JCPenney CEO Mark Rosen Says Fashion Is Core For The Company.
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00:00I was in one of our stores, I think it was in Ohio, and the store team will regret probably
00:07that they let me be alone for a moment in the store.
00:09I was walking to the back of the store, and a customer came up to me, and the customer
00:14said, do you work here?
00:15And I had my name badge on, so I said, yes I do, how can I help you?
00:19And he said, I'm going to a wedding this weekend, and I've never worn a bow tie before.
00:24And so can you tell me, how do I tie it, and what do I wear it with?
00:29And it's those kinds of fashion-free moments.
00:32Well luckily by that time, the store team had a panic that I was talking to a customer
00:37alone, and so the store manager came running up, and he helped, because I could have helped,
00:42but I think a much better service would come from the store manager.
00:48Welcome to Leadership Next, the podcast about the changing rules of business leadership.
00:53I'm Diane Brady.
00:55So Mark, I'm curious, of all the gin joints, if you can refer to a retailer like that,
01:03what was it that drew you to JCPenney?
01:06This was a retailer that had gone through bankruptcy, it emerged as a private company,
01:12you've worked at Levi Strauss, Walmart, what was the clarion call of this one for you?
01:18It's actually an interesting story, because I was actually at that point in my career
01:25looking at CEO opportunities, and somebody who I knew in search called me, and I was
01:32in New York, I was working at Levi's at the time, I was in New York visiting with our
01:35sales team in New York, and she texted me, and she said, I have an opportunity that you
01:41need to listen to, and I said, well, I'm going to have a minute later this afternoon, I'm
01:47going to be on my way to Kennedy, and she said, OK, well, are you on the 5 o'clock to
01:52San Francisco?
01:53I said, I am, and she replied, and she said that I am too.
01:58She said, we'll talk on the plane.
01:59So I always say that it was sort of destined and meant to be that we ended up on the same
02:06flight back from New York to San Francisco.
02:08She had been in New York meeting with the ownership team as they were looking for a
02:12new CEO.
02:14I had been there meeting with my Levi's sales team, and what I saw was this amazing
02:21opportunity to take what I believe is an iconic American brand, JCPenney, and you
02:26mentioned it earlier, I've spent my career working at iconic American brands, whether
02:31it's Walmart, whether it was Levi's or now JCPenney, and to take this iconic American
02:38brand that really, when you looked at it, had been for a period of time just not
02:44invested in and had really not delivered what the consumer needed, and to bring the
02:49brand back to relevance.
02:50And when I looked at the consumer, I saw a group of consumers who is really the core
02:59of America, and we say that our customers, America's diverse working families, and
03:03when I looked at it, it was that group of consumers that was looking for this place
03:07to shop where they didn't have to make the tradeoffs they have to make in their
03:10everyday life, where they didn't have to trade off between accessible fashion, a
03:16great shopping experience, and finding value.
03:19And I did a lot of research on the company.
03:21I did a lot of research on the brand, obviously on the financial position, which we
03:25can talk about later, which is a strong position, but also just looking at the brand
03:29and saying, how did consumers, what did they think about the brand?
03:33How did they feel about the brand?
03:34And this is really what attracted me is that everybody we talked to in that research
03:39before I took the job said, I got my first credit card at JCPenney.
03:46I bought my daughter's communion dress at JCPenney.
03:49I bought the first suit I wore to work at JCPenney.
03:52So everybody had a JCPenney story, but every conversation ended with, but I haven't
03:59been there lately.
04:00Well, I think that's interesting because so you went, basically it was late 2021.
04:07And let's go back to this iconic history.
04:10You know, I think in the late 70s, it was second to Sears as one of the largest
04:14retailers in the U.S., which is why it would be a place where you'd get your first
04:18credit card, where you would get, you know, that special dress for your daughter.
04:23But now, you know, it's closer to, I think last I checked, it was around 48th on the
04:29list, and obviously the world has changed.
04:32Give me some sense as to what the brand means today.
04:36You mentioned America's diverse working families.
04:40Is it a very different retail promise at this point?
04:45When I talk about, again, about relevance and the core reason I came here was to bring
04:49this brand back to relevance.
04:51And I think relevance has to do with a number of things.
04:53I think it has to do with the product assortment that consumers find when they come into our
04:56stores in the great brands and accessible fashion.
04:59I think it has to do with the shopping experience.
05:02And I think the irony, you mentioned some of our history, is that we were one of the
05:06first in catalog retail.
05:08We really had all that infrastructure for what then became e-commerce, but we'd fallen
05:12behind in that e-commerce shopping experience.
05:15And it was bringing that e-commerce shopping experience back to what consumers
05:18expected.
05:19And it was building all the capabilities so that we could do that.
05:23And so when I think about our customer and really what they're looking for, our customer
05:28is, as you said, America's diverse working families.
05:32And what that means is our customer is the school teachers who teach our kids.
05:36It is the construction workers who are building our homes and offices.
05:41And it is the medical workers who are taking care of us and of our families.
05:45And so it is that core of America looking at a place where they can find great fashion,
05:52again, at that affordable price and a shopping experience that treats them right.
05:56And that's really what was important.
05:58Let me reach into your background a bit.
06:00Those are people I would also associate with Walmart.
06:04Having worked at Walmart yourself, what's the difference?
06:07The difference is the experience and the feeling that when you come to JCPenney.
06:12So one of the things I think that people who haven't been in our stores lately don't
06:17realize is the importance of fashion to our customer.
06:20I talk about the daughter's communion dress or what they're wearing to a wedding or a
06:25family special occasion.
06:27Our customer is looking for what they're going to wear out.
06:29And they are generally more fashion forward and interested in that fashion component of
06:34the experience. And they're also looking for that moment where they can sort of have
06:40that special moment and treat themselves to that fashion.
06:43And I think the difference is this.
06:44I think when you walk into other retailers that might sell that and you put the dress
06:48that you're going to wear out on Saturday night in the cart with your milk and eggs,
06:53that doesn't feel like a special experience.
06:55When you can come to our store and you can actually go into the beauty department and
07:00you could get a mini service of, you know, a facial or something like that to take care
07:06of yourself. You could go into the salon and have your hair done for the evening.
07:11And then you could actually go with your friends and find that dress and try that on and
07:16be all set to go for whatever it might be, whether that's prom, whether that's homecoming,
07:20whether that's a wedding or whatever family event it might be.
07:24I think it's having that end to end experience.
07:26And I think there are a lot of different things in our store, like the salon, like beauty,
07:31like the photo studio, which a lot of families come in and they do all those things I just
07:35talked about. And then they go get a family portrait.
07:37And actually, a lot of people say, is that business still growing?
07:40And there is this whole nostalgia element of, yes, portrait and family family portraits
07:45are growing. But not but not a frozen pizza or a jug of milk.
07:50Right. That's exactly what you draw.
07:51You draw the limit there.
07:53Mark, let me let me go back.
07:55And I know we're talking about this iconic brand.
07:59Let's start with you as a leader to give me a sense of what attracted you to the retail
08:07space in the first place.
08:09I often say that my retail career started out when I was like six years old because
08:15my family has been in retail for a long, long time.
08:19My grandfather, when he came to the United States with his dad, his dad started a
08:24business and they moved to to Iowa.
08:29So they lived in in northern Iowa and they opened two department stores, one in
08:34northwest Iowa and one in southwest Minnesota.
08:37And they sold all kinds of goods for four families.
08:40They sold clothes.
08:42They sold things for the home.
08:43It was really kind of a predecessor of what a department store has become.
08:48And so when I was growing up, I think, you know, for many of us in retail, retail is a
08:5324-7 business and a 24-7 operation.
08:56His store was closed on Sundays, but he still worked on Sundays.
09:01And what he did on Sundays was he went and transferred inventory between the two stores.
09:04One of the stores had a bigger back room.
09:06It was kind of what would be the warehouse or what we'd now call the distribution
09:10center. And I if I wanted to spend time with him, I would go with him on Sunday
09:14morning to the store.
09:16He didn't have a big, fancy replenishment system that had a lot of technology and
09:22A.I. in it. He had a yellow pad.
09:24And he had a yellow pad.
09:26Exactly right. He had his yellow pad and it listed what was out of stock in the store
09:30in Spirit Lake, Iowa.
09:32We went to the store in Jackson, Minnesota.
09:33We went into the back room.
09:34We picked those orders.
09:36We loaded them into his car and we drove and put them on the shelves at the other
09:40store. And so I say I got into retail at that point when when I was six years old and
09:47it's kind of been in my blood ever since then.
09:50You know, it's been interesting to look at your career trajectory.
09:54One of the things you did at Levi Strauss was very much I think of you as the person
09:59who pushed them into the e-commerce revolution.
10:04What what did you learn from that?
10:06Because that was not a strength of J.C.
10:08Penny to your point when you came over.
10:10It sounds easy.
10:12Just go online.
10:13You know, you came in after the pandemic was full tilt.
10:16A lot of people were online.
10:18What's usually missing from the e-commerce experience that maybe the traditional
10:24retailer might not get?
10:26Yeah, I think if I think back about my experience, I think it was really balancing
10:30out both sides of the equation, because to really have an e-commerce business that
10:36works, there are a lot of fundamentals that need to be in place behind the scenes to
10:40make that work. Right.
10:41A great site experience, whether that's great search capabilities, great ability to
10:45get the items onto the site to show those items.
10:49And then you think about the fulfillment capabilities.
10:52There's a lot of base foundation that's there.
10:54And you could end up spending a lot of money investing on that.
10:58But then I also think it's about how do you invest in those other things that bring
11:03amazing experience to the customer as well?
11:07And so it's really balancing out those things that are kind of forward looking from a
11:12merchandising, from a marketing, from a personalization of getting people to the site
11:18with the foundation of running the site.
11:20So, you know, I think here at J.C.
11:22Penny, we focused a lot on merchandise and the assortment.
11:25We've done a lot through merchandise collaborations and things like that.
11:30When I talk about wearing the dress to homecoming, we just did a collaboration with
11:33Johnny Woo Jack that is all prom and we're going to do it again in the fall with
11:39Celebrate Dresses. But it's like, how do you balance that excitement with the
11:42foundation? Because the customer really needs both of those.
11:45You know, it's interesting as you're talking about communion dresses and homecoming, it
11:50feels very nostalgic.
11:51Like I'm I'm thinking about almost a 1950s retail experience with that might have been
11:56like. I mean, let's you know, the history of J.C.
11:59Penny, which we've alluded to earlier, when I first encountered it, it was very much of
12:04a discount driven brand.
12:06You know, it had lots of coupons.
12:09You went there with those coupons and you would get great deals.
12:12Then, you know, Ron Johnson came in from Apple and it had this period of trying to
12:17essentially replicate what Apple had done in its stores.
12:20We know that didn't work.
12:22Then I think it was Marvin Ellison, if I'm not mistaken.
12:25And he brought in more of that Sears mentality of appliances and such.
12:29So a lot of clutter you had to deal with.
12:31It reemerged as a private company owned by, you know, mall operators.
12:37So at at this juncture, you know, you've talked a little bit about it, but let's start
12:43with the fact of does it have to be big to be successful?
12:47I mean, there are a lot of diverse working families out there.
12:52J.C. Penny is now about half the size it was.
12:57Is getting bigger one of your objectives?
12:59Getting bigger for size itself is not necessarily one of our objectives, but I think
13:05growing profitably is our objective and, you know, delivering shareholder value and
13:12growing profitably there so that we are there for the long term of our customers.
13:16And and delivering that to them, I think, is really important.
13:20So I think it's really more about value than it is about size for size sake.
13:26What about in terms of the joy factor of your job?
13:30What do you think you've accomplished or what are you most proud of so far in the time
13:36that you've been at J.C. Penny?
13:37When I think about the things that I'm most proud of and I think when a lot of leaders
13:42when we when we talk about this, it really is about people and it really is about
13:47culture and it really is about purpose and belonging and those sorts of things.
13:52And so when I came into the company and you talked about it, there was a lot the
13:55company had been through and a lot of our teams and associates had been through.
13:59And so one of the first things that I did and I did with the team is to really sit down
14:03and say, what is our purpose?
14:07And I think we all know that people want to come to work and they want the things that
14:12they do at work to serve a purpose that's consistent with who they want to be in their
14:16lives. And so when we talked about that, we centered around something that that you and
14:20I have talked about already in this podcast, which is we are here to serve and
14:24celebrate with America's diverse working families.
14:27And I think when we really clarified that purpose and united the team around that
14:32purpose, it made it clear what we were doing here for our associates.
14:36That was actually really appealing to because our associates are America's diverse
14:40working families and they saw what we were doing for people like them.
14:42And so I think it is when we were able to unite among around that purpose.
14:48And then, you know, when I think about it from a, you know, more substantive what our
14:55customer can see. And I do think our customer sees the purpose come to life because
14:59when they come to our stores, they have a better experience and our store experience and
15:03the net promoter scores have gone way up.
15:05But our customer is also going to see the results of what is now our billion dollar
15:10self-funded reinvestment in the business.
15:12So it was also then getting the business to a point of stability.
15:17And I talked about the importance of delivering value and where the business was in a
15:21financial position to say, we're going to invest a billion dollars back into this
15:26business for the customer.
15:28And it's going to be self-funded from what we're generating from operations.
15:31Refamping the stores, Mark, or what are you doing with that billion dollars?
15:34It's really going when I when I break it down, that billion dollars is going to three
15:39areas and it will kind of happen.
15:42It started about a little bit over a year ago now, probably about a year and a half
15:46ago. So we're midway through.
15:48And the first big tranche of investment is really around the shopping experience.
15:54And so we've talked a bit about the shopping experience and the importance of
15:57shopping experience to customers.
15:58And that means both in-store and online.
16:01So by the end of this year, we will have remodeled about a third of our store fleet
16:07so that we can provide our customers with the shopping experience they want when they
16:10come in store. We've also back to the point we're talking about with e-commerce,
16:13we've added a lot of new features and things on the e-commerce shopping experience to
16:18make it easier for customers to find what they're looking for, to show them creative
16:22outfitting solutions and how to put things together and how to wear and adding the
16:26element of style and fashion to that.
16:28And then we've improved a lot about our fulfillment capabilities, too.
16:32So that's the first tranche is really shopping experience.
16:35The second tranche of investment is around making sure that we have the right
16:40assortment, the right merchandise for our customers in the right place.
16:45And so there's been a lot done around our assortment planning tools for merchants,
16:49around our inventory planning tools.
16:51And so around the way that we're really planning and buying merchandise and making
16:56sure that we have the right product in the right place to serve the customer.
16:58And a lot of that has been enabled through investments in technology and AI and
17:03things like that. And so shopping experience and making sure that we have the right
17:08assortment. And then the third thing has really been back in the brand.
17:12And because we talked some about the health of the brand, but it was really, really
17:16important to reinvigorate the brand.
17:19And again, we united around that purpose of serving and celebrating with America's
17:22diverse working families.
17:24That's really internal.
17:26We also then said, how do we make sure that our customers understand what are the
17:31unique reasons that they're going to come to J.C.
17:33Penny? And we talked about relevance.
17:35And it means because they have to have a relevant shopping experience of what's
17:38important to them. And when we looked at our customers, we said what's really
17:42important to them is actually belonging.
17:46And it's finding that place where they can find that accessible fashion that's going
17:52to help them belong in whatever moments they're going to have in their life.
17:56You've talked a little bit about the assortment.
17:58Can you unpack that a little more for us?
18:01What specifically do your customers look for?
18:05What kind of brands resonate?
18:07And is that changing the selection of what you have in your stores?
18:10Our customer is looking for a combination of great national brands, I think, in great
18:16fashion. And to some extent, you know, we have a set of customers that really does
18:21care about the brands. And, you know, you mentioned one of our largest brands is
18:26actually my former employee.
18:27So Levi's is one of our biggest brands.
18:30Athletic Apparel is one place where customers really care about brands.
18:34And we've seen as we've been in back to school, a surge in kids buying branded
18:39athletic apparel. So I think that's really, really important to them.
18:43And at the other point, they're looking for fashion moments and a fashion point of
18:46view. And I talked about the importance of our customer really understanding belonging
18:50and fitting in. And I have two quick stories that I can tell you about that.
18:54I, you know, first of all, I was in one of our stores.
18:59I think it was in Ohio.
19:00And the store team will regret probably that they let me be alone for a moment in the
19:05store. I was walking to the back of the store and a customer came up to me and the
19:11customer said, do you work here?
19:12And I had my name badge on.
19:13So I said, yes, I do.
19:14How can I help you? And he said, I'm going to a wedding this weekend.
19:17I've never worn a bow tie before.
19:20And so can you tell me how do I tie it and what do I wear it with?
19:25And it's those kinds of did, you know, in moments.
19:28Well, luckily, by that time, the store team had a panic that I was talking to a
19:33customer alone. And so the store manager came running up and he helped because I
19:38could have helped. But I think a much better service would come from the store
19:42manager. Another story about that is really for our customer.
19:46I met a customer who was going to her first job where she was working in an
19:51office and nobody in her family had had an office job.
19:57And what you wanted to know is what could she wear that would be appropriate for
20:01that? So that belonging to a large extent is really about fitting in as families, as
20:08our customers, as they go through different things and different experiences in
20:11their lives.
20:12There's a lot of words that we often use that can kind of be surrogates for
20:17something else. And let's start with the diverse, diverse and working.
20:21Obviously, I understand value.
20:23These are people who may be what, is it 50 to 100,000 household income?
20:29I don't know if you put a demographic target on that, but diversity to me implies
20:35that also you're investing in things like language.
20:39You're acknowledging perhaps, you know, ethnic differences in different parts of
20:44the country. I mean, what does it mean, diverse working families?
20:50I mean, it just feels a little bit.
20:52Slightly like a catch all phrase, can you unpack it a little bit, take it down a
20:57level as to what differentiates you from other retailers that are serving diverse
21:03working families like start with diversity, you started out talking a little bit
21:07about income. And yes, I mean, our customers, a $75,000 median household income.
21:13And I talked a little bit about professions and things like that.
21:17And when we did the research, what we saw is our customers are the top three
21:22professions are really school teachers, construction workers and medical workers.
21:28And so that is really the core of America.
21:34It's people who are who are doing the things that we and our families need to live our
21:39daily lives. And then when we looked at diversity in terms of
21:44ethnicity and things like that, we do see a
21:49disproportionate amount of customers who are people of color.
21:53Right. So we are disproportionately Hispanic.
21:56Our customer is disproportionately black.
21:59And so our customer is by nature of just who they are and the
22:04customer shopping us disproportionately diverse.
22:07And what we want to make sure is that when they come into the store, they're finding that
22:10welcoming environment and that welcoming environment is signs in their native language.
22:15So we have a big initiative going on right now to really make sure that we're serving our
22:19Hispanic customers in the way that they need to be served.
22:22And that means the signage in the stores.
22:24It means having associates who speak Spanish.
22:27It even means more of the things that I'll talk about that relate back to some of the
22:30investments we made, like making sure that we have the right size assortment in that
22:34store to serve that customer.
22:37And so one of the things we found when we went into our stores in a lot of our Hispanic
22:41stores, we were actually running out of the smaller sizes of things.
22:45And so it was then using those new tools that through the investment we put in place to
22:49make sure that we're getting the right sizes to the right stores based on the ethnicity
22:54of that customer.
22:55And the right colors.
22:56Is that because they wear clothes differently or is there a particular, is it just the
23:01kind of, I don't know, the nature of the demographics of that customer?
23:06I mean, why would they be going for smaller sizes?
23:10I think it's more about just, you know, different body sizes and things like that.
23:15And so to a large extent, it isn't as much about wearing it differently as about having
23:19shorter inseams and things like that.
23:21So in denim, they were looking for shorter inseams.
23:24I think we generally in men's, we're stopping at a 30 inch inseam and we've now put in,
23:30I think, down to 28 inch inseam.
23:32So we put in some shorter inseams in those stores.
23:35And so it's things like that that mostly relate to body type.
23:39I mean, the opposite of that is I was traveling stores a couple of weeks ago and I think
23:45it was in North Dakota.
23:47And that, you know, is not a highly Hispanic.
23:51It's actually a much more Caucasian kind of white, traditional customer.
23:56Exactly. And those stores actually needed larger sizes, again, just for just for things
24:03relating to body size and body shape and things like that.
24:06And so it's the reality of just getting the right parts of the assortment to the right
24:09place for the customer who's shopping there.
24:11You know, it's one thing you said that shocked me was construction workers being number
24:16two. First of all, that strikes me as here's my stereotyping into play.
24:21But as a largely male profession, and I think of J.C.
24:24Penney as a place where where women shop more than men.
24:30Can you help with construction workers?
24:32What what do they buy?
24:34That's your number two demographic of all the professions.
24:37It is. And I think, you know, obviously, if you look at the world right now, some of the
24:41trades are actually becoming much more diverse, much more diverse in terms of who's
24:45actually doing the work, too.
24:47And I think we're seeing in society right now a lot of those professions are becoming
24:52more popular. And so that customers come in our store and they may be coming in for two
24:56purposes. First of all, they could be coming into the work where they're going to wear
25:00to actually do their job, which could be work boots.
25:03It could be heavier work pants and things like that.
25:05Dickies or Carhartt or something like that.
25:07Yeah, exactly. That we sell in the store.
25:10But it could also be that they're a construction worker by day, but by night they're
25:15actually having a special moment with their family and they're coming in to buy whatever
25:19they want to wear for that special event.
25:22So we see people buying both what we call the everyday essentials, but we also see them
25:26buying. That person is going to come in and buy a suit because they have a wedding to go
25:30to because their sister's getting married the next weekend.
25:33And so I think it's it is actually that that breadth of needs that really serves our
25:40customer. Yeah. And I think for them it's finding it in a more affordable way.
25:44Yeah. No, I like that.
25:46I think the more you know your customer and obviously, you know, AI comes into play there
25:50too. The more you're you're better able to serve them.
25:53Mark, give us a sense of what's next.
25:56And let's again look at it through the lens of of you as a leader.
26:00I mean, you've got a fascinating background yourself.
26:03I know you were a pianist, you know, when you were in high school.
26:06I've always been fascinated and had a lot of respect for the fact that you and your wife,
26:10I believe, started a synagogue in Bentonville when you were with Walmart.
26:16I mean, give me a sense from a personal level as leader of this company what you want to
26:22achieve. To us, I think giving back to communities has always been a really, really,
26:27really important thing. And I think it ties back to probably like for a lot of us, the
26:32values that we learn earlier in life.
26:34So I talked about my grandfather in the store that he ran.
26:38And one of the things I learned from him is caring for the community and giving back to
26:43the community. And so his stores were actually in a farming community.
26:48And he was very aware of when the crops were coming in and if it was a good crop season or
26:52not, and if it was back to school time like it is right now.
26:56And, you know, his customers were coming in again, mostly farmers coming in to get clothes
27:00for their kids to back to school.
27:02He knew when he actually had to say, I'm going to extend some more credit this year
27:05because I know times are tough for the customer and I'm going to give back to the
27:08community to do that.
27:10And so I think a lot of it is about giving back.
27:13And I think that's one of the reasons when I think to our purpose, why the purpose was
27:19so important to me, because I do think that when we think about the families that we
27:24serve, there are a lot of others in business and in retail who are running away from
27:30that customer and saying they want a higher income customer or they want a luxury
27:34customer. And the reality is that our customer is actually one of the biggest segments
27:40out there. And it's a tough segment to serve, though, because for our customer, money
27:46is tough, times are tough.
27:48And like I said, they're making tradeoffs in everything they do in their life.
27:51And so what gives me purpose right now is actually giving them that moment in that
27:55place where they don't have to make those tradeoffs and then using what we're
27:59generating to really bring back one of our brand pillars of make it count.
28:03And when we think about make it count, which is our brand value proposition that I
28:07talked about, the important pillars of that are it's accessible fashion.
28:11It's a rewarding shopping experience.
28:14It's giving back to communities.
28:16And what we do to give back to communities is really, really in a large part, a
28:22local effort to our stores to give back to communities.
28:26But there are other things that we're doing right now, like we're giving a it's a
28:31thirty five percent off to school teachers because they're one of our biggest
28:34professions. And right now they're they're going to buy clothes for their back to
28:38school. And again, it's making tradeoffs for what they can do in that family.
28:42So that giving back to communities is very important.
28:44And then the fourth pillar of our brand is really came from James Cashpenny.
28:48Our founder is really the golden rule, which is serving others like we want to be
28:51served. And so I think what was really important to me is the values and the
28:56purpose and the giving back to community, which is really consistent and important
29:00to who I am and who my family is and my view of the world.
29:05Great. It's I look forward to what's next.
29:08Is there anything around the corner that even hints of things to come that you'd
29:13like to put on our radar to watch for?
29:15As we think about the transformation that we're in, I talked about a lot of the
29:18things that we've done in terms of store remodels and technology and the
29:23customer shopping experience.
29:26And and really the next phase, we rolled out the rewards program in the spring.
29:30But the next phase is continuing to really reinvigorate the brand.
29:34And as we look to holiday again, we think this holiday value, as it has been through
29:38back to school, that has been for a period of time, value is so important to the
29:42customer and really even more important.
29:44And so you are going to see us do some exciting things with the brand during the
29:48holiday season in terms of bringing value back into customers and
29:53offering some deals and some things that really bring people to
29:57understand the things that only JCPenney can do.
30:00And I think there are so many things that only this brand can do.
30:03And I'm just excited to continue rolling those out and continue to serve our
30:06customer.
30:07Well, if there's one thing that unites us, it's that we all love a good holiday.
30:11So that's right. Thanks very much for joining us, Mark.
30:14Yep. It was great to chat with you.
30:16Thanks, Diane. Great.