Ram Krishnan, CEO of PepsiCo North America, has been with the company for over 18 years, starting his journey at the Detroit office and moving through leadership roles across Dallas, Shanghai, and New York. In a conversation with Fortune, Krishnan shares insights on leadership, career longevity, and what it takes to elevate your professional growth to the next level.
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00:00Everyone worries about getting the next job, or the next promotion.
00:04You should worry about how to do the next job before you get the job.
00:08That was the best piece of career advice I ever got.
00:11When you get the next job, people don't realize the clock starts right then and there, right?
00:17At that point, you own the past, the present, and the future.
00:24This is a series where we're looking at exploring the strategies and the mindsets of elite athletes
00:31and executive professionals to try to draw parallels between them and see what we can
00:36learn from each discipline.
00:40We want to drive people to excellence, both on the field, in the boardroom, or whatever
00:44your specialism is.
00:46You've had a fantastic career across General Motors and Cadillac, and I think you've done
00:52over 18 years with PepsiCo.
00:54You've been a leader in many different divisions.
00:58You've traveled from Shanghai to New York now.
01:02I think you started in Detroit, went to Dallas.
01:07That's, to an outsider, a very successful career and a very exciting career.
01:13What would you say is your proudest achievement throughout that, or in life?
01:19Yeah, that's a great question.
01:22If I were to reflect back, after many years of going through this career, I came up with
01:28a purpose statement, right?
01:30What motivates me?
01:32For me, what motivates me is I aspire to learn, solve complex problems, transform a business,
01:41inspire talent through authentic leadership, leave a legacy.
01:46There are a couple of instances in my career when I checked all those boxes, but not every
01:51year.
01:52I think, for me, an achievement is when all of those things line up, and you have an opportunity
01:58to actually leave a legacy and an impact.
02:01I think that's how I would look at it.
02:05I've had a couple of moments like that.
02:07Any specific one?
02:10I would say the assignment in Asia Pacific, when I was based out of Shanghai, was a fantastic
02:20opportunity because, by the time we got done as a team, it was a complex problem because
02:27the growth had moved from a portion of China, which was east and south, to much more central
02:33and west.
02:34You had to figure out how do you redo the go-to-market, how do you redo the manufacturing
02:38footprint.
02:40What is your ambition?
02:41Because we had to reset our ambition because, initially, we were like, oh, we're growing
02:45as fast as a multinational.
02:47Well, are you growing as fast as a local Chinese manufacturer?
02:52And then talent.
02:53Historically, we've been very much an expat-managed talent force.
02:58By the time we left, it was managed by the local talent.
03:02And then you think about the legacy and impact.
03:05You have amazing talent who are running that portion of the business.
03:09The business has accelerated, and it's done so after whatever, five, eight years since
03:15I've left.
03:16So I think that, to me, checks out all the boxes that I talked about.
03:19It's very impressive.
03:20So yeah.
03:21So a couple of instances of having done that.
03:23And when was the first time you actually, personally, considered yourself a success,
03:26whether that's education, or professional, or home, or whatever it is?
03:32I don't know.
03:33You know, success, it's kind of an interesting word.
03:37I personally have, you know, I got a healthy amount of discontent.
03:43I don't think I look back on past achievements and reflect on it too much.
03:50I think, for me, what motivates me is, hey, it's about the kind of the next challenge,
03:58the next learning.
04:00Maybe one of these days, I'll call it a day, and retire, and reflect.
04:06But I don't know.
04:07In fact, I would say I'm still trying to get better every day.
04:10So I don't know whether I would say there's one thing I've said.
04:14Yeah.
04:15Do you think people should celebrate the success more?
04:17Do you think people should take those moments?
04:19I do get advice from my wife, especially, to say that you need to.
04:23I don't know.
04:24I personally feel if you do that, I just feel your motivation changes, right?
04:33I don't know whether you're hungry enough, whether you think you've achieved the peak
04:40of what you're trying to do.
04:42So personally, it worries me when you spend too much time celebrating kind of your achievements,
04:51or rather, look forward.
04:54In fact, if you think about the definition of achievement, it's always interesting.
04:58Definition of achievement is you've completed a task.
05:01And when you've completed a task, basically, you get the freedom to kind of move on to
05:05the next step, and you start the next task.
05:08That's kind of how at least I've looked at it.
05:10Yeah.
05:11Yeah.
05:12Fair enough.
05:13Everyone's got their own definition and their own views.
05:14So it's interesting to hear.
05:17And when you are trying to achieve your goals and reach those benchmarks, what are your
05:24key non-negotiable behaviors that you adopt, that you take into those tasks?
05:32You know, I think maybe a couple of things that have sold me well.
05:37One is being in the moment, which is an easy thing to be said, but done, meaning, for example,
05:44I don't multitask.
05:46When I'm in a meeting, even if it's like I just finished a whole day of meetings, I don't
05:51multitask.
05:52I'm in the moment.
05:53When I'm in a conversation, I'm not thinking about the next thing I'm going to do.
05:57I'm talking to the person listening.
06:00So I think that is probably one.
06:02The second thing is consistency.
06:06This notion of, you know, it's tough, like, as executives, you go through a bunch of meetings
06:11throughout the day.
06:13How consistent are you in all of those meetings?
06:15I'm one of those people who have trained myself that every time there's a meeting and there's
06:19a pre-read, I've actually gone through it, formed a hypothesis.
06:23I come in for an engaged dialogue.
06:27To do that consistently every single meeting, I think that's important.
06:31And also consistently on how you interact with people, just to make sure, because, you
06:38know, for them, that might be the only interaction they have with you for the whole year, is
06:42how you're consistent.
06:44Third is authenticity, right?
06:46Like, I think really being true to yourself on who you are as a leader, and that's how
06:52you deal with people.
06:53And I think people appreciate that, like, how are you an authentic leader?
06:56And do you have any habits or rituals or anchors?
06:59I think a lot of people refer to them as that keep you going and keep that consistency
07:06or that help you keep those non-negotiable behaviors flowing.
07:10Yeah.
07:11No, a couple of them.
07:13And I mean, these are all things that you develop over the years, right?
07:17I don't think I started my career with these three or four things.
07:20No, no, no.
07:21But if someone could start their career with those, it could skip in their head 10 years
07:24or something.
07:25Yeah.
07:27Fourth, making sure you're intentional about how you use your time.
07:32I think that's probably the biggest advice I would give people when they're starting
07:35off their career.
07:37I, for an example, color code my time management, right?
07:42So I have four or five buckets about how I manage time.
07:47Every other month, we audit and see how am I spending my time, and do I need to course
07:53correct?
07:55That's the intentional thing, because I remember reading, I think the average human lifespan
08:00is 4,000 weeks.
08:02So I think since then, I've been super intentional about how I manage time.
08:06So I think that's one.
08:09Second is, how are you deliberate about learning?
08:15It's one of those things that always falls to the wayside, right?
08:19Busy, life gets to you, but very deliberate.
08:22I usually, by Christmas time, I plan on, what is it, there are a couple of topics I'm going
08:27to learn about the next year.
08:30And again, I would qualify that this is not surface learning, because you're on a device,
08:34you get used to, exposed to so many different topics.
08:37No, it's kind of deep learning, like I pick these two topics, and I'm doing that for a
08:42stretch of 12 weeks, and that's all I'm doing.
08:45So I think be intentional about learning.
08:47Third is reflection.
08:52At least by nature, I'm an introvert, so I write.
08:58It helps me do two things, one, when I write, I reflect, two, it also makes me intentional
09:04about learning, because I'm usually researching about a topic when I write.
09:08So I think that helps.
09:11So I think those would be, maybe the last one is this notion of after-action review,
09:19which is like, hey, you did something, did it work, not work, because sometimes you go
09:23on to the next thing without being deliberate about what didn't work.
09:27I think it came from the US Army, and that served me well, is doing a teardown of what
09:33worked, what didn't work, what are we going to do different?
09:37So maybe those would be the ones.
09:39The time is a fascinating one, because when you break it down, like you said, into a lifespan,
09:46it starts getting a little probably scary.
09:49Can you tell us what your color codes are?
09:51Yeah, no, happy to.
09:52So I have five buckets.
09:54One is basically running the business, which is delivering day-to-day results.
10:00The second is people and culture, how much time am I spending in that.
10:05Third is long-term strategy, and that's kind of the business side of it.
10:10Fourth is learning.
10:11As I said, you've got to be deliberate about it.
10:15And fifth, which is something that's come with age and maturity, is relationship.
10:20Really investing, whether it's friends or family, being purposeful, because you don't
10:25prioritize that.
10:26That gets away.
10:27You wake up.
10:28So those would be kind of the five buckets that I color code.
10:31And there's a pie chart that I look at, engineered by trade.
10:34So then I audit, and we course correct.
10:38That's really interesting.
10:39And is it even split, or do you aim for an even split?
10:42No, because it depends on the life stage of that particular business cycle or your personal
10:50life stage.
10:51I don't think you're going to get to a perfect 20-20-20%.
10:54I think what you want to be is aware of, oh, I didn't realize the last couple of months
10:59is how I spent my time.
11:01Do I need to course correct?
11:02So it's more about, by the end of the year, how do you hopefully get to a healthy balance,
11:08versus, hey, in a given period of time, you're trying to split it up even.
11:12It depends on the business rhythm and everything else going on.
11:16Now I'm sure throughout your career, you've worked many places, worn many hats.
11:23Have you ever had a mentor specifically that has helped you or that you've looked up to
11:27and taken advice from?
11:28Totally.
11:29I personally believe what drives one's success is having mentors throughout their career.
11:36I have been incredibly blessed to have had mentors, I think, almost through my entire
11:43all the different stages of career.
11:46And by the way, this is one learning I would share.
11:48I remember when I first got started, I used to think, well, mentors are when you are initially
11:53learning and growing your career.
11:56I would actually argue you actually need more mentors the higher up you go up in the organization,
12:02because mentors provide you with perspective, because you always find the higher you are
12:06on the top, the bad news travels fast, and you're the last person to get to know.
12:11So you want to have perspective coming from wisdom of people who have been there, done that.
12:17Everyone likes to think, I'm the first one doing a certain task.
12:20The truth is that many people before you have done it, and there's so much you can learn
12:25getting their perspective, and also sharing how you're thinking about solving a problem
12:31and how they would approach it.
12:33So no, for a fact, personally, I think I'm here today because of some amazing mentors
12:38I've had throughout my career.
12:41I'm sure you've had a lot of great advice, but can you think of the best advice or advice
12:47that has really stood out to you that you still keep with you to this day?
12:51I think the best advice I ever got was, I remember someone saying, everyone worries
12:58about getting the next job or the next promotion.
13:03You should worry about how to do the next job before you get the job.
13:06That was the best piece of career advice I ever got, because for me, it's interesting,
13:13when you get the next job, people don't realize the clock starts right then and there.
13:19At that point, you own the past, the present, and the future.
13:22You're not like, oh, the other guy did this, the other person did this.
13:25So I think, and imagine, and if you actually are a little more deliberate thinking about
13:33that next role, how you would do it, learning from people who are doing it now, what do
13:37they do well, what do they not do well, it's such an incredible opportunity, and you just
13:43don't have the time to reflect when you're in the role.
13:48So I thought that was probably the best.
13:50And also, that was the best piece of advice for me, because one thing, I think it reframed
13:56how I approach roles.
13:58I approach roles as, this is my last job.
14:01This is my last job at the company.
14:04It's not about using this job to get to the next job.
14:07It is about this job, and what am I going to do there?
14:12That's good advice.
14:13Yeah.
14:14So in terms of leadership, what do you consider the most successful traits of good leaders,
14:20either leaders that you work with or traits that you try to project yourself?
14:26What are the most successful ones for leadership, do you think?
14:29I would tell you two things, right?
14:31I've learned, one, personally, I would say it's self-awareness and humility gives you
14:38the right to lead people, and they're both equally important.
14:42Self-awareness, really being aware of what is your strength, and more importantly, what's
14:46your opportunity.
14:47How are you going to complement that with team members who could bring their strengths
14:51to it?
14:52And also being self-aware about what your perception of self is, and how do people perceive
15:00you?
15:01Sometimes there's a gap, right?
15:02So I think the self-awareness is a big, big area, and the other thing is this humility.
15:07I mean, it's such an understated thing, but the fact of the matter is when you're humble,
15:12you listen, you learn, you reflect, and then you act.
15:16I think those two things are probably, in all of the best leaders I've seen, variations
15:21of those two qualities, and that's something I aspire for.
15:26And has anyone's career particularly inspired you in your own journey?
15:30Not necessarily just within Pepsi, but in the wider industry, or someone outside of
15:35your industry, perhaps, that you've looked at and thought, you know, that's the kind
15:38of executive, or the kind of leader that I want to be?
15:43Well, you know, first, I've been incredibly blessed growing up here in PepsiCo.
15:49It's known as an academic leadership company, and we've created amazing leaders.
15:56You know, I personally don't look at somebody's career and say, hey, that's something I want
16:00to emulate.
16:02I personally look for, hey, are there qualities or impact this person has driven that I aspire
16:14for?
16:15And this could be impact within the context of, you know, the company that they work at,
16:22but it could be impact within the broader ecosystem of an industry, or, you know, just
16:29personal impact on causes of, you know, things.
16:33So I don't know whether I always, because, you know, the other thing you'll find managing
16:41a career, and I think we started talking about this when you made a reference to one of my
16:45friends.
16:46You can plan everything, right, but a career, there's a lot of things that happens by chance.
16:52So I'm not sure you can say, hey, that's a career I want to emulate, right?
16:58So I would rather focus on what is it about that particular person that left a legacy
17:05and impact that I would want to emulate.
17:08You know, you don't get as high as you've done and been as successful as you've been
17:12without making mistakes, and that's something that everyone has to deal with, you know,
17:17regardless of their rank or how long they've been doing their job.
17:22How do you deal with mistakes?
17:24Because there's something, you know, as I say, it happens to everyone.
17:27How do you deal with them?
17:28How do you move past them?
17:30You know, as you said, Massimo, I think for you to learn and grow, you do need to make
17:37some mistakes.
17:40And also, one of the things I'm a big believer, especially when you're trying to make transformative
17:45moves, is to experiment.
17:48And by definition, you're going to make mistakes when you experiment.
17:53One of the things you have to, I've learned at least, is being what I call this notion
17:59of purposeful experimentation, meaning I have a clear objective.
18:03If the experiment is a success, I know how to scale it.
18:07If it were to fail, I know exactly how I'm going to apply it.
18:10So I think that's one notion.
18:13The second thing I think I talked about before, which is this notion of after-action review,
18:18which is like, hey, it didn't work.
18:21Why did it not work?
18:22What is it that I can learn from that we would apply the next time around?
18:29I mean, outside of that, I think on the mistake, the biggest thing is, I mean, one is obviously
18:34being self-critical and being objective about judging the mistake you made, but then also
18:40being incredibly generous and empathetic with the team, because that's the part that you
18:45have to balance, because if you don't reflect those qualities, then they're never going
18:51to experiment.
18:52They're going to just do what was done before, and hence will never transform.
18:57So it's one of those things that you have to balance out.
19:02And what do you feel matters way less than you thought it would?
19:07So when you were a younger man, what do you know now that matters way less than you anticipated
19:12it would?
19:13I would tell you job titles matter less.
19:16At the end of the day, you rent it for a while.
19:22They don't drive who you are as a person or your identity.
19:25I think that's probably, again, one of those learnings which comes with age and maturity.
19:30Also easy for a CEO to say, don't worry about it, guys.
19:35Yeah.
19:36No, but it's fair.
19:38And this is more of a philosophical one, but what one change could you make today that
19:44would have the most positive impact on your life going forward, either personally or professionally?
19:51You know, it's interesting.
19:55In most cases, I find your towering strength is always an area of opportunity, right?
20:00We all lean into it, right?
20:02For me, I think you mentioned it before, pausing to celebrate, enjoying the moment,
20:12I think would probably make me more of a contented person.
20:16And I think it also would reflect on other team members.
20:20I think for sure, I think that's something I need to work on.
20:25Second could be this ratio that I talked about with time management.
20:29As much as I try to balance that, you know, some years or not, it gets out of whack.
20:36And I wish I could be even more purposeful in managing that ratio.
20:41So those would probably be good changes to make.
20:46And they would definitely be positive, well, maybe, hopefully.
20:48Anyway, Ram, I think that's it.
20:50Thanks so much.
20:52Appreciate it.