53:32We love it.
53:32And we hope you do too.
53:34And if you don't, like, I don't think music's competitive.
53:37I think of it as like food.
53:39If I love mustard and geek out on it
53:42and then you don't love mustard,
53:43like we can still be friends.
53:45It's not a contest.
53:46There's a guy who sold a hundred million albums.
53:48It's pretty easy to fucking not be competitive
53:52when you're on top, baby.
53:53That part's competitive.
53:55But the actual art is not.
53:57He actually wasn't doing a metaphor or an analogy.
54:00Like this dude won't stop talking about mustard.
54:03And it's so annoying.
54:04This is a great pivot point where...
54:06And I really just don't relate.
54:08Can I sell you some mustard soon?
54:09I don't relate to his mustard collection.
54:11Let's just block him out because I'm a mustard fan.
54:13When he was talking about,
54:14oh, we hung out for six hours
54:16and we didn't make anything.
54:17Isn't that cool?
54:19This is what he's talking about.
54:20Yeah, basically.
54:21It's just him going, can we go to work?
54:23What we made is this.
54:24Can we go to work?
54:25It sounds really like prophetic when you're like,
54:27we sat there for six hours.
54:29We didn't make anything.
54:30These dudes were literally talking about mustard.
54:32Yeah, but that's where it started.
54:33Maybe not mustard, but that's where it started.
54:36And you were right.
54:37You made a really important point very early on.
54:39Joe, you made the point that when it got very big,
54:42it's easy sometimes for that to just get overwhelmed
54:46or overshadowed by the day-to-day experience
54:50of just keeping going.
54:52Just keep going.
54:53I mean, you didn't see it on the screen,
54:55but that's for the same reason that you're talking about
54:57is why the album cover was almost yellow.
55:01Back to mustard.
55:02I tried.
55:03I tried.
55:04And also from zero sounded better than almost yellow.
55:07I don't know if there's any coming back from this.
55:09So, I mean, we busted up.
55:10You know what?
55:11You know everybody well enough at this point.
55:13It goes off, it goes off.
55:14It stays there.
55:15It stays, it's not coming back.
55:16It doesn't go in reverse.
55:17There's no reverse here.
55:18I'm just grateful I got like some real emotion,
55:20some genuine answers out of here,
55:22especially out of this guy right here.
55:23You're lucky this didn't happen an hour ago.
55:25That's what I'm saying.
55:26I feel like I just need to like take what I got.
55:28If you want the pivot back to sincerity,
55:30I think that-
55:31Is it, can you even pivot back to sincerity?
55:34Brad can do it.
55:35If you have like three mustards.
55:37Yes.
55:39This is the Linkin Park I met on day one.
55:42I'm not even kidding.
55:43I still remember the first time we met you at BBC.
55:47Yeah.
55:48At the studios in London.
55:49XFM.
55:50And you early on from the jump stood out to me
55:54as somebody who not only was like fun to talk to,
55:57but was sincerely invested.
55:59And even if I thought you may have started
56:01some gnarly rumors about us.
56:02I swear it wasn't me, man.
56:03I still loved you.
56:04I love you too.
56:05And so as a full circle moment.
56:08Yeah.
56:09It's cool, right?
56:09Every time I feel like we hang out,
56:11it's a bit of a full circle moment
56:12because there's like a new thing happening.
56:14But this is great.
56:17It's cool, man.
56:18And it's really great to see you and be with you.
56:21And thank you for inviting us to be here.
56:22You know, I'm glad we ended on mustard
56:25because that's kind of how it started.
56:28I remember you went there and you went there.
56:30You guys were fans.
56:32I remember you walked into the building
56:34and I saw you walking down the corridor toward me.
56:37And the way the studio was set up
56:38is I could see the guests walking all the way from the lift
56:41at the other end of the floor all the way down.
56:43So you could tell if someone was in a good mood or in a bad mood,
56:45what their energy was like.
56:46Are they in rockstar mode?
56:48Are they happy with their team?
56:49If they come up with a bad interview?
56:51I got real good at reading the room pretty quick
56:52because you had 15 seconds to figure out what was going on.
56:55And I remember you turned the corner
56:59looking like the most American band
57:00I've ever seen in my life.
57:01It was just DC shoes.
57:03Just Calabasas.
57:04It was just straight Calabasas.
57:06It was everyone had a different hair color.
57:08And it was just, it was brilliant.
57:10And I remember how you were all laughing
57:13in equal measure at each other.
57:15You were all like just,
57:18it was like, oh, these guys are so stoked.
57:22They're in London for the first time as a band.
57:24They're about to play King's College.
57:26The song's on radio and you seem so happy.
57:29And I knew your story.
57:30I knew Chester was a late comer to the band.
57:34My eyes were like, okay, is he comfortable?
57:37Are they comfortable together?
57:39Not unlike how it was today.
57:43And yeah, it was really comfortable then
57:46and it's really comfortable now.
57:47And you're still taking the piss and I love it.
57:49I'm glad you got back to that, right?
57:52I'm glad you got back to that.
57:54We'll talk around the album
57:55because I have so much to talk about on this album.
57:58And I can't say nothing
57:59because you guys hold the keys to the kingdom.
58:04So I'm hoping, so fucking I am
58:08Falling for the promise of the emptiness machine
58:13The emptiness machine